Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?" Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,903
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Post by Esmeralda on Nov 1, 2015 16:33:08 GMT -5
Now THAT would've been much more interesting, especially as Chris would be born expected to be 'the Future of All Evil' and Wyatt as 'His Royal Highness, the Twice-Blessed King Wyatt, Master of Excalibur' but in actual fact the reverse would be true and Chris would come back and use his 'Evil' powers to stop Wyatt enacting his 'Utopia'. Such a storyline would reinforce the notion that one is Good/Evil by choice, not by birthright. It would be such an interesting dichotomy. I would have loved, loved this! Most supernatural drama makes it a point that its the choices that make a person good or evil and theres a lot of murk between. Piper says it to Tyler, even, in the Firestarter episode. Charmed was a bit odd in 'inherently evil' powers, especially haveing to do with fire. Fire is dangerous and hurts people very easily, but it also shapes our tools and gives us warmth. Its just an element, like the others. More to the topic, IMO a son of Phoebe and Cole would work very hard at trying to subvert the expectations thrown in his direction. His family, and his mother especially, would be very ready and quick to help him and guide him and keep him on that straight and narrow, helping him to grow to be responsible with his powers. In the meantime, there's the prophecized child, the future King, blessed by forces of supposedly great good. Who's watching him? I can see it being taken for granted that he would grow to be a good person, that he wouldn't see the corruption going on around him and decide to flip the chessboard. Incidents of him misusing his power as a small child get waved off as childish impishness while the same thing with Chris might get looked at more closely. And then it keeps happening, and perhaps there's some talkings-to, and he nods along and makes promises while keeping his own council. Then eventually, ultimately he's too strong for any of them. And then its too late. Oh, man, I would've loved that! But I think I love "Carry On, My Wayward Son" even more. Wyatt is never the king, never anything but Piper and Leo's baby. And they (and the audience) don't find out that Chris is indeed the Phoetus until the very end - with Cole the first to find out when Chris wants Cole to join him in killing Phoebe...
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Post by Alana on Jun 18, 2017 17:14:52 GMT -5
I wonder whether he would have been a half-demon or a full demon. Would he have had a soul?
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ljones
Whitelighter
Posts: 4,123
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Post by ljones on Jun 18, 2017 17:33:06 GMT -5
I think they found it easier to accept once it was made clear that the baby wasn't really Phoebe and Cole's, but the Source's and the Seer's. Oh my God. The baby was conceived via Phoebe's eggs and Cole's sperm. All the Seer did was make a potion or tonic that would increase the power of Phoebe's unborn son and make her evil. All the Source did was use his spirit to take control of Cole's body. Of course the baby would have possessed a soul. All sentient beings do.
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Post by Alana on Jun 18, 2017 18:01:09 GMT -5
Of course the baby would have possessed a soul. All sentient beings do. In the Charmed Universe demons don't have a soul, Cole had one becaise he was half-human. What if Cole had a child from a demoness, who whould have been that child? A three-quarter-demon?
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Post by sol on Jun 18, 2017 23:17:40 GMT -5
A demon, only a demon
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?" Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,903
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Post by Esmeralda on Jun 19, 2017 5:19:21 GMT -5
No, just a mortal. Just like Cole should've been. Just like Paige, Wyatt and Chris should've inherited no angelic powers from their non-living father, Cole and the Phoetus should've inherited no demonic powers from their non-living parent. Their DNAs are dead.
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Post by adzpower on Jun 19, 2017 14:17:04 GMT -5
The child should be a witch, as he would have been born of one of The Charmed Ones. But maybe an evil witch? Charmed makes it so black and white. But this child should be morally grey. He'd have the powers of a standard Warren witch. As all descendants of Melinda Warren do? Though I am aware there is a bit of continuity issue there but its Charmed, when isn't there?
The Seer made the child evil with her potion, I think the exact wording was "poisoning the baby with evil"? That leads me to believe that had the child not been fed this tonic, he probably would have taken after Phoebe and been good.
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Post by Alana on Jun 19, 2017 15:18:31 GMT -5
Why should he have been a mortal or a witch? Demons are alive and have their own poweres. Even if we consider all demons and warlocks and witches as humans with some slight mutations than, still, the baby could have inherited at least some of them.
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Post by sol on Jun 20, 2017 0:03:17 GMT -5
No, just a mortal. Just like Cole should've been. Just like Paige, Wyatt and Chris should've inherited no angelic powers from their non-living father, Cole and the Phoetus should've inherited no demonic powers from their non-living parent. Their DNAs are dead. I didn't explain myself clearly If Cole had a child with a demoness, as Alana asked, this child'ld be a demon Phoebe and Cole's child'ld be a human, of course, inable to turn into something like Belthazor,even if he got some Cole's power Leo is alive: whitelighters are humans revived as Lazarus in the New Testament It's more difficult to kill them because of their orbing power but it's possible, see Natalie or Leo himself in Secret and Guys How could die a dead person? Wyatt and Chris have no angelic powers - the only characters named angels are Angel of Destiny and Death - but whitelighter powers, orbing and, only Wyatt, healing Usefull powers but no unique powers: Christy was able to do without orbing, she created potions and the power of heal is a power that also some normal person can have Leo is Piper's angel, she often said it but in Charmed whitelighters aren't angels and, as Supernatural follower, I can say I'm happy of it, because in Supernatural they destroyed every nice concept of angels
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Post by Alana on Jun 20, 2017 22:51:37 GMT -5
No, just a mortal. Just like Cole should've been. Just like Paige, Wyatt and Chris should've inherited no angelic powers from their non-living father, Cole and the Phoetus should've inherited no demonic powers from their non-living parent. Their DNAs are dead. I didn't explain myself clearly If Cole had a child with a demoness, as Alana asked, this child'ld be a demon Phoebe and Cole's child'ld be a human, of course, inable to turn into something like Belthazor,even if he got some Cole's power Leo is alive: whitelighters are humans revived as Lazarus in the New Testament It's more difficult to kill them because of their orbing power but it's possible, see Natalie or Leo himself in Secret and Guys How could die a dead person? Wyatt and Chris have no angelic powers - the only characters named angels are Angel of Destiny and Death - but whitelighter powers, orbing and, only Wyatt, healing Usefull powers but no unique powers: Christy was able to do without orbing, she created potions and the power of heal is a power that also some normal person can have Leo is Piper's angel, she often said it but in Charmed whitelighters aren't angels and, as Supernatural follower, I can say I'm happy of it, because in Supernatural they destroyed every nice concept of angels All angels and demons in the show are technically alive but "dead" becase they were created as resurrected humans. They have blood, can feel pain and so on. Cole's child would have been a human with some really powerful demonic powers. But i guess he would have been called a half'demon anyway.
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Post by sol on Jun 21, 2017 1:15:32 GMT -5
Nobody told that demons are humans resurrected, demons are demons, different species, with different peculiarity
About angels, I saw two Aangels of Destiny and an Angel of Death, very different from Christian angels and whitelighters are not angels but humans resurrected fit to take care of witches If they are resurected, they are alive
I think that many things about Charmed are from fans, not from writers, as that Twice Blessed Child that was only named in the quatrain, turned in a kind of title by fanfic writers, or hybrid idea In Chris Crossed, Chris told "Part witch, part Whitelighter. Just like you, Paige" meaning he was a witch - so he can't be freezed - with the whitelighter power to orb,as Paige
I can't understand how it happened, it turned in half witch/half whitelighter, giving rise to characters who were half demon /half Darklighter, half human/half Avatar, half human/half nymph half Cuupid/half fairy plus the non sense half Elder - the Elders are only the boss of the Whitelighter, as I told half general -
But these are fanfic ideas, not canon
Canon is that only Paige, Wyatt and Chris have whitelighter - not angelic - powers and that the Darklighters try to create a kind with their powers, having children with women
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Post by Alana on Jun 21, 2017 3:33:57 GMT -5
even if they are differeent they stil could breed with humans. Closely related species usually can breed with each other.
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Ruth Marie
Whitelighter
Prue Seasons "What If...?" Fan Fic Winner
Posts: 4,291
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Post by Ruth Marie on Jun 21, 2017 3:49:52 GMT -5
Demons are demons, and no way a related species to humans. We have had plenty of demons on Charmed who look human and who look like demons. Also, demons looking like a human makes sense for when they want to appear out in the open in San Francisco. But no way do I believe they are related to humans at all. But you can make a case for Cole being a hybrid I suppose.
The more I read threads talking about hybrids, demons and the way the show established its species. The more, I am really starting to see things from a whole new prospective.
But something I was just wondering now from all this conversation. Who are Darklighters bosses? If the Elders serve Whitelighters. Is the Source just the boss of Darklighters then?
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Post by sol on Jun 22, 2017 0:27:26 GMT -5
And who are the Darklighters? Bad men which task is to protect warlocks? I cannot think it
In the The Courtship of Wyatt's Father, demos and Darklighters work together and it's clear is an alliance, they aren't linked by a chain of command It's clear also that the Darklighters are able to have children from women and I ask: the result of this union is an hybrid we never saw in Charmed or is the way the Darklighters reproduce?
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Post by BriannaWarren2.0 on Jan 25, 2021 7:07:25 GMT -5
I actually have an alternate universe where Phoebe's child with Cole was actually a girl who then survived and was raised by the same demons who kidnapped Christy but was kept protected by the Triad in order to make her kill her the Source and eventually kill her mother and aunts if Christy and Billie failed.
I would have preferred if Phoebe's child was alive and she ended up being a single mother throughout the fifth season and the Crone was out for Phoebe's child since she could get a higher status being the one who mothered the new source of the Underworld, no matter what gender the child is, I would have rather she had a girl with Cole.
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Post by Elle Em on Jan 25, 2021 8:19:10 GMT -5
It would be cool if Phoebe had a girl when we were expecting a boy, just as Piper had a boy when we were expecting Melinda. I also like the idea of her being a single mother. It would knock her off her high horse a bit.
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Post by BriannaWarren2.0 on Jan 25, 2021 8:32:48 GMT -5
It would be cool if Phoebe had a girl when we were expecting a boy, just as Piper had a boy when we were expecting Melinda. I also like the idea of her being a single mother. It would knock her off her high horse a bit. Thank you, I think the same thing, with Phoebe having to be knocked down back to reality. I just think the death of her child was an easy out for Phoebe so she could go on and have the perfect family after she received that vision, it would have been cool to see her being a working mother and how she would have kept her baby save from evil also how would she date, maybe she starts working from home. I think she would have given her child her maiden last name, since it is a symbol of good, I also believe that she would have left the name Prudence for Piper since their relationship was stronger than Prue's and Phoebe's, maybe she would have been the one to break tradition, which I could totally see Phoebe doing.
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Post by Too Much Coffee on Jan 25, 2021 18:48:18 GMT -5
It would be cool if Phoebe had a girl when we were expecting a boy, just as Piper had a boy when we were expecting Melinda. I also like the idea of her being a single mother. It would knock her off her high horse a bit. I'd have loved that. I really wished that is what the set up for S5 was with all three sisters switching stories: *Phoebe pregnant with a daughter and quitting her job as a social worker *Paige the one being more successful in her job and supporting the household not quitting it *Piper being the aunt wanting to spoil her niece and taking Phoebe's story where she was so into being an aunt. I love the idea of Piper not having any children for a while longer, that really should have been her endgame story with Leo in the final season. *Cole dead and left behind in Season 5. Wouldn't that have made season 5 so much better. If this set-up took us to the end of Season 5, I really do wonder, if they'd have been more willing to let go of Brian, when Leo becomes an Elder he'd leave Piper behind without a son, going into Season 6. I do think he'd come back, but without Wyatt, no reason for him to be hanging around the house, so he'd be gone until near the end of season 6. Maybe they'd have gotten creative to get around Holly's pregnancy, which only made Piper pregnant in the last six episodes. I suspect in this set-up they'd still make Chris be Piper and Leo's son but he'd be Phoebe's daughters cousin, so they are not brothers but cousins feuding in the future. I'd prefer them going with the original arc of Chris as the big bad. All these ideas we are coming up with would make a great fanfic set-up for the end of season 4/season 5.
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Post by BriannaWarren2.0 on Jan 25, 2021 19:06:54 GMT -5
It would be cool if Phoebe had a girl when we were expecting a boy, just as Piper had a boy when we were expecting Melinda. I also like the idea of her being a single mother. It would knock her off her high horse a bit. I'd have loved that. I really wished that is what the set up for S5 was with all three sisters switching stories: *Phoebe pregnant with a daughter and quitting her job as a social worker *Paige the one being more successful in her job and supporting the household not quitting it *Piper being the aunt wanting to spoil her niece and taking Phoebe's story where she was so into being an aunt. I love the idea of Piper not having any children for a while longer, that really should have been her endgame story with Leo in the final season. *Cole dead and left behind in Season 5. Wouldn't that have made season 5 so much better. If this set-up took us to the end of Season 5, I really do wonder, if they'd have been more willing to let go of Brian, when Leo becomes an Elder he'd leave Piper behind without a son, going into Season 6. I do think he'd come back, but without Wyatt, no reason for him to be hanging around the house, so he'd be gone until near the end of season 6. Maybe they'd have gotten creative to get around Holly's pregnancy, which only made Piper pregnant in the last six episodes. I suspect in this set-up they'd still make Chris be Piper and Leo's son but he'd be Phoebe's daughters cousin, so they are not brothers but cousins feuding in the future. I'd prefer them going with the original arc of Chris as the big bad. All these ideas we are coming up with would make a great fanfic set-up for the end of season 4/season 5. I would believe Phoebe would want to be a working mother however she decides to take a year off after her daughter is born so she can protect her from evil, which is what Season 5 would entail. She morns the loss of Cole while being grateful for Balthazar's vanquish, she still honours him, the human him, the him she fell in love with while dealing with the decision to either bind or keep her daughters powers with choosing the latter, she wants to teach her daughter how to control her emotions and to make smart decisions while having her powers. I would love to see Grams and Patty's reaction to Phoebe having a demonic child and whether all not Grams would preform the Wiccaning, with them ultimately accepting the fact that there is going to be a demon in the Warren line.
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Post by Astral Echo on Jan 25, 2021 21:52:09 GMT -5
Keep the baby. Have Womb Raider play out very much same but the baby teleports itself back into Phoebe's womb. The main aim of the episode is for the sisters to learn how Cole took in the Hollow to save them but that the Seer had it rigged so that he would become the Source. Explain how despite Cole's best efforts to fight against it, and he did, the Source was possessing his body - it wasn't a choice.
This would allow in Witch Way Now for Phoebe to forgive to Cole and help him move on. Perhaps the sisters summon Cole's father to accompany him as he passes over? The episode ends not with Piper's pregnancy but with the AoD revealing a prophecy about Phoebe's baby.
In Season Five, Phoebe gives birth and learns how to juggle being a working mother, a Charmed One and how to protect her baby from evil (even though no threats ever really materialise). Piper and Leo could have trouble conceiving causing Piper to fuss over her niece and sending her on a one woman mission to vanquish every demon in the Underworld. Paige would continue on as a whitelighter, being the one who leads the sisters to innocents through her work and because she invests herself into the witch community.
The season would end with a Zankou level threat. But this time he does take on the power of the Nexus and takes out a whole host of Elders and leaves the sisters to take refuge in Cole's old apartment (that was left to Phoebe but she hadn't been living in). Piper's child from the future (in whatever guise you like) would come back in time with the solution. Part of which is that the Power of Three has been weakened because the sisters strayed form their path. They became so wrapped up in themselves (and in Phoebe's case, her baby), they damaged the bond between them. Except just like when the sisters have travelled back in time before, this child would have no powers.
Season Six would have Phoebe's child ending up in more and more sticky situations. We learn the truth about Piper's child who says they came back to save the future by saving the past. They claim Phoebe's child grows up to be everything they feared. Except when Piper eventually gives birth, her future child steals their younger selves powers and goes after Phoebe's child herself only to be stopped by...Phoebe's child from the future. We then learn that everything we thought we knew was a lie. The product of the Source and his Queen was actually a paragon of good while the child of a Charmed One and an Elder turned out to worse than the Source himself.
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