Was Kira really evil?

[forbuss]

I was thinking about this while responding to another post. I don't think Kira was really evil - aka, she is the exception to the rule. Her powers were similar to Phoebes, only more advanced - and her powers are what made her want to be good.

What if Kira was always good? What if she was captured and trained as a young child/teen to serve evil? I think that this makes incredible sense. Out of all the "bad turned good" characters in Charmed, I think she was the most genuine being that wanted to be good - and was good, in my opinion. Her powers aren't innately good OR evil, and there is no evidence of her directly killing innocents in Charmed. She also longed for the world of "good" that she envisioned (and she gave Phoebe the same vision) - so maybe she saw a chance to get out of the evil world, and to join the good side.

We also don't know how old Kira is - she could very well be human, and her power advancement could be explained by the fact that she was captured by demons at a young age much like fire starters like Christie. This also explains why Phoebe was less advanced than her, because Kira would have had 10+ years more experience than Phoebe (I am assuming that they are around the same age in season 7).

What do you guys think? I love Kira, and regardless of Good/Evil, she is one of my favourite characters in Charmed - I also love her in Buffy

[Esmeralda]

Oh, what a great plotline that would've been!

It's why I'll always wish that the spin-off Kern wanted to put out and that Season Eight was actually the first season of this one - a demon who wanted to be mortal - and in this case, actually was! ESPECIALLY if they included her lover - Phoebe Halliwell as played by Alyssa Milano!

She would've made *such* a perfect replacement for the Charmed Ones as compared to Billie!

Such a shame that Charisma Carpenter was pregnant, the reason Kern got rid of her character.

[CharmedBOSthanh]

I liked Kira she was a good character her and Phoebe got on well cause of their shared powers they could understand each other. It was kind of sad how Kira died I would of liked to see that actor in more Charmed she was cool.

[forbuss]

Dec 4, 2013 7:46:51 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

Oh, what a great plotline that would've been!

It's why I'll always wish that the spin-off Kern wanted to put out and that Season Eight was actually the first season of this one - a demon who wanted to be mortal - and in this case, actually was! ESPECIALLY if they included her lover - Phoebe Halliwell as played by Alyssa Milano!

She would've made *such* a perfect replacement for the Charmed Ones as compared to Billie!

Such a shame that Charisma Carpenter was pregnant, the reason Kern got rid of her character.

She really would have! Charisma Carpenter is one of those people who really appeals to all ages. I actually didn't know she was pregnant until now, thanks for sharing!

And sorry - Kira was not human. I got too excited while writing this post and forgot that her whole deal with the Elders was that she would be made human, and she flamed when she was vanquished. This being said, I still believe that Kira was the *most* capable demon to become good. I think she was good - I guess we will just have to chalk it up to questionable writing, once again haha.

Kira and Drake, and their relationship with Phoebe was my favourite part of season 7.

[Chrisaholic]

True. Kira was a good addition in the beginning of S7 and Charisma has already had experience with the supernatural, hence her role in "Buffy" and "Angel". And I too would have preferred her to Billie in S8.

[ljones]

Dec 4, 2013 0:03:26 GMT -5 forbuss said:

I was thinking about this while responding to another post. I don't think Kira was really evil - aka, she is the exception to the rule. Her powers were similar to Phoebes, only more advanced - and her powers are what made her want to be good.

What if Kira was always good? What if she was captured and trained as a young child/teen to serve evil? I think that this makes incredible sense. Out of all the "bad turned good" characters in Charmed, I think she was the most genuine being that wanted to be good - and was good, in my opinion. Her powers aren't innately good OR evil, and there is no evidence of her directly killing innocents in Charmed. She also longed for the world of "good" that she envisioned (and she gave Phoebe the same vision) - so maybe she saw a chance to get out of the evil world, and to join the good side.

We also don't know how old Kira is - she could very well be human, and her power advancement could be explained by the fact that she was captured by demons at a young age much like fire starters like Christie. This also explains why Phoebe was less advanced than her, because Kira would have had 10+ years more experience than Phoebe (I am assuming that they are around the same age in season 7).

What do you guys think? I love Kira, and regardless of Good/Evil, she is one of my favourite characters in Charmed - I also love her in Buffy

This is why I wish the series had portrayed demons in an ambiguous manner like "BUFFY" and "REAPER" instead of as one-dimensional evil beings.

[forbuss]

I just had an idea about Kira! Assuming she didn't die:

The elders made Kira human, but she kept her powers. So in effect, she would be a witch. Then it could also give me what I have wanted for SO long, was another magical being for the sisters to have around them. One thing I loved about Buffy and I think was missing in Charmed.

[Darkhorse Christian]

Dec 4, 2013 7:46:51 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

Such a shame that Charisma Carpenter was pregnant, the reason Kern got rid of her character.

Forgot to correct this bit the last time I saw it and looked into the subject, just got reminded of it now. It wasn't Kern that tossed her character due to her being pregnant, it was Joss.

[Esmeralda]

Jan 10, 2015 13:33:18 GMT -5 Darkhorse Christian said:

Dec 4, 2013 7:46:51 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

Such a shame that Charisma Carpenter was pregnant, the reason Kern got rid of her character.

Forgot to correct this bit the last time I saw it and looked into the subject, just got reminded of it now. It wasn't Kern that tossed her character due to her being pregnant, it was Joss.

*nods* Gotcha. I could've sworn that this was the reason Kira didn't continue - that Kern didn't want a pregnant star - but it could've been from someone who read it wrong. Thanks for the correction. Do you have the link so I can correct the other places where I posted it wrong?

[Darkhorse Christian]

Jan 10, 2015 14:50:30 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

Jan 10, 2015 13:33:18 GMT -5 Darkhorse Christian said:

Forgot to correct this bit the last time I saw it and looked into the subject, just got reminded of it now. It wasn't Kern that tossed her character due to her being pregnant, it was Joss.

*nods* Gotcha. I could've sworn that this was the reason Kira didn't continue - that Kern didn't want a pregnant star - but it could've been from someone who read it wrong. Thanks for the correction. Do you have the link so I can correct the other places where I posted it wrong?

She talks about it here:



Also, she had her son Donovan in March 2003, which would mean that her pregnancy took place in 2002. 4th season Angel aired in the '02-03 period, whereas 7th season Charmed was '04-05. Timeline doesn't match for Kern to be the one who fired her for being pregnant.

[ljones]

I would say like many others, Kira had both good and evil within her.

[Deleted]

Well, she definitely wasn't human, otherwise she wouldn't have been asking the Elders to make her a human in the first place. However, it would've been a very good plot twist if she had been. It's funny how all the 'Seers' are amongst the most memorable/likeable demons on Charmed (The Seer, The Crone, Kyra) and they all show just how powerful Phoebe could've been had she not become obsessed with men and babies.

As to whether Kyra was Good or Evil, I guess she could well have been 'Neutral', which is perhaps why she of anyone else, received the premonition of the Avatars' coming (given that they are neutral too). I do wish they'd kept her on for longer in S7 and she could've helped the sisters stop Zankou.

And as for powers, well technically speaking no power is supposed to be innately Good or Evil, even though powers such as Shimmering and Energy Balls are portrayed as evil. 

[ljones]

I don't think the question was whether she was human or not. I think the question was whether she was good or evil.

[Deleted]

Dec 4, 2013 0:03:26 GMT -5 forbuss said:

I was thinking about this while responding to another post. I don't think Kira was really evil - aka, she is the exception to the rule. Her powers were similar to Phoebes, only more advanced - and her powers are what made her want to be good.

What if Kira was always good? What if she was captured and trained as a young child/teen to serve evil? I think that this makes incredible sense. Out of all the "bad turned good" characters in Charmed, I think she was the most genuine being that wanted to be good - and was good, in my opinion. Her powers aren't innately good OR evil, and there is no evidence of her directly killing innocents in Charmed. She also longed for the world of "good" that she envisioned (and she gave Phoebe the same vision) - so maybe she saw a chance to get out of the evil world, and to join the good side.

We also don't know how old Kira is - she could very well be human, and her power advancement could be explained by the fact that she was captured by demons at a young age much like fire starters like Christie. This also explains why Phoebe was less advanced than her, because Kira would have had 10+ years more experience than Phoebe (I am assuming that they are around the same age in season 7).

What do you guys think? I love Kira, and regardless of Good/Evil, she is one of my favourite characters in Charmed - I also love her in Buffy

Jan 11, 2015 12:56:39 GMT -5 ljones said:

I don't think the question was whether she was human or not. I think the question was whether she was good or evil.

It was a bit of both. 

[Esmeralda]

Jan 10, 2015 19:45:39 GMT -5 Darkhorse Christian said:

Jan 10, 2015 14:50:30 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

*nods* Gotcha. I could've sworn that this was the reason Kira didn't continue - that Kern didn't want a pregnant star - but it could've been from someone who read it wrong. Thanks for the correction. Do you have the link so I can correct the other places where I posted it wrong?

She talks about it here:



Also, she had her son Donovan in March 2003, which would mean that her pregnancy took place in 2002. 4th season Angel aired in the '02-03 period, whereas 7th season Charmed was '04-05. Timeline doesn't match for Kern to be the one who fired her for being pregnant.

Thanks much! The last paragraph shows it even better than her saying it - it's so easy to spin...

[Nimue]

We only saw Kyra for a short amount of time, but from the little we did see I believe she was good, or trying to be as good as possible.

[Darkhorse Christian]

Jan 11, 2015 1:35:57 GMT -5 ljones said:

I would say like many others, Kira had both good and evil within her.

I would say I agree. Being that she's implied to have a past relationship with Zankou on top of being a demon brought up in the darkness, she was definitely predisposed to evil for a long time. But then after being introduced to the sensation of good through some of the visions she was getting, she started wanting that, and I think that's where the ability to feel that and become that was awakened within her. Yet at the same time she felt trapped, like she could never truly break free of evil until she found a way to turn human.

Trouble is, though, she said she knew that being "made human" by the Elders still meant that she wouldn't have a soul but she was okay with that. But if the reason demons struggle with good emotions or are closed off to them is that they lack souls, wouldn't that still be an issue? And if you combine that with her realizing that the human world is still flawed and filled with evils and problems as well...again, it comes across as someone trying to retire quietly from a life of crime, except in her case she's the one who was running numbers and gathering information in contrast to how Cole was the one who'd been a mafia gangster taking part in heists and hits.

Had Kira stuck around longer, and had the sisters' "protecting the innocent" motif been faithfully kept to, she would've been the part where the existence of demonic exceptions clearly and decisively informed the sisters' perception of the rule about demons to where again, their bad intentions and sour nature are still a safe presumption but shouldn't be used as an excuse to arbitrarily hunt them down unless they're found to be at least plotting harm unto others.

[Deleted]

Kira was an interesting character. She was a Demon that wanted to become human, to leave evil behind. The Charmed Ones were going to help her accomplish that. However, before that could happen, Kira was vanished by Zankou. It was interesting the note that the Charmed Ones actually seemed to care about losing her (at this point, it was usually: We lost another Innocent. Meh, who cares? What's for dinner?). However, even though there were ways of bringing her back, the Halliwell sisters never pursued them. Why? In short, why did they bring in this great character, only to throw her away after just three episodes?

This was another blunder I corrected in the Rex and Hannah Chronicles. With R&H's help, the Charmed Ones rescued Kira from the Wasteland (this took place in my fourth R&H story, Revelations). Kira has since become a recurring character in the R&H Chronicles. I even gave her a bit of a background. In my 14th story, Redemption, I revealed that Kira had been the apprentice of the original Seer (played by Debbi Morgan, back in S4). Kira had been "promoted" to full Seer when the original Seer was vanquished at the end of Womb Raider. That was the only way I could get it to make sense, as Kira was referred to as THE Seer.

If I saw some potential in this character, why didn't the Charmed writers see it (and I'm not the only one who's brought Kira back, I've seen her in other Charmed stories too, and now the comics have done so)?

And if Phoebe should have ended up with anyone, it should have been Kira.  The two of them had great chemistry together.  A lot of the Phoebe/Kira Fan Fictions I've seen show this. These stories show the spiritual connection between the two of them (rather than just girl-on-girl porn). It would have been a good way for Phoebe to close out the series. Piper with Leo, Paige with Henry, and Phoebe with Kira. Of course, Brad Kern's 1950's mentality would never have permitted this.

Wish I could have done Phoebe/Kira in the R&H Chronicles, but since I'm following canon, I have to have Phoebe with Mr. Cardboard.  As for Kira, I ended up hooking her up with Cole.

Here is a character profile I wrote up for Kira in the R&H Chronicles:



NAME: Kira

AGE: Inapplicable

HAIR: Brown

EYES: Brown

OCCUPATION: Seer

DESIGNATION: Former Demon, now human

KNOWN POWERS: Ability to see the past and future.

KNOWN RELATIVES: None.

PERSONAL DATA

Prior to her making contact with Leo Wyatt and the Charmed Ones in 2004, nothing is known of Kira. It remains unclear as to exactly when she gave up her humanity, and soul, in order to become a Demon.

What is known is that Kira became a Seer in the Underworld, and was the apprentice to the original Seer. When the original Seer was vanquished by the Charmed Ones in 2002, Kira was promoted to take her place. However, Kira was never as evil as her predecessor had been and quickly grew disillusioned with the Underworld and it policies. In time, she became aware of the Warlock Insurgency, which was led by Rex Buckland and Hannah Webster, and secretly supported them.

In 2004, Kira had finally decided to defect to the side of good. To do that, she approached the White Lighter Elders and offered to make a deal. If they would make her human again, she would reveal key information about the Underworld. Eventually the Elders agreed and asked the Charmed Ones to guard Kira until the deal could be fulfilled.

Despite being a Demon, Kira got along well with the Charmed Ones, especially Phoebe Halliwell (no doubt because both of them had similar powers). It looked like Kira would get her wish after all.

Unfortunately, the Demon, Zankou, had other ideas. He considered Kira a traitor and tracked her down at Halliwell Manor. As the Charmed Ones watched helplessly, Zankou vanquished Kira to the Wasteland.

Four years later, in 2008, the Charmed Ones discovered that Rex Buckland and Hannah Webster were back in town and confronted them. Rex and Hannah revealed that they had turned their backs on evil and had led the Warlock Insurgency against the Demons for years. As proof, Rex revealed that he possessed an array of magic books and he felt should be preserved. One of those books was the Grimoire, which Leo Wyatt had hidden in the Andes Mountains years before. Rex had learned of its location and recovered it. It was then that Phoebe Halliwell hit on the idea of using the Grimoire to rescue Kira from the Wasteland. With Rex’s help, the spell was cast and Kira was indeed liberated from the Wasteland and reunited with her human friends.

At that point, the Angel Of Destiny (the one that the Charmed Ones had encountered prior and after the Ultimate Battle) appeared and offered to return Kira’s soul, fulfilling the promise to make her human. Kira agreed, and her humanity was restored (although she did retain her powers). Soon after, Kira was invited to live at Halliwell Manor, while she tried to find her place in the world.

In the following years, Kira became a stanch ally of Rex and Hannah, helping them out in many an adventure. She also remained good friends with the Halliwell sisters.

During that time, Cole Turner had been freed from the Void Between Life and Death and also given his soul back by the Angel Of Destiny (who had arranged for Cole to be sent into the void, while his case was decided by the Council Of Destiny). Soon after, Cole and Kira met and fell in love. As of this writing, they are now living together.

[BriannaWarren]

I would of really liked it if the Elders saw her as an asset to the Charmed Ones and would of added Kira as a witch to assist the Charmed Ones with the Book Of Shadows and helping Phoebe with her premonitions.

Kira could of had her powers or negotiate the powers she had with the Elders. I would of let her have and I would add:

Original:
-Her premonitions. (Kept them to the same level, so she could still be a human lie detector)
-Her fading teleportation power. (Since it isn't really evil)
Added:
-Empathy (since she wants to feel human emotions, this could be a challenge and a adventure to her)
-Astral Projections (so she could astral project in her premonitions and it's more of a power that would be more useful to her)
-Telekinesis (Since almost every character of Charmed had this anyway)
-Telepathy (You will see why shortly)

I would of had Kira teach Billie the ropes of being a witch, since the Charmed Ones would be busy, Kira could teach Billie a lot more about demons since she was one and she could of also sense something wrong with Christy so Billie and Kira swap their powers for 24 hours and Billie could see that Christy isn't who she says she is and that she has been manipulated to the point of no return and could find a way to either save her or destroy her.

What do you think?

[Esmeralda]

I think that would make her TOO powerful, and just like Wyatt and Billie, I hate it when anyone good is more powerful than any of the Charmed Ones. Someone evil, that's okay, coz that creates drama - but not someone who is supposed to be their ally - that turns them into an instant Gary Stu/Mary Sue character like Wyatt and Billie.

I'd just let her keep her own powers and add empathy for the reason you said and that's more than enough. But since I don't know what you have in mind, I'll let you decide which ones to keep.

If anything, I'd want it to be Phoebe who would develop telepathy.