Did Kern "Torch the Franchise and Run"?

[Deleted]

Having been sucked into the wild world of TV Tropes again, I came across a trope called "Torch the Franchise and Run":

A writer has created a franchise, but they don't own the legal rights to what will happen to the franchise, the publisher/network/studio/whatever does. Or maybe they share the rights with someone else and just doesn't have as much control as they would like. They wants to stop writing it and move on to something else.

But they don't want anyone else being able to handle their property, even though they don't legally own it. And even if they did own the franchise, what happens when their kids get their hands on the franchise after their inevitable death? The solution? Torch the franchise and run. Write one last story that totally wrecks everything. They kills off everyone they possibly can. They make the lives of all of the characters a living hell before executing them. They make 100% sure that everyone is dead, and those that aren't have no way of returning to the status quo or main premise of the show.

Essentially the authorial version of breaking your own toys so that nobody else can play with them.

(From: tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TorchTheFranchiseAndRun)

I can't help but think of "Forever Charmed," and more specifically, its infamous flash-forward when reading the above passages. Anyone who has ever written post-finale fanfiction or pondered about a canon continuation or spinoff knows just how much the last few minutes of the last few episode threw a monkey wrench into story/spinoff plans.

Everyone either tried their hardest to write around the ending and tell the best story they possibly could (Destined, R&H Chronicles, 1% of FF.net), embraced the happy ever after and all of its mediocrity (the comics, 85% of FF.net), or said f**k it and wrote another bad, never-to-be-finished AU (14% of FF.net), but nobody was ever completely happy with the results. Be it for-profit, or not, we couldn't tell the stories we wanted to tell, and the last episode was the primary reason why.

Why did the show have to end so far into the future? Did we really need to see everyone's husbands, kids, and grandkids? Why does this flash-forward even exist?

What if I told you Kern included the flash-forward for this very reason, that he really wanted to keep people from realistically continuing the Charmedverse?

All throughout the last season, he was planning out a spinoff of his own, but not of Chris & Wyatt Halliwell, but instead, Billie & Christy Jenkins. However, because these characters were widely hated and poorly received by everyone, especially the group of fans who wanted to see a show about Piper's sons, Kern's spinoff idea died before it was barely out the door.

As a result, the last several episodes of the season were spent not only tying up the Halliwell sisters' storyline, but also that of the Jenkins sisters, making for a very rushed, sloppy end to the series. This is particularly evident in the finale, itself, which had very little plot beyond guest stars, babies, and a poorly-executed time travel sequence and didn't even bother giving real closure to Billie & Christy.

I know Charmed was never known for stellar writing, particularly in the later seasons, but the almost-series finales from S4 ("Witch Way Now?") and S7 ("Something Wicca This Way Goes") proved that Kern could make a good series finale, so why did he drop the ball so much with "Forever Charmed"? Was he intentionally trying to shut off the show's continuity and prevent any further continuations, especially considering that his desired spinoff fizzled out?

All I can say is that this may be, yet, another reason why CBS was trying for a reboot instead of a spinoff.

[Deleted]

Yeah, Kern did it deliberately.  If he wasn't going to get his spin off, then he made damned sure we TCS supporters weren't going to either. That flash forward really sank us, didn't it.  Mystery Girl and the Brood Of Brats

For a character who was onscreen for less then ten seconds and had no line, Mystery Girl caused more trouble than she was worth.  I'm talking about the Melinda Fallout which happened on the original TCS board.  It got so bad that one of the original founders of TCS, Donna, was ready to quit.  We were beating each other over the heads with our own severed limbs as to the identity of Mystery Girl.  It wasn't pretty.

Kern knew damned well that the TCS Campaign existed, and Forever Charmed was his f*ck you to all TCS fans.  Another piece of evidence, the S8 DVD's special features include a segment of interview with prominent fans.  Among them are Andrea Haag (owner of the now defunct CharmedOnes.com site), Misty (the Cafe Admin at that time), and Aretha (Admin of the later TCS board).  Another fan in those interviews was Lisa, the other original TCS founder.  She told us that she promoted the campaign in her interview, but seeing it, you wouldn't know that.  Yep, they cut out every reference she made to the TCS Campaign (and Lisa was not happy, believe me).  Kern got the last laugh again, it seems.

Kern destroyed any real chance of reviving the 1998-2006 version of Charmed.  Yes, as I have said, the Rex and Hannah Chronicles has given me a lot more wiggle room, however, even I had restrictions (like I couldn't break up Phoebe and Mr. Cardboard).  In the end, I was forced to drop the Charmed Ones as guest characters because I didn't want to deal with the Brood Of Brats.

Thanks a lot, Brad.  Thanks a LOT

[Deleted]

Yeah, as I explained in another thread, Kern clearly wasn't a fan of the TCS idea.  If his mishandling of the Chris storyline wasn't already enough to kill the idea on the spot, then "Forever Charmed" sure as hell was.  Why end the show like that if you wanted it to be open to continuation?  And, the way Lisa was treated in those Season 8 DVD interviews was just awful.  Surprised her Charmed Sons T-shirt made it past the censors.

[Deleted]

And, the way Lisa was treated in those Season 8 DVD interviews was just awful. Surprised her Charmed Sons T-shirt made it past the censors.

I'm surprised they didn't digitally blur it out.

I remember how excited Lisa was when she mentioned the upcoming release and how disappointed she was when she saw that they'd removed all mention of the TCS Campaign.  No one is going to convince that this wasn't done on Kern's orders. 

I mean what was the harm of letting Lisa's mention of the TCS Campaign stay in.   Why did they ever bother to interview her?

As for me, well, I would have been happy to give my insights (mind you, the Rex and Hannah Chronicles were still two years away at this point), however, nobody called me.

[ljones]

I believe Constance Burge almost "torched" the franchise back in Season 2.

[Darkhorse Christian]

Jul 9, 2015 12:27:27 GMT -5 ljones said:

I believe Constance Burge almost "torched" the franchise back in Season 2.

At which point specifically?

[Deleted]

Jul 9, 2015 12:27:27 GMT -5 ljones said:

I believe Constance Burge almost "torched" the franchise back in Season 2.

I don't think you understand what the meaning of "Torch the Franchise and Run" is.

[Deleted]

I believe Constance Burge almost "torched" the franchise back in Season 2.

Could you be more specific please?

[Deleted]

I probably already know what she's going to say, but I'll let her speak for herself.

[ljones]

Jul 10, 2015 10:18:27 GMT -5 @bettynewbie said:

I probably already know what she's going to say, but I'll let her speak for herself.

What am I going to say?

[Deleted]

Jul 13, 2015 11:13:08 GMT -5 ljones said:

What am I going to say?

That Connie "ruined" the show in Season 2 with her Black & White Morality and that Cole was the best thing to ever happen to the show.  In fact, Cole was the only good thing about the show... Oh, and Paige's power is called "teleportation," not "orbing."

I've read your posts a million times, and you've been beating the same drum for 10 years, now.  You don't just hate the direction the show went later on, but also its very premise, and you have a knack for picking fights with people over it.  Why are you even posting at a Charmed board when you clearly have nothing good to say about the show (besides Cole, that is)?

[ljones]

Jul 13, 2015 12:01:23 GMT -5 @bettynewbie said:

Jul 13, 2015 11:13:08 GMT -5 ljones said:

What am I going to say?

That Connie "ruined" the show in Season 2 with her Black & White Morality and that Cole was the best thing to ever happen to the show.  In fact, Cole was the only good thing about the show... Oh, and Paige's power is called "teleportation," not "orbing."

I've read your posts a million times, and you've been beating the same drum for 10 years, now.  You don't just hate the direction the show went later on, but also its very premise, and you have a knack for picking fights with people over it.  Why are you even posting at a Charmed board when you clearly have nothing good to say about the show (besides Cole, that is)?

May I suggest that the next time you wait until I explain myself? Because you're wrong. What I was about to say was this:


Throughout most of Season 2, the storytelling and most of the characterizations seemed stuck in a rut in Season 2. It almost seemed as if Burge was too frightened to develop the show's writing style even further. Sure, she made changes with Prue's profession. And she included the Piper/Leo/Dan love triangle. But I suspect that was due to Holly Marie Combs, who wanted Leo to remain as a regular . . . especially after what happened to poor Andy Trudueau. I never understood this idea that the sisters should never get involved in any serious romances, while they fought evil. For them to spend the series' ENTIRE RUN hunting demons, while engaging in quickie romances seemed so unoriginal to me, let alone regressive for their characters. And for some reason, Burge never considered the idea of extending the show's writing toward multi-episodes story arcs. I'm not saying that she had to do one major story arc per season. But the occasional multi-episodes story arc would not have hurt. The closest she came to this was "Awakened" and "Astral Monkey". Two episodes. Wow. How bold. Not.

I will say this for Kern, he tried to make the writing bolder and more varied . . . even if he failed in the end. I will give him points for trying. But alas, he is no Joss Whedon.

[Deleted]

Yup, your response was just as I expected.

Jul 13, 2015 14:28:53 GMT -5 ljones said:

And for some reason, Burge never considered the idea of extending the show's writing toward multi-episodes story arcs. I'm not saying that she had to do one major story arc per season. But the occasional multi-episodes story arc would not have hurt. The closest she came to this was "Awakened" and "Astral Monkey". Two episodes. Wow. How bold. Not.

Maybe, because the show's writers were never that good at writing story arcs to begin with? Look at most of the story arcs on Charmed, and you see these main things in common--boring and dragging, botched characterization, contradictions with past episodes, and bad, anticlimactic endings. Serial storytelling is supposed to be stronger and more engaging, but not in the hands of Charmed's writers. I'd happily take most of Season 2's standalones over most of the boring, awful arcs from the later seasons.

Jul 13, 2015 14:28:53 GMT -5 ljones said:

I will say this for Kern, he tried to make the writing bolder and more varied . . . even if he failed in the end.

Read: He introduced a certain half-demon into the show and took the focus off of this Power of Three nonsense.

Jul 13, 2015 14:28:53 GMT -5 ljones said:

But alas, he is no Joss Whedon.

Uh-huh... I think you might be more at home at Aretha's other board.

[Deleted]

And for some reason, Burge never considered the idea of extending the show's writing toward multi-episodes story arcs.

Uh, hello, Rex and Hannah?  That happened in Season One, during Burge's tenure.

[Deleted]

Jul 13, 2015 17:16:26 GMT -5 @tim66 said:

Uh, hello, Rex and Hannah?  That happened in Season One, during Burge's tenure.

Oh, that's right, and that was from the very beginning of Season 1, too... It also didn't bore/anger/frustrate me like most of the arcs from later on, too.

[Deleted]

Yep, Ms. Burge could do story arcs, and damned good ones.  The R&H story arc was much better than a lot of the rubbish we got in the later seasons.

[Deleted]

Jul 13, 2015 23:39:39 GMT -5 @tim66 said:

Yep, Ms. Burge could do story arcs, and damned good ones.  The R&H story arc was much better than a lot of the rubbish we got in the later seasons.

Yeah, compare R&H to, say, the Avatar nonsense from Season 7, which was plodding, sloppily-written, made everyone involved look like a self-centered @ss, and had the worst, most anticlimactic ending ever.

Or, the Chris storyline, which, despite all the potential it had, also turned out sloppily-written, full of botched characterization, and with an awful ending.  And, that's not even taking into account the way it was constantly sidelined for Freebie, fairytale crap, and worthless filler like "Witchstock."

And, the less said about the "Crazy Super-Cole" storyline from Season 5, the better.

And, then there was the Dark Phoebe storyline, which was also plodding, marked the beginning of the end of Cole's character, and furthered Piper and Phoebe's descent into Miss Whinealot and PhoeMe.  It also stole much-valuable screentime that could've gone to developing Paige's character, instead.  Only the fairly strong ending it received in the "Long Live the Queen"/"Womb Raider"/"Witch Way Now" three-parter saved it from being a total disaster.

And, then, there was the Demon Brotherhood stuff from late Season 3, and well... TWOP called it the "Demon Who Came in From the Zzzz" for a reason.

And, last, but not least, Cole's introduction in early Season 3... Which ended with Phoebe lying to her sisters and turning into PhoeMe in "Sleuthing With the Enemy."

Yeah, I'll take Season 2's "Monster of the Week" format ANY day over that!

[Nimue]

The "monter of the week format" wasn't perfect: there were a number of inconsistencies that happened, too, such as warlocks not bleeding (that's all I can think of for now). The Rex and Hannah arc finished with a deus ex machina: Leo gave the sisters their powers back, allowing them to vanquish Rex and Hannah. And one of the arcs in Season 2 was the stupid love triangle, which assassinated Dan's character. Having said that, I like both the "monster of the week format", and the arcs from the later seasons, no matter how imperfect and flawed they are.

[Deleted]

The Rex and Hannah arc finished with a deus ex machina: Leo gave the sisters their powers back, allowing them to vanquish Rex and Hannah.

I know.  R&H had won, they had the sisters up against the wall.  Then Mr. Deus Ex Machina comes along...

In a way, Rex and Hannah were like Zankou.  They took their time, watched the sisters, and struck only when they had maneuvered the sisters into a situation they could not easily get out of.  Gotta give my two favourite Warlocks kudos for that.

[Deleted]

Yeah, Rex & Hannah are good examples of villains done well on the show.  They planned things out and actually posed a threat to the sisters.  They didn't just blindly charge in shooting fireballs like all of those generic music video rejects called "demons" in the later seasons did.