Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
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Post by Esmeralda on Jan 7, 2016 16:31:44 GMT -5
Omniscient and good? I'ld not so sure In the first seasons the Elders know nothing about a lot of things, first of all the Triad Their greatest quality is being invisible, their task'ld be to support the witch, not give orders or promise retaliation They aren't gods or angels or something like that, only magical beings living aloof from the world and these were supposed to be instead of turning into a kind of politicians who share the cake with the evil hierarchies In The Honeymoon's Over, Leo mentions a sort of respect to which the Elders would be forced due a sacred bond Leo: Piper, would you... would you stop running away from me for just one minute and let me explain. (She stops and faces him.) If we got married... (she sighs) look, will you just hear me out please? If we got married, it would be a holy union, something I don't even think my bosses could break apart.
Piper: I don't understand.
Leo: It's really hard to explain. I-I don't really understand how it all works myself, but I know that there are different levels up there, a hierarchy. What I'm trying to say is that I think a holy union goes above their heads. It'd be like running an end run to my bosses bosses.
As the Source, as always the Elders do not seem to have great knowledge about him and his powers Nothing you're talking about happened in the first two seasons, the only season when Burge's "They" were in charge. Kern's "Elders" were in charge starting in Season Three, the first time they were called Elders. Everything you say about them fits the Elders, but not "Them". Kern assassinated Their characters long before he assassinated the Charmed Ones'. |
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Post by lilchi7212 on Jan 8, 2016 0:10:23 GMT -5
The Source itself is an essence of pure evil, which possesses and merges with a new host each time it is vanquished. However, the vast majority of demons is unaware of this truth, believing that each Source is a new demon risen to power. That's your way of interpreting what you saw. It's not mine, because it doesn't make sense with what happened. There was never any possession because Cole was always Cole. You can't be both Cole and someone else which is the definition of possession. The power of the Source kept growing stronger as he accepted and enjoyed being evil. But he wasn't possessed and the Elders should've noticed. He was influenced the same way Paige was at the beginning of the season - unlike the little boy and the mother and father in the vision Paige saw, or even Shane. Paige was still Paige. She was still making her own choices. Just like Cole. She chose good. He chose evil because he didn't like being a weak, powerless non-magical. If Phoebe has any fault in this, it's that - taking away his powers rather than learning how to love him with the powers that made him Cole. Otherwise, it's all Cole's fault. The Source is an evil essence which possessed the bodies of numerous demons over the centuries. When the demon body is vanquished, the essence is transferred into another evil entity. This means that every known Source was in fact the same essence, while demons in general believe that a new Source has risen. The essence will take a new host and merge with that host's own spirit, taking over their personality and consuming their own consciousness. The essence can also be reborn in beings who are related to its hosts by blood or those who are in possession of its powers. The essence of the Source lies within its powers. When Cole Turner gained the powers of the Source through the Hollow, the essence began to merge with him until they were the same entity. By merging with Cole, the Source began to share his love for Phoebe Halliwell. Once Cole was vanquished, the essence went into their unborn son and used his powers to take control of Phoebe until the child was transferred to the Seer. When the Seer was vanquished, the essence became disembodied until it was resurrected as a Golem in 2008. charmed.wikia.com/wiki/The_Source_of_All_Evil |
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Jan 8, 2016 0:44:00 GMT -5
And you believe the Charmed wiki???
Silly you!
That's a bunch of fans thinking their fanon is canon when it's not.
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Post by lilchi7212 on Jan 8, 2016 1:18:42 GMT -5
And you believe the Charmed wiki??? Silly you! That's a bunch of fans thinking their fanon is canon when it's not. Well it's the only thing that makes sense!heck even Paul Ruditis said so in Season 9 Comics #3Innocents Lost |
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Jan 8, 2016 1:41:37 GMT -5
Oh my God! Are there some people who are still trying to pretend that Cole had not been possessed by the Source in late Season 4? All one has to do is read the episodes' transcripts. Or better yet, watch the episodes. Heck, I had to use those very transcripts for one of my fan fiction stories.
And the Wikipedia site is actually pushing this new idea about the Source? This is getting ridiculous. The only time this happened was in Season 4's "Charmed and Dangerous". Otherwise . . . what the ER#Q%#@#S???
By the way, Cole had decided to use the Hollow to take the power of the Source, because the Seer told him it was the only way to save the Halliwells. He also thought the Hollow would be used to remove those powers from him, after the Halliwells were saved. He was wrong.
It's bad enough that Brad Kern had revised this whole thing, so he can excuse the Halliwells' failure to find out what really happened to Cole and allow Phoebe to continue her love life without any grief. But that Wikipedia would drum up this ridiculous theory really insults my intelligence.
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Post by erikamarie on Jan 8, 2016 2:30:53 GMT -5
There are different powers that are extrinsic, not inheritable, in Charmed: the power of the gods kept under lock by the Elders - in the fifth season, the power of the Elders, the power of the Source
In Witches in Thigts the concept of transfer of power is very clear:
Leo: Uh, Ramus is retiring. He came down to pass on his powers to a new Elder.
Piper: So...
Leo: So? There isn't a demon alive who wouldn't love to have his powers. So the Elders want you to protect him in case there's an attack.
Paige: Why can't he just orb out?
Ramus: Because my powers are mental, young lady, not physical. You'd think a charge of yours would know something as basic as that.
Kevin: What, what just happened?
Phoebe: Looks like Ramus was able to pass his powers onto the new Elder after all.
Paige: An Elder? He's only thirteen.
Leo: Elders are like kings. They can be any age.
Thirteen and alive, and yet able to absorb Elders powers, Kevin becomes an Elder, he is not possessed by an Elder
The demons battle to conquer the absolute evil power, as we saw in season four
Charmed and Dangerous
Cole: He doesn't work for the Source, Phoebe, he is the Source. His face was disfigured in the battle that brought him to power
He fought, conquered the power of the Source, swore on the Grimoire, banned the vampires, exterminated the wizards, imprisoned Zankou, who obviously had, at the same time.fought for that power
When, in Desperate Housewitches, he is exhumed by Mandy - or rather,by Wyatt - he is just a powerful demon, no longer the Source, the powers of the Source were released, or destroyed, in Womb Rider, by the combined action between the Power of Three and those of Phoebe's baby
The powers of the Gods, the Elders, the Source, are all primary source of power communicable to anyone who comes into their possession, magic or not magic, good or bad, but, mostly,are powers that infect if you don't have the spiritual strength to control them
Oh My Goddness
Paige: Okay, even if we do find her, how are we gonna get her back? She's on this major power trip. She destroyed the Titans, not even the Greek gods could do that.
Chris: We've just gotta hope she has some humanity still left inside
The stronger is the power assimilated, less easy it's to control it
For this reason I believe that in the beginning, the Elders were more tied to spiritual powers, as Ramus said when he placed himself under sisters's protection; after the Titans's attack, they tapped the physical powers that give them the opportunity to defend themselves and that changes their pacific nature, they were not suited to handle aggressive powers,while the Charmed Ones were able, for a limited time to manage the powers of the Gods, and Belthazor, not the Seer, those of the Source
Cole was not, possessed, I agree with Es, I like Cole, he isn't a pitful puppet!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2016 4:49:58 GMT -5
The concept of 'the Source' was another one that the writers of Charmed couldn't keep constant. During Cole's nightmare in 'The Three Faces of Phoebe' it was implied that Half-Face had been reborn within Cole, hence why throughout that episode (and many of the proceeding ones) he appeared to be possessed during several conversations with the Seer, in which they referred to "Cole" in the third person. Later however, especially in 'Long Live the Queen', it seemed to be all-Cole, all the time, and he seemed to be willingly taking over the position as 'the Source'. Oddly, by late S4 and then Season 5, the goalposts switched again and from then on it was decided that Cole had more or less decided to become the Source and, of course, Phoebe was absolved of all blame completely - by the far-fetched notion that her devil spawn was 'influencing' her to be Evil.
If I'd wrote those episodes, I simply would've had Half-Face's powers stayed within Cole, and they would then seduce him to 'the dark side' once more - kind of like a relapsed drug addict. 'The Source' would simply be an honorific title such as king or emperor, which he would be crowned along with Phoebe (who would also make her own free choice to do so).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2016 12:25:14 GMT -5
The one thing that Es and I can agree on, the Charmed Wiki is full of rubbish. I mean disagreeing with them is enough to get you banned. See this thread for further details. The Charmed Wikia is probably run by a bunch of 30 year old fanboys who live in their parent's basements and are continually drooling over half naked pictures of Phoebe. |
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Post by Sadrick on Jan 9, 2016 20:59:11 GMT -5
Contradictory feats and abilities is par for the course in Charmed. I could understand the lack of awareness if the scenes with Cole succumbing to the Source and any references to it occurred in the Underworld or in a magically protected environment, but not in the manor of all places.
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Post by lilchi7212 on Jan 11, 2016 0:10:26 GMT -5
When the Source was vanquished, the Seer said that his essence went "into the void." However, she was referring to the void in Cole's soul where Belthazor had once been. She expected that the Source would enter that void and take over Cole. Cole tries to fight becoming the new Source; The Source first appears to Cole inside Cole's dreams, where he stabs the surprised human Cole's dream self with a sword. Cole battles the Source now living inside him, to no avail; within a few days of the Source's vanquish, the Source has almost completely taken over Cole. Eventually, there is little left of Cole's humanity except his love for Phoebe. Although demons normally can't handle human emotions, the Source maintained to the Seer that he needed Phoebe's love because without it, Cole's soul would die and he would cease to exist, but that was likely only a ploy because he did not want to admit that even the possessed Cole's love for Phoebe would survive decades and eternities no matter what happened. Believing his previous incarnation as the Source was too reckless, the Source opted not to renew his war against the Charmed Ones. Rather, he intended to use Phoebe's love for Cole to turn her evil and permanently destroy the Power of Three. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Source_(Charmed) |
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Jan 11, 2016 3:27:38 GMT -5
Because she had a vision of that happening to Cole. The series never verified that the Source always took possession of another demon after he or she was killed. In fact, the old Source (portrayed by Peter Woodward) was resurrected in the Season 8 episode, "Desperate Housewitches".
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