Was there ever a morally ambivalent villain in Charmed?

[sol]

Nov 17, 2015 17:15:51 GMT -5 @tim66 said:

I'm surprised the police haven't picked up on the number of people who have died which there have been lots of and done something about that although they don't know who's killed them etc.

That's probably one of the reasons hunter have to keep constantly on the move.  There was an episode in which addressed the fact that hunters never go back to a town they've had a case in before, because sometimes there is a body count.

To be fair, quite a few of the encounters with demons/angels in Supernatural were too hazardous to permit the Winchesters to exorcise each and every one. It's difficult to maintain any sort of restraint when you have four demons actively trying to kill you.

Yeah, sometimes events just move too fast for the Winchester boys and it's kill or be killed.  They have no fancy powers or Elders to bail them out, so they sometimes have to make touch choices. 

I suppose Cole was as close as Charmed got to portraying a morally ambiguous character, but even then he was pushed back into 'Big Bad' status towards the end of his tenure.

At least in his final appearance on the show, Seven Year Witch, he was a good guy again. 

hey had such a good opportunity to make Phoebe take a good hard look at herself in S5 and recognise her part to play in Cole's undoing, especially her own free decision to become Queen of the Underworld. All this, "the baby made me do it" nonsense just doesn't wash. It actually would've made sense if Phoebe had acknowledged her 'dark side' as this was alluded to several times in S1-3.

Of course, the later season Charmed Ones had become vain and selfish creatures who cared only for their own comforts.  They did whatever they jolly well pleased, consequences be damned.

It was evil for Cole to kill those two oxygen wasters in the one with Paige's father, but it was perfectly okay for Phoebe and Paige to kill Rick in Hyde School Reunion.  Double standard, anyone

Supernatural world is very faraway from the world of tales which Charmed belongs

It sure the heck is.  SPN is written for the audience of the 21st Century, while Charmed was written for the audience of the 1950's.

I don't like the trick to isolate a sentence out of context


If you watched Charmed and are still obsessively writing about it, you profusely belong to the audience of the 1950's,
seeing that you cannot forget it

If I don't like a series, after 2 or 3 episodes I stop looking and I forget the existence


Even in the fabulous 21st century there are  stories where the division between good and evil is clear, it's a classic, even in the ancient Greece there were stories where the good guys were good and the bad guys were bad, at the same time they were represented stories where the good and the bad were barely distinguishable, nothing new

Now, as then, we can choose according to our predilection, Games of Throne or The Lord of the Rings, each to his own!

And since we don't live in the  Big Brother society, we aren't forced to conform to the  Unique Thought and we are free to love the series closer to our mood


Viva la libertad

[Deleted]

I don't like the trick to isolate a sentence out of context

It's not a "trick".  You said that Supernatural and Charmed were worlds apart and I gave a reason why.  Just because you don't agree with said reason doesn't make it any less valid.

And since we don't live in the Big Brother society

I take it you mean the novel, 1984, and not the loathsome reality show (I can't stand reality shows).

we aren't forced to conform to the Unique Thought and we are free to love the series closer to our mood

And exactly where did I say that you weren't allowed to love Charmed?  I said it was made for an audience of the 1950's, but I never said that modern audiences weren't allowed to like it.

[Melinda Halliwell]

Nov 18, 2015 12:00:58 GMT -5 @tim66 said:

And exactly where did I say that you weren't allowed to love Charmed?  I said it was made for an audience of the 1950's, but I never said that modern audiences weren't allowed to like it.

Maybe what Tim's saying is the way he thought the show was portrayed in some of the plotlines and how the sisters seemed later on is like that was written in the 1950's ala Bewitched because the figure heads of Charmed were from that era and so didn't know how to write for the more moderner person like Joss Whedon and Eric Kripe for e.g. who did 'cause they were born later etc.

But yes no matter what you thought of Charmed everyone loved it in their own way.

[Deleted]

Maybe what Tim's saying is the way he thought the show was portrayed in some of the plotlines and how the sisters seemed later on is like that was written in the 1950's ala Bewitched because the figure heads of Charmed were from that era and so didn't know how to write for the more moderner person like Joss Whedon and Eric Kripe for e.g. who did 'cause they were born later etc.

That's exactly it.  Spelling and Vincent were two pre-World War II dinosaurs whose values were time locked into the 1950's.  They came of age in the era of black hatted villains, and thus forced that outdated concept on Charmed. 

Joss Whedon and Eric Kripke, on the other hand, are both Generation Xr's, and thus understand the modern way to write shows, and villains. 

It is interesting to note that Buffy and Angel maintain an active online presence, years after both show have ended. Charmed, however, once you leave the Cafe....  *crickets chirping*.

Draw your own conclusions. 

[Sadrick]

Nov 17, 2015 17:39:44 GMT -5 erikamarie said:

Cole is a prideful man who enjoys partaking in the luxuries of mortal wealth and comfort. There's no denying that. However, those traits alone do not make him inherently evil. If Cole was totally submerged in the malevolent practice of a demonic hitman then he would be incapable of loving or appreciating anyone but himself, right? He would have no conscience. But as I mentioned previously, that doesn't seem to be the case. Cole actively put himself in harm's way so he could be reunited with his human father. He toiled and stressed to rescue him from whatever nefarious agonies his demonic captors were subjecting him to. This was before Phoebe began to have an influence over him. How can this be interpreted in any other way except love from Cole for his father? 

Now I do agree that Cole seemed to have a difficult time adjusting to human society, even moreso than Leo whose natural instincts weren't to hurt but to help. That doesn't mean he couldn't eventually have assimilated into the lifestyle through enough exposure and support from others. He had the unfortunate coincidence of being a prime target for conversion back to evil.

[Deleted]

Well, at least his last episode, Seven Year Witch, saw him rightfully restored to his status as good guy.  In the R&H Chronicles, I ran with that.  Like Rex and Hannah themselves, Cole has left his evil past behind forever. 

[sol]

Cole'ld be a"a prideful man who enjoys partaking in the luxuries of mortal wealth and comfort"and still be a good guy

I agree with Erika Marie analysis, the big problem for Cole wasn't a general trouble to blend into human society but a great trouble to fit intobeing a normal person: no fire power, no money, struggle to find a satisfying job

And I agree with Sadrick, he needed time to dream up a new life, to learn to live with a wife - witch, to share his life with Phoebe


Neither had this time

[ljones]

Also Chris, whilst not exactly a villain, wasn't exactly 'Good' to begin with either so was more of an anti-hero, probably because of the world he came from where 'Good' and 'Evil' no longer have significance.

Even the sisters weren't exactly that "good" as they inevitably proved in Seasons 4-8.

Now I do agree that Cole seemed to have a difficult time adjusting to human society, even moreso than Leo whose natural instincts weren't to hurt but to help. That doesn't mean he couldn't eventually have assimilated into the lifestyle through enough exposure and support from others. He had the unfortunate coincidence of being a prime target for conversion back to evil.

Cole never had any real problems with assimilating into human society. He had a problem with dealing with the loss of Phoebe. Just as Piper had a problem with losing Prue to death and Leo to the Elders.

[Deleted]

Cole, Leo, Gideon, Kyle Brody, & the Phoenix witches.