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Post by jdpm1991 on Feb 8, 2016 21:53:10 GMT -5
In "Something Wicked This Way Goes", Zankou sees use in Phoebe's premonition power but The Source didn't. Why? Was it because he already had The Seer?
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Post by yinsoul on Feb 8, 2016 22:52:57 GMT -5
Because he was dumb, and thought her powers were weak because they weren't shiny enough. This is even though he relied on a couple Seers, and it was apparently an important and prestigious enough position for you to lose your name to it.
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Post by adzpower on Feb 9, 2016 7:03:04 GMT -5
I don't think he thought they were useless. It's just that Piper and Paige's powers are more active, so would pose more of a threat to him. The Seer showed him Piper blowing him up in that vision right at the start of the episode, the same vision showed Paige orbing the crystal cage around him, once he found out this info he probably though that by at least taking away their powers he would stand more of a chance. The vison did not show Phoebe fighting back, so he didn't count on that. Nor did he think Phoebe would have a vision of her own about the attack. Which she did.
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Post by Chrisaholic on Feb 9, 2016 10:55:30 GMT -5
Zankou had awaited them with Phoebe's power, though Phoebe seemed to have her own vision still. At least, that's what he mentioned.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2016 11:11:54 GMT -5
He was determined to do it his way no matter what. In "Charmed and Dangerous" The Source goes from being an intelligent puppet master (the wizard behind the curtain if you will), to a self-destructive man-child. As you say, he already had foresight thanks to The Seer, but he mostly just chose to ignore the guidance she offered anyway. He had no intention whatsoever of changing his plan. So honestly, even if he did take Phoebe's visions, I think he'd probably still go right for the self-destruct button whatever he saw. I think that's just how he was written in that episode unfortunately.
Plus as others have mentioned, I think some of the less intelligent bad guys are just too wrapped up in flashy, destructive powers to see the value in the more subtle abilities. You get that with the Stillman sisters in season 6. The more intelligent bad guys seem to appreciate them more; Zankou and Matthew Tate for example.
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Post by yinsoul on Feb 9, 2016 12:03:19 GMT -5
I don't think he thought they were useless. It's just that Piper and Paige's powers are more active, so would pose more of a threat to him. The Seer showed him Piper blowing him up in that vision right at the start of the episode, the same vision showed Paige orbing the crystal cage around him, once he found out this info he probably though that by at least taking away their powers he would stand more of a chance. The vison did not show Phoebe fighting back, so he didn't count on that. Nor did he think Phoebe would have a vision of her own about the attack. Which she did. This is it exactly though. If I were going up against people, 2 fairly destructive and dangerous, and one who could possibly anticipate me, anticipator is going down first. Yes, it might be that I am in fact playing right into the vision, but he also saw that they needed the crystal cage, and he knew from the vision that Piper could not, in fact kill him by herself. In fact, his reflected powers kill him after the cage is in place. His initial plan was good, about taking them down bit by bit, especially the White Mag- ah, whitelighter, so he couldn't come to their rescue and some added emotional turmoil couldn't hurt. But had he nullified Pheebs somehow (hopefully not the Hollow, but he was again, being too dumb to live) I think he would have improved his chances, a little. Its not like the sisters haven't wormed their way out of such things before. I mean good grief, basically everything that season that he was directly involved in contriving was undone by premonitions. Brain Drain. This was actually a good plan! If Phoebe had not seen him toasting Paige and herself with their powers they would have been gone, that's it. Maybe they would have eventually figured it out, but eventually would not have been long enough to keep their powers. He simply refused the thought that something subtle like future sight could be anything worthy of being wielded by him, that's why he had people to do it for him, I guess. And amusingly, it was his undoing. Sorry for the tirade.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Feb 9, 2016 18:50:07 GMT -5
I don't think he thought they were useless. It's just that Piper and Paige's powers are more active, so would pose more of a threat to him. The Seer showed him Piper blowing him up in that vision right at the start of the episode, the same vision showed Paige orbing the crystal cage around him, once he found out this info he probably though that by at least taking away their powers he would stand more of a chance. The vison did not show Phoebe fighting back, so he didn't count on that. Nor did he think Phoebe would have a vision of her own about the attack. Which she did. This is it exactly though. If I were going up against people, 2 fairly destructive and dangerous, and one who could possibly anticipate me, anticipator is going down first. Yes, it might be that I am in fact playing right into the vision, but he also saw that they needed the crystal cage, and he knew from the vision that Piper could not, in fact kill him by herself. In fact, his reflected powers kill him after the cage is in place. His initial plan was good, about taking them down bit by bit, especially the White Mag- ah, whitelighter, so he couldn't come to their rescue and some added emotional turmoil couldn't hurt. But had he nullified Pheebs somehow (hopefully not the Hollow, but he was again, being too dumb to live) I think he would have improved his chances, a little. Its not like the sisters haven't wormed their way out of such things before. I mean good grief, basically everything that season that he was directly involved in contriving was undone by premonitions. Brain Drain. This was actually a good plan! If Phoebe had not seen him toasting Paige and herself with their powers they would have been gone, that's it. Maybe they would have eventually figured it out, but eventually would not have been long enough to keep their powers. He simply refused the thought that something subtle like future sight could be anything worthy of being wielded by him, that's why he had people to do it for him, I guess. And amusingly, it was his undoing. Sorry for the tirade. No need to be sorry - this all makes a lot sense. I was going to reply with "Great post!"
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Post by sol on Feb 10, 2016 4:54:56 GMT -5
Charmed taught me an important thing: the arrogance always leads to disaster
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Post by Deano on Feb 10, 2016 6:48:40 GMT -5
The Source enormously underestimated seeing power/premonitions, both Phoebe's and the Seer's. Zankou, so didn’t even feel the need to steal Phoebe’s power. On the other hand, Zankou already had the gift of prescience so understood the usefulness of having foreknowledge. As witnessed by Zankou, stealing premonition power would’ve stood the Source in much better stead than Piper and Paige’s trophy powers and he would’ve had the benefit of not having to rely on the Seer who was feeding him conflicting information to suit her own agenda.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2016 12:23:14 GMT -5
Because he's a bloody idiot. How did this guy last so long as leader of the Underworld?
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Feb 10, 2016 13:50:35 GMT -5
Because demons were too afraid to challenge him obviously even though the Source was no match really and the ones that could I.E. Zankou and the Tall Man were already locked up inside cages.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2016 18:45:03 GMT -5
The Source clearly had a good propaganda machine that would make Kim Jong-un proud.
In reality, he was such a wimp that, without his loyal mooks to protect him, he would have been toast long ago. Heck, if they took him on alone, Rex and Hannah could probably have kicked the Source's sorry a** (they brought the Charmed Ones to their knees, after all).
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Post by lilchi7212 on Feb 10, 2016 21:20:51 GMT -5
Because he's a bloody idiot. How did this guy last so long as leader of the Underworld? It's all about how you project yourself to others
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 13:21:04 GMT -5
This is exactly why Zankou was a better villain than the Source. He was intelligent, cunning, and saw value in methods besides brute force. He completely outsmarted the sisters and nearly defeated them as a result.
Rex & Hannah were also like that. They carefully planned out every move and ended up bringing the sisters to their knees. The sisters would've lost if not for the walking deus ex machina called Leo saving their a$$es. Hard to believe that R&H ever answered to the Source, when they were clearly so much smarter and superior to him. (Thank goodness for Tim's series giving these characters their due!)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 18:14:01 GMT -5
That goes without saying. Rex and Hannah had maneuvered the sisters into an impossible situation. There was literally no way out for the Halliwell sisters. They won not because of anything they did, but because of Mr Deus Ex Machina, Leo.
Too bad R&H are not more recognized around here. Ironic that I had to go outside Charmed fandom to find most of the audience for my stories.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 18:41:09 GMT -5
That goes without saying. Rex and Hannah had maneuvered the sisters into an impossible situation. There was literally no way out for the Halliwell sisters. They won not because of anything they did, but because of Mr Deus Ex Machina, Leo. To think that it almost could've been all over for the sisters that early into the show. They really got rid of R&H way too soon, didn't they? So much lost potential with the characters...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 20:40:48 GMT -5
If there was one saving grace of R&H leaving the show so soon, it was the blank slate I was left with. It would have been virtually impossible for me to develop a more established character, such as Zankou, for example. However, since we learned virtually nothing about R&H (not even if those were their actual names, for example), I was thus free to develop them as I saw fit.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 23:50:15 GMT -5
If there was one saving grace of R&H leaving the show so soon, it was the blank slate I was left with. It would have been virtually impossible for me to develop a more established character, such as Zankou, for example. However, since we learned virtually nothing about R&H (not even if those were their actual names, for example), I was thus free to develop them as I saw fit. Every cloud has a silver lining. Considering how awful the show's writing got later on, would you have even wanted R&H to be on the show past Season 1, anyways? I shudder to think how they would've ended up in Kern's hands. Much better that we have the reformed, complex characters of your series instead.
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Post by ljones on Feb 14, 2016 0:17:00 GMT -5
I don't think he thought they were useless. It's just that Piper and Paige's powers are more active, so would pose more of a threat to him. The Seer showed him Piper blowing him up in that vision right at the start of the episode, the same vision showed Paige orbing the crystal cage around him, once he found out this info he probably though that by at least taking away their powers he would stand more of a chance. The vison did not show Phoebe fighting back, so he didn't count on that. Nor did he think Phoebe would have a vision of her own about the attack. Which she did. That just tells me that he was dumb.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 0:58:26 GMT -5
Yeah, R&H dodged a bullet there, didn't they.
That is why I got worried that Pat Shand might get his claws onto them. However, with the comics more than likely being cancelled, I don't think that's going to happen.
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