Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?" Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,903
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Post by Esmeralda on May 16, 2016 2:06:36 GMT -5
Yes, we did discuss it, but Kern still totally screwed up. Time manipulation was *not* one of Tempus' powers. If it was, the three sisters would've died during 'Deja vu All Over Again'. It should've rewound time to where Phoebe was on the step, and then go forward. But with Phoebe able to remember what had happened - just like during 'Deja vu All Over Again' - she'd be able to make sure they do something different - like stay with her sisters rather than go to the Underworld, while also stopping her sisters from chasing Shax into the streets. Kern should've either done that or used a different demon - the same way he should've used a different "demon" in 'Kill Billie, Vol 2' and 'Forever Charmed' than the Hollow, which doesn't give powers but only absorbs powers, only giving powers when it is put back in its box, and then just returning the powers it stole. The Source's powers only went into Cole because the Source was vanquished and Cole was mortal, which is how he became the Source. I still think 'All Hell Breaks Loose' is just like 'Forever Charmed' - not a bad episode; not a bad season finale, but a horrible Prue-ender and a horrible Charmed-ender. You bring up some really good points. I think Shannen directed a fantastic and great final, It just was a bad way to end Prue's character, because It *wasn't intended to be her last.
I think I appreciate the acting. Am I the only one who shed a tear when Piper died in the hospital with Prue by her side. Come on, that scene was so good. I praise Shannen for directing such a powerful moment. That *I* would of been just as happy If the series had ended here. Wouldn't have been the best final, but the acting was top notch and I knowing me and how much I didn't take the direction our show took later, It would of been a good out. That's not to say I cant appreciate some episodes later on, *but* as an older fan, you can see *why* I have my concerns and issues with the writing style that followed.
I think If I had to grade this episode under the following criteria, It would be this; A. Writing - 5.5/10 (our writer Brad Kern had a good idea and It was a good ender but too many plot-holes and inconsistencies) B. Directing - 9/10 (Shannen directed one hell of an episode - and *had* she left gracefully, I'd approve of her staying on directing episodes) C. Acting - 10/10 (Shannen and Holly brought the A game to performances) D. Story and Logic - 3.5/10 (Too many to name) E. Episode ending/Impact - 7/10 (The cliffhanger left so much impact as a viewer on how it ended)
You know I quite like my criteria for grading episodes, I might try and apply this to Forever Charmed.
Oh, GrannyCharmed! I *really* like your criteria! That would make an interesting thread for the various episodes we've been discussing - how members would rate the episode under each. For me, for 'All Hell Breaks Loose' it would be: A. Writing - 2/10 - This could've/should've been so much better if it had been written consistently with the rest of Charmed. I put all the plotholes on Kern's head. I *hate* the fact that he wrote so many season finales/premieres and usually did (IMOHO) a rotten job. 'Charmed Again, Part One' and *most* of 'Something Wicca This Way Goes' are the only ones he wrote that I like. B. Directing - 10/10 - Enough said. C. Acting - 10/10 - Enough said - and I'd give that to everyone in that episode D. Logic - 0/10 - Oops! Sounds like I was putting too much of this in the writing, so I guess I'll have to raise that to 5/10. E. Episode Ending/Impact - 8/10 Oh, yes, it left *so* much impact, although I wonder if fans would look at it that way if all three had survived... For me, I truly thought it was the SERIES finale and not the SEASON finale and sat there for a good half-hour with my chin on the ground - the reason I know there was no missing scene that so many fans talk about - what could be more shocking than that? But, due to the logic, this will still never be in my Favorite Fifty episodes list, just like most of the Brad Kern-written episodes. The logic shortages would just snap me right out of the show and back to reality, taking away from the impact.
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Post by Astral Vision on May 16, 2016 2:12:08 GMT -5
Nice ratings, Granny and Es. Just wanted to check, is tomorrow (the 17th) the 15 year anniversary of this episode's air date?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2016 4:57:41 GMT -5
Nice ratings, Granny and Es. Just wanted to check, is tomorrow (the 17th) the 15 year anniversary of this episode's air date? Wow! Reality check... I'm getting old!
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on May 16, 2016 5:01:37 GMT -5
I thought the episode was good actually when I first saw it originally.
It was shocking and dramatic with Piper dying and the end scene after Shax got them as I didn't know who was goanna live or whether both sisters had died as I didn't know Shannen was leaving afterwards.
The acting and directing was great more so Prue and Piper than Phoebe I thought.
My views on here did change years later though after seeing this multiple times like why did Prue and Piper go out and vanquish Shax in the street knowing full well of the possibility of exposure which was stupid really.
Why did Phoebe go save Cole and not stay with her sisters when the power of three was needed to work the spell obviously?
And why was time not affected in the Underworld when that was reset meaning Phoebe would've been upstairs by the book of shadows when Shax attacked which was all down to writing of course.
Other than that the acting and directing were still good.
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Granny Charmed
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Post by Granny Charmed on May 16, 2016 8:01:04 GMT -5
You bring up some really good points. I think Shannen directed a fantastic and great final, It just was a bad way to end Prue's character, because It *wasn't intended to be her last.
I think I appreciate the acting. Am I the only one who shed a tear when Piper died in the hospital with Prue by her side. Come on, that scene was so good. I praise Shannen for directing such a powerful moment. That *I* would of been just as happy If the series had ended here. Wouldn't have been the best final, but the acting was top notch and I knowing me and how much I didn't take the direction our show took later, It would of been a good out. That's not to say I cant appreciate some episodes later on, *but* as an older fan, you can see *why* I have my concerns and issues with the writing style that followed.
I think If I had to grade this episode under the following criteria, It would be this; A. Writing - 5.5/10 (our writer Brad Kern had a good idea and It was a good ender but too many plot-holes and inconsistencies) B. Directing - 9/10 (Shannen directed one hell of an episode - and *had* she left gracefully, I'd approve of her staying on directing episodes) C. Acting - 10/10 (Shannen and Holly brought the A game to performances) D. Story and Logic - 3.5/10 (Too many to name) E. Episode ending/Impact - 7/10 (The cliffhanger left so much impact as a viewer on how it ended)
You know I quite like my criteria for grading episodes, I might try and apply this to Forever Charmed.
Oh, GrannyCharmed! I *really* like your criteria! That would make an interesting thread for the various episodes we've been discussing - how members would rate the episode under each. For me, for 'All Hell Breaks Loose' it would be: A. Writing - 2/10 - This could've/should've been so much better if it had been written consistently with the rest of Charmed. I put all the plotholes on Kern's head. I *hate* the fact that he wrote so many season finales/premieres and usually did (IMOHO) a rotten job. 'Charmed Again, Part One' and *most* of 'Something Wicca This Way Goes' are the only ones he wrote that I like. B. Directing - 10/10 - Enough said. C. Acting - 10/10 - Enough said - and I'd give that to everyone in that episode D. Logic - 0/10 - Oops! Sounds like I was putting too much of this in the writing, so I guess I'll have to raise that to 5/10. E. Episode Ending/Impact - 8/10 Oh, yes, it left *so* much impact, although I wonder if fans would look at it that way if all three had survived... For me, I truly thought it was the SERIES finale and not the SEASON finale and sat there for a good half-hour with my chin on the ground - the reason I know there was no missing scene that so many fans talk about - what could be more shocking than that? But, due to the logic, this will still never be in my Favorite Fifty episodes list, just like most of the Brad Kern-written episodes. The logic shortages would just snap me right out of the show and back to reality, taking away from the impact. Im so happy to see you loved my criteria. ☺ We should start something up and go through all the episodes reviewing like this with a charmed episode of the week like thing. That would be *so* much fun. Plus *we could* if anyones good at maths add up all our criteria gradings for a *Charmed Cafe* official episode rating. Oh I so agree with you. Wasnt that ending perfect. My daughter was going to me when we first watched - that cant be the end, Is the show ended". My granddaughter was just in shocked and thought that Phoebe was the only sister left standing - and her sisters are dead and gone. Expecting Phoebe to turn into an evil witch and work for the source now. Great grades. ☺
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Granny Charmed
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Post by Granny Charmed on May 16, 2016 8:03:28 GMT -5
Nice ratings, Granny and Es. Just wanted to check, is tomorrow (the 17th) the 15 year anniversary of this episode's air date? Wow! Reality check... I'm getting old! Wow your right mrmilano. Time flies and yes I feel so old now than an early 50s gal when it first aired. lol Im glad I started this thread then - *Best way* to honour that event.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2016 11:32:02 GMT -5
It's amazing how many people claim to have seen this mythical lost episode in which Leo says that Prue is dead. They are clearly mistaking fan made videos that have cropped up over the years for a "lost episode".
Can't they tell that these videos are fan made? The biggest clue is to see the sisters suddenly wearing different clothes or sporting different hair styles, since these videos are scenes from different episodes slapped together. It's not hard to spot.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2016 17:15:17 GMT -5
Wow! Reality check... I'm getting old! Wow your right mrmilano. Time flies and yes I feel so old now than an early 50s gal when it first aired. lol Im glad I started this thread then - *Best way* to honour that event. Just curious granny. Are you from the US? Just wondering because of how you spelled "honour" or if that's the way you spell honor in the States. I always think twice when writing on boards because in NZ, we use British English which retains the "u" in words like colour or favourite (which is a word I use a lot in this forum!) as well as "s"'s rather than "z"'s like in organisation. I have really clear memories of All Hell Breaks Loose, as it came to us a little delayed and more so around the time of September 11, 2001 - or September 12th as it was over here. It's a key moment in time, when I was 13 (I am now 28) and remember being able to lose myself in a fantasy tv show to get away from what was really happening in the real world. Charmed was a TV show that crossed over 2 decades and 2 millenniums and All Hell Breaks Loose and Charmed Again makes me remember the tone and mood of shock and loss reminiscent of the dreadful events that happened that year. I hope this isn't a downer post because it's not supposed to be. All Hell Breaks Loose and Charmed Again will always hold a special place in my heart because of the quality of the episodes and the social events that occurred around it - most notably the heroism and the united force that brings people together when terrible and sad things happen - making you remember how very fortunate we all are.
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?" Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,903
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Post by Esmeralda on May 16, 2016 19:41:15 GMT -5
Oh, GrannyCharmed! I *really* like your criteria! That would make an interesting thread for the various episodes we've been discussing - how members would rate the episode under each. For me, for 'All Hell Breaks Loose' it would be: A. Writing - 2/10 - This could've/should've been so much better if it had been written consistently with the rest of Charmed. I put all the plotholes on Kern's head. I *hate* the fact that he wrote so many season finales/premieres and usually did (IMOHO) a rotten job. 'Charmed Again, Part One' and *most* of 'Something Wicca This Way Goes' are the only ones he wrote that I like. B. Directing - 10/10 - Enough said. C. Acting - 10/10 - Enough said - and I'd give that to everyone in that episode D. Logic - 0/10 - Oops! Sounds like I was putting too much of this in the writing, so I guess I'll have to raise that to 5/10. E. Episode Ending/Impact - 8/10 Oh, yes, it left *so* much impact, although I wonder if fans would look at it that way if all three had survived... For me, I truly thought it was the SERIES finale and not the SEASON finale and sat there for a good half-hour with my chin on the ground - the reason I know there was no missing scene that so many fans talk about - what could be more shocking than that? But, due to the logic, this will still never be in my Favorite Fifty episodes list, just like most of the Brad Kern-written episodes. The logic shortages would just snap me right out of the show and back to reality, taking away from the impact. Im so happy to see you loved my criteria. ☺ We should start something up and go through all the episodes reviewing like this with a charmed episode of the week like thing. That would be *so* much fun. Plus *we could* if anyones good at maths add up all our criteria gradings for a *Charmed Cafe* official episode rating. Oh I so agree with you. Wasnt that ending perfect. My daughter was going to me when we first watched - that cant be the end, Is the show ended". My granddaughter was just in shocked and thought that Phoebe was the only sister left standing - and her sisters are dead and gone. Expecting Phoebe to turn into an evil witch and work for the source now. Great grades. ☺ I would sincerely suggest you copy the link to this thread and send it to AW and suggest your criteria be part of the new Cafe. Doing it for each episode (well, at least the ones members are willing to watch - we shouldn't force people to watch ones they don't want to watch...) would be great fun and very informative as to what's important about Charmed to each member.
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Granny Charmed
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Post by Granny Charmed on May 16, 2016 20:13:37 GMT -5
Wow your right mrmilano. Time flies and yes I feel so old now than an early 50s gal when it first aired. lol Im glad I started this thread then - *Best way* to honour that event. Just curious granny. Are you from the US? Just wondering because of how you spelled "honour" or if that's the way you spell honor in the States. I always think twice when writing on boards because in NZ, we use British English which retains the "u" in words like colour or favourite (which is a word I use a lot in this forum!) as well as "s"'s rather than "z"'s like in organisation. I have really clear memories of All Hell Breaks Loose, as it came to us a little delayed and more so around the time of September 11, 2001 - or September 12th as it was over here. It's a key moment in time, when I was 13 (I am now 28) and remember being able to lose myself in a fantasy tv show to get away from what was really happening in the real world. Charmed was a TV show that crossed over 2 decades and 2 millenniums and All Hell Breaks Loose and Charmed Again makes me remember the tone and mood of shock and loss reminiscent of the dreadful events that happened that year. I hope this isn't a downer post because it's not supposed to be. All Hell Breaks Loose and Charmed Again will always hold a special place in my heart because of the quality of the episodes and the social events that occurred around it - most notably the heroism and the united force that brings people together when terrible and sad things happen - making you remember how very fortunate we all are. Oh yes I often have that issue on forums. When spelling of words, I often think twice but then I think well this forum isnt just filled with people in the US. Sometimes It comes naturally I forget to and not. Favorite seems to me the one word I do spell the American way online. And No Im *not* from the States, but I have lived over in the states for quite some time in the past before I separated from my ex husband who *Is* American. So I can go back and forth between the spelling easily. So excuse me - *if* I remember it the American way or my way. Im glad you have auch fond memories of the episode. I have such fond ones with my family.
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Granny Charmed
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Post by Granny Charmed on May 16, 2016 20:17:28 GMT -5
Im so happy to see you loved my criteria. ☺ We should start something up and go through all the episodes reviewing like this with a charmed episode of the week like thing. That would be *so* much fun. Plus *we could* if anyones good at maths add up all our criteria gradings for a *Charmed Cafe* official episode rating. Oh I so agree with you. Wasnt that ending perfect. My daughter was going to me when we first watched - that cant be the end, Is the show ended". My granddaughter was just in shocked and thought that Phoebe was the only sister left standing - and her sisters are dead and gone. Expecting Phoebe to turn into an evil witch and work for the source now. Great grades. ☺ I would sincerely suggest you copy the link to this thread and send it to AW and suggest your criteria be part of the new Cafe. Doing it for each episode (well, at least the ones members are willing to watch - we shouldn't force people to watch ones they don't want to watch...) would be great fun and very informative as to what's important about Charmed to each member. Thank you for the suggestions. You make a strong *case* with that. You would loose me when we get to season 6 - thats for sure. Good point we wouldnt want to force our cafe to take part in episodes they dont want to watch. We *do* have plenty of favorite episode thread polls we can use as a reference to see what our charmed cafe likes.
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Post by West on May 16, 2016 20:34:42 GMT -5
I would sincerely suggest you copy the link to this thread and send it to AW and suggest your criteria be part of the new Cafe. Doing it for each episode (well, at least the ones members are willing to watch - we shouldn't force people to watch ones they don't want to watch...) would be great fun and very informative as to what's important about Charmed to each member. Thank you for the suggestions. You make a strong *case* with that. You would loose me when we get to season 6 - thats for sure. Good point we wouldnt want to force our cafe to take part in episodes they dont want to watch. We *do* have plenty of favorite episode thread polls wr can use as a reference to see what our charmed cafe likes. Yes do that suggestion grannycharmed. I myself had that same thinking seeing this thread and Forever Charmed. It would be a nice way to generate discussions and use your brilliant criteria.
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Granny Charmed
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Post by Granny Charmed on May 16, 2016 20:38:20 GMT -5
Thank you for the suggestions. You make a strong *case* with that. You would loose me when we get to season 6 - thats for sure. Good point we wouldnt want to force our cafe to take part in episodes they dont want to watch. We *do* have plenty of favorite episode thread polls wr can use as a reference to see what our charmed cafe likes. Yes do that suggestion grannycharmed. I myself had that same thinking seeing this thread and Forever Charmed. It would be a nice way to generate discussions and use your brilliant criteria. Thank you dear. Seems im *not* alone in it. What does everyone else here think? Now lets get back on track dears with our discussions and I cant wait see others use my criteria to rate this episode and others.
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Post by West on May 16, 2016 20:53:36 GMT -5
Using grannycharmeds brilliant criteria.
A. Writing - 3/10
A fair effort by Kern. But this script was all over the place. He went big but it felt so put together and well its not as great as I once thought.
B. Directing - 10/10
Shannen did so great, enough said.
C. Acting - 10/10
Fantastic!
D. Logic - 1/10
The chatacters felt so out of character at times. Prue and Piper going into the streets to battle a demon. OMG seriously.
Prue using her powers on innocents. Why didnt she just run them over with her car, and the public would see Piper is shot. Just scream my sister was shot and move idoits.
E. Episode ending/Impact - 9/10
I sat there in shock and even after it ended frozen at what just happened.
To think all of this impact changed to a brilliant storyline going into season 4. But fanfiction had donr a number on the what if.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2016 0:06:09 GMT -5
I spell those words the same way, with the "u" in them, because I'm Canadian. I used to wonder why Spell Check would always mark them as misspelled, before I realized that Spell Check is programmed for the U.S. spellings of those words (no "u"). I even wrote this thread about the topic.
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Aug 4, 2016 23:38:19 GMT -5
I would have given this episode a "B". I don't think it was as bad as many believe. I've seen a lot worse.
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Post by imdb lives on on Feb 15, 2017 15:37:07 GMT -5
Compared to later episodes it was an A. Some eps very very unwatchable even with All Hell Breaks Looses problems
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Aaeiyn
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✨The Amazing Phoebe✨
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Post by Aaeiyn on Aug 22, 2021 14:03:30 GMT -5
Absolute rubbish - would resist watching it, again. I just can't stand that episode. I skip it, during my re-watches. As much crap people give S7 and S8, their finales were miles better.
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