Brad Kern wrote "Witch Trial" - what caused his decline?

[jdpm1991]

Brad Kern was the writer of one of my favorite Sister episodes of Season 2 "Witch Trial", if he can write fantastic episodes like that then why did he become a talentless hack later on? Did he only see $$$?

[farerb]

A lot of writers/showrunners give in to what the studio executives want from the show.

[Deleted]

Feb 24, 2016 4:05:57 GMT -5 farerb said:

A lot of writers/showrunners give in to what the studio executives want from the show.

This short reply actually summed it up pretty well.  Kern was always someone who was in it more for the $$$ than the art, and he was willing to compromise his vision to cater to whatever Spelling and the WB wanted.

Look at Seasons 3 and 4 if you want the most accurate picture of what Kern's vision for the show probably looked like--a darker, more action-heavy series centered around hunting demons and forbidden romance (aka. a poor man's Buffy).  The fairytale fluff and skimpy costumes from Seasons 5-8 were more WB than Kern.

[sol]

He wrote a lot of episodes that I like:
Secrets and Guys, The Power of Two, Ex Libris , All Hell Breaks Loose, Charmed Again, Part 1 and 2, Black as Cole
Witch Way Now, Centennial Charmed, Cat House, Something Wicca This Way Goes, Payback's a Witch, Kill Billie Vol. 2 and one of my favorite, Déjà Vu All Over Again

Among some fans he became an obsession, excessive for a person who is, after all just, a writer

However, it is only questions of personal liking, for example I don't lke Witch Trial!

[lilchi7212]

It's all about ratings

[Sadrick]

I've never watched Buffy before so I can't give my input on that show, but Charmed at its darkest was still very fluffy and cheese-ridden. It felt like there was something missing -- a sense of dynamism and more original less awkward dialogue, for starters. What doesn't help is the absurdly over the top action sequences where you have characters doing impossible jumps, kicks and stunts that no human could physically accomplish. Plus, you have the horrible treatment of long standing characters such as Cole and the horrendous destruction of continuity that make his work on the show look even less appealing. Oh, and let's not forget about the medievalist reject fantasy clothes, jargon and ambiance they started applying to the demons and other creatures in Season 3 which only got worse over time; and that's when they weren't trying to sexualise any and all female villains that came onto the scene.

[Deleted]

Feb 25, 2016 1:46:39 GMT -5 Sadrick said:

I've never watched Buffy before so I can't give my input on that show, but Charmed at its darkest was still very fluffy and cheese-ridden. It felt like there was something missing -- a sense of dynamism and more original less awkward dialogue, for starters. What doesn't help is the absurdly over the top action sequences where you have characters doing impossible jumps, kicks and stunts that no human could physically accomplish. Plus, you have the horrible treatment of long standing characters such as Cole and the horrendous destruction of continuity that make his work on the show look even less appealing. Oh, and let's not forget about the medievalist reject fantasy clothes, jargon and ambiance they started applying to the demons and other creatures in Season 3 which only got worse over time; and that's when they weren't trying to sexualise any and all female villains that came onto the scene.

Yup, "poor man's Buffy" is pretty much right on the mark.

I think Kern wanted to make the show something "bigger" and more "epic," but he just didn't have the writing skills to pull it off.  He always had a terrible sense of continuity, and many of the changes he made in Seasons 3 and 4 only took away from what made the show what it was in the first 2 seasons.  (Like focusing more on Phoebe/Cole and to a lesser extent, Piper/Leo than the Power of Three, or shoehorning in cheesy action scenes like in "Blinded by the Whitelighter" and "Wrestling With Demons.")

[lilchi7212]

Feb 25, 2016 2:22:39 GMT -5 @bettynewbie said:

Feb 25, 2016 1:46:39 GMT -5 Sadrick said:

I've never watched Buffy before so I can't give my input on that show, but Charmed at its darkest was still very fluffy and cheese-ridden. It felt like there was something missing -- a sense of dynamism and more original less awkward dialogue, for starters. What doesn't help is the absurdly over the top action sequences where you have characters doing impossible jumps, kicks and stunts that no human could physically accomplish. Plus, you have the horrible treatment of long standing characters such as Cole and the horrendous destruction of continuity that make his work on the show look even less appealing. Oh, and let's not forget about the medievalist reject fantasy clothes, jargon and ambiance they started applying to the demons and other creatures in Season 3 which only got worse over time; and that's when they weren't trying to sexualise any and all female villains that came onto the scene.

Yup, "poor man's Buffy" is pretty much right on the mark.

I think Kern wanted to make the show something "bigger" and more "epic," but he just didn't have the writing skills to pull it off.  He always had a terrible sense of continuity, and many of the changes he made in Seasons 3 and 4 only took away from what made the show what it was in the first 2 seasons.  (Like focusing more on Phoebe/Cole and to a lesser extent, Piper/Leo than the Power of Three, or shoehorning in cheesy action scenes like in "Blinded by the Whitelighter" and "Wrestling With Demons.")

Maybe what the writers should've done was how do the relationships effect or affect the power of 3 or something like that I don't know maybe they did try it and it didn't work. I know shows do have inconsistency's like we just saw in an episode of Walking Dead on Sunday when walker Deana somehow got outside Alexandria and into the woods when all the other walkers where either killed in town by Rick and the townspeople or were burned down by the lake by Darryl's bazooka or how Jesus managed to untie himself so quickly and somehow run a couple of miles down the road and jump and land on top of the truck that Rick and Darryl were driving back to Alexandria with.

[Deleted]

In her Season Three review, Obscurus Lupa says that this was the point that Charmed started trying to be Buffy. 

Of course, that was the season which was made after Kern seized power.  All he did was prove to the audience that he was no Joss Whedon. 

Look at the direction their careers have taken since Buffy and Charmed ended.  Whedon is a successful movie director (the Marvel movies).  Kern has done nothing but produce flop TV shows.

[adzpower]

I thought Charmed was at it's best during seasons 3-4, having said that. Buffy is one of my other favorite shows of all time. So make of that what you will.

[lilchi7212]

Feb 25, 2016 17:18:09 GMT -5 @tim66 said:

In her Season Three review, Obscurus Lupa says that this was the point that Charmed started trying to be Buffy. 

Of course, that was the season which was made after Kern seized power.  All he did was prove to the audience that he was no Joss Whedon. 

Look at the direction their careers have taken since Buffy and Charmed ended.  Whedon is a successful movie director (the Marvel movies).  Kern has done nothing but produce flop TV shows.

Not true he produced Beauty & the Beast which was a big international seller for the CW Network it's on it's final season starting this summer. Kern also produced two episodes of NCIS New Oreleans.

[Deleted]

Feb 25, 2016 17:18:09 GMT -5 @tim66 said:

In her Season Three review, Obscurus Lupa says that this was the point that Charmed started trying to be Buffy. 

Of course, that was the season which was made after Kern seized power.  All he did was prove to the audience that he was no Joss Whedon.

And, look at how much the focus on sisterhood declined after he took over. Even Season 3 was more about Piper/Leo and Phoebe/Cole than the Power of Three, and Season 4, despite introducing a new half-sister, was all about Phoebe/Cole. The first half of Season 5 was yet more Phoebe/Cole, while Season 6 and early Season 7 seemed to be entirely about Piper/Leo and their children.

The sisters rarely got significant storylines of their own that didn't somehow revolve around their men (with the Source and Avatar storylines being the worst examples... the sisters were basically made adjuncts to Cole and Leo, respectively), and as a result, hardly grew as characters. Stark difference from shows like Buffy and Supernatural, where the lead characters actually had to deal with real trauma and learn and grow from their experiences.

[Deleted]

And, look at how much the focus on sisterhood declined after he took over. Even Season 3 was more about Piper/Leo and Phoebe/Cole than the Power of Three

Yep, the bond of sisters took second place to the romance plots.  And it only got worse.

Season 4, despite introducing a new half-sister, was all about Phoebe/Cole.

Tell me about it.  Poor Paige even got upstaged in her own episode with more Phoebe/Cole hi-jinks.

The sisters rarely got significant storylines of their own that didn't somehow revolve around their men (with the Source and Avatar storylines being the worst examples... the sisters were basically made adjuncts to Cole and Leo, respectively), and as a result, hardly grew as characters.

Kern should never have been put in charge.  Let him write episodes, but don't let him run the show.  However, they did, and he ran it right into the ground.

[sol]

If Joss Whedon was not the son and the granson of well placed screenwriters, he'ld not start to work in Roseanne so young

And Dollhouse is barely watchable

And about obsessions, how forget Buffy and Spike, Spike and Buffy, their violent soft porn sex scene in Smashed?

Fortunately I never had to see anything similar, including beatings, betweenCole and Phoebe


Better the Armani suit demon than the bully vampire with leather jacket

[Esmeralda]

I also like most of the episodes that Brad Kern wrote. I was surprised during a recent rewatch when I'd watch an episode and then do a review, including adding the writer to find how many of his I did like - the exceptions being the season premieres and finales that he wrote and the exception to that is "Witch Trial", "Charmed Again, Part One" and most of "Something Wicca This Way Goes" - just don't like the sisters in the other ones, and I'm quite certain that what I don't like about them is more due to TheWB than Kern himself. Like FareB wrote:

Feb 24, 2016 4:05:57 GMT -5 farerb said:

A lot of writers/showrunners give in to what the studio executives want from the show.

And I think that's what happened to Brad Kern. Hence the reason for my signature.

[ljones]

Yup, "poor man's Buffy" is pretty much right on the mark.

I think Kern wanted to make the show something "bigger" and more "epic," but he just didn't have the writing skills to pull it off. He always had a terrible sense of continuity, and many of the changes he made in Seasons 3 and 4 only took away from what made the show what it was in the first 2 seasons. (Like focusing more on Phoebe/Cole and to a lesser extent, Piper/Leo than the Power of Three, or shoehorning in cheesy action scenes like in "Blinded by the Whitelighter" and "Wrestling With Demons.")

The only reason he focused more on Phoebe and Cole in Season 3 was that they were the new couple at the time. Remember how Prue and Andy dominated Season 1? Or how Piper and Leo dominated Season 2? Then again in Seasons 6 and 7?

The real problem with Kern is that he tried to be another Joss Whedon in regard to story arc and characterization, but he lacked the writing skills . . . or was hampered by the studio to take the show to that level. He was sandbagged by lousy continuity and an inability to let go of the show's third grade morality.

[sol]

Third grade morality? Intriguing, what is? Kant?

[sol]

Feb 26, 2016 7:50:36 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

I also like most of the episodes that Brad Kern wrote. I was surprised during a recent rewatch when I'd watch an episode and then do a review, including adding the writer to find how many of his I did like - the exceptions being the season premieres and finales that he wrote and the exception to that is "Witch Trial" and "Charmed Again, Part One" - just don't like the sisters in the other ones, and I'm quite certain that what I don't like about them is more due to TheWB than Kern himself. Like FareB wrote:

Feb 24, 2016 4:05:57 GMT -5 farerb said:

A lot of writers/showrunners give in to what the studio executives want from the show.

And I think that's what happened to Brad Kern.

Maybe you are right, is the production that order and then I think Kern was more suited to writing episodes without excessive drama
But I found this interview, about  the end of the serie

BK:What most of the fans probably don't realize is that, last year, the show was all but dead. The new regime at the WB, in all of its wisdom, wanted a new direction if they were going to give it another year. They knew that Alyssa, Holly and Rose weren't going to come back for a 9th season (no matter how much they got paid), so the network told me that the only way they'd pick the show up for an 8th season would be if I could come up with a way to build in characters that could potentially "spin off" for a 9th season. That's how I came up with Billie and Christy, which convinced the network at the last minute to pick up the show. Personally, I think both Kaley and Marnette have done an amazing job coming into an existing series and giving it new life; yet, at the same time, it fundamentally changed the show from what it started out to be. But, that's the business of television - do whatever you can to get picked up for another season.


BK then said that  the actress all have a passion to do other things: Alyssa with her charity work, Rose a project of a movei, and Holly both her family and her acting career

I think he's a man who does conscientiously what for which he is paid: a spin off with Wyatt and Chris had been burned by Supernatural, the idea of two powerful witches and sisters, one good and one bad, could be a good idea but as any ideas it'ld take time to be developed properly

[ljones]

Third grade morality? Intriguing, what is? Kant?

No . . . morality for eight year olds. A lot of people still maintain it, even into adulthood.

[Nimue]

Does anyone know whether or not Brad Kern has siblings? This is just a wild guess I'm throwing out there, but if he doesn't have any, that might explain why the sisters bond wasn't as important: he didn't know what it was like to have siblings, didn't have that experience, so he couldn't write about it properly. Constance Burge has two sisters, so she knew how to write a sisterly relationship. Writers are at their best when writing from experience, in my opinion. Like I said before, this is just a theory, and I'm probably wrong, anyway.