cyma
Witch
Waiting
Posts: 1,442
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Post by cyma on Apr 21, 2014 2:11:45 GMT -5
Are the Elders always responsible for witches' spells or magic backfiring? Or not working they way it was supposed too? They made sure the sisters arrived on the day of Phoebe's execution in the future rather than before in Morality Bites episode. And I vaguely recall an episode where winning lottery tickets numbers were erased.
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Post by Astral Vision on Apr 21, 2014 3:39:40 GMT -5
I don't think either example counts as a backfire. In the MB episode, the spell was supposed to work like that since the Elders had set it up to work like that; and in the episode with the lottery ticket, the numbers were erased due to personal gain consequences, not a backfire.
In my opinion, a backfired spell would be something like when Piper and Phoebe cast the love spell and the backfire is that the men become obsessed, or like when Piper put a charm on Doug (the love-sick clumsy waiter at Quake in season one) and he became really obnoxous. Even though in their respective episodes, these were classed as personal gain consequences, I think these fit well under the "backfire" category.
As to whether the Elders are responsible... It's hard to say. In seasons two and three, when we start to learn more about "Leo's bosses", it is made out to be that the Elders are responsible for witches' powers and spells (I don't have a direct reference to prove this right now...). In later episodes, though, it seems like the Elders have little to no control other than the ability to take away powers, but even then that's a Tribunal made out of an Elder and a demon.
I wouldn't think that the Elders are responsible for spell backfire, per se. I think spells backfiring comes under the Charmed clause of "everything happens for a reason".
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Post by Chrisaholic on Apr 21, 2014 6:27:25 GMT -5
I think a spell only backfires when it's counted as a personal gain. Just like with the lottery ticket at the beginning. There were erased, because at first she wanted the money for herself, yet with giving it away, all was okay, again.
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cyma
Witch
Waiting
Posts: 1,442
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Post by cyma on Apr 21, 2014 7:22:31 GMT -5
Very interesting replies. Got me thinking more and I guess I’m gonna go with four categories as to why spells backfire or not work as they’re supposed too:
1) Meddling of the Elders or perhaps as you mentioned Astral Vision, the spell already set-up like that as seen in Morality Bites.
2) Meddling of the Source/Cole as seen in Marry-Go-Round, when Paige’s glamoring spell backfired and Phoebe goes invisible.
3) Everything happens for a reason. In Apocalypse Not, if the spell hadn’t backfired, then world would’ve ended seeing the sisters didn’t even know who the Horsemen were.
4) Magic has a mind of its own as seen in Styx Feet Under and Vaya Con Leos, even if meant to die, the spell interfered for a bit.
I think all the reasons could fall into all of the categories as well. Still confused about the personal gain thing, seeing the bad guys using magic for their own purposes do not face any wacky consequences. Only the Charmed Ones do. Even Wyatt doesn’t. Whatever Wyatt wants, he just blinks and voila it’s there. Charmed Ones do it using a spell, it mostly goes wrong. So why is that I wonder?
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?" Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,903
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Post by Esmeralda on Apr 21, 2014 7:46:20 GMT -5
There's a huge difference in Connie Burge's "THEY" (elder whitelighters who were Leo's boss and were never called anything but THEY during S1-2) and Brad Kern's Elders (S3-8) It did appear that THEY were a lot more in control of what happened while the Elders were simply stupid and truly set up to make the Charmed Ones' (especially Piper's) life miserable rather than truly doing what was for the greatest good, as happened with THEY, even if Piper thought otherwise.
But I don't think THEY were behind any backfires - that was just the personal gain consequences of the spell, which would've happened if THEY were around or not.
I just wish the producers had decided what the definition of "personal gain" and "personal gain consequences" were during S1 (even during that season, it was *very* inconsistent, like in the SECOND episode, "I've Got You Under My Skin", our first sight of Prue being her in bed with Andy, and then her using her power to get rid of Andy’s time clock, and later using it on the elevator, while later berating Phoebe for using her powers to help a little old couple (and herself.. when Prue could already control her powers much better than Phoebe could, who at that point just got premonitions when she got them, no matter if she was touching something or not. I *do* think that THEY sent Phoebe premonitions - I think she got them by touching stuff once the Elders took over, since as Piper said, they were pretty much useless, while THEY weren't.
So if magic for personal gain were used inconsistently in the *second* episode, why would be surprised that it's used inconsistently for the rest of the series?
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Post by CharmedBOSthanh on Apr 23, 2014 4:34:10 GMT -5
The lust spell that Prue spoke of that Phoebe and Piper cast was a total classic even poor Kit had all those male cats after it. And the girls had all the flowers from guys they didn't even know. [/font]
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