Conspiracy theory: Why Prue is alive in 2009

[cyma]

Found this on IMDB. The reason Prue was alive and there was no "Return to Past Spell" in the Book:

I know this isn't the case but it just makes sense so I'm putting my theory out there.

When the original charmed ones went to the future to save Phoebe, both Piper and Prue saw that their future selves had cast the "go back to the past spell". Both the future and past spells were able to be cast only once regardless of time and space.

Isn't it a neat little theory to think that Prue was alive in the future because the Morality Bites versions of Prue, Piper and Phoebe cast the "go back in time" spell to save Prue or at least to reverse the damage done by them being exposed in All Hell Breaks Loose?

So technically the fact that the Charmed ones traveled to the future to save Phoebe was at the cost of Prue seeing as they fast forwarded time and allowed the "go back in time" spell to be cast its one and final time.

Reply by another poster:

Doc Brown in Back to the Future Part II explained it perfectly how it works with time travel and what happens to the future, when you make changes in the past: You create an alternate timeline.

When they traveled back from 2009 to their own time in Morality Bites and decided not to make that dog poop fly on Nathaniel Pratt's shoes, there the timeline changed completely for all 3 of them. They created an alternate timeline, where what they experienced in 2009 was not going to happen, which then also turned out would be a future where Prue is dead.

So in theory to save Prue, they would have to do it in the past: Travel back from the new created future to a point before they travelled to 2009, stop them selves from making the dog poop fly on Nathaniel Pratt's shoes and give them selves a note, telling specificly the day of Prue's death, so they can avoid Prue's death on the day it is suppose to happen.

But then the future conundrum: Paige, Phoebe and Piper.
You will now see their future versions fading out of existence, because the future has been completely changed. The timetravel actually never took place in this new timeline, because Piper and Phoebe does not have to travel back in time any more to save Prue, because she already is safe, saved by their future selves from the alternate timeline.

Paige, she now never met her sisters, because it was Prue's death who lead her to Piper and Phoebe. She is now completely unaware that she actually has 3 sisters out there.

It is now up to Prue, Piper and Phoebe to seek out their half sister, if they want to meet her.

More replies:

I think the dog poop though only saved Phoebe. Shax could've attacked regardless resulting to the same chain of events (it was only a year later so their change to their timeline wouldn't still be really apparent).

I know I'm beating a dead horse but I would rather watch the Morality Bites timeline of Prue, Piper and Phoebe than the Charmed Again timeline of Piper, Phoebe and Paige.

Interesting post though. Time and space can sure get confusing sometimes. Also, is it ever explained or suggested why future Prue, Piper and Phoebe cast the "go to the past" spell?

Thats what the note was for, changing the event who leads to the death of Prue.
Marty used the same thing in 1955 to save the life of Doc Brown in 1985.

There was once used a timetravel spell, that was on That 70s Episode, but i dont recall Prue, Piper and Phoebe ever using it again to make all 3 of them travel thrue time, back or forth.
There was some time traveling done in these season 1-3 episodes:

That 70s Episode. All 3 of them, spell used
Morality Bites. All 3 of them, done by the Elders
Pardon my Past. Only Phoebe, spell used
All Halliwell's Eve. All 3 of them, done by the Elders
The Good, the Bad and the Cursed. Prue & Cole, done by shimmering (Cole)

Which note are you talking about?

Already explained in my first message under this topic. Its about changing the future, by traveling back in time and there giving a warning note to the person who is going to die, to watch out.
Its what you know from Back to the Future about Marty's note writen in 1955, who saves Doc Browns life in 1985.
That story taken over to Charmed about saving the life of Prue, so she does not have to die in All Hell Breaks Loose.

We are talking theoretical time travel, that might just have saved the life of Prue. An interesting concept.

[ljones]

Paige, she now never met her sisters, because it was Prue's death who lead her to Piper and Phoebe.


Wasn't Paige aware of her sisters' existence some time before Prue's death?

[Astral Vision]

Yes, she did know of their existence prior to Prue's death. From what Paige says in the season four premiere, it suggests that she visited P3 (obviously offscreen) a lot during the year that season three took place, because she thought they were her family. However Paige tells Shane that she can't just go up to them and say 'Hi, do you think we're related?' (I cannot recall her exact wording offhand). Each time in 'Charmed Again Part One' when she does come face to face with Piper and Phoebe, Paige is never the one who steps forward to let them know that she thinks she's their sister. Therefore, even if Prue didn't die, I doubt Paige would have ever had gotten around to telling them her suspicions.

All Prue's death did was cause Piper and Phoebe to find out about Paige's existence and therefore for them to approach her. Therefore, it's very likely that if Prue never died, Paige would have never met her sisters.

[isaiah]

It doesn't matter all that matters is prue alive and with her sisters again thats all thats matters right?

[meganhalliwell]

I'm with Isaiah ? I just don't care about Paige ? love Prue too much..

[Deleted]

Well, in the "Morality Bites" timeline, the sisters went down a darker path of personal gain, so they probably never found themselves the targets of the Source, thus no Shax blasting anybody through the wall.  In fact, the Source was probably never even vanquished in that timeline.

Interesting how the "main" timeline ended up playing out opposite in most ways from what we saw in "Morality Bites."  Instead of Phoebe dying in 2009, Prue died in 2001.  And, instead of Piper and (whitelighter) Leo being divorced with a daughter, Piper and (mortal) Leo stayed together and had sons.  (Melinda appeared to be around the same age Wyatt would've been in 2009, if not slightly older.  They probably share the same birthday.  And, there's no evidence that Chris or a female version of him ever existed in the "Morality Bites" timeline; Melinda was an only child.)

[Deleted]

However Paige tells Shane that she can't just go up to them and say 'Hi, do you think we're related?' (I cannot recall her exact wording offhand). Each time in 'Charmed Again Part One' when she does come face to face with Piper and Phoebe, Paige is never the one who steps forward to let them know that she thinks she's their sister. Therefore, even if Prue didn't die, I doubt Paige would have ever had gotten around to telling them her suspicions.

They could have done a DNA test.

[Esmeralda]

Jul 4, 2015 21:52:41 GMT -5 @bettynewbie said:

Well, in the "Morality Bites" timeline, the sisters went down a darker path of personal gain, so they probably never found themselves the targets of the Source, thus no Shax blasting anybody through the wall.  In fact, the Source was probably never even vanquished in that timeline.

Interesting how the "main" timeline ended up playing out opposite in most ways from what we saw in "Morality Bites."  Instead of Phoebe dying in 2009, Prue died in 2001.  And, instead of Piper and (whitelighter) Leo being divorced with a daughter, Piper and (mortal) Leo stayed together and had sons.  (Melinda appeared to be around the same age Wyatt would've been in 2009, if not slightly older.  They probably share the same birthday.  And, there's no evidence that Chris or a female version of him ever existed in the "Morality Bites" timeline; Melinda was an only child.)

Despite the comics (and "Morality Bites Back" is still my all-time favorite issue, just like "Morality Bites" is still my favorite episode, despite the fact that I wish it had never aired, since it's what led me to hating Phoebe and Paige in Season Six so much), I don't believe that the Morality Bites universe is real. I think it was something of the Elders' making, taken from what they knew would get to each sister the most in hopes that they'd learn their lesson. Naturally they didn't - they forgot it just a few episodes later as once more they punished the guilty rather than protecting those innocent of magic from magic, leading to Prue's death. That also explains all of the inconsistencies.

That, of course, is true if you follow the alternate-universe spin-off known as Charmed 4-8, which has a lot more inconsistencies than the Morality Bites future. I think in the *real* world, Prue survived, Piper and Leo only had Melinda, Phoebe was never a media star, and Paige, Wyatt, Chris, all of Phoebe's slampieces, along with Billie and Christy never existed.

[Deleted]

Jul 5, 2015 9:32:58 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

Despite the comics (and "Morality Bites Back" is still my all-time favorite issue, just like "Morality Bites" is still my favorite episode, despite the fact that I wish it had never aired, since it's what led me to hating Phoebe and Paige in Season Six so much), I don't believe that the Morality Bites universe is real. I think it was something of the Elders' making, taken from what they knew would get to each sister the most in hopes that they'd learn their lesson.

Since the comics aren't canon, that's a perfectly valid headcanon. I could see the Elders being devious enough to do that.

Jul 5, 2015 9:32:58 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

Naturally they didn't - they forgot it just a few episodes later as once more they punished the guilty rather than protecting those innocent of magic from magic, leading to Prue's death. That also explains all of the inconsistencies.

That's actually very true. None of that would've ever happened had Prue and Piper not stupidly gone outside after Shax.

As much as fans tend to see "All Hell Breaks Loose" as the show's best episode, the episode actually has A LOT of problems. They never explained why the Source wanted Dr. Griffiths dead, and the sisters all acted like total morons. To be honest, I think the only reason this episode is so loved is because it's Prue's last episode ever (which it originally wasn't going to be, since Shannen wasn't fired until after it aired). Looking back, I think "Deja Vu All Over Again" was a stronger season finale.

Jul 5, 2015 9:32:58 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

That, of course, is true if you follow the alternate-universe spin-off known as Charmed 4-8, which has a lot more inconsistencies than the Morality Bites future. I think in the *real* world, Prue survived, Piper and Leo only had Melinda, Phoebe was never a media star, and Paige, Wyatt, Chris, all of Phoebe's slampieces, along with Billie and Christy never existed.

If only the show had ended at Season 3 or 4 (if Prue stayed). The later seasons really killed the show's credibility.

[Esmeralda]

Jul 5, 2015 10:37:07 GMT -5 @bettynewbie said:

Jul 5, 2015 9:32:58 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

Despite the comics (and "Morality Bites Back" is still my all-time favorite issue, just like "Morality Bites" is still my favorite episode, despite the fact that I wish it had never aired, since it's what led me to hating Phoebe and Paige in Season Six so much), I don't believe that the Morality Bites universe is real. I think it was something of the Elders' making, taken from what they knew would get to each sister the most in hopes that they'd learn their lesson.

Since the comics aren't canon, that's a perfectly valid headcanon. I could see the Elders being devious enough to do that.

I don’t count it as devious, especially because it was the THEY of S1-2 who came up with it, and not Kern’s demonic Elders of S3-8. THEY were Good and looked out for the greatest good without any stupid Grand Design in the way (another one of Kern’s stupid ideas - thank God, Paul Ruditis got rid of it!  All part of why most of Season 9 is my head-canon - outside of all the kids, of course - Paul Ruditis truly righted most of Kern's wrongs.  Too bad Pat Shand is coming up with so many of his own in Season 10.  But then that series is still going.  I may change my mind when I see how it all works out), which is what THEY were doing here. Most fans didn’t like THEM because THEY didn’t let Piper do what she wanted to. But looking back, I can see that THEY were always right while Piper was always thinking just about Piper.

Naturally they didn't - they forgot it just a few episodes later as once more they punished the guilty rather than protecting those innocent of magic from magic, leading to Prue's death. That also explains all of the inconsistencies.

That's actually very true. None of that would've ever happened had Prue and Piper not stupidly gone outside after Shax.

Exactly so, and I believe it was that “Morality Bites” future that led them into thinking they were invincible, leading to Prue’s death, and Piper’s had time not been turned back. That stupidity is all part of why “All Hell Breaks Loose” wouldn’t even make my Top 50 favorite episodes.

As much as fans tend to see "All Hell Breaks Loose" as the show's best episode, the episode actually has A LOT of problems. They never explained why the Source wanted Dr. Griffiths dead, and the sisters all acted like total morons. To be honest, I think the only reason this episode is so loved is because it's Prue's last episode ever (which it originally wasn't going to be, since Shannen wasn't fired until after it aired). Looking back, I think "Deja Vu All Over Again" was a stronger season finale.

Agreed totally, and I'd add “Something Wicca This Way Goes?” to the list, if you take the one that would’ve been aired if it would’ve been the series finale as it should’ve been, when the last line heard would’ve been Phoebe saying “Here we go!”

I say that because I used to read the spoilers at thecharmedcafe.com and that was the last line then. Then after the show was renewed, they added a line: “We won’t tell you the rest of the story so we don’t ruin the wonderful surprise,” or words to those effect.

Oh, I was *so* excited to see what it was. But then when I found it was just the four of them glamouring, leaving the boys to be raised by their unmagical grandfather while they went off and used magic for personal gain to their heart’s content, it made me totally sick to my stomach.

Yes, they said they were going to prepare it for the next generation, but if they were indeed leaving, as it seemed, it would be without Wyatt and Chris – when we saw the sisters saying good-bye to the boys and giving everything to Victor, rather than doing it because they thought they were going to die, they were doing it [via a complete total cheat – absolutely no way should Prue have been able to teach Leo to teach the Charmed Ones how to not only astrally project (anyone can do that), but cast spells (in true astral projection, no one can see you and all you can do is observe) is like Piper teaching Leo how to teach Phoebe to manipulate molecules or Paige teaching Piper how to orb or Phoebe teaching Paige how to…how to...well, force premonitions so she would know who her baby-daddy would be.] they were truly saying good-bye to them, so they wouldn’t be caught.

An episode that had me crying through most of it (and would’ve beat “Morality Bites” as my favorite) is again one of my least-favorites like most of the season finales and season premieres ("Something Wicca This Way Comes", "Deja vu All Over Again", "Witch Trial" and "Charmed Again, Part One" (not Part Two) are the only ones I like. 

That, of course, is true if you follow the alternate-universe spin-off known as Charmed 4-8, which has a lot more inconsistencies than the Morality Bites future. I think in the *real* world, Prue survived, Piper and Leo only had Melinda, Phoebe was never a media star, and Paige, Wyatt, Chris, all of Phoebe's slampieces, along with Billie and Christy never existed.

If only the show had ended at Season 3 or 4 (if Prue stayed). The later seasons really killed the show's credibility.

Amen! It’s why I call it “The Perils of Poor, Poor Pitiful Piper” aka “PhoeME and Her Fantasy Men” aka “Two Witches Plus One Living Whitelighter Equals The Power of Three???”

[adzpower]

The whole conundrum of the going forward in time, going back in time always confused me. We saw in That 70's Episode that witches can write spells to go back in time.
We're talking the charmed ones here, the most powerful good witches of all time, I fail to believe that the ultra powerful Prue, Piper and Phoebe weren't able to write a spell for that.

[Deleted]

Jul 5, 2015 12:00:02 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

I don’t count it as devious, especially because it was the THEY of S1-2 who came up with it, and not Kern’s demonic Elders of S3-8. THEY were Good and looked out for the greatest good without any stupid Grand Design in the way (another one of Kern’s stupid ideas - thank God, Paul Ruditis got rid of it!  All part of why most of Season 9 is my head-canon - outside of all the kids, of course - Paul Ruditis truly righted most of Kern's wrongs.  Too bad Pat Shand is coming up with so many of his own in Season 10.  But then that series is still going.  I may change my mind when I see how it all works out), which is what THEY were doing here. Most fans didn’t like THEM because THEY didn’t let Piper do what she wanted to. But looking back, I can see that THEY were always right while Piper was always thinking just about Piper.

Ah, yes, the S1-2 Elders, aka. the "Founders." Definitely preferred them when they were just a mysterious, unseen entity of good.

Jul 5, 2015 12:00:02 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

Exactly so, and I believe it was that “Morality Bites” future that led them into thinking they were invincible, leading to Prue’s death, and Piper’s had time not been turned back. That stupidity is all part of why “All Hell Breaks Loose” wouldn’t even make my Top 50 favorite episodes.

Yeah, Prue and Piper wrongly assumed that they would both, at least, live to 2009, so they both became extremely reckless (especially in Season 3). That attitude is what got Prue killed.

Of course, later on, death became so completely meaningless that it hardly mattered whenever Piper (or any of the sisters) died. You always knew that they would instantly be brought back by the end of the episode, ruining all suspense and emotional impact.

Jul 5, 2015 12:00:02 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

Agreed totally, and I'd add “Something Wicca This Way Goes?” to the list, if you take the one that would’ve been aired if it would’ve been the series finale as it should’ve been, when the last line heard would’ve been Phoebe saying “Here we go!”

I say that because I used to read the spoilers at thecharmedcafe.com and that was the last line then. Then after the show was renewed, they added a line: “We won’t tell you the rest of the story so we don’t ruin the wonderful surprise,” or words to those effect.

Oh, I was *so* excited to see what it was. But then when I found it was just the four of them glamouring, leaving the boys to be raised by their

Yes, they said they were going to prepare it for the next generation, but if they were indeed leaving, as it seemed, it would be without Wyatt and Chris – when we saw the sisters saying good-bye to the boys and giving everything to Victor, rather than doing it because they thought they were going to die, they were doing it [via a complete total cheat – absolutely no way should Prue have been able to teach Leo to teach the Charmed Ones how to not only astrally project (anyone can do that), but cast spells (in true astral projection, no one can see you and all you can do is observe) is like Piper teaching Leo how to teach Phoebe to manipulate molecules or Paige teaching Piper how to orb or Phoebe teaching Paige how to…how to...well, force premonitions so she would know who her baby-daddy would be.] they were truly saying good-bye to them, so they wouldn’t be caught.

An episode that had me crying through most of it (and would’ve beat “Morality Bites” as my favorite) is again one of my least-favorites like most of the season finales and season premieres ("Something Wicca This Way Comes", "Deja vu All Over Again", "Witch Trial" and "Charmed Again, Part One" (not Part Two) are the only ones I like.

I agree that "Something Wicca This Way Goes" was an excellent finale (until the very end). Of course, the astral projection/secret identities nonsense was a hasty rewrite that was done after the WB renewed the show at the 11th hour (something many of us now wish that they hadn't done).

[Esmeralda]

Jul 5, 2015 15:55:05 GMT -5 @bettynewbie said:

Jul 5, 2015 12:00:02 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

I don’t count it as devious, especially because it was the THEY of S1-2 who came up with it, and not Kern’s demonic Elders of S3-8. THEY were Good and looked out for the greatest good without any stupid Grand Design in the way (another one of Kern’s stupid ideas - thank God, Paul Ruditis got rid of it!  All part of why most of Season 9 is my head-canon - outside of all the kids, of course - Paul Ruditis truly righted most of Kern's wrongs.  Too bad Pat Shand is coming up with so many of his own in Season 10.  But then that series is still going.  I may change my mind when I see how it all works out), which is what THEY were doing here. Most fans didn’t like THEM because THEY didn’t let Piper do what she wanted to. But looking back, I can see that THEY were always right while Piper was always thinking just about Piper.

Ah, yes, the S1-2 Elders, aka. the "Founders." Definitely preferred them when they were just a mysterious, unseen entity of good.

Agreed totally. Just like we never should’ve seen the Source’s face.

Exactly so, and I believe it was that “Morality Bites” future that led them into thinking they were invincible, leading to Prue’s death, and Piper’s had time not been turned back. That stupidity is all part of why “All Hell Breaks Loose” wouldn’t even make my Top 50 favorite episodes.

Yeah, Prue and Piper wrongly assumed that they would both, at least, live to 2009, so they both became extremely reckless (especially in Season 3). That attitude is what got Prue killed.

Of course, later on, death became so completely meaningless that it hardly mattered whenever Piper (or any of the sisters) died. You always knew that they would instantly be brought back by the end of the episode, ruining all suspense and emotional impact.

Also completely true. I mean in “Kill Billie, Vol. 2”, even Piper knew that Phoebe wouldn’t stay dead.

Agreed totally, and I'd add “Something Wicca This Way Goes?” to the list, if you take the one that would’ve been aired if it would’ve been the series finale as it should’ve been, when the last line heard would’ve been Phoebe saying “Here we go!”

I say that because I used to read the spoilers at thecharmedcafe.com and that was the last line then. Then after the show was renewed, they added a line: “We won’t tell you the rest of the story so we don’t ruin the wonderful surprise,” or words to those effect.

Oh, I was *so* excited to see what it was. But then when I found it was just the four of them glamouring, leaving the boys to be raised by their while non-magical grandfather as they went off and used magic for personal gain to their heart’s content, it made me totally sick to my stomach.

Yes, they said they were going to prepare it for the next generation, but if they were indeed leaving, as it seemed, it would be without Wyatt and Chris – when we saw the sisters saying good-bye to the boys and giving everything to Victor, rather than doing it because they thought they were going to die, they were doing it [via a complete total cheat – absolutely no way should Prue have been able to teach Leo to teach the Charmed Ones how to not only astrally project (anyone can do that), but cast spells (in true astral projection, no one can see you and all you can do is observe) is like Piper teaching Leo how to teach Phoebe to manipulate molecules or Paige teaching Piper how to orb or Phoebe teaching Paige how to…how to...well, force premonitions so she would know who her baby-daddy would be.] they were truly saying good-bye to them, so they wouldn’t be caught.

An episode that had me crying through most of it (and would’ve beat “Morality Bites” as my favorite) is again one of my least-favorites like most of the season finales and season premieres ("Something Wicca This Way Comes", "Deja vu All Over Again", "Witch Trial" and "Charmed Again, Part One" (not Part Two) are the only ones I like.

I agree that "Something Wicca This Way Goes" was an excellent finale (until the very end). Of course, the astral projection/secret identities nonsense was a hasty rewrite that was done after the WB renewed the show at the 11th hour (something many of us now wish that they hadn't done).

LOL, it’s so funny how so often what the fans wished for blew up in their faces. They wanted Leo to stay after Season One. We got stuck with Poor, Poor Pitiful Piper, not to mention witchlighters who made having a whitelighter for a father more important than having a Charmed One for a mother, since had Leo stayed away after Season One like he was supposed to, we never would’ve met Sam.

They wanted Cole to stay after Season Three like he was supposed to. We got stuck with Cole the Wimpy Mortal, the Source and the Stalker, along with PhoeME the Queen of the Underworld and the Media Queen.

They wanted to find out more about the magical community. We got stuck with Season Five.

They wanted a tip of the cap to Prue in the series finale. We got stuck with them stealing her astral projection. (In that case, you’re wrong. I remember that being part of the spoiler, but I didn’t realize what it meant until months later when I got enough stomach to re-read the spoiler.  So Kern always did mean for them to use Prue’s astral projection to get out of that mess and have them walking off, leaving the boys behind them – we just wouldn’t know it unless somehow Charmed continued, but it would’ve led to all sorts of speculation, the same way it would've if Charmed had ended when I think it did – when Shax said, “The end”.)

They wanted an eighth season. You know what we got stuck with…

It is SO the infamous "Be careful what you wish for - you just might get it."

The funniest part of the whole thing is I don't really mind all of the screwups.  Had there not been as many, we wouldn't have as much to talk about and this board probably would've died years ago, besides the screwups are what led to my favorite fanfics.

[Deleted]

Jul 5, 2015 16:47:57 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

LOL, it’s so funny how so often what the fans wished for blew up in their faces. They wanted Leo to stay after Season One. We got stuck with Poor, Poor Pitiful Piper, not to mention witchlighters who made having a whitelighter for a father more important than having a Charmed One for a mother, since had Leo stayed away after Season One like he was supposed to, we never would’ve met Sam.

They wanted Cole to stay after Season Three like he was supposed to. We got stuck with Cole the Wimpy Mortal, the Source and the Stalker, along with PhoeME the Queen of the Underworld and the Media Queen.

They wanted to find out more about the magical community. We got stuck with Season Five.

They wanted a tip of the cap to Prue in the series finale. We got stuck with them stealing her astral projection. (In that case, you’re wrong. I remember that being part of the spoiler, but I didn’t realize what it meant until months later when I got enough stomach to re-read the spoiler.  So Kern always did mean for them to use Prue’s astral projection to get out of that mess and have them walking off, leaving the boys behind them – we just wouldn’t know it unless somehow Charmed continued, but it would’ve led to all sorts of speculation, the same way it would've if Charmed had ended when I think it did – when Shax said, “The end”.)

They wanted an eighth season. You know what we got stuck with…

It is SO the infamous "Be careful what you wish for - you just might get it."

The funniest part of the whole thing is I don't really mind all of the screwups.  Had there not been as many, we wouldn't have as much to talk about and this board probably would've died years ago, besides the screwups are what led to my favorite fanfics.

I guess that goes to show that maybe what the fans wanted wasn't always best for the show, and there's a reason that fans are fans and not writers or producers.  For example, as much as I supported the Charmed Sons idea back in the day, looking back, I'm kind of glad that a spinoff was never made, because it probably would've ended up being horrible and not at all what I had in mind for TCS.  (Destined, despite being incomplete, set a high bar that I doubt an official spinoff would've ever lived up to, IMO.)

[Esmeralda]

Jul 5, 2015 19:21:15 GMT -5 @bettynewbie said:

Jul 5, 2015 16:47:57 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

LOL, it’s so funny how so often what the fans wished for blew up in their faces. They wanted Leo to stay after Season One. We got stuck with Poor, Poor Pitiful Piper, not to mention witchlighters who made having a whitelighter for a father more important than having a Charmed One for a mother, since had Leo stayed away after Season One like he was supposed to, we never would’ve met Sam.

They wanted Cole to stay after Season Three like he was supposed to. We got stuck with Cole the Wimpy Mortal, the Source and the Stalker, along with PhoeME the Queen of the Underworld and the Media Queen.

They wanted to find out more about the magical community. We got stuck with Season Five.

They wanted a tip of the cap to Prue in the series finale. We got stuck with them stealing her astral projection. (In that case, you’re wrong. I remember that being part of the spoiler, but I didn’t realize what it meant until months later when I got enough stomach to re-read the spoiler.  So Kern always did mean for them to use Prue’s astral projection to get out of that mess and have them walking off, leaving the boys behind them – we just wouldn’t know it unless somehow Charmed continued, but it would’ve led to all sorts of speculation, the same way it would've if Charmed had ended when I think it did – when Shax said, “The end”.)

They wanted an eighth season. You know what we got stuck with…

It is SO the infamous "Be careful what you wish for - you just might get it."

The funniest part of the whole thing is I don't really mind all of the screwups.  Had there not been as many, we wouldn't have as much to talk about and this board probably would've died years ago, besides the screwups are what led to my favorite fanfics.

I guess that goes to show that maybe what the fans wanted wasn't always best for the show, and there's a reason that fans are fans and not writers or producers.

Exactly so.

For example, as much as I supported the Charmed Sons idea back in the day, looking back, I'm kind of glad that a spinoff was never made, because it probably would've ended up being horrible and not at all what I had in mind for TCS.  (Destined, despite being incomplete, set a high bar that I doubt an official spinoff would've ever lived up to, IMO.)

Too true. Now had they been smart and held a contest to find a fan who could properly write the boys and had either Paul Ruditis or Twin_Swords (who stopped working on Destined because she was pregnant with twins, but who is also a screenwriter, which is why her "scripts" felt so professional) won that contest (and if fans could accept someone other than Drew Fuller playing Chris, since according to his website, he didn't want to be trapped in the role), it could've done well....as long as Brad Kern was not the executive producer.

[Deleted]

as long as Brad Kern was not the executive producer

And, THAT was the biggest problem, right there.  Love him or loathe him, any spinoff would've had to have happened through him, and he had zero interest in the TCS idea.  That's why he dropped the Chris storyline completely without closure after Season 6, and that's why when the WB commissioned a spinoff, he gave them mermaids and Billie instead.  It's probably also why he stuck that awful flash-forward into the end of "Forever Crap."  After his spinoff ideas failed, he wanted to shut the book on Charmed for good.

[Esmeralda]

Jul 5, 2015 19:40:44 GMT -5 @bettynewbie said:

as long as Brad Kern was not the executive producer

And, THAT was the biggest problem, right there.  Love him or loathe him, any spinoff would've had to have happened through him, and he had zero interest in the TCS idea.  That's why he dropped the Chris storyline completely without closure after Season 6, and that's why when the WB commissioned a spinoff, he gave them mermaids and Billie instead.  It's probably also why he stuck that awful flash-forward into the end of "Forever Crap."  After his spinoff ideas failed, he wanted to shut the book on Charmed for good.

Sorry, I’m going to have to disagree with you there, just like this reminded me that I myself was wrong. This is from The Book of Three, Vol 1, which was published in 2004, page 205, part of an interview with E. Duke Vincent and Aaron Spelling:

BO3: What are some of the highlights from the show?

EDV: The pickups! No, this year I think we had one of them. We opened the season this year with the episode we did about the mermaids. I gotta tell you the letters and the Internet exploded. I thought it was a good episode, but I didn’t realize that the audience would react that big.

AS: And as just an observer, I’ve got to tell you, the audience acted like they’d never seen mermaids before.

EDV: The funny story is the network was so impressed, they called up Aaron, and Aaron called me and he said, “You’re never going to believe the call I got. They want us to do a series about mermaids!”

This was before Chris showed up; before Billie, before all of that, so I really don’t think Mermaid had much to do with Season Eight. I have a hunch The WB had as much to do with no Charmed Sons and instead wanting Billie the Thuperwitch for the spin-off as they did about this mermaid thing.

So I was wrong with what I said before. (And I'm one of the few fans who can admit when I'm wrong when I'm proven wrong.)

Rather than “No Brad Kern”, I should’ve said, “On another network.” I’ve come to believe that Brad Kern was just the hatchet man. He was for to The WB what Shax was for the Source.

[Deleted]

Jul 5, 2015 21:02:55 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

Sorry, I’m going to have to disagree with you there, just like this reminded me that I myself was wrong. This is from The Book of Three, Vol 1, which was published in 2004, page 205, part of an interview with E. Duke Vincent and Aaron Spelling:

BO3: What are some of the highlights from the show?

EDV: The pickups! No, this year I think we had one of them. We opened the season this year with the episode we did about the mermaids. I gotta tell you the letters and the Internet exploded. I thought it was a good episode, but I didn’t realize that the audience would react that big.

AS: And as just an observer, I’ve got to tell you, the audience acted like they’d never seen mermaids before.

EDV: The funny story is the network was so impressed, they called up Aaron, and Aaron called me and he said, “You’re never going to believe the call I got. They want us to do a series about mermaids!”

This was before Chris showed up; before Billie, before all of that, so I really don’t think Mermaid had much to do with Season Eight. I have a hunch The WB had as much to do with no Charmed Sons and instead wanting Billie the Thuperwitch for the spin-off as they did about this mermaid thing.

So I was wrong with what I said before. (And I'm one of the few fans who can admit when I'm wrong when I'm proven wrong.)

Rather than “No Brad Kern”, I should’ve said, “On another network.” I’ve come to believe that Brad Kern was just the hatchet man. He was for to The WB what Shax was for the Source.

I mentioned Mermaid because the pilot was filmed towards the end of Season 7 (around the time the TCS campaign started picking up) and would've been part of the WB's 2005-06 lineup.  It was Kern's first attempt at a Charmed spinoff, and when it failed, he moved onto Plan B, aka. Billie.

As for why "A Witch's Tail" was so allegedly popular, I can name two really big (and bouncy) reasons.

No question that the WB deserved a lot of the blame for what went down in the later seasons, but I think a lot of the handling of Chris' story and the TCS idea was a creative decision on Kern's part.  He clearly wasn't invested in the storyline to the same degree that the fans were, and when he was given the opportunity to pitch a Charmed spinoff later on, he opted for other characters.  The WB probably would've welcomed a show about two brothers fighting evil, seeing as they picked up a certain other show centered around that concept that same year.

[Deleted]

I mentioned Mermaid because the pilot was filmed towards the end of Season 7 (around the time the TCS campaign started picking up) and would've been part of the WB's 2005-06 lineup. It was Kern's first attempt at a Charmed spinoff, and when it failed, he moved onto Plan B, aka. Billie.

It must have been REALLY bad, because no trace of it seems to exist.  Nothing has turned up on YouTube and a Google search just brings out pictures of Alyssa in her mermaid costume. 

Kern's Wikipedia entry and IMDB page make no references to the Mermaid pilot at all.

[Esmeralda]

Jul 5, 2015 23:43:28 GMT -5 @bettynewbie said:

Jul 5, 2015 21:02:55 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

Sorry, I’m going to have to disagree with you there, just like this reminded me that I myself was wrong. This is from The Book of Three, Vol 1, which was published in 2004, page 205, part of an interview with E. Duke Vincent and Aaron Spelling:

This was before Chris showed up; before Billie, before all of that, so I really don’t think Mermaid had much to do with Season Eight. I have a hunch The WB had as much to do with no Charmed Sons and instead wanting Billie the Thuperwitch for the spin-off as they did about this mermaid thing.

So I was wrong with what I said before. (And I'm one of the few fans who can admit when I'm wrong when I'm proven wrong.)

Rather than “No Brad Kern”, I should’ve said, “On another network.” I’ve come to believe that Brad Kern was just the hatchet man. He was for to The WB what Shax was for the Source.

I mentioned Mermaid because the pilot was filmed towards the end of Season 7 (around the time the TCS campaign started picking up) and would've been part of the WB's 2005-06 lineup.  It was Kern's first attempt at a Charmed spinoff, and when it failed, he moved onto Plan B, aka. Billie.

As for why "A Witch's Tail" was so allegedly popular, I can name two really big (and bouncy) reasons.

No question that the WB deserved a lot of the blame for what went down in the later seasons, but I think a lot of the handling of Chris' story and the TCS idea was a creative decision on Kern's part.  He clearly wasn't invested in the storyline to the same degree that the fans were, and when he was given the opportunity to pitch a Charmed spinoff later on, he opted for other characters.  The WB probably would've welcomed a show about two brothers fighting evil, seeing as they picked up a certain other show centered around that concept that same year.

See, I truly don't think so. I really think you're blaming the wrong person.

If The WB wanted The Charmed Sons (and if Drew Fuller wanted to be part of it), they would've gotten it, just like they would've gotten Mermaid if , according to other sites, it was the joining of the TheWB and UPN, cutting the budget that prevented Mermaid from being aired, and that again would be the higher ups, not Brad Kern, and done after Charmed was ended. TheWB wanted jiggle and what all Charmed Sons fans wanted was nothing like that.

Had The Charmed Sons been aired, it would've been nothing like "Destined" and everything like Phoebe in S5-8 and Billie in S8, but from a male point of view with plenty of female demons dressed in leather jumping the boys. Thank God it never happened.

Again, you're blaming Shax for Prue's death, not the Source.

And since S6 was the most popular season during the latter years, I would say Brad Kern did something right even while he did something very badly.