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Post by Assassin Witch on Apr 18, 2016 19:53:59 GMT -5
Wyatt was born on Imbolic and there is no indication that Melinda was born on a Wiccan holiday. They could have been both around the same age, but we'll never know about the date.
The reasons for the divorce are very interesting. Whitelighter got in the way (which is more realistic since he's supposed to be a great whitelighter who cares) vs Elders, who don't.
Hmmmm...and as much as I'm not a fan of Phoebe/Cole, now I'm imagining MB!Phoebe and Cole.......
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2016 21:37:41 GMT -5
Could be. Even a delay of a day or two could have done it. Meaning where an X chromosome would have been in place on a Tuesday, a Y chromosome would have been in place on a Thursday.
I honestly don't think the writers had a clue as to what Wicca was, let alone its holidays. They probably just heard the names and thought it was cool.
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Post by Assassin Witch on Apr 18, 2016 21:47:51 GMT -5
Wish they had their own Book of Shadows to use. *sighs*
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2016 23:44:30 GMT -5
They should have just dropped Wicca from the show altogether. Any Wiccans you saw on Charmed were either Ensign Deadmeat characters or just played for laughs (Marcy on Ms. Hellfire comes to mind here).
Charmed did not do Wicca any favours.
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Post by West on Apr 18, 2016 23:59:45 GMT -5
The show seemed to make it appear only the charmed ones were the only witches around with powers. They only helped innocents in one city. What about the rest of the world.
But this is about the halliwells so i understand why they did it that way. As we saw with Billie or Christy.
Howeve half these wicca groups were almost like fans of witchcraft and had no real powers, as if the halliwells are the only witches in the world at times.
I didnt expect another Billie taking screentime. But more witches with powers as one off characters isnt that bad. Powers not as strong as the halliwells of course.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2016 3:08:21 GMT -5
I wish the show had never used the word 'Wicca' at all. It's a religion, not just a fancy word for 'witchcraft' and Charmed is obviously based on Judeo-Christian history/culture/mythology. I would've been fine with 'Witchcraft'/'the Craft' with witches just being "normal" women like the sisters and not the annoying flowy-dress wearing hippy stereotypes waffling on about 'nature and rebirth' that we got.
I agree, West, it seems that only the Halliwells and the Jenkinses were allowed to be powerful/useful witches.
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Post by sol on Apr 19, 2016 4:53:27 GMT -5
By the way, I've always believed that S4-8 was an alternate timeline - in the original one, all three originals survive, Paige doesn't exist, the sisters vanquish the Source with no need to use the Hollow so Cole never becomes the Source or goes crazy or is vanquished and Wyatt is Melinda, Piper and Leo's only child who's a witch but has no powers - the powers culminated with the Charmed Ones and the death of the Source of All Evil, after which the sisters took the Angel of Destiny up on his offer and gave up their powers, the end of their story as the Charmed Ones. They did this because their Angel of Destiny didn't lie to them - he told them that if they decided to keep their powers, Piper would have a son who was the Twice-Blessed Child and the rest of their lives would be devoted to protecting him rather than protecting innocents, so the sisters decided to give up their powers and live normal lives - and when they made those choices, the Angel made Leo and Cole mortal, too, with the world believing that Cole had always been a lawyer and Leo a doctor with none of the extras that magic added - Cole and Leo were also given substitute memories so they think they're the same age as the sisters and have never been anything but human, which match the substitute memories the sisters have been given. Just like at the beginning, they were all taken off Evil's radar and never bothered by magical baddies again, completely forgetting everything that happened in S1-3. Yes, Sol, I'm sure you hate it, because they aren't "real". But that's the fun of TV shows - you can have your "reality" and I can have my fantasy and we can both be happy. I can't hate it, it's only a different timeline, Es' timeline! We talked a lot about it, if you think that great changes give birth to other timelines, Charmed leaves a huge space to the brainchild of other stories At the end of ABHL I was almost sure that Piper had died, during the previous seasons she had too often risked death How it would have been sad Charmed without Piper and all her contradictions,tenderness and aggression, shyness and wildness! And without her sons! It makes sense: the most powerful witches of all time came, they overturned the demonic world and fulfilled their mission The two boys open up a different story, a new magical power of which the prophecy says nothing - for good or evil? - o their role is to discover and the dynamic between the two brothers, one frighteningly powerful and and the other a normal witch, is something different from the strong and synchronic sisters' bond I don't think of Wyatt and Chris as the heirs of the sisters, followers of their story I think of more like Supernatural - thieves! - two brothers with a their purpose
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Post by Esmeralda on Apr 19, 2016 8:14:32 GMT -5
Wyatt was born on Imbolic and there is no indication that Melinda was born on a Wiccan holiday. They could have been both around the same age, but we'll never know about the date. Is there any place in the actual show that shows he was born on Imobolic or is that just fanon, remembering that canon is just what's shown on the screen and not what's in books? I think it's just fanon, part of why I think Melinda in the MB timeline is Wyatt in the alternate-universe one. I think she became Wyatt when the sisters agreed to continue their destiny, actually starting a new one, protecting their children rather than innocents, which is proper for mothers, but not necessarily aunts. Melinda in the MB timeline is definitely not the Prudence who we see in 'Forever Charmed' or the Melinda who we see the comics - too young. (Note: since Piper never mentioned her daughter's name on the show and since Prudence is what she would've named Wyatt if he was a girl, I'll always call her that, even if the comics - which aren't canon - do otherwise.) Because I don't think that Wyatt was born on a Wiccan holiday, I think that like the prophecy said, he is *a* twice-blessed child and not *the* Twice Blessed Child (which was never mentioned on the show after he was born, so being *the* Twice Blessed Child is just fanon). I think he was special because he was the first, the first child born of a Charmed One and her whitelighter - which makes Chris just as twice-blessed, just not as powerful because he wasn't the first. I think Wyatt had more powers because he’s the reincarnation of that cult’s leader more than the fact that he’s a Halliwell or what day he was born (the reason why he has powers that aren't Warren ones). I also think there was no need for time to stand still for an occasion that had already happened. I also think that Prudence isn't twice-blessed because Leo wasn't a whitelighter when she was conceived. In the same way I also believe that Paige isn't twice-blessed because Patty wasn't a Charmed One. OOOOO! That does make interesting speculation. Do you think they still would've met under those circumstances (no need for the Source to go after them since if the people at Buckland's didn't even know that Piper was Prue's sister, obviously there wasn't much of a Power of Three, probably the reason why Prue didn't die in that timeline) and what would that have been like?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2016 11:14:41 GMT -5
The show seemed to make it appear only the charmed ones were the only witches around with powers. They only helped innocents in one city. What about the rest of the world. Well, obviously the show's limited budget kept the sisters confined to San Francisco, especially in the later seasons. The novels, on the other hand, had no such limitations, so you saw the sisters traveling far more in those. (They went to New Orleans in "Voodoo Moon," while "The Legacy of Merlin" sent them to England, just to name two examples.) But this is about the halliwells so i understand why they did it that way. As we saw with Billie or Christy. Howeve half these wicca groups were almost like fans of witchcraft and had no real powers, as if the halliwells are the only witches in the world at times. I didnt expect another Billie taking screentime. But more witches with powers as one off characters isnt that bad. Powers not as strong as the halliwells of course. This is why I don't think Billie and Christy were a bad idea in theory. I've always liked the idea of the sisters taking in a younger witch to mentor, and the story about finding and saving Christy from evil is rooted in the idea of the Charmed Ones being protectors of the innocent. It would've also been a great opportunity to finally depict non-Halliwell witches as being something other than throwaway victims. However, like a lot of ideas in the later seasons, the execution was terrible. They made Billie way too powerful, and they completely ruined it with that "Ultimate Power" nonsense. It also didn't help that the sisters themselves (especially Piper and Phoebe) had become completely horrible and unlikable by then.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2016 11:47:47 GMT -5
The same applies with Fan Fiction. I've sent Rex and Hannah off planet on a few occasions.
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Post by Assassin Witch on Apr 19, 2016 12:02:34 GMT -5
Hmmm, Es...
I thought the date of Wyatt's birth stated what day it was, but I haven't watched in years.
But they were making a bug deal of the day before Piper went into labor.
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Post by sol on Apr 19, 2016 15:06:44 GMT -5
Wyatt was born on Imbolic and there is no indication that Melinda was born on a Wiccan holiday. They could have been both around the same age, but we'll never know about the date. The reasons for the divorce are very interesting. Whitelighter got in the way (which is more realistic since he's supposed to be a great whitelighter who cares) vs Elders, who don't. Hmmmm...and as much as I'm not a fan of Phoebe/Cole, now I'm imagining MB!Phoebe and Cole....... Wyatt was not born only in the midpoint between the winter solstice and the spring equinox, as Peige said: do you guys think it's weird that the Aurora Borealis is happening the night before the Wiccan Festival of Lights? And then Merrill: Centuries ago, I unearthed a quatrain from the tomb of a wise apothecary. "When three planets burn as one over a sky of dancing light, and magic will rest for a holy day to welcome a twice blessed child." Paige: Those are the signs that we saw. The Aurora Borealis, the planetary alignment, the wiccan Sabbath. In the future of Morality Bites Piper's daughter wasn't a prophesied child but a normal witch, therefore, in the day prophesied, someone else had been born and had inherited Wyatt'magic capacity The lesson that the sisters learn from their journey into the future, or that being witches means that their bond as sisters as to be strong,create a turning point from that timeline, a breakthrough that will lead Prue to be the undisputed leader rather than brilliant entrepreneur and to die In this different timeline, where Phoebe meets Cole and become Queen of the Underworld, Piper conceives a son, who'ill be born in the magical day, twice-blessed because of the day, not because of his parents Blessed from the dying winter and the coming spring The road is never straight and choices lead to different future
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2016 20:14:21 GMT -5
Is there any place in the actual show that shows he was born on Imobolic or is that just fanon, remembering that canon is just what's shown on the screen and not what's in books? I think it's just fanon, part of why I think Melinda in the MB timeline is Wyatt in the alternate-universe one. I think she became Wyatt when the sisters agreed to continue their destiny, actually starting a new one, protecting their children rather than innocents, which is proper for mothers, but not necessarily aunts. Melinda in the MB timeline is definitely not the Prudence who we see in 'Forever Charmed' or the Melinda who we see the comics - too young. (Note: since Piper never mentioned her daughter's name on the show and since Prudence is what she would've named Wyatt if he was a girl, I'll always call her that, even if the comics - which aren't canon - do otherwise.) Because I don't think that Wyatt was born on a Wiccan holiday, I think that like the prophecy said, he is *a* twice-blessed child and not *the* Twice Blessed Child (which was never mentioned on the show after he was born, so being *the* Twice Blessed Child is just fanon). I think he was special because he was the first, the first child born of a Charmed One and her whitelighter - which makes Chris just as twice-blessed, just not as powerful because he wasn't the first. I think Wyatt had more powers because he’s the reincarnation of that cult’s leader more than the fact that he’s a Halliwell or what day he was born (the reason why he has powers that aren't Warren ones). I also think there was no need for time to stand still for an occasion that had already happened. I also think that Prudence isn't twice-blessed because Leo wasn't a whitelighter when she was conceived. In the same way I also believe that Paige isn't twice-blessed because Patty wasn't a Charmed One. Phoebe and Paige referred to the Northern Lights occurring on the eve of 'the Sabbath' (the day Wyatt was born) and also that Jupiter, Mars and Saturn were all in Gemini, something that only happens every 300 years. Those were the "three signs" that foretold Wyatt's birth. I assume the show's depiction of 'Wiccan Festival of Lights' is their way of portraying Imbolc, but making it sound less... pagan.
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Post by Esmeralda on Apr 19, 2016 21:07:47 GMT -5
Hmmm, Es... I thought the date of Wyatt's birth stated what day it was, but I haven't watched in years. But they were making a bug deal of the day before Piper went into labor. Is there any place in the actual show that shows he was born on Imobolic or is that just fanon, remembering that canon is just what's shown on the screen and not what's in books? I think it's just fanon, part of why I think Melinda in the MB timeline is Wyatt in the alternate-universe one. I think she became Wyatt when the sisters agreed to continue their destiny, actually starting a new one, protecting their children rather than innocents, which is proper for mothers, but not necessarily aunts. Melinda in the MB timeline is definitely not the Prudence who we see in 'Forever Charmed' or the Melinda who we see the comics - too young. (Note: since Piper never mentioned her daughter's name on the show and since Prudence is what she would've named Wyatt if he was a girl, I'll always call her that, even if the comics - which aren't canon - do otherwise.) Because I don't think that Wyatt was born on a Wiccan holiday, I think that like the prophecy said, he is *a* twice-blessed child and not *the* Twice Blessed Child (which was never mentioned on the show after he was born, so being *the* Twice Blessed Child is just fanon). I think he was special because he was the first, the first child born of a Charmed One and her whitelighter - which makes Chris just as twice-blessed, just not as powerful because he wasn't the first. I think Wyatt had more powers because he’s the reincarnation of that cult’s leader more than the fact that he’s a Halliwell or what day he was born (the reason why he has powers that aren't Warren ones). I also think there was no need for time to stand still for an occasion that had already happened. I also think that Prudence isn't twice-blessed because Leo wasn't a whitelighter when she was conceived. In the same way I also believe that Paige isn't twice-blessed because Patty wasn't a Charmed One. Phoebe and Paige referred to the Northern Lights occurring on the eve of 'the Sabbath' (the day Wyatt was born) and also that Jupiter, Mars and Saturn were all in Gemini, something that only happens every 300 years. Those were the "three signs" that foretold Wyatt's birth. I assume the show's depiction of 'Wiccan Festival of Lights' is their way of portraying Imbolc, but making it sound less... pagan. As you guys know, I'm one of the few Charmed fans who can admit when I'm wrong, and I have to. Right at the very beginning of "The Day The Magic Died": And the Wiccan Festival of Lights *is* Imbolic. But I don't think I'm wrong about Wyatt being the only twice-blessed child. It's why he's powerful, but he's still *a* twice-blessed child, not *THE* Twice-blessed Child, so Chris is still twice-blessed, too, just like Melinda but not Prudence Melinda, because their mother was a Charmed One; their father a whitelighter. Stubborn, I know. Had the prophecy said THE Twice Blessed, that would be one thing, but it didn't. It said "a". So the day made him powerful, but his parents made him twice-blessed. Had he been Piper and Leo's only child, as I believe we would've been shown had the show ended with "Witch Way Now?" (the reason suddenly Victor Halliwell became Victor Bennett and Penny Johnson Halliwell suddenly became Penny Halliwell since Halliwells keep their maiden name so that Piper would stay Piper Halliwell rather than Piper Wyatt, all so that they could have a Twice-Blessed son named Wyatt Halliwell), then he *would've* been the Twice-Blessed Child. But as soon as Chris was added to the family, both just became twice-blessed children. That's my head canon and I'm sticking to it! Especially coz the comics used it to in order to "undestiny" the Angels of Destiny.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2016 23:47:14 GMT -5
Okay, everybody, I think it's time for me to remind you all that the title of this thread is Was Seasons 4-8 an alternate timeline? not Wyatt VS Melinda Part 2000.
Take the Wyatt VS Melinda discussions to the appropriate threads, please. Let's get this thread back on track.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2016 0:12:55 GMT -5
Going back and re-reading Deano's original post...
I've been starting to wonder if one of the sisters had always been destined to die young just so Paige could reunite with her birth family. Even the one confirmed timeline that had Prue, Piper, and Phoebe all living past 2001, "Morality Bites," eventually led to Phoebe's death. Would we have eventually seen Paige join Prue and Piper (and presumably set them back on the right track) had that timeline been allowed to play out?
And, then, there's all of the possible deaths and timelines that resulted from time being rewound in both "Deja Vu All Over Again" and "All Hell Breaks Loose." And, while these weren't fixed with time travel, it's also hard to ignore Piper dying in "Awakened," and Prue dying in "Be Careful What You Witch For."
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2016 0:16:24 GMT -5
Yeah, it does seem that one sister was fated to die, no matter what, so Paige could find her true heritage. It was a temporal role of the dice each time. And Prue was the one that ended up getting the snake eyes in the end.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2016 11:33:04 GMT -5
As much as I absolutely hated this line from the finale, it seems to strongly imply it:
Awful as it sounds, Paige would've never met her birth family and discovered her true heritage if not for Prue dying. I'm starting to believe that it really was destiny for one of the first three sisters to die young. There were many times that it could've been either Prue, Piper, or Phoebe, but Prue was the one who ultimately got the short end of the stick.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2016 11:39:00 GMT -5
I just wish it could have been handled better. Of course, since they couldn't get Shannen to appear, or wanted to pay her for the use of her image, this had to do.
However, Seasons Four through Eight were not an alternate time line (as much as we wish they could be). It was Charmed Reality Prime, bad writing and all.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2016 16:05:34 GMT -5
And the Wiccan Festival of Lights *is* Imbolic. But I don't think I'm wrong about Wyatt being the only twice-blessed child. It's why he's powerful, but he's still *a* twice-blessed child, not *THE* Twice-blessed Child, so Chris is still twice-blessed, too, just like Melinda but not Prudence Melinda, because their mother was a Charmed One; their father a whitelighter. Stubborn, I know. Had the prophecy said THE Twice Blessed, that would be one thing, but it didn't. It said "a". So the day made him powerful, but his parents made him twice-blessed. Had he been Piper and Leo's only child, as I believe we would've been shown had the show ended with "Witch Way Now?" (the reason suddenly Victor Halliwell became Victor Bennett and Penny Johnson Halliwell suddenly became Penny Halliwell since Halliwells keep their maiden name so that Piper would stay Piper Halliwell rather than Piper Wyatt, all so that they could have a Twice-Blessed son named Wyatt Halliwell), then he *would've* been the Twice-Blessed Child. But as soon as Chris was added to the family, both just became twice-blessed children. That's my head canon and I'm sticking to it! Especially coz the comics used it to in order to "undestiny" the Angels of Destiny. Yeah, I do agree there, Es. Wyatt/Melinda would've been 'twice-blessed' regardless of their birthday. I think the writers just had him born on Imbolc to add some "punch" - in their usual ham-fisted way. In some ways, I think "the Charmed Ones" could have been applicable to ANY set of three sisters - not EVERY set of three sister witches, you understand, but not just the Halliwell sisters either. Thus access to the Power of Three would be a rare privilege rather than a once-in-a-lifetime occurrence. Personally, I try not to include anything post-S4 into my own head canon anyway!
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