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Post by ShadowCat on Mar 2, 2017 16:40:34 GMT -5
Season 2 has gotten better and better for me on later re-watches, the sisters are great, they regularly help innocents, not as much of a focus on generic demons, honestly I could go on. Couldn't agree more adzpower.  Yes it is nice to have a human villian sometimes than a demonic one which as Ruth Marie said because it makes the show interesting. Exactly. Astral Monkey was one of pipers better episodes in season 2. The ending was quite emotional and I often compare it to that of phoebes performance in "long live the queen" after Cole was vanquished. I also liked Awakened but not for pipers performance, more for prue and phoebe in general. It was the first time they faced the threat of possible exposure and how they went about attempting to fix it in true Wiccan style. All those personal gain rules that came after that episode just put a damper on the excitement in later episodes. Reason why I love the early seasons when they were willing to take risks. Especially phoebe who wouldn't think twice back then in using magic to fix her problems. I also liked piper in "Give me a Sign". Watching how piper and phoebe interacted without prue around and how phoebe drove her crazy with the spell she cast. Yeah the ending is really good. I wished they focused more on the threat of exposure. Too bad, witch hunters should of been more of a focus or even a big bad of the season. I find the idea of a human big bad more interesting than always being demons. Your comments on delving more into bad humans as apposed to focusing on demons got me to thinking about Melinda's anger and thus predictions. Yes, Tate was a bad witch, but it seems to me that she had more to fear from the general human population than a gaggle of up rising demons. If we look at the actual witch-hunts in Salem those prosecuting the woman were religious leaders or other self-righteous powers of the community. Part of what I think was Charm's down-fall was taking too much of the human factor out of the mix. When you get right down to it our species doesn't need outside influences to behave badly. |
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Post by gzv969 on Mar 2, 2017 16:55:30 GMT -5
Couldn't agree more adzpower. Exactly. Yeah the ending is really good. I wished they focused more on the threat of exposure. Too bad, witch hunters should of been more of a focus or even a big bad of the season. I find the idea of a human big bad more interesting than always being demons. Your comments on delving more into bad humans as apposed to focusing on demons got me to thinking about Melinda's anger and thus predictions. Yes, Tate was a bad witch, but it seems to me that she had more to fear from the general human population than a gaggle of up rising demons. If we look at the actual witch-hunts in Salem those prosecuting the woman were religious leaders or other self-righteous powers of the community. Part of what I think was Charm's down-fall was taking too much of the human factor out of the mix. When you get right down to it our species doesn't need outside influences to behave badly. That's why the change to having a heavy focus on demons instead of warlocks and bad witches wasn't such a good idea. They're should have been a balance. Whenever they went up against warlocks was always more interesting. I recall my excitement when they encountered bacarra in "A Witch In Time". The warlock from the future. Or Bianca in chris crossed. Reminded me of how dangerous and powerful warlocks and bad witches were to them. More because they think and plan carefully like witches and not like dumb demons. |
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Post by magena on Mar 2, 2017 20:19:29 GMT -5
I like both Bacarra and Bianca, very original characters, they deserved more
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Mar 3, 2017 4:35:38 GMT -5
I liked them also and wouldn't have minded seeing them again.
In my fanfiction series, actually Bacarra is a more important type Warlock then the new Source Of All Evil having the Charmed Ones killed just after my original character and her cousin's are born plus Leo and Andy leading Cole and Victor to get their powers stripped and kept safe by the Elders before putting up the kids up for adoption so Bacarra can't find them magically because of a vision his Seer has of the next generation vanquishing him in their teenage years making him have a much longer and more deserved storyline.
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Ruth Marie
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Post by Ruth Marie on Mar 5, 2017 3:21:06 GMT -5
Couldn't agree more adzpower. Exactly. Yeah the ending is really good. I wished they focused more on the threat of exposure. Too bad, witch hunters should of been more of a focus or even a big bad of the season. I find the idea of a human big bad more interesting than always being demons. Your comments on delving more into bad humans as apposed to focusing on demons got me to thinking about Melinda's anger and thus predictions. Yes, Tate was a bad witch, but it seems to me that she had more to fear from the general human population than a gaggle of up rising demons. If we look at the actual witch-hunts in Salem those prosecuting the woman were religious leaders or other self-righteous powers of the community. Part of what I think was Charm's down-fall was taking too much of the human factor out of the mix. When you get right down to it our species doesn't need outside influences to behave badly. Exactly, you are spot on. I like the human factor, and I think we brought it up on here before on why Andy/Darryl was a good balance to the human world. Than when Leo and the elders took a huge role. I wished we got some kind of balance. Because I find demons should of only been used in demon of the week stories and not been so central to the ongoing mythology. Your comments on delving more into bad humans as apposed to focusing on demons got me to thinking about Melinda's anger and thus predictions. Yes, Tate was a bad witch, but it seems to me that she had more to fear from the general human population than a gaggle of up rising demons. If we look at the actual witch-hunts in Salem those prosecuting the woman were religious leaders or other self-righteous powers of the community. Part of what I think was Charm's down-fall was taking too much of the human factor out of the mix. When you get right down to it our species doesn't need outside influences to behave badly. That's why the change to having a heavy focus on demons instead of warlocks and bad witches wasn't such a good idea. They're should have been a balance. Whenever they went up against warlocks was always more interesting. I recall my excitement when they encountered bacarra in "A Witch In Time". The warlock from the future. Or Bianca in chris crossed. Reminded me of how dangerous and powerful warlocks and bad witches were to them. More because they think and plan carefully like witches and not like dumb demons. Exactly. I really wished we had a balance. Because having Warlocks being the rival and ongoing villain to the Charmed Ones (Witches) just gave the show its balance right. Also the Warlocks in season 1 e.g Rex, Matthew Tate and Nicholas were just so good and not like a dumb demon. Maybe Cole being a warlock would of been fun to see. Better than a half demon. I liked them also and wouldn't have minded seeing them again. In my fanfiction series, actually Bacarra is a more important type Warlock then the new Source Of All Evil having the Charmed Ones killed just after my original character and her cousin's are born plus Leo and Andy leading Cole and Victor to get their powers stripped and kept safe by the Elders before putting up the kids up for adoption so Bacarra can't find them magically because of a vision his Seer has of the next generation vanquishing him in their teenage years making him have a much longer and more deserved storyline. Melinda you are right about Warlocks. I actually like all the Warlocks they had in season 1, very cool. Bacarra would of made a great big bad, and again I would of like to have seen a Warlock being the new Source of All Evil. I never considered that before until you brought it up. |
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Post by gzv969 on Mar 6, 2017 1:40:10 GMT -5
I liked them also and wouldn't have minded seeing them again. In my fanfiction series, actually Bacarra is a more important type Warlock then the new Source Of All Evil having the Charmed Ones killed just after my original character and her cousin's are born plus Leo and Andy leading Cole and Victor to get their powers stripped and kept safe by the Elders before putting up the kids up for adoption so Bacarra can't find them magically because of a vision his Seer has of the next generation vanquishing him in their teenage years making him have a much longer and more deserved storyline. That's why I loved "A witch in Time". Felt it was sort of a wasted episode. So much build up and potential for future events to just not have any of it happen. I'm referring to Cole being the Source in the future and working with Bacarra. Would have made a great tie in to future episodes even to a grand finale if they had been able to bring Julian back a Cole. |
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ljones
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Post by ljones on May 6, 2020 22:46:45 GMT -5
I don't care if Piper had felt guilty for not answering Dr. Williamson's letters. What really annoyed me about this episode that it refused to acknowledge that Piper's actions with the illegal fruit; along with Prue, Phoebe and Leo's misuse of magic to cure Piper had led to this whole mess.
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codebox
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Hey I'm a Charmed Veteran have been for a long time. Hope to share some insight and opinions.
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Post by codebox on May 7, 2020 19:43:30 GMT -5
It's not just the best Piper episode of Season 2, it's the best Piper episode in the entire show! From a character sense I find it great. Piper, who is seen as the Halliwell wants a normal life the most and most resistant is now dedicated to save a man who went out of his way to do so for her. It also works because the consequences of their actions from Awakened come full circle here, Prue and Phoebe never intentionally meant to cause the virus to spread, but Piper taking it back willingly and Leo saving her (in secret) therefore making Dr Williamson curious leading to his obsession and eventual corruption. Piper wants to fix the mistake they caused by helping him and its to show how people wielding something they clearly aren't meant to have can take them over.
Even the ending scene with her crying while "Let the Cables Sleep" plays in the background. It actually made me care for Piper/Leo. Piper wanting to save someone shows while she is the most resistant of their identities as witches, it didn't impart on her ability to save someone. Or try to. I even loved the parallel and sense of self awareness with the contrasting Dr Williamson's live with her current life with Leo.
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rebooted
Witch
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Post by rebooted on May 10, 2020 22:46:56 GMT -5
I recently watched that during my Season 2 rewatch.
Totally agree. One of Holly's best scenes
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ljones
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Post by ljones on May 11, 2020 22:11:03 GMT -5
Except this episode NEVER stated that the sisters and Leo's actions in "Awakened" had led to Dr. Williamson's obsession in the first place. They never owed up to what they had caused. Piper only expressed guilt for not answering the doctor's letters and Leo placated the sisters by solely blaming Dr. Williamson for his obsession. It was all a cop out in the end. At least to me. This has always been a problem with "Charmed" for me. The sisters rarely faced the consequences of their actions, except in two episodes. They rarely owed up to their mistakes. And when they did, their bad decisions and crimes were eventually swept away.
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codebox
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Hey I'm a Charmed Veteran have been for a long time. Hope to share some insight and opinions.
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Post by codebox on May 12, 2020 17:18:30 GMT -5
Again you bring up a good point. However in my opinion I don't think the episode was suppose to do that because the overall consequence was the fact their actions led to this. It also showed what would happen if they played the rules to their favor (saving Piper from the diease) I think them losing Williamson for what they caused was a result of them feeling guilty, after all Piper even states at the end of the episode she felt guilty and responsible for his death. That's what makes the episode work in my opinion. Yeah it's dark, and I can see it even being damaging, but the girls aren't careless about it as I feel that's either more of a writing than character flaw.
Not saying you're wrong though, to do provide a good insight. I just disagree and find it a good episode. I do agree with the sisters often getting away with stuff more often than not.
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Post by ladysylvia on May 21, 2021 16:00:55 GMT -5
This whole episode was a cop out and a sign that the show runners were never willing to allow the Charmed Ones to face the consequences of their mistakes and crimes. Piper should have remembered that her greedy act of purchasing illegal fruit led to the events of this episode. But Constance Burge and the writer of this episode let it slide. This is disgusting.
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Esmeralda
Charmed
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Post by Esmeralda on May 21, 2021 22:17:05 GMT -5
This whole episode was a cop out and a sign that the show runners were never willing to allow the Charmed Ones to face the consequences of their mistakes and crimes. Piper should have remembered that her greedy act of purchasing illegal fruit led to the events of this episode. But Constance Burge and the writer of this episode let it slide. This is disgusting. That's one of many reasons why neither 'Awakened' or 'Astral Monkey' (should be Monkey Chimps) are among my favorites. Although the final scene between Piper and Leo is one of my favorite scenes, and the chimps are such fun, I don't like the episode. For me, I like her in 'P3 H2O' a whole lot more. That's my favorite S2 Piper episode. |
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rebooted
Witch
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Post by rebooted on May 24, 2021 22:16:00 GMT -5
Am I the only one who just loves "Astral Monkey" to pieces? It's one of my favorite Holly performances in the end of the episode I really like this episode too. I like how it is a continuation of another previous episode but its not story-arc like the end of Season 4. It bought back an interesting character and concept and lose ends to Awakened as well. The scenes or the sisters running around the hospital corridors are cute too. Its a serious episode that is lighthearted as well. A great mix. Deals with exposure, morality, mortality, science vs. magic and personal gain to an extent. Even the subplot with Prue's photography is ok. And you are right - the ending is so sweet. The compassion that Piper has. The guilt. It really did make you feel compassion for the characters. It also marks a 'handover' of support for Piper, not being only reliant on Prue and Phoebe but now her partner Leo - and the fact that she probably made the right choice in Awakened because Dan probably would not have been able to help or relate as well. |
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Esmeralda
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Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on May 25, 2021 7:36:51 GMT -5
Am I the only one who just loves "Astral Monkey" to pieces? It's one of my favorite Holly performances in the end of the episode I really like this episode too. I like how it is a continuation of another previous episode but its not story-arc like the end of Season 4. It bought back an interesting character and concept and lose ends to Awakened as well. The scenes or the sisters running around the hospital corridors are cute too. Its a serious episode that is lighthearted as well. A great mix. Deals with exposure, morality, mortality, science vs. magic and personal gain to an extent. Even the subplot with Prue's photography is ok. And you are right - the ending is so sweet. The compassion that Piper has. The guilt. It really did make you feel compassion for the characters. It also marks a 'handover' of support for Piper, not being only reliant on Prue and Phoebe but now her partner Leo - and the fact that she probably made the right choice in Awakened because Dan probably would not have been able to help or relate as well. Can you imagine if this happened once Kern took over? No way we'd get that beautiful ending scene! Poor, poor pitiful Piper would spend the whole episode mad because she's the one who's sick and is going to die and feeling sorry for herself and demanding that Leo heals her no matter if it was caused by magic or not, she doesn't care, just heal her. She wouldn't care less about the other people are sick and will be glad that it's the doctor who dies, not her. |
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rebooted
Witch
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Posts: 1,803
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Post by rebooted on May 26, 2021 1:09:40 GMT -5
I really like this episode too. I like how it is a continuation of another previous episode but its not story-arc like the end of Season 4. It bought back an interesting character and concept and lose ends to Awakened as well. The scenes or the sisters running around the hospital corridors are cute too. Its a serious episode that is lighthearted as well. A great mix. Deals with exposure, morality, mortality, science vs. magic and personal gain to an extent. Even the subplot with Prue's photography is ok. And you are right - the ending is so sweet. The compassion that Piper has. The guilt. It really did make you feel compassion for the characters. It also marks a 'handover' of support for Piper, not being only reliant on Prue and Phoebe but now her partner Leo - and the fact that she probably made the right choice in Awakened because Dan probably would not have been able to help or relate as well. Can you imagine if this happened once Kern took over? No way we'd get that beautiful ending scene! Poor, poor pitiful Piper would spend the whole episode mad because she's the one who's sick and is going to die and feeling sorry for herself and demanding that Leo heals her no matter if it was caused by magic or not, she doesn't care, just heal her. She wouldn't care less about the other people are sick and will be glad that it's the doctor who dies, not her. And Phoebe wouldn't be complaining about having to be back at work or wondering why she isn't pregnant yet |
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