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Post by Courtney on Jun 23, 2016 21:57:21 GMT -5
Now we all know that starting from Season 5, the quality of the show started to decline. While I personally enjoyed it still, I've seen reading through the threads that many of you didn't. This is my first post so forgive me if its been discussed, but do you think that Charmed could (and should) have ended with the fourth season?
One rule is that nothing in the storyline can be changed, rather it'll just happen like it always has. Witch Way Now could potentially act as a series finale and the fourth season as a whole brings resolution to most things - Cole and Phoebe, Prue's death and Piper's baby announcement which gives hope to her and Leo's marriage. Paige would essentially be the Billie but a much better one.
The actual series finale felt too 'neat' and didn't leave any thing open ended which I don't personally like. It's good to tie certain things up, but if Witch Way Now was the final episode it leaves a lot more room for the viewer to draw their own conclusions. Also, Cole's character should definitely have been left in Season Four so I'm happy enough to bring that chapter to a close.
What are your thoughts? Do you think this could work, or would it feel too abrupt? We'd lose some good things like Xankou and Chris, but would avoid poor material like Billie, Christie and all the campy mythical beings.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2016 22:37:29 GMT -5
As much as I like Chris and Zankou, I have to say yes. The main story of the show mostly ended with the Source's vanquish, and it's painfully obvious that the writers ran out of ideas after that.
Of course, if Charmed was going to end with Season 4, I would've way preferred it with Prue instead of Paige. Paige would've undoubtedly felt like an extraneous, pointless character had her first season been her only season, and she probably would've been hated worse than Billie.
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Post by StoryGirl83 on Jun 23, 2016 23:40:18 GMT -5
That would have been an interesting challenge for the writers, if they knew season four was the last, but they still had to bring in a new sister. If you were a writer on Charmed, in charge of plotting out the final season (four) and you had to bring in a new sister, because whatever the reasons behind Shannen's departure, she was gone, how would you have handled the final season with a new sister. What storylines might you have altered, deleted, or brought in? How would you attempt to get people to accept Paige into the fandom?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2016 0:38:07 GMT -5
As I have said, the storyline of Charmed ended with Season Four. The Source was gone, the sisters had fulfilled their destiny, Prue was avenged. Story's over.
There was no need, and no point, continuing the show. As I have said, it would be like continuing The Fugitive once the One Armed Man had been caught and Dr. Kimble was cleared. Can't be done, the story is over. Same with Charmed after Season Four.
Alyssa and Holly's contracts were up, and Rose would have been happy. She only signed on because she thought this was a one year thing, two tops.
Four seasons would be enough for the syndication package, so they would still make money off reruns, DVD/Blue Ray, Netflix, etc.
Besides, if Charmed had ended after Season Four, it might be better regarded that it is now. No later seasons means no Magical Community, no Not!warts, no Avatars, no Billie and Christy, and no Forever Charmed. Yeah, we'd lose the Charmed Sons and Zankou, but those are sacrifices I'd be willing to make.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2016 10:10:32 GMT -5
That would have been an interesting challenge for the writers, if they knew season four was the last, but they still had to bring in a new sister. If you were a writer on Charmed, in charge of plotting out the final season (four) and you had to bring in a new sister, because whatever the reasons behind Shannen's departure, she was gone, how would you have handled the final season with a new sister. What storylines might you have altered, deleted, or brought in? How would you attempt to get people to accept Paige into the fandom? That's a good question. Season 4 ironically owes much of its popularity in the fandom to Seasons 5-8. The later seasons went so far off track that Season 4 feels like the last of the "good seasons" in comparison. However, the season wasn't even remotely seen that way when it first aired. A lot of fans revolted at the idea of bringing in a new long lost sister, and the show's ratings outright collapsed midway through the season. "A Paige From The Past" was the show's lowest rated episode until Season 6's "Witch Wars," and Season 4 was considered the lowest rated season until Season 7. The Phoebe/Cole story also played a role in turning fans away, many of whom felt that the show had been derailed from its original premise. I'm not sure how the season would've been best handled had it been planned as a final season, yet still had to bring in Paige. I probably would've scrapped the Phoebe/Cole stuff and focused on introducing Paige, mourning Prue, and defeating the Source, writing the season as both a new Season 1 and as a final season. |
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Post by Esmeralda on Jun 24, 2016 17:15:25 GMT -5
Now we all know that starting from Season 5, the quality of the show started to decline. While I personally enjoyed it still, I've seen reading through the threads that many of you didn't. This is my first post so forgive me if its been discussed, but do you think that Charmed could (and should) have ended with the fourth season? One rule is that nothing in the storyline can be changed, rather it'll just happen like it always has. Witch Way Now could potentially act as a series finale and the fourth season as a whole brings resolution to most things - Cole and Phoebe, Prue's death and Piper's baby announcement which gives hope to her and Leo's marriage. Paige would essentially be the Billie but a much better one. The actual series finale felt too 'neat' and didn't leave any thing open ended which I don't personally like. It's good to tie certain things up, but if Witch Way Now was the final episode it leaves a lot more room for the viewer to draw their own conclusions. Also, Cole's character should definitely have been left in Season Four so I'm happy enough to bring that chapter to a close. What are your thoughts? Do you think this could work, or would it feel too abrupt? We'd lose some good things like Xankou and Chris, but would avoid poor material like Billie, Christie and all the campy mythical beings. First, welcome to the Cafe! Next IF the producers truly knew that S4 was going to be the last season I would've preferred them leaving Paige out. A while back Assassin Witch came up with an idea that I've always liked. She wondered what could that season been like had it just been Piper and Phoebe (and Leo and Cole) trying to continue on without the Power of Three - without Prue - with them deciding to give up their powers at the end. As you said otherwise Paige would've been too much like Billie - just an extra jammed into our faces for the last season which should've been about the "real" Charmed Ones, not this new one who had all of these strange powers and was much more whitelighter than witch. If you HAD to stick with what happened during that season, I really don't think you would've had to change much, except not have Cole show up once he's vanquished in 'Long Live the Queen', giving him much better closure than something as stupid as the Demonic Wasteland, which meant "vanquish" never truly meant vanquish, but just banish. 'Witch Way Now?' was set up to be a series finale just in case The WB decided the fans weren't going to accept Paige as a Charmed One and cancel the series (a good possibility since the ratings did go down) or if either Holly Marie Combs or Alyssa Milano decided against signing their second contract, just like 'Oh, My Goddess!' was set up in case Brian Krause didn't sign his second contract and 'Something Wicca This Way Goes' was set up in case the series didn't get renewed. Any of these would've made much better series finales than 'Forever Charmed' for the exact reason that you mentioned - not leaving the door open for speculation and a possible future TV movie or series. I know other fans will feel differently, but for me, ending it with Season Four and never meeting the gypsies, the Crone, Kyra, Drake, Zankou, Little Wyatt, Elder Sandra and Henry would've been worth it to never meet Big Wyatt (either evil or good) Chris (any version), Billie, Christy, Inspector Sheridan, Murphy, Gideon, Odin, Jason, Richard, Leslie, Brody, Coop, Dex, whatever that British guy's name was, the trolls, the Nymphs, the Titans, the Valkyries, and so many others whom I'd just as soon forget. It's why I just have the first three seasons on DVD and don't plan on ever getting any others - that's what I count as the "real" Charmed. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2016 21:39:49 GMT -5
Yep, beyond a shadow of a doubt for me. I always joke that 'Witch Way Now?' was the finale of Charmed and 'A Witch's Tail' was the premiere of Twice-Blessed. As others have said, the end of Season 4 feels neat enough to be a season finale as it features the denouement of the show's finest battle - the Charmed Ones v. the Source of All Evil. That's why I feel Seasons 5-8 is not Charmed at all, because the show had few places left to go except toward the next generation of Halliwells (hence my Twice-Blessed joke).
However, I will say that skipping Season 5 and 6 and watching 7 straight after 4 (with an imaginary 'Two Years Later' jump in mind) works very well provided you start with 'Styx Feet Under' and cut-out crap episodes such as 'Horny Gods Come a-Knocking', 'sleeper Rides Bareback', 'Pirates Plunder', 'PMS Monsters: An CGI Travesty', 'Grams' Obligatory Annual Guest Appearance' and 'Robin Hood, the Pantomime' then it's a decent season. Without the aforementioned episodes I would've preferred this as a last season, even before Season 4, as:
- Paige would get more well-deserved time and I liked her with Kyle.
- After the death of the Sources; Half-Face and Cole; it makes sense that the Avatars would swarm into the vacuum left by them. They are a much more worthy storyline in my eyes than SuperWomb/Twice-Blessed Brat, Greek Dress-Up Gods, Evil Elders, Phoebe and Cole divorce drama, Mad Cole or Piper and Leo's marital mess.
- I think 'Something Wicca...' is a better series finale than 'Witch Way Now?' or 'Forever Charmed'.
- Oddly the sisters are more tolerable in Season 7 than in 5, 6 or 8.
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Post by West on Jun 24, 2016 23:09:54 GMT -5
Yep, beyond a shadow of a doubt for me. I always joke that 'Witch Way Now?' was the finale of Charmed and 'A Witch's Tail' was the premiere of Twice-Blessed. As others have said, the end of Season 4 feels neat enough to be a season finale as it features the denouement of the show's finest battle - the Charmed Ones v. the Source of All Evil. That's why I feel Seasons 5-8 is not Charmed at all, because the show had few places left to go except toward the next generation of Halliwells (hence my Twice-Blessed joke). However, I will say that skipping Season 5 and 6 and watching 7 straight after 4 (with an imaginary 'Two Years Later' jump in mind) works very well provided you start with 'Styx Feet Under' and cut-out crap episodes such as 'Horny Gods Come a-Knocking', 'sleeper Rides Bareback', 'Pirates Plunder', 'PMS Monsters: An CGI Travesty', 'Grams' Obligatory Annual Guest Appearance' and 'Robin Hood, the Pantomime' then it's a decent season. Without the aforementioned episodes I would've preferred this as a last season, even before Season 4, as: - Paige would get more well-deserved time and I liked her with Kyle. - After the death of the Sources; Half-Face and Cole; it makes sense that the Avatars would swarm into the vacuum left by them. They are a much more worthy storyline in my eyes than SuperWomb/Twice-Blessed Brat, Greek Dress-Up Gods, Evil Elders, Phoebe and Cole divorce drama, Mad Cole or Piper and Leo's marital mess. - I think 'Something Wicca...' is a better series finale than 'Witch Way Now?' or 'Forever Charmed'. - Oddly the sisters are more tolerable in Season 7 than in 5, 6 or 8. Actually you make a great point. Skipping 5 and 6 and going to 7. I would of liked that so much more. However this would work more if Witch Way Now didnt exist as the season 4 ender so no Piper pregnant until end of season 5 and Something Wicca. Piper and her sisters leave the manor and their lives behind forever and Pipers pregnant is revealed here. The only reason is Piper suddenly having two children if you skip 5 and 6. Is my issue unless shes not pregnant or had kids and season 7 is just the same only no kids. I do love the idea of season 5 being a reworking of season 7 as the last season. I like the idea of even a 2 year time jump. Only if Paige stays at Social Services having been promoted and Phoebe has a new job after leaving Bay Mirror to use her degree for a better job with no celebrity status. Maybe Piper has already had one child if season 4 still ends with her pregnant. Although i prefer her still childless and pregnant near the end of season 5 with 7s storylines reworked. Deano your ideas are great. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2016 23:28:24 GMT -5
In her Charmed Reviews, Obscurus Lupa pointed out that many feel that Season Four was the last of the good seasons. And she's not even a fan. If she could pick up on that, then it's no doubt correct.
It's no wonder that so many AU stories begin after Season Four.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2016 23:52:24 GMT -5
In her Charmed Reviews, Obscurus Lupa pointed out that many feel that Season Four was the last of the good seasons. And she's not even a fan. If she could pick up on that, then it's no doubt correct. It's no wonder that so many AU stories begin after Season Four. Yet, when the season originally aired, it was regarded more as Season 8 is today. Season 5 was so bad that it was able to vindicate Season 4 and turn it from being the least popular season into one of the most popular. Ironically, a lot of fans of Season 4 might not like the season nearly as much had it been the show's last. I know Paige would be nearly as hated as Billie, that's for sure. The Phoebe/Cole story would probably be seen as the derailment of the show rather than its peak. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 0:28:29 GMT -5
Actually you make a great point. Skipping 5 and 6 and going to 7. I would of liked that so much more. However this would work more if Witch Way Now didnt exist as the season 4 ender so no Piper pregnant until end of season 5 and Something Wicca. Piper and her sisters leave the manor and their lives behind forever and Pipers pregnant is revealed here. The only reason is Piper suddenly having two children if you skip 5 and 6. Is my issue unless shes not pregnant or had kids and season 7 is just the same only no kids. I do love the idea of season 5 being a reworking of season 7 as the last season. I like the idea of even a 2 year time jump. Only if Paige stays at Social Services having been promoted and Phoebe has a new job after leaving Bay Mirror to use her degree for a better job with no celebrity status. Maybe Piper has already had one child if season 4 still ends with her pregnant. Although i prefer her still childless and pregnant near the end of season 5 with 7s storylines reworked. Deano your ideas are great. Thanks West, much appreciated. Although I can't take credit for skipping Seasons 5 & 6 as Es suggested it to me way back last year when I was on a mini-marathon. She knew I wasn't a fan of those seasons and told me a friend of hers (whose name I've forgotten) had skipped them and imagined Season 7 as 'Two Years Later'. I tried it and really liked it, especially by starting off with 'Styx Feet Under'. Es' friend pointed out that without Season 5, Cole's reappearance in 'Seven Year Witch' is actually better because you don't have to suffer his antics from Season 5 - it just seems as if he faded away after 'Witch Way Now?' and never came back until SYW. Also we get a much less selfish Phoebe, 'Styx...' sees her "get back" her premonition power which is confusing if you were erasing S5/6 from memory but as it's supposed to be 'Two Years Later' we can just assume that she "lost her way" after becoming Queen Evil. Another plus point includes no pointless divorce for Piper and Leo. By the start of Season 7 there are sort of "together" and Leo's recruitment as an Avatar is actually a much better "marital problem" for the couple than his becoming an Elder. Also, no ditzy Paige and her hideous hair colours  Of course this is all just IF you are planning on skipping "the real" S5/6. If I could completely erase them from existence I would, and would make much of "the real" Season 7 the new "Season 5". I guess Piper could remain childless until the finale, as you sugguest, but part of me would love to see her pregnant as Leo joins the Avatars, and then Chris would come back to stop Leo and the Avatars ruining the world - one which would be the Avatars' "Utopia" controlled by Future Wyatt. Chris would still be killed by Gideon (who I re-imagine as Head Avatar) and the sisters would need to stop him enacting Utopia before Piper gives birth. God, my head is spinning now...  |
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Post by unakite on Jun 25, 2016 1:50:05 GMT -5
I think the same thing: Season 4 was designed with a very strong role for Prue
It would be difficult to introduce Phoebe's turning into the Queen of Evil but it would have an intense dramatic impact
Leo and Cole were a fascinating couple: the good man who became an angel and the pitiless demon who wants, and fails, to become a good man
I disagree, Wyatt remained in the shadows like any child, but the theme of the future of magic was almost a duty
Season 5 and season 6 were filmed after 9/01/2001, my father told me that it was asked the writers of whichever show to lighten themes and episodes, the insertion of an enchanted world of childhood was considered a way to entertain and relax
Wyatt 's birth was thought, in addition to the seed for a possible spin-off, as token of a future of peace, hope, thanks to the charm of the good magic symbolized by the unicorn
I prefer having eight seasons, despite the defects
The Charmed Ones deserved more time, and in five years they have introduced very important issues, which have also inspired other tv show:
-the concept that love, even the great love as Romeo and Juliet, can be destructive
-the uncertainty of the future of the family, anguish of every parent , personified by sons as Wyatt and Chris, that could be a source of good and are a source of confusion, in the present and in the future
-the effort to understand what is right and what is wrong for the human world, see Avatars 's storyline
A storyline too rushed, but original and actual, given that we are living in a world where millions of people believe in a world without free will
-the betrayal of those who you believe friends, one of the most painful betrayals
I would prefer eight season with the original Charmed Ones, Paige is nice, but not in synergy with a trio of sisters
Would Piper be able to step out of Prue's shadow, in this case?
I think yes: Phoebe turning would have sparked mixed reactions among the two sisters, rebelling against Prue's hardness, Piper would find the strength to become a woman less doubtful and insecure
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Post by West on Jun 25, 2016 6:29:47 GMT -5
Actually you make a great point. Skipping 5 and 6 and going to 7. I would of liked that so much more. However this would work more if Witch Way Now didnt exist as the season 4 ender so no Piper pregnant until end of season 5 and Something Wicca. Piper and her sisters leave the manor and their lives behind forever and Pipers pregnant is revealed here. The only reason is Piper suddenly having two children if you skip 5 and 6. Is my issue unless shes not pregnant or had kids and season 7 is just the same only no kids. I do love the idea of season 5 being a reworking of season 7 as the last season. I like the idea of even a 2 year time jump. Only if Paige stays at Social Services having been promoted and Phoebe has a new job after leaving Bay Mirror to use her degree for a better job with no celebrity status. Maybe Piper has already had one child if season 4 still ends with her pregnant. Although i prefer her still childless and pregnant near the end of season 5 with 7s storylines reworked. Deano your ideas are great. Thanks West, much appreciated. Although I can't take credit for skipping Seasons 5 & 6 as Es suggested it to me way back last year when I was on a mini-marathon. She knew I wasn't a fan of those seasons and told me a friend of hers (whose name I've forgotten) had skipped them and imagined Season 7 as 'Two Years Later'. I tried it and really liked it, especially by starting off with 'Styx Feet Under'. Es' friend pointed out that without Season 5, Cole's reappearance in 'Seven Year Witch' is actually better because you don't have to suffer his antics from Season 5 - it just seems as if he faded away after 'Witch Way Now?' and never came back until SYW. Also we get a much less selfish Phoebe, 'Styx...' sees her "get back" her premonition power which is confusing if you were erasing S5/6 from memory but as it's supposed to be 'Two Years Later' we can just assume that she "lost her way" after becoming Queen Evil. Another plus point includes no pointless divorce for Piper and Leo. By the start of Season 7 there are sort of "together" and Leo's recruitment as an Avatar is actually a much better "marital problem" for the couple than his becoming an Elder. Also, no ditzy Paige and her hideous hair colours Of course this is all just IF you are planning on skipping "the real" S5/6. If I could completely erase them from existence I would, and would make much of "the real" Season 7 the new "Season 5". I guess Piper could remain childless until the finale, as you sugguest, but part of me would love to see her pregnant as Leo joins the Avatars, and then Chris would come back to stop Leo and the Avatars ruining the world - one which would be the Avatars' "Utopia" controlled by Future Wyatt. Chris would still be killed by Gideon (who I re-imagine as Head Avatar) and the sisters would need to stop him enacting Utopia before Piper gives birth. God, my head is spinning now... Some great ideas. So much better. Es has some great ideas. I do like it this way. |
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Jun 25, 2016 7:54:47 GMT -5
Thanks West, much appreciated. Although I can't take credit for skipping Seasons 5 & 6 as Es suggested it to me way back last year when I was on a mini-marathon. She knew I wasn't a fan of those seasons and told me a friend of hers (whose name I've forgotten) had skipped them and imagined Season 7 as 'Two Years Later'. I tried it and really liked it, especially by starting off with 'Styx Feet Under'. Es' friend pointed out that without Season 5, Cole's reappearance in 'Seven Year Witch' is actually better because you don't have to suffer his antics from Season 5 - it just seems as if he faded away after 'Witch Way Now?' and never came back until SYW. Also we get a much less selfish Phoebe, 'Styx...' sees her "get back" her premonition power which is confusing if you were erasing S5/6 from memory but as it's supposed to be 'Two Years Later' we can just assume that she "lost her way" after becoming Queen Evil. Another plus point includes no pointless divorce for Piper and Leo. By the start of Season 7 there are sort of "together" and Leo's recruitment as an Avatar is actually a much better "marital problem" for the couple than his becoming an Elder. Also, no ditzy Paige and her hideous hair colours Of course this is all just IF you are planning on skipping "the real" S5/6. If I could completely erase them from existence I would, and would make much of "the real" Season 7 the new "Season 5". I guess Piper could remain childless until the finale, as you sugguest, but part of me would love to see her pregnant as Leo joins the Avatars, and then Chris would come back to stop Leo and the Avatars ruining the world - one which would be the Avatars' "Utopia" controlled by Future Wyatt. Chris would still be killed by Gideon (who I re-imagine as Head Avatar) and the sisters would need to stop him enacting Utopia before Piper gives birth. God, my head is spinning now... Some great ideas. So much better. Es has some great ideas. I do like it this way. Es doesn't have great ideas - she just recognizes good ideas when they pop up and always want to share them with others. Most of my opinions are based on other things that I've read and that ring a bell within me as "Yeah! That makes sense!" So many of them have come from IMDb - I'm glad I know how to ignore trolls and just have fun concentrating on the wonderful ideas their members come up with, as you well know, West, since that's where I first saw you. That idea was from a member named Dstarr who unfortunately didn't stick around very long, but I'm *SO* glad she offered that idea before she left. I was going to use her ideas during one of my re-watches and ended up posting this regarding that: I have a question Es. Will you be doing all 8 seasons, or just the first three or four? No, Seer, I'm not. As I've said in a number of other threads (so anyone who's already read this, just skip this post..) I'm doing it a different way in hoping that I'll be able to enjoy more of Charmed than just the first three seasons as I have during previous re-watches. Dstarr was the one who suggested it, but rather than linking to her thread I'll just tell you that she suggested watching S1-4 and skipping S5 & 6 - just pretending that there's a sign that says "Two Years Later". She also suggested SKIPPING the following S7 episodes: A Call to Arms Bare Witch Project Cheaper by the Coven Charrrmed Someone to Witch Over Me Once in a Blue Moon Ordinary Witches Imaginary Friends And, of course, she totally skips the travesty that is S8. She pointed out that doing it this way, the Avatar plot that dragged on for 13 episodes is now limited to 6 and by skipping S5 and S6 and those S7 episodes, their attitudes make more sense - Piper seems to be like she was in S4; Phoebe's experience as Queen of the Underworld seems to have matured her, and the experience has made Paige more comfortable with her sisters. Dstarr also said that without the background of the changes in the sisters as shown in S5 and S6, the parts of the Avatar plot that bugged her so much after watching Seasons Five and Six first didn't bug her as much this way. Dstarr also pointed out that this version of Charmed gives Cole and Phoebe better closure. She is very obsessive about Cole, and hates how Kern misused him and turned him into the obsessed stalker of Season 5, making a mockery of his and Phoebe's love. Like me, she said she tends to think that if he really loved Phoebe, instead of stalking and tormenting her, he would leave her alone and let her move on. Besides, his vanquish is a lot more memorable in Season Four than in 'Centennial Charmed', besides it truly being Phoebe who helped vanquish him, not an alternate version with Paige’s help. Instead, 'Witch Way Now' shows that he had enough strength to return to save her life, but Dstarr interprets on her own that he lost his strength and faded into the limbo that we see in 'Seven Year Witch'. And she thinks that him helping her move on by introducing her to Drake makes the perfect closure. That’s why for fans who love Phoebe and Cole (which I don't right now but I might after this re-watch), she thinks that watching these episodes directly after Season Four is so much better. Like me, she also sees very little similarities in what the Avatars in S5 did and the ones in S7 did, so this takes away that consistency problem. I'm also hoping that doing it this way will change my reaction towards Leo and Piper, once my own favorite couple but anything but once Leo became an Elder. I know I liked them as a couple when I re-watched 'Scry Hard' and 'Little Box of Horrors' on TNT during a vacation, so I hope this will help put them back in that spot. Dstarr said that she likes watching 'Styx Feet Under' as the S7 premiere because it has them trying to protect an innocent. She said she thinks it's more suitable than 'A Witch's Tail' or 'A Call to Arms' since they decided at the end of S4 to keep their powers in order to continue their destiny to help innocents - not protect the Twice Blessed Brat as is shown to be their new destiny in S5 and S6, the reason she skips 'Someone to Witch Over Me'. 'Imaginary Fiends' and 'Cheaper by the Coven'. Like me, she can't stand Wyatt having a million powers and being more powerful than his mother and aunts - this way he is never referred to as a twice-blessed child and the only powers he shows are orbing and his shield, both which make sense for a baby who has a whitelighter for a father, powers Baby Chris *might* have but are just never shown. I'm very eager to see if this change changes my reaction towards Piper, Phoebe, Paige, Leo and Cole, all characters I slowly learned to hate during S4 - in some cases like Piper and Phoebe, even more than I did before - mainly because of what happens in S5 and S6, but because I've discovered my memory for the earlier episodes has gotten so bad, that's why I'm doing my full re-watch, but done this way. Oh, doing it this way is *not* something I would recommend to people who are watching Charmed for the first time - some fans do like those missing seasons and I've never felt it's my place to tell people what they should or shouldn't like. And, of course, if they like those seasons (yes, Chrisaholic, I'm especially thinking of you...), then they should watch them and enjoy them. But for anyone who doesn't like the changes in the main characters, I highly recommend giving this a try. Unfortunately, my own re-watch ended after 'Sleuthing with the Enemy' - after seeing how horribly my favorite character, Phoebs, changed and already not liking Piper and now beginning to not like Prue (the Kern Effect, of course), I never did buy the other DVDs or give this a try. But I'm so glad that Deano did and that he enjoyed it. I'd love to see others give it a try and see what they think. But I'll always give credit for this idea to Dstarr. |
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Post by West on Jun 25, 2016 9:36:53 GMT -5
Some great ideas. So much better. Es has some great ideas. I do like it this way. Es doesn't have great ideas - she just recognizes good ideas when they pop up and always want to share them with others. Most of my opinions are based on other things that I've read and that ring a bell within me as "Yeah! That makes sense!" So many of them have come from IMDb - I'm glad I know how to ignore trolls and just have fun concentrating on the wonderful ideas their members come up with, as you well know, West, since that's where I first saw you. That idea was from a member named DStarr who unfortunately didn't stick around very long, but I'm *SO* glad she offered that idea before she did. I was going to use her ideas during one of my re-watches and ended up posting this regarding that: No, Seer, I'm not. As I've said in a number of other threads (so anyone who's already read this, just skip this post..) I'm doing it a different way in hoping that I'll be able to enjoy more of Charmed than just the first three seasons as I have during previous re-watches. Dstarr was the one who suggested it, but rather than linking to her thread I'll just tell you that she suggested watching S1-4 and skipping S5 & 6 - just pretending that there's a sign that says "Two Years Later". She also suggested SKIPPING the following S7 episodes: A Call to Arms Bare Witch Project Cheaper by the Coven Charrrmed Someone to Witch Over Me Once in a Blue Moon Ordinary Witches Imaginary Friends And, of course, she totally skips the travesty that is S8. She pointed out that doing it this way, the Avatar plot that dragged on for 13 episodes is now limited to 6 and by skipping S5 and S6 and those S7 episodes, their attitudes make more sense - Piper seems to be like she was in S4; Phoebe's experience as Queen of the Underworld seems to have matured her, and the experience has made Paige more comfortable with her sisters. She also said that without the background of the changes in the sisters as shown in S5 and S6, the parts of the Avatar plot that bugged her so much when she watched Seasons Five and Six first didn't bug her as much this way. She also pointed out that this version of Charmed gives Cole and Phoebe better closure. She is very obsessive about Cole, and hates how Kern misused him and turned him into the obsessed stalker in Season 5, making a mockery of his and Phoebe's love. Like me, she said she tends to think that if he really loved Phoebe, instead of stalking and tormenting her, he would leave her alone and let her move on. Besides, his vanquish is a lot more memorable in Season Four than in "Centennial Charmed", besides it truly being Phoebe who helped vanquish him, not an alternate version with Paige’s help. Instead, “Witch Way Now” shows that he had enough strength to return to save her life, but Dstarr interprets on her own that he lost his strength and faded into the limbo that we see in “Seven Year Witch”. And she thinks that him helping her move on by introducing her to Drake makes the perfect closure. That’s why for fans who love Phoebe and Cole (which I don't right now but I might after this re-watch), she thinks that watching these episodes directly after Season Four is so much better. Like me, she also sees very little similarities in what the Avatars in S5 did and the ones in S7 did, so this takes away that consistency problem. I'm also hoping that doing it this way will change my reaction towards Leo and Piper, once my own favorite couple but anything but once Leo became an Elder. I know I liked them as a couple when I re-watched 'Scry Hard' and 'Little Box of Horrors' on TNT during a vacation, so I hope this will help put them back in that spot. Dstarr said that she likes watching 'Styx Feet Under' as the S7 premiere because it has them trying to protect an innocent. She said she thinks it's more suitable than 'A Witch's Tail' or 'A Call to Arms' since they decided at the end of S4 to keep their powers in order to continue their destiny to help innocents - not protect the Twice Blessed Brat as is shown to be their new destiny in S5 and S6, the reason she skips 'Someone to Witch Over Me'. 'Imaginary Fiends' and 'Cheaper by the Coven'. Like me, she can't stand Wyatt having a million powers and being more powerful than his mother and aunts - this way he is never referred to as a twice-blessed child and the only powers he shows are orbing and his shield, both which make sense for a baby who has a whitelighter for a father, powers Baby Chris *might* have but are just never shown. I'm very eager to see if this change changes my reaction towards Piper, Phoebe, Paige, Leo and Cole, all characters I slowly learned to hate during S4 - in some cases like Piper and Phoebe, even more than I did before - mainly because of what happens in S5 and S6, but because I've discovered my memory for the earlier episodes has gotten so bad, that's why I'm doing my full re-watch, but done this way. Oh, doing it this way is *not* something I would recommend to people who are watching Charmed for the first time - some fans do like those missing seasons and I've never felt it's my place to tell people what they should or shouldn't like. And, of course, if they like those seasons (yes, Chrisacholic, I'm especially thinking of you...), then they should watch them and enjoy them. But for anyone who doesn't like the changes in the main characters, I highly recommend giving this a try. Unfortunately, my own re-watch ended after 'Sleuthing with the Enemy' - after seeing how horribly my favorite character, Phoebs, changed and already not liking Piper and now beginning to not like Prue (the Kern Effect, of course), I never did buy the other DVDs or give this a try. But I'm so glad that Deano did and that he enjoyed it. I'd love to see others give it a try and see what they think. But I'll always give credit for this idea to DStarr. Thanks sharing that. And its true about IMDB ignoring trolls and enjoying the discussions. Thats completely fine. I did a rewatch last year and i never got past Wrestling with Demons. Although i stopped because of other shows i watched. But what happened to Prue/Phoebe's relationship was never the same and Phoebe. Was nice watching it with new eyes and being older. Because the Prue/Phoebe relationship interested me more on a rewatch and i loved them getting closer. It made me sad where it ended up between them. But people can watch what they like. I know season 6 has so many issues for me when i rewatched that. But i still found quite a few episodes that i did enjoy. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 11:26:44 GMT -5
Thankfully, the racists, homophobes and pedophiles have more or less stayed out of the Charmed section, for now at least.
That's why we need the Cafe. Those kind of people would not be allowed to post here.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 13:45:16 GMT -5
Some great ideas. So much better. Es has some great ideas. I do like it this way. Es doesn't have great ideas - she just recognizes good ideas when they pop up and always want to share them with others. Most of my opinions are based on other things that I've read and that ring a bell within me as "Yeah! That makes sense!" So many of them have come from IMDb - I'm glad I know how to ignore trolls and just have fun concentrating on the wonderful ideas their members come up with, as you well know, West, since that's where I first saw you. That idea was from a member named Dstarr who unfortunately didn't stick around very long, but I'm *SO* glad she offered that idea before she left. I was going to use her ideas during one of my re-watches and ended up posting this regarding that: No, Seer, I'm not. As I've said in a number of other threads (so anyone who's already read this, just skip this post..) I'm doing it a different way in hoping that I'll be able to enjoy more of Charmed than just the first three seasons as I have during previous re-watches. Dstarr was the one who suggested it, but rather than linking to her thread I'll just tell you that she suggested watching S1-4 and skipping S5 & 6 - just pretending that there's a sign that says "Two Years Later". She also suggested SKIPPING the following S7 episodes: A Call to Arms Bare Witch Project Cheaper by the Coven Charrrmed Someone to Witch Over Me Once in a Blue Moon Ordinary Witches Imaginary Friends And, of course, she totally skips the travesty that is S8. She pointed out that doing it this way, the Avatar plot that dragged on for 13 episodes is now limited to 6 and by skipping S5 and S6 and those S7 episodes, their attitudes make more sense - Piper seems to be like she was in S4; Phoebe's experience as Queen of the Underworld seems to have matured her, and the experience has made Paige more comfortable with her sisters. Dstarr also said that without the background of the changes in the sisters as shown in S5 and S6, the parts of the Avatar plot that bugged her so much after watching Seasons Five and Six first didn't bug her as much this way. Dstarr also pointed out that this version of Charmed gives Cole and Phoebe better closure. She is very obsessive about Cole, and hates how Kern misused him and turned him into the obsessed stalker of Season 5, making a mockery of his and Phoebe's love. Like me, she said she tends to think that if he really loved Phoebe, instead of stalking and tormenting her, he would leave her alone and let her move on. Besides, his vanquish is a lot more memorable in Season Four than in 'Centennial Charmed', besides it truly being Phoebe who helped vanquish him, not an alternate version with Paige’s help. Instead, 'Witch Way Now' shows that he had enough strength to return to save her life, but Dstarr interprets on her own that he lost his strength and faded into the limbo that we see in 'Seven Year Witch'. And she thinks that him helping her move on by introducing her to Drake makes the perfect closure. That’s why for fans who love Phoebe and Cole (which I don't right now but I might after this re-watch), she thinks that watching these episodes directly after Season Four is so much better. Like me, she also sees very little similarities in what the Avatars in S5 did and the ones in S7 did, so this takes away that consistency problem. I'm also hoping that doing it this way will change my reaction towards Leo and Piper, once my own favorite couple but anything but once Leo became an Elder. I know I liked them as a couple when I re-watched 'Scry Hard' and 'Little Box of Horrors' on TNT during a vacation, so I hope this will help put them back in that spot. Dstarr said that she likes watching 'Styx Feet Under' as the S7 premiere because it has them trying to protect an innocent. She said she thinks it's more suitable than 'A Witch's Tail' or 'A Call to Arms' since they decided at the end of S4 to keep their powers in order to continue their destiny to help innocents - not protect the Twice Blessed Brat as is shown to be their new destiny in S5 and S6, the reason she skips 'Someone to Witch Over Me'. 'Imaginary Fiends' and 'Cheaper by the Coven'. Like me, she can't stand Wyatt having a million powers and being more powerful than his mother and aunts - this way he is never referred to as a twice-blessed child and the only powers he shows are orbing and his shield, both which make sense for a baby who has a whitelighter for a father, powers Baby Chris *might* have but are just never shown. I'm very eager to see if this change changes my reaction towards Piper, Phoebe, Paige, Leo and Cole, all characters I slowly learned to hate during S4 - in some cases like Piper and Phoebe, even more than I did before - mainly because of what happens in S5 and S6, but because I've discovered my memory for the earlier episodes has gotten so bad, that's why I'm doing my full re-watch, but done this way. Oh, doing it this way is *not* something I would recommend to people who are watching Charmed for the first time - some fans do like those missing seasons and I've never felt it's my place to tell people what they should or shouldn't like. And, of course, if they like those seasons (yes, Chrisaholic, I'm especially thinking of you...), then they should watch them and enjoy them. But for anyone who doesn't like the changes in the main characters, I highly recommend giving this a try. Unfortunately, my own re-watch ended after 'Sleuthing with the Enemy' - after seeing how horribly my favorite character, Phoebs, changed and already not liking Piper and now beginning to not like Prue (the Kern Effect, of course), I never did buy the other DVDs or give this a try. But I'm so glad that Deano did and that he enjoyed it. I'd love to see others give it a try and see what they think. But I'll always give credit for this idea to Dstarr. Dstarr, of course! That's for re-posting this, Es, as she did raise some excellent points. I know this wouldn't necessarily suit you as you don't even enjoy Season 4, but for those of us who do like Season 4 (but not S5 & S6) this viewing order has been something of a revelation - I can actually re-watch the show without feeling like I have to trudge my way through S5/S6 (something I only did because I liked S7). Dstarr makes some excellent points - Cole and Phoebe do indeed get much better closure this way and her explanation for Cole's disappearance after 'Witch Way Now?' after saving Phoebe (being trapped in Limbo) must've been where I got the idea for my alternative S5 in which Cole and Prue meeting in Limbo (which West and I just discussed above). I also completely agree with her on Phoebe, she is SO much more likeable in S7 than S5, S6 and arguably S4 (she returns to form in S8 though). I thin kthe combination over her getting her premonition power back, her concern for Paige over Brody and her reduced scenes as the Bay Mirror is the reason for this. Plus if you miss out the episodes I mentioned earlier (similar to Dstarr) you only have to suffer Leslie in 'Styx Feet Under'. Perfect! The only place where Dstarr and I differ is that I kept in 'Someone to Witch Over Me' and 'Ordinary Witches' as I liked the Avatar storyline. But I totally agree on the other episodes, they are poor at best and I even forgot that Wyatt's Twice-Blessedness isn't even referred to this way, all the better. Thanks sharing that. And its true about IMDB ignoring trolls and enjoying the discussions. Thats completely fine. I did a rewatch last year and i never got past Wrestling with Demons. Although i stopped because of other shows i watched. But what happened to Prue/Phoebe's relationship was never the same and Phoebe. Was nice watching it with new eyes and being older. Because the Prue/Phoebe relationship interested me more on a rewatch and i loved them getting closer. It made me sad where it ended up between them. But people can watch what they like. I know season 6 has so many issues for me when i rewatched that. But i still found quite a few episodes that i did enjoy. I also came up with a different viewing order in which I essentially condensed S5 & S6 into one season, taking the best (in my view) from both. It went like this: - The Eyes Have It - San Francisco Dreamin' - The Day the Magic Died - Baby's First Demon - Sense and Sense Ability - Necromancing the Stone - Cat House This is a very short section of S5 but it completely avoids Cole's return, which most fans hated. Also, by watching 'Cat House' last it makes it seem like a mid-season finale as the ending foreshadows Piper and Leo's forthcoming marital problems. Picking up with 'Forget Me... Not' and it is established that it is sometime later and that they are no longer together (why suffer Gods in Dress-Up or Valley of the Pornstars?). - Forget Me... Not - The Power of Three Blondes (don't like this ep, but most fans do) - Love's a Witch - Soul Survivor - Little Monsters - Chris-Crossed - The Legend of Sleepy Halliwell - I Dream of Phoebe - The Courtship of Wyatt's Father - Spin City - Crimes and Witch Demeanors - It's a Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad World (Part 1) - It's a Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad World (Part 2) I would stop at 'Courtship...' personally as I'm not a fans of the remaining four episodes but the Gideon story would end a little abruptly that way so you might want to include them. If not, the end of 'Courtship...' kind of establishes that Gideon is the Big Bad, so if you want to dive straight to 'Styx Feet Under' from there, it is made clear that Big Chris was killed. |
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Post by Courtney on Jun 25, 2016 19:04:09 GMT -5
Wow thanks for some amazing and detailed responses, it's always a question I've thought over myself. I can't believe it took me this long to join the forum, I've been a huge fan of the show for so long
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Post by Courtney on Jun 25, 2016 19:05:07 GMT -5
Es doesn't have great ideas - she just recognizes good ideas when they pop up and always want to share them with others. Most of my opinions are based on other things that I've read and that ring a bell within me as "Yeah! That makes sense!" So many of them have come from IMDb - I'm glad I know how to ignore trolls and just have fun concentrating on the wonderful ideas their members come up with, as you well know, West, since that's where I first saw you. That idea was from a member named Dstarr who unfortunately didn't stick around very long, but I'm *SO* glad she offered that idea before she left. I was going to use her ideas during one of my re-watches and ended up posting this regarding that: Unfortunately, my own re-watch ended after 'Sleuthing with the Enemy' - after seeing how horribly my favorite character, Phoebs, changed and already not liking Piper and now beginning to not like Prue (the Kern Effect, of course), I never did buy the other DVDs or give this a try. But I'm so glad that Deano did and that he enjoyed it. I'd love to see others give it a try and see what they think. But I'll always give credit for this idea to Dstarr. Dstarr, of course! That's for re-posting this, Es, as she did raise some excellent points. I know this wouldn't necessarily suit you as you don't even enjoy Season 4, but for those of us who do like Season 4 (but not S5 & S6) this viewing order has been something of a revelation - I can actually re-watch the show without feeling like I have to trudge my way through S5/S6 (something I only did because I liked S7). Dstarr makes some excellent points - Cole and Phoebe do indeed get much better closure this way and her explanation for Cole's disappearance after 'Witch Way Now?' after saving Phoebe (being trapped in Limbo) must've been where I got the idea for my alternative S5 in which Cole and Prue meeting in Limbo (which West and I just discussed above). I also completely agree with her on Phoebe, she is SO much more likeable in S7 than S5, S6 and arguably S4 (she returns to form in S8 though). I thin kthe combination over her getting her premonition power back, her concern for Paige over Brody and her reduced scenes as the Bay Mirror is the reason for this. Plus if you miss out the episodes I mentioned earlier (similar to Dstarr) you only have to suffer Leslie in 'Styx Feet Under'. Perfect! The only place where Dstarr and I differ is that I kept in 'Someone to Witch Over Me' and 'Ordinary Witches' as I liked the Avatar storyline. But I totally agree on the other episodes, they are poor at best and I even forgot that Wyatt's Twice-Blessedness isn't even referred to this way, all the better. Thanks sharing that. And its true about IMDB ignoring trolls and enjoying the discussions. Thats completely fine. I did a rewatch last year and i never got past Wrestling with Demons. Although i stopped because of other shows i watched. But what happened to Prue/Phoebe's relationship was never the same and Phoebe. Was nice watching it with new eyes and being older. Because the Prue/Phoebe relationship interested me more on a rewatch and i loved them getting closer. It made me sad where it ended up between them. But people can watch what they like. I know season 6 has so many issues for me when i rewatched that. But i still found quite a few episodes that i did enjoy. I also came up with a different viewing order in which I essentially condensed S5 & S6 into one season, taking the best (in my view) from both. It went like this: - The Eyes Have It - San Francisco Dreamin' - The Day the Magic Died - Baby's First Demon - Sense and Sense Ability - Necromancing the Stone - Cat House This is a very short section of S5 but it completely avoids Cole's return, which most fans hated. Also, by watching 'Cat House' last it makes it seem like a mid-season finale as the ending foreshadows Piper and Leo's forthcoming marital problems. Picking up with 'Forget Me... Not' and it is established that it is sometime later and that they are no longer together (why suffer Gods in Dress-Up or Valley of the Pornstars?). - Forget Me... Not - The Power of Three Blondes (don't like this ep, but most fans do) - Love's a Witch - Soul Survivor - Little Monsters - Chris-Crossed - The Legend of Sleepy Halliwell - I Dream of Phoebe - The Courtship of Wyatt's Father - Spin City - Crimes and Witch Demeanors - It's a Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad World (Part 1) - It's a Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad World (Part 2) I would stop at 'Courtship...' personally as I'm not a fans of the remaining four episodes but the Gideon story would end a little abruptly that way so you might want to include them. If not, the end of 'Courtship...' kind of establishes that Gideon is the Big Bad, so if you want to dive straight to 'Styx Feet Under' from there, it is made clear that Big Chris was killed. I'm re-watching the show right now and am almost finished the second season. Do these alterations of Season's 5 and 6 work well enough, or does it feel too choppy? I'm going away in September so I need to cut it down. If the condensed fifth and sixth season works, I'll probably end it on Season Seven starting with Styx Feet Under too. I'm just hesitant to make these changes because I've only ever watched the series right through without changing anything in my re runs |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 20:07:50 GMT -5
Well, yet another thread has been hijacked by Chris/Wyatt/Season 6 bashing.  I thought this was a Charmed forum, not an anti-Charmed Sons one. The number of TCS supporters might be smaller than it was 10 years ago, but we're still out there, and we're tired of constantly having to defend our liking of Chris on what should be a safe space for all Charmed fans. |
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I thought this was a Charmed forum, not an anti-Charmed Sons one. The number of TCS supporters might be smaller than it was 10 years ago, but we're still out there, and we're tired of constantly having to defend our liking of Chris on what should be a safe space for all Charmed fans.