thepowerofnicki
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My favourite character Paige! Yet I am a firm fan of the Original Power of Three
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Post by thepowerofnicki on Nov 28, 2012 20:26:00 GMT -5
I was sitting and thinking about how Charmed would have been like if Connie stayed as Executive Producer and if Brad Kern became the Executive Consultant for the rest of the series instead.
Keep in mind that Kern was the show runner for the first two seasons and Burge as a Executive Producer. Now if Connie had stayed as Executive Producer and became the show runner as well this would give her almost complete control and what do you think she would have turned the show into?
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Nov 29, 2012 12:59:19 GMT -5
It's hard to say for sure, especially because like Kern, she would've had to do what The WB wanted her to do. But had they tried to kill her show the way they killed Kern's, I don't think she would've let them.
I know the sisterhood would've always been more important than individuality (even if Piper would've kept grumbling about her need for a normal life), and that the three sisters always would've starred rather than their men or their children. They would always believe that the wrong things done for the right reason is still wrong - just because something was funny wouldn't make it okay.
I know she didn't think there was such a thing as halves, so Cole would've always been a full demon and Paige (if she became part of the show...) would've always been a full witch, as would any of Piper and Leo's children.
I know that Piper would've always acted as the Middle Sister, Phoebe as the Baby and Paige (if she became part of the show...) would've always acted as the Only Child.
I'm pretty certain that "the Elders" would always be known as THEY and that we never would've seen their faces. I'm also pretty certain that had the Source existed (I don't know if he existed in her vision of the Charmedverse or not), we never would've seen *his* face.
I'm pretty sure that Wyatt would've been Prudence Melinda (or Melinda if Shannen wasn't fired) and would not have been Twice Blessed or have whitelighter powers - she's probably have a single Warren power and that would be it.
Speaking of, although I don't know for sure, I do believe that Prue never would've died and Paige never would've existed. I'm also pretty sure that when Shannen Doherty would want to leave after five seasons because she was bored and her contract was up, that Connie would've given her show the ending it deserved rather than let it die a slow death like Kern did.
Whether she would've made it dark like Season Four or light like Season Five, I don't know. Also whether she would do story arcs rather than "Demon of the Week", I don't know.
Whether all of this would've made Charmed "better" depends upon each fan's interpretation of that word.
Those who know me know what I would think...
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Dec 1, 2012 2:53:27 GMT -5
Judging by how she handled Season 2, I think Burge would have kept that series stuck in the same rut. I don't think she would have allowed it to really develop. And I suspect she would have been even worse about the show's one-dimensional morality than Kern proved to be. She did a good job in handling the first season. But I was not impressed at how she handled Season 2.
I don't know if that would have been a good thing. To me, that sounds as if Burge would have allowed the sisters to remain in some one-note characterization, instead of allowing them to develop individually. Mind you, Kern handled their characterization badly. But I don't think Burge could have done better.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Dec 1, 2012 9:43:15 GMT -5
I'll agree. Which probably means it would've only lasted three seasons.
PERFECT!
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Post by SEERofCHAOS on Dec 2, 2012 1:24:47 GMT -5
I agree with Ljones about this. I know Charmed is about family, but I'd like them to be able to develop without the need of the sisters for them to develop. I didn't want the show to be too reliant on that aspect, but not totally abandon it of course.
Also Es, where did you hear that Connie didn't believe in halves?
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Dec 2, 2012 8:56:32 GMT -5
That's why I'd be happy if it ended after three seasons. If they wanted something like that, it would've been perfect for the sequel.
I remember reading that after I'd seen Season Five but before Season Six, but, sorry, that was too long ago - I don't remember when or where, but it was before I came here, and it was an interview with Connie. More likely than not it was thewb.com, since that's where I got most of my Charmed info (and also got the link to this site), but I won't swear to it.
But it's after reading that that I also started hating the idea of halves (especially the fact that the sisters aren't 1/64th witch because so many of their male ancestors weren't witches, so in the same way, their kids would be pure witch no matter what their father was), while I was okay with it when I first watched those seasons.
I also remember that she said that it was that battle - whether Cole should be full-demon or half-demon - that ended up with Brad Kern fully in charge and Connie just consultant.
It's also when I first found out that of the three sisters, Phoebe was based on Connie - I always thought it was Prue.
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thepowerofnicki
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My favourite character Paige! Yet I am a firm fan of the Original Power of Three
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Post by thepowerofnicki on Dec 2, 2012 23:02:46 GMT -5
Interesting, but to be fair we cannot blame season two's lack of direction solely on Connie, Brad Kern was also there and the show runner meaning he headed everything. Season two had some great stand alone episodes but lacked a main focus. I always wished they had the four horseman of the apocalypse as the big bad and tied it in with Y2K and the year 2000 . The fact that she wanted a full demon to fall in love I think proved that she wanted a bit more character depth. I felt that Connie was good with the small things like stand alone episodes and Kern could come up with the big ideas he just executed them horribly. Watching the documentary the Women of Charmed they talked about how they realized Charmed needed to expand it's mythology and finally getting to elaborate on the Source etc after hinting about it for 2 years.
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Dec 3, 2012 18:53:42 GMT -5
I'm not surprised. But I find it odd that the direction of the show really changed after Burge left.
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Post by Astral Echo on Dec 4, 2012 7:58:09 GMT -5
I thought it was the other way around for the first two seasons? Connie was the creator and showrunner, Kern was an executive producer.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Dec 4, 2012 8:51:59 GMT -5
That's also what I thought. I'm not quite sure what the difference between a showrunner and an executive producer is, but I always thought that Connie was in control during the first two seasons with Kern just helping her because she had little experience in being the showrunner for a major television show. ETA: I dragged out my "The Book of Three" and found a couple of interviews that I'm going to quote - which shows that we were wrong, Astral. Unfortunately there's no conversations with Connie, so this isn't where I got my above info from (I thought maybe it was), but first here's part of the conversation with Aaron Spelling and E. Duke Vincent: BO3: How did the idea for Charmed first come about?
AS: How did we start Charmed?...uh, that was five years ago...
EDV: Yes, that was five years ago...the initial idea came from a gal by the name of Connie Burge. She came to us with the idea of doing a story about three sisters who happened to be witches-not about three witches who happened to be sisters. That was a very, very important distinction for all of us because we never believed that a show that did not have that element of companionship and love between the three girls would work. We did a presentation. The network loved the show and picked it up and we went roaring into the first year. Brad Kern was hired as our showrunner at that time. He is still with the show and is still doing a brilliant job. Note: The Book of Three only goes through the first five seasons (part of why I got it - no way I'll get The Book of Three, Part 2 which goes through the last three seasons - although since they talk about the show starting five years previous, I'm guessing this interview happened after the first four seasons... Speaking of Kern, here's part of their conversation with him: BO3: Let's start at the beginning. How did you get involved with the series?
BK: Connie Burge created the show and Aaron Spelling had sold it as a presentation and it got picked up to series based on the presentation. Connie had never done a television show before, so Aaron and Duke were looking for a showrunner to come in and help turn the presentation into a pilot and the pilot into a series. I was the showrunner and executive producer on New York Undercover and that show had just been canceled, so I interviewed for Charmed. There's a lot more but nothing more about how or why Connie was suddenly out and Kern was in, in fact, the book makes it sound like Kern was always in charge and that all Connie did was come up with the idea. But this should answer our question regarding who was the original showrunner and what the showrunner did.
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Post by Astral Echo on Dec 4, 2012 11:43:58 GMT -5
Fair enough. Sounds a lot like Connie was the creative one though and Kern was just a pen pusher and box ticker.
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Post by SEERofCHAOS on Dec 5, 2012 0:05:35 GMT -5
That's also what I thought. I'm not quite sure what the difference between a showrunner and an executive producer is, but I always thought that Connie was in control during the first two seasons with Kern just helping her because she had little experience in being the showrunner for a major television show. An executive producer is in charge of most of the business part of running a show. They usually serve as financier for a project. I think Brad Kern was hired for that reason. However, in television, executive producers can also serve as show runners and take part in writing a show, which is what Brad apparently became later into the show's run.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Dec 5, 2012 20:02:56 GMT -5
Actually Kern wrote quite a few of the earlier episodes, so he had that power fairly early. He talks about that next in that interview.
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thepowerofnicki
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My favourite character Paige! Yet I am a firm fan of the Original Power of Three
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Post by thepowerofnicki on Dec 6, 2012 20:14:50 GMT -5
Showrunners usually are like the "head" Executive Producers. They have the final say over the script. They also are in charge of the day to day operations and business aspects of the show.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2013 18:47:28 GMT -5
great question OP. Its hard to say really. I personally feel both Brad and Constance were a perfect balance for the show. Both had great ideas but needed the other to implement it properly. Connie's vision for sure was becoming stale. I'm speaking of season 2 of course. Her episodic structuring was falling flat. Yes brad had more input that year, but that was a good thing. He had a better characterization for Prue, while Connie wanted Prue to be the hard shelled B* she was in season 1. Even Shannon said portraying Prue that way was exhausting. He made her character likable IMO. Also, he gave Leo and Piper's relationship far more depth than Connie did. From my understanding, Leo was supposed to be gone some point and time after season 1. This is confirmed by Holly who said she fought to keep Brian on the show. Now when brad took over and Connie was dethroned to Executive Consultant thats when Charmed was at its peak. I feel they both worked together to make the show better even though the way she wanted the show structured had been greatly altered. I'm glad it was. Season 3 and 4 are fantastic seasons and way better than season 1 and 2. Now lets remove 1 person out of the equation. Connie was gone after season 4. It was clear that Brad was a huge novice exec producer and clearly needed the aid of Connie Burge. When we see season 2 and how it suffers midway into stales ville its clear Connie needed the aid of Brad. They are like the Ying Yang of Charmed in my eyes. So if Connie was executive producer and Brad executive consultant I think the show would've been amazing.
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Esmeralda
Charmed
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Post by Esmeralda on Jul 8, 2013 14:25:01 GMT -5
This is what I've heard from most fans, that Seasons 3 & 4 - Connie's ideas with Brad's direction - is when Charmed was at its best. I disagree because I liked it best in S1 & S2 - I didn't like the characters morally grey as they became in Season 3, so soon after Morality Bites when they learned that the wrong thing done for the right reason was still the wrong thing and they were supposed to protect the innocent, not punish the guilty - I often wish my favorite episode "Morality Bites" had never been aired, because I think I would've enjoyed the rest of the series more without it - but I know I'm an exception to most rules, so I do think you've nailed this on the head.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2013 14:35:26 GMT -5
Don't mean to sway off topic but "Morality Bites" is the black sheep of the series and heres why. I think a lot of Charmed fans took that 1 episode way to literal. They saw that future and expected those things to happen. Like Piper having a daughter. This 1 episode added to much complexity and standards; standards that the show never kept in tact. "Hyde School Reunion" says hello.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Jul 8, 2013 15:48:15 GMT -5
Actually it's the other way around. The SHOW kept using Morality Bites to show why Piper and Leo would get together and why they would have a daughter, hence the reason why it was a surpise when she had two sons, not to mention most fans (even Paul Ruditis who wrote the comics) thinking the little girl at the end with Wyatt and Chris was named Melinda, when Piper made it clear that had Wyatt been a girl, her name would've been Prudence.
What the show and fans keep forgetting is that that episode showed the bigger reason why Piper and Leo SHOULDN'T have gotten together - they got divorced because Piper and Leo couldn't do their jobs, and that's exactly what happened - Pper was never truly happy as Leo's wife until she turned him into her own little errand boy, and Good lost one of their biggest agents of Good - an angel named Leo.
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Jul 12, 2013 22:00:26 GMT -5
I was sitting and thinking about how Charmed would have been like if Connie stayed as Executive Producer and if Brad Kern became the Executive Consultant for the rest of the series instead. Keep in mind that Kern was the show runner for the first two seasons and Burge as a Executive Producer. Now if Connie had stayed as Executive Producer and became the show runner as well this would give her almost complete control and what do you think she would have turned the show into? I hate to say this but judging from some of the mistakes from Season One, and from Season Two, I suspect that "CHARMED" would not have improved much. I also suspect that Shannen Doherty would have clashed with Burge, but for different reasons.
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Post by Chrisaholic on Jul 13, 2013 11:20:57 GMT -5
I agree. The magazine I own, which I consult here and there for this show, also said that if the changes had not occur in S2 and following, the show would have run in a same way still. I don't remember the exact words but in general, it was said this way. Whether with Connie Burge or Brad Kern as showrunner.
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