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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2016 10:19:11 GMT -5
So I've just finished Season 5 of my mini-marathon and it struck me just how little Phoebe's powers are used. I mean I always knew they were under-used, but I never realised just how much! Granted, I'm only watching 15 episodes from Season 5 but during these she has only had a premonition (or two) in 'The Eyes Have It', 'A Witch in Time', 'Sand Francisco Dreamin', 'Baby's First Demon' and that sort of non-vision premonition in 'Oh My Goddess'.
Even worse, I've only seen her levitate in 'The Eyes Have It' (for 2 seconds, to demonstrate how little she could do it) and 'Sense and Sense Ability' very briefly. I do remember her levitating a lot in 'The Importance of Being Phoebe' but I cut that episode. Even still, three episodes is pitiful.
Meanwhile, orbing and exploding are used in virtually every episode! I just wonder what made the writers forget about Phoebe's powers?
If memory serves it's about to get worse in Season 6, and then she eventually loses her powers anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2016 10:45:51 GMT -5
With levitation it was because it was expensive to do. Apparently using a harness is very expensive and then they have to digitally remove the harness from the shot. You're right, she only levitates 3 times in season 6, plus that one time Mitsy used it.
I also figured the lack of premontions was a money and time saver too. Notice how she has more visions of the past once she gets her power back? They can usually reuse footage for that. Also many of her visions of the future turned out exactly as seen (she never actually changes it, which was once the point of her visions), so again, they can reuse footage they already have. Otherwise they'd have to film an extra scene just for the premonition... something they probably wanted to avoid later on, due to budget cuts and general laziness.
Orbing and exploding are pretty basic effects that could be done totally on computer, without having to spend or do anything extra. Exploding especially, since later on it just looked like any other vanquish.
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Post by ljones on Jan 11, 2016 10:51:56 GMT -5
I had a problem with two of Phoebe's powers. One, she should have never had levitation. I've always considered levitation to be an offshoot of telekinesis, which meant Prue should have had this ability. The series' portrayal of Phoebe's empath abilities had struck me as rather stupid and badly written. Kern and the writers could have allowed her to use her empath ability to not only sense the emotions of others, but also control anyone else's emotions. Instead, they drummed this ridiculous law that by tapping into someone's emotions, she can tap into their magical abilities. That was so stupid.
I never had a problem with Phoebe's premonitions. They were very useful. But Phoebe never had any respect for this ability, because she seemed to believe that sense that because this ability wasn't an "active power" or couldn't directly hurt or kill anyone, it was weak. Even worse, her premonition ability was the only one dismissed or rejected by the Source, when he used the Hollow to take Piper and Paige's powers in "Charmed and Dangerous".
What I found stupid about this whole matter is that why on earth would the Source want the Charmed One's powers in the first place? He was more powerful than they. Not even the Power of Three alone was powerful enough to vanquish him. And why would he reject Phoebe's premonition ability, when he always sought the assistance of a seer? He could have developed this ability, just as he was able to quickly develop Piper and Paige's abilities.
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Post by Darkhorse Christian on Jan 11, 2016 11:49:18 GMT -5
Kern and the writers could have allowed her to use her empath ability to not only sense the emotions of others, but also control anyone else's emotions. The one part of what you just said I'm gonna disagree with. Control other people's emotions? How does that not get abused to kingdom come? |
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Post by adzpower on Jan 11, 2016 12:06:20 GMT -5
Phoebe may as well have not had any powers by the end, she barely got to use them. I can kind of see why premonitions may have been costly to produce but empathy? All that happened was the stupid jingly noise for it appeared when she was tapping into emotions, they could have easily given her that back for season 8, they could have had them returned to her when she felt Coop's feelings for her or something cheesy like that.
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Jan 11, 2016 14:23:19 GMT -5
If I was a Charmed writer then and had Phoebe have empathy season 6 this's how it would've turned out then.
1. Phoebe gets the ability to feel people's emotions and channel them but not powers good or evil as the powers emotional based only.
2. She can heal people emotionally by absorbing whatever negative thing she's feeling i.e grief for instance which would affect her obviously.
3. I don't know whether to have her sense good/evil as Paige could do it via her whitelighter powers but since the writers never went beyond 'Size Matters' with that I'd have it she could do and if they did then not otherwise.
4. After gaining her power back she can project her own emotions onto other people making them feel what she does and then do that with via someone else onto other people.
5. She can shield herself from emotion based attacks only and other people to later on maybe.
6. And finally do what she done 'Morality Bites Again' with Cal Greene which she won't use often probably because of the negative affect it will have on her brain depending on the amount of emotions used obviously.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2016 18:04:49 GMT -5
With levitation it was because it was expensive to do. Apparently using a harness is very expensive and then they have to digitally remove the harness from the shot. You're right, she only levitates 3 times in season 6, plus that one time Mitsy used it. Yeah, I remember reading that a lot but I still don't really understand how they could use wires to throw demons/the sisters around in every episode, but they couldn't use them for levitation? Unless there are different sorts of wires/harnesses, of course? If so, you'd think they'd have thought about that before they gave Phoebe the power in the first place. Charmed's budget must've been awful if shows such as Buffy could use wires/harnesses in every single episode...  I never even considered that, good point. I'm inclined to go with the general laziness explanation as they managed to give Phoebe a premonition in nearly every episode during Seasons 1-2 when their budgets were surely smaller than Seasons 5-6. It's like the writers just couldn't be bothered to come up with ways to incorporate them into the plots. Actually, Phoebe's powers began to decline in importance then minute she met Cole - there's quite a sharp drop in the number of premonitions she has in Season 3, and she also didn't levitate that much until early Season 4. More's the pity, it's a shame Piper's freezing also suffered when she began exploding... |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2016 18:30:07 GMT -5
I had a problem with two of Phoebe's powers. One, she should have never had levitation. I've always considered levitation to be an offshoot of telekinesis, which meant Prue should have had this ability. The series' portrayal of Phoebe's empath abilities had struck me as rather stupid and badly written. Kern and the writers could have allowed her to use her empath ability to not only sense the emotions of others, but also control anyone else's emotions. Instead, they drummed this ridiculous law that by tapping into someone's emotions, she can tap into their magical abilities. That was so stupid. Agreed. I still to this day don't know what the writers were thinking in giving Prue astral projection and Phoebe levitation. Clearly those powers would've been suited to the opposite sister. I feel as if they wanted to turn Phoebe into a Buffy, especially because of her martial arts training. But then for some reason Prue began TK 'jumping' anyway ('Wrestling with Demons'). I think the idea of tapping into others' powers was based on the concept of powers being emotion-based, but yeah... it was a stretch, alright. It was clearly just an excuse to make Phoebe's powers more offensive. Even if they had portrayed empathy in the proper way, it probably would've soon been forgotten about like her other powers. Only brute force and transportation powers seemed worthy in Season 5-8. It's a shame that only brute force, transportation/teleportation and healing powers were considered important as the show progressed. The writers got stuck in a rut plot-wise and, in abandoning Phoebe's premonition power, limited themselves a lot. I always felt that Phoebe's psychic powers should've been at the level of Kyra's by Season 8, so as well as seeing the future/past, she would basically be a human lie detector. You're right, it was stupid that the Source went to all that trouble to steal the sisters' powers, why didn't he just disempower them and then go and kill them? If I'm right, doesn't disempowering a witch also hinder her ability to cast spells too? If so, they wouldn't have even been able to use the Power of Three or the Ancestor spell. He simply stole their active powers. I think the writers had the Source to call Phoebe's power 'the weakest' in order to demonstrate his downfall: not only did Phoebe's premonition of his attack warn the sisters, but the Seer's own premonitions basically led him to make the stupid decision to unleash the Hollow and cause his own death. Of course he did this because he only respected brute force power when he ought to have coveted premonition power/foresight, as it was one of the few powers he didn't possess himself (what did he need freezing, exploding or TK-orbing for, really?). |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2016 9:42:58 GMT -5
Yeah, I remember reading that a lot but I still don't really understand how they could use wires to throw demons/the sisters around in every episode, but they couldn't use them for levitation?
It's true, I've also commented on the regular use of wires. I can't see why they wouldn't be fine for levitation. That is after all how they supposedly had characters like Billie and Katya doing gravity defying stunts. They probably wouldn't be able to have her levitate as steadily like we see in Witchstock, but she could still do her usual levi-jumps and levi-kicks.
Many fans also commented on the episode immediately after Phoebe's powers are taken; in which they have Sigmund performing what is probably the second longest levitation scene in the series.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2016 6:29:11 GMT -5
It's true, I've also commented on the regular use of wires. I can't see why they wouldn't be fine for levitation. That is after all how they supposedly had characters like Billie and Katya doing gravity defying stunts. They probably wouldn't be able to have her levitate as steadily like we see in Witchstock, but she could still do her usual levi-jumps and levi-kicks. Many fans also commented on the episode immediately after Phoebe's powers are taken; in which they have Sigmund performing what is probably the second longest levitation scene in the series. Really don't understand it. I don't know if they didn't want to risk one of the stars of the show being hurt, whereas with stunt doubles that obviously comes with the job. Who knows? They probably just couldn't be bothered. You're right though, it was infuriating to see Billie come on the show doing all these flips and kicks when Phoebe should've be the one doing that! Also, why on earth did they start having Prue do these sort of moves ('Primrose Empath', 'Wrestling with Demons') when Phoebe had JUST been given the levitation power? |
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Post by Esmeralda on Jan 13, 2016 8:04:25 GMT -5
It's true, I've also commented on the regular use of wires. I can't see why they wouldn't be fine for levitation. That is after all how they supposedly had characters like Billie and Katya doing gravity defying stunts. They probably wouldn't be able to have her levitate as steadily like we see in Witchstock, but she could still do her usual levi-jumps and levi-kicks. Many fans also commented on the episode immediately after Phoebe's powers are taken; in which they have Sigmund performing what is probably the second longest levitation scene in the series. Really don't understand it. I don't know if they didn't want to risk one of the stars of the show being hurt, whereas with stunt doubles that obviously comes with the job. Who knows? They probably just couldn't be bothered. You're right though, it was infuriating to see Billie come on the show doing all these flips and kicks when Phoebe should've be the one doing that! Also, why on earth did they start having Prue do these sort of moves ('Primrose Empath', 'Wrestling with Demons') when Phoebe had JUST been given the levitation power? That's easy. Shannen was determined to be the star, part of what got her fired. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2016 16:42:06 GMT -5
Really don't understand it. I don't know if they didn't want to risk one of the stars of the show being hurt, whereas with stunt doubles that obviously comes with the job. Who knows? They probably just couldn't be bothered. You're right though, it was infuriating to see Billie come on the show doing all these flips and kicks when Phoebe should've be the one doing that! Also, why on earth did they start having Prue do these sort of moves ('Primrose Empath', 'Wrestling with Demons') when Phoebe had JUST been given the levitation power? That's easy. Shannen was determined to be the star, part of what got her fired. "But I want to levitate Brad!"  If she was so clued-up about what direction the show should've gone in you'd think she'd had something to say about Prue getting AP as a second power. |
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Post by Esmeralda on Jan 13, 2016 23:19:30 GMT -5
That's easy. Shannen was determined to be the star, part of what got her fired. "But I want to levitate Brad!" If she was so clued-up about what direction the show should've gone in you'd think she'd had something to say about Prue getting AP as a second power. But that was letting her have the first upgrade, letting her remain the star. A lot of times I keep thinking that's what was important to her. I'm a Prue-fan (who had no say in which power she got), just not a Shannen-fan, the way I'm not a PhoeME-fan, but I am an Alyssa-fan. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2016 10:01:28 GMT -5
I know it's been said before, but it really did seem like Prue and Phoebe's second powers were the wrong way around.
Prue could already levitate things, so why not herself? Even the way Prue reacts to getting her astral projection in the episode: "I can move things with my mind, so why not my body?"- would've made more sense had she gotten levitation.
Phoebe goes into a trance when she has premonitions and her mind goes to other places. So why not send an apparition of her to those places? The way Prue's body would react when astral projecting; with the little gasp, was very similar to Phoebe having a vision. I mean, it still wouldn't have anything to do with seeing the future, but it'd at least have a slightly more obvious link in my opinion. Whenever Prue used astral projection to sneak a peek at something like in "Awakening", I always thought that should really be Phoebe's skill. She was the information gatherer of the trio. Then again, needing each other less was always an issue when it came to additional powers.
And then we actually see them developing aspects of each others' powers anyway. As people have said, Prue starts defying gravity and then we have Phoebe's "astral premonitions"; plus she astral projects using spells on a few occasions as well.
Then again, even if the powers didn't particularly fit in my opinion, at least neither of them were overpowered the way Piper was. Or as badly used as empathy was.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2016 14:57:07 GMT -5
I know it's been said before, but it really did seem like Prue and Phoebe's second powers were the wrong way around. Prue could already levitate things, so why not herself? Even the way Prue reacts to getting her astral projection in the episode: "I can move things with my mind, so why not my body?"- would've made more sense had she gotten levitation. Phoebe goes into a trance when she has premonitions and her mind goes to other places. So why not send an apparition of her to those places? The way Prue's body would react when astral projecting; with the little gasp, was very similar to Phoebe having a vision. I mean, it still wouldn't have anything to do with seeing the future, but it'd at least have a slightly more obvious link in my opinion. Whenever Prue used astral projection to sneak a peek at something like in "Awakening", I always thought that should really be Phoebe's skill. She was the information gatherer of the trio. Then again, needing each other less was always an issue when it came to additional powers. And then we actually see them developing aspects of each others' powers anyway. As people have said, Prue starts defying gravity and then we have Phoebe's "astral premonitions"; plus she astral projects using spells on a few occasions as well. Then again, even if the powers didn't particularly fit in my opinion, at least neither of them were overpowered the way Piper was. Or as badly used as empathy was. Couldn't agree more. The original offensive-defensive-instructive power formation ensured that no sister was more important than the other two. I always saw Prue as 'the head' of the family, Piper 'the heart' and Phoebe 'the soul' so, to me, it makes much better sense that Phoebe should've got astral projection given that it is a 'soul', information-gathering power. |
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Post by ljones on Jan 24, 2016 3:55:10 GMT -5
No more or less than the sisters' other abilities. This show has already proven the sisters' ability and willingness to abuse their magical powers every now and then, whether they are using psi powers or spells.
Has empathy ever been handled in that manner before? And the idea that powers are emotionally based contradicts the idea that their abilities are inherited from ancestors. The idea certainly contradicts what was shown in "Astral Monkey".
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Post by ljones on Oct 22, 2016 13:13:51 GMT -5
That's not real healing to me. That's a magical shortcut. In dealing with grief, people should do it naturally.
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Post by yinsoul on Oct 25, 2016 10:41:16 GMT -5
Deano:
"It's a shame that only brute force, transportation/teleportation and healing powers were considered important as the show progressed. The writers got stuck in a rut plot-wise and, in abandoning Phoebe's premonition power, limited themselves a lot. I always felt that Phoebe's psychic powers should've been at the level of Kyra's by Season 8, so as well as seeing the future/past, she would basically be a human lie detector. "
I could not agree more with this. At the end only force was respected, even by the supposed good guys, who you think would know better. Premonitions and the like shouldn't have to be an offensive power to be respected and it baffles me because it seems so wishy-washy in the writing. It was supposed to be a coveted power, and some of the most terrifying and intriguing villains in the show were some form of Seer. But all they had Pheebs do at the end, one of the trio of the most powerful witches in the world mind you, was look for the man who would impregnate her? Come on! I mean sure, a Seer sees what she wishes to with control, but it seemed so banal.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2016 21:28:28 GMT -5
Deano: "It's a shame that only brute force, transportation/teleportation and healing powers were considered important as the show progressed. The writers got stuck in a rut plot-wise and, in abandoning Phoebe's premonition power, limited themselves a lot. I always felt that Phoebe's psychic powers should've been at the level of Kyra's by Season 8, so as well as seeing the future/past, she would basically be a human lie detector. " I could not agree more with this. At the end only force was respected, even by the supposed good guys, who you think would know better. Premonitions and the like shouldn't have to be an offensive power to be respected and it baffles me because it seems so wishy-washy in the writing. It was supposed to be a coveted power, and some of the most terrifying and intriguing villains in the show were some form of Seer. But all they had Pheebs do at the end, one of the trio of the most powerful witches in the world mind you, was look for the man who would impregnate her? Come on! I mean sure, a Seer sees what she wishes to with control, but it seemed so banal. Thanks  The original three powers from Melinda might as well have been Exploding, Orbing and Healing considering how much of a fetish the writers had for them. It's really sad that on the rare occasion that another magical being with a premonition/clairvoyant power was shown they would completely overshadow Phoebe (the Seer, Kyra). As I say, Phoebe should've grown to be able to naturally detect lying, anticipate people's physical movements seconds before they happened and possibly even track people in the present via a vision by the end of Season 8. More and more I am coming to agree with the idea that the sisters should not have gained new powers at all, or at least very minimal progressions, such as: Prue: optically-channelled TK; hand-chanelled TK; deflection via TK; augmented strength via TK (punching/kicking); augmented agility (i.e. hovering/levi-jumps); can push energy in the form of a minor kinetic blast (rudimentary form of energy waves). Piper: slowing down time within a limited range (like her past life); stopping time within a limited range (as was her first power); selective freezing/unfreezing; slowing/stopping time across a broadened range; mixed usage of slowing & stopping time (slows down one person, freezes another); control of the speed of slowing; is able to increase her own speed whilst others are in 'slow mode' (a rudimentary form of hyper speed). Phoebe: visions of the future (premonition); visions of the past (retrocognition); empathic visioning (as seen in 'The Power of Two); ability to interpret disruptions in time (as seen in 'Deja Vu...'); enhanced intuition (i.e. able to detect lying/malicious intent more easily as demonstrated by Paige in 'Size Matters'); augmented senses (can intercept the past/future via smell, hearing, taste and touch as well as through visions); rudimentary astral projection (not so much Prue's power, which was a bit too much like cloning but more of a trance-like ability through in which she could "see" beyond her normal range, such as other planes; people's dreams and even be able to "track" people who are lost - essentially a vision of the present); rudimentary empathy (can interpret people's emotions). Paige: verbally-channelled TK-orbing; non-verbal TK-orbing; TK-orb 'throwing' (as seen in 'Vaya Con Leos'); orb-deflection (similar to the power featured in 'Blinded by the Whitelighter'); orb shield. |
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Post by Darkhorse Christian on Nov 3, 2016 3:42:16 GMT -5
No more or less than the sisters' other abilities. This show has already proven the sisters' ability and willingness to abuse their magical powers every now and then, whether they are using psi powers or spells. Has empathy ever been handled in that manner before? And the idea that powers are emotionally based contradicts the idea that their abilities are inherited from ancestors. The idea certainly contradicts what was shown in "Astral Monkey". That's not real healing to me. That's a magical shortcut. In dealing with grief, people should do it naturally. You really just made the case against emotional manipulation as a power. It would be a magical shortcut to make them feel what you want them to feel so they can do what you want them to do. And saying "oh, the sisters abuse their powers anyway so what's the big deal here" is not an argument. If anything, absorbing and transferring emotions that are already there would be the only way it can work because then she suffers consequences for doing it which forces it to be a rarely-used power. Also, no, there's no contradiction here about emotion/inheritance when it comes to powers on the show. The powers themselves are already naturally there, but how to make them work is often tied to certain emotions. |
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If she was so clued-up about what direction the show should've gone in you'd think she'd had something to say about Prue getting AP as a second power. 
The original three powers from Melinda might as well have been Exploding, Orbing and Healing considering how much of a fetish the writers had for them. It's really sad that on the rare occasion that another magical being with a premonition/clairvoyant power was shown they would completely overshadow Phoebe (the Seer, Kyra). As I say, Phoebe should've grown to be able to naturally detect lying, anticipate people's physical movements seconds before they happened and possibly even track people in the present via a vision by the end of Season 8.