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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 20:46:01 GMT -5
Dstarr, of course! That's for re-posting this, Es, as she did raise some excellent points. I know this wouldn't necessarily suit you as you don't even enjoy Season 4, but for those of us who do like Season 4 (but not S5 & S6) this viewing order has been something of a revelation - I can actually re-watch the show without feeling like I have to trudge my way through S5/S6 (something I only did because I liked S7). Dstarr makes some excellent points - Cole and Phoebe do indeed get much better closure this way and her explanation for Cole's disappearance after 'Witch Way Now?' after saving Phoebe (being trapped in Limbo) must've been where I got the idea for my alternative S5 in which Cole and Prue meeting in Limbo (which West and I just discussed above). I also completely agree with her on Phoebe, she is SO much more likeable in S7 than S5, S6 and arguably S4 (she returns to form in S8 though). I thin kthe combination over her getting her premonition power back, her concern for Paige over Brody and her reduced scenes as the Bay Mirror is the reason for this. Plus if you miss out the episodes I mentioned earlier (similar to Dstarr) you only have to suffer Leslie in 'Styx Feet Under'. Perfect! The only place where Dstarr and I differ is that I kept in 'Someone to Witch Over Me' and 'Ordinary Witches' as I liked the Avatar storyline. But I totally agree on the other episodes, they are poor at best and I even forgot that Wyatt's Twice-Blessedness isn't even referred to this way, all the better. I also came up with a different viewing order in which I essentially condensed S5 & S6 into one season, taking the best (in my view) from both. It went like this: - The Eyes Have It - San Francisco Dreamin' - The Day the Magic Died - Baby's First Demon - Sense and Sense Ability - Necromancing the Stone - Cat House This is a very short section of S5 but it completely avoids Cole's return, which most fans hated. Also, by watching 'Cat House' last it makes it seem like a mid-season finale as the ending foreshadows Piper and Leo's forthcoming marital problems. Picking up with 'Forget Me... Not' and it is established that it is sometime later and that they are no longer together (why suffer Gods in Dress-Up or Valley of the Pornstars?). - Forget Me... Not - The Power of Three Blondes (don't like this ep, but most fans do) - Love's a Witch - Soul Survivor - Little Monsters - Chris-Crossed - The Legend of Sleepy Halliwell - I Dream of Phoebe - The Courtship of Wyatt's Father - Spin City - Crimes and Witch Demeanors - It's a Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad World (Part 1) - It's a Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad World (Part 2) I would stop at 'Courtship...' personally as I'm not a fans of the remaining four episodes but the Gideon story would end a little abruptly that way so you might want to include them. If not, the end of 'Courtship...' kind of establishes that Gideon is the Big Bad, so if you want to dive straight to 'Styx Feet Under' from there, it is made clear that Big Chris was killed. I'm re-watching the show right now and am almost finished the second season. Do these alterations of Season's 5 and 6 work well enough, or does it feel too choppy? I'm going away in September so I need to cut it down. If the condensed fifth and sixth season works, I'll probably end it on Season Seven starting with Styx Feet Under too. I'm just hesitant to make these changes because I've only ever watched the series right through without changing anything in my re runs To be honest, it might be a little too choppy for you, it's certainly not the smoothest of ways to re-watch, a fair few "fill in the blank" moments between episodes so if you don't want that I would maybe suggest just skipping from S4 to S7 as first discussed. |
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Post by Assassin Witch on Jun 25, 2016 20:46:26 GMT -5
I'm not sure how this thread has turned into S6 bashing and it's not been hijacked.
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Chris
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Post by Chris on Jun 26, 2016 1:51:33 GMT -5
I'm not sure how this thread has turned into S6 bashing and it's not been hijacked. I have to agree with Jackie... Betty, would you like to point out where the bashing started? I see no signs of it. |
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Post by Assassin Witch on Jun 26, 2016 12:20:00 GMT -5
No, let's not do that. There is no need to continue this discussion, just focus on the topic.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Jun 26, 2016 12:30:10 GMT -5
Wow thanks for some amazing and detailed responses, it's always a question I've thought over myself. I can't believe it took me this long to join the forum, I've been a huge fan of the show for so long  You're welcome! I'm so very glad you finally decided to join us. |
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Jun 26, 2016 12:54:55 GMT -5
I'm re-watching the show right now and am almost finished the second season. Do these alterations of Season's 5 and 6 work well enough, or does it feel too choppy? I'm going away in September so I need to cut it down. If the condensed fifth and sixth season works, I'll probably end it on Season Seven starting with Styx Feet Under too. I'm just hesitant to make these changes because I've only ever watched the series right through without changing anything in my re runs To be honest, it might be a little too choppy for you, it's certainly not the smoothest of ways to re-watch, a fair few "fill in the blank" moments between episodes so if you don't want that I would maybe suggest just skipping from S4 to S7 as first discussed. Yeah, if this is one of your first re-watches, you might want to first re-watch the whole thing and decide what does or doesn't bother you, and then start over with S4 and continue whatever will make the rest of Charmed enjoyable for you. Some fans like the entire series, so then they should just re-watch the others. Some like DStarr don't like the way Cole was handled in S5 or having Wyatt be so powerful or the differences in the Avatars between S5 and S7, so she came up with her method. Deano likes the Avatars, so he keeps more. It's totally up to you how you want to do it so you can enjoy Charmed YOUR way! |
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Post by StoryGirl83 on Jun 26, 2016 13:22:08 GMT -5
It's not Charmed, but I have watched the series Hogan's Heroes at least half a dozen times mostly through. Not a lot of connected stories there, so skipping stuff doesn't make much of a difference. After the third or so rewatch I started skipping certain episodes to the point where my series finale was the second to last episode, because the series finale included elements I didn't care for . . . mostly too much making out, not enough sabotage. I rewatched that episode my last rewatch and if wasn't as bad as I thought. I've watched it so much, because it's very mindless, easy fun that I can pay attention when I want to and multitask a lot. It's very relaxing that way.
Just finished rewatching Numb3rs and I got to certain points where I fast forwarded through scenes, because I didn't feel like they added to the story and didn't interest me. I didn't skip any full episodes like I did with Hogan's Heroes, but they are much more connected that it is.
I think after a few rewatches of Charmed I would have a pretty good idea of what episodes to skip (if any) and which to watch. I think my Charmed rewatch would be more like Numb3rs, skipping scenes rather than episodes. Can we just eliminate the characters of Gideon and Odin and . . . how about Elders in general. I would be okay with skipping through most of that, but not necessarily the whole episode that they are in, because most episodes have something to recommend them somewhere and of those most have reason to watch the whole episode, at least in my opinion. If nothing else they are excellent fodder for fanfics. Don't like it? Rewrite it. I prefer to figure out how I would have done something different. I have a lot of rewrites, because they are so much fun and when I get to the end of one, I think of something else I would have liked to have done instead. It doesn't mean I dislike the original, just my imagination likes to run wild.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 16:12:21 GMT -5
It's not Charmed, but I have watched the series Hogan's Heroes at least half a dozen times mostly through. Not a lot of connected stories there, so skipping stuff doesn't make much of a difference. After the third or so rewatch I started skipping certain episodes to the point where my series finale was the second to last episode, because the series finale included elements I didn't care for . . . mostly too much making out, not enough sabotage. I rewatched that episode my last rewatch and if wasn't as bad as I thought. I've watched it so much, because it's very mindless, easy fun that I can pay attention when I want to and multitask a lot. It's very relaxing that way. Just finished rewatching Numb3rs and I got to certain points where I fast forwarded through scenes, because I didn't feel like they added to the story and didn't interest me. I didn't skip any full episodes like I did with Hogan's Heroes, but they are much more connected that it is. I think after a few rewatches of Charmed I would have a pretty good idea of what episodes to skip (if any) and which to watch. I think my Charmed rewatch would be more like Numb3rs, skipping scenes rather than episodes. Can we just eliminate the characters of Gideon and Odin and . . . how about Elders in general. I would be okay with skipping through most of that, but not necessarily the whole episode that they are in, because most episodes have something to recommend them somewhere and of those most have reason to watch the whole episode, at least in my opinion. If nothing else they are excellent fodder for fanfics. Don't like it? Rewrite it. I prefer to figure out how I would have done something different. I have a lot of rewrites, because they are so much fun and when I get to the end of one, I think of something else I would have liked to have done instead. It doesn't mean I dislike the original, just my imagination likes to run wild. Great response, StoryGirl.  I've thought about it some more, and I've realized that I cannot honestly say "yes" to the question posed by this thread. To automatically write off the entirety of Seasons 5-8 assumes that nothing of value came from those seasons, which is very false. I loved Zankou as a Big Bad, and I enjoyed the latter half of Season 7. I also liked Henry and his relationship with Paige, and I wish he had been brought into the show earlier. And, of course, I absolutely LOVED Chris and his storyline and all of the potential it held. How could a former member and supporter of the TCS spinoff campaign ever want Chris and Wyatt erased from existence? In fact, I love all of these things far more than the whiny half-faced Source or Phoebe/Cole/Seer borefest from the "beloved" Season 4. Why should I have to give up all of these things I love from Seasons 5-8, yet still have to keep things that I hate from Season 4? All because of crap like fairytale creatures, sexy costumes, Not!warts, and "Witchstock"? StoryGirl has the right idea. Instead of whining about the later seasons and wishing them wiped from existence, why not try to fix them and do them right? This what I'd would've rather seen from Charmed instead of just erasing everything after "Witch Way Now": - Prue lives and Phoebe dies - Season 4 is dedicated to mourning Phoebe, introducing Paige, and fighting against the Source (who is the scary, mysterious cloaked figure from AHBL) - Seasons 5 and 6 are dedicated to Chris, Wyatt, the Seer, and Zankou - Prue and Cole set their differences aside and develop a relationship - Paige meets Henry in Season 5 and develops a relationship with him - Leo remains a whitelighter and never becomes an Elder, Avatar, or Doormat - No Not!warts, fairytale creatures, skimpy costumes, or any other filler crap - Seasons 4-6 are a combination of all of the best parts of Seasons 4-8 without any of the bad parts, all while still sticking to the tone that was established in Seasons 1-3 |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 16:40:42 GMT -5
Of course, Hogan's Heroes was made fifty years ago. Back then, most Prime Time shows were all standalone episodes, so if you missed an episode or two, you would not be left behind (remember this was long before VCR's and such). Continuing storylines were more or less confined to the daytime soap operas.
Continuing storylines on Prime Time shows didn't really get going until the 1980's, with shows such as Dallas, Dynasty, Falcon Crest, etc. This trend continued into the 90's with Beverly Hills 90210, Melrose Place, etc.
Even Science Fiction shows started using this trend, with shows such as the X-Files, Babylon Five, and Stargate SG1 (some of the criticisms leveled against the later Trek shows like Voyager was their refusal to adapt to this new format). The idea of everyone happily back on the Bridge at the end was rapidly becoming outmoded. The trend continued into the 21st Century with Stargate Atlantis and Universe, as well as the Battlestar Galactica reboot.
Now continuing story arcs are the norm on Prime Time shows, not the exception.
Toss in a Rex and Hannah return, and I pretty much agree with all of this.
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Post by Courtney on Jun 26, 2016 19:49:35 GMT -5
To be honest, it might be a little too choppy for you, it's certainly not the smoothest of ways to re-watch, a fair few "fill in the blank" moments between episodes so if you don't want that I would maybe suggest just skipping from S4 to S7 as first discussed. Yeah, if this is one of your first re-watches, you might want to first re-watch the whole thing and decide what does or doesn't bother you, and then start over with S4 and continue whatever will make the rest of Charmed enjoyable for you. Some fans like the entire series, so then they should just re-watch the others. Some like DStarr don't like the way Cole was handled in S5 or having Wyatt be so powerful or the differences in the Avatars between S5 and S7, so she came up with her method. Deano likes the Avatars, so he keeps more. It's totally up to you how you want to do it so you can enjoy Charmed YOUR way! This is my third or fourth watch. I've decided to just watch it all the way through again because I do have a soft spot for Paige and I've started the re-run that way. S4 can be really alienating for me though, because Prue is my favourite sister and S3 for me is the best, so if I didn't have the later seasons with Paige I actually agree I probably wouldn't like her just because I'd feel like she is a replacement rather than an actual sister. Next time I watch the series, I'll skip the filler episodes of S1 and S2 to make about 16 episode seasons and watch pretty much all of S3 and S4. I might consider ending it at Witch Way Now, or if I don't I'll alter S5 and S6 to not include any Cole whose character was completely ruined and also take out the bad parts like the S5 avatars and most of Wyatt's superpowers. I'll definitely end it on S7 with the Zankou storyline; this way I can have more freedom to interpret what happens to the sisters after the finale |
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Post by West on Jun 27, 2016 0:03:21 GMT -5
Yeah, if this is one of your first re-watches, you might want to first re-watch the whole thing and decide what does or doesn't bother you, and then start over with S4 and continue whatever will make the rest of Charmed enjoyable for you. Some fans like the entire series, so then they should just re-watch the others. Some like DStarr don't like the way Cole was handled in S5 or having Wyatt be so powerful or the differences in the Avatars between S5 and S7, so she came up with her method. Deano likes the Avatars, so he keeps more. It's totally up to you how you want to do it so you can enjoy Charmed YOUR way! This is my third or fourth watch. I've decided to just watch it all the way through again because I do have a soft spot for Paige and I've started the re-run that way. S4 can be really alienating for me though, because Prue is my favourite sister and S3 for me is the best, so if I didn't have the later seasons with Paige I actually agree I probably wouldn't like her just because I'd feel like she is a replacement rather than an actual sister. Next time I watch the series, I'll skip the filler episodes of S1 and S2 to make about 16 episode seasons and watch pretty much all of S3 and S4. I might consider ending it at Witch Way Now, or if I don't I'll alter S5 and S6 to not include any Cole whose character was completely ruined and also take out the bad parts like the S5 avatars and most of Wyatt's superpowers. I'll definitely end it on S7 with the Zankou storyline; this way I can have more freedom to interpret what happens to the sisters after the finale I agree. I loved season 7 as the final and left wondering what happens and not Kern spoon feeding us everything. Happy ending but not so over the top. |
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Post by erikamarie on Jun 27, 2016 2:57:29 GMT -5
I think the same thing: Season 4 was designed with a very strong role for Prue It would be difficult to introduce Phoebe's turning into the Queen of Evil but it would have an intense dramatic impact Leo and Cole were a fascinating couple: the good man who became an angel and the pitiless demon who wants, and fails, to become a good man I disagree, Wyatt remained in the shadows like any child, but the theme of the future of magic was almost a duty Season 5 and season 6 were filmed after 9/01/2001, my father told me that it was asked the writers of whichever show to lighten themes and episodes, the insertion of an enchanted world of childhood was considered a way to entertain and relax Wyatt 's birth was thought, in addition to the seed for a possible spin-off, as token of a future of peace, hope, thanks to the charm of the good magic symbolized by the unicorn I prefer having eight seasons, despite the defects The Charmed Ones deserved more time, and in five years they have introduced very important issues, which have also inspired other tv show: -the concept that love, even the great love as Romeo and Juliet, can be destructive -the uncertainty of the future of the family, anguish of every parent , personified by sons as Wyatt and Chris, that could be a source of good and are a source of confusion, in the present and in the future -the effort to understand what is right and what is wrong for the human world, see Avatars 's storyline A storyline too rushed, but original and actual, given that we are living in a world where millions of people believe in a world without free will -the betrayal of those who you believe friends, one of the most painful betrayals I would prefer eight season with the original Charmed Ones, Paige is nice, but not in synergy with a trio of sisters Would Piper be able to step out of Prue's shadow, in this case? I think yes: Phoebe turning would have sparked mixed reactions among the two sisters, rebelling against Prue's hardness, Piper would find the strength to become a woman less doubtful and insecure I agree and I think that according to the original intention, the strong division between the sisters would have allowed Piper to step out of Prue's sway and become more independent |
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Post by Chrisaholic on Jun 27, 2016 9:26:07 GMT -5
I bet that CB had a great concept for the show and also its possible storyline if it went on. Yet all changed somehow drastically when BK took over who seemed to be known for great story arcs, though when it came to women, he simply couldn't do it. Obviously. Again, if maybe the storylines for S5 following were better planned and written out, the show would have had a chance to survive longer. That's what I think.
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Jun 28, 2016 0:59:09 GMT -5
I think the series should have ended after Season 7.
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Jun 28, 2016 2:06:19 GMT -5
True we would've been spared the horror of season 8 and the Charmed Ones could've had their normal lives living out their secret identities.
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Post by West on Jun 28, 2016 4:22:30 GMT -5
True we would've been spared the horror of season 8 and the Charmed Ones could've had their normal lives living out their secret identities. Agreed. They could havd had the manor being completely destroyed, like they used with Kill Billie. Vol 2 after the battle with Zankou. It makes way more sense that the Charmed Ones left San Francisco and started a new life elsewhere. It bugs me they stayed in town even with new identities. Come on, who falls for three cousins living in the manor suddenly. Demons cant be that dumb. However the ending in Something Wicca to me implies they would leave San Francisco. Had that been the end. Why would they still stay. A new life means starting elsewhere. The ending in Something Wicca. It felt like a decent ending and leaves more mystery on what happens to them next. I just loved the eery music and sound of Prue's ghost (presumably) closing the door one last time. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2016 11:43:29 GMT -5
It's quite clear that Something Wicca This Way Goes was intended as the Series Finale. The sisters going off to live new lives until the Charmed Sons were ready to assume their duties.
No one thought the show would be renewed. As I have said, the only reason it was is because the WB needed to fill a hole in their schedule.
Not to mention two of them having the exact same jobs as their "dead cousins". Duhhhhhhhh...
Of course, the Budget Nuke of 2005 is to blame for that. They couldn't afford to construct new sets, and leaving the Paramount Lot to shoot or location was also beyond their means. So they had to come up with this lame cousins idea, because they had to keep them living in the Manor.
It's no wonder they abandoned this whole new identity thing only a few episodes into the season. The Budget Nuke made that storyline unworkable.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2016 11:47:57 GMT -5
I'm with you both, MelindaHalliwell and West73. I loved "Something Wicca" as a series finale (more than "Witch Way Now," in fact), and I always hated how Season 8's existence sort of "ruined" that finale. Plus, as I said earlier, there's a lot of things I like from Seasons 6 and 7 I'd rather not get rid of (aka. Chris, Zankou, latter half of Season 7). It's not fair to penalize the good parts of the later seasons because of the crap parts.
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Jun 28, 2016 13:08:57 GMT -5
Well if the first part of season 8 had being done probably or rewritten correctly till the sisters got their identities back then there would've been nothing connecting the Charmed Ones to who they were I.E they wouldn't have lived in the Manor or had the same cars, wore different shoes and clothes, acted differently to how Piper, Paige and Phoebe did, not worked their jobs and had Wyatt and Chris stay with Victor the whole time which they could've done minus Coop and Dex and the other non essential guest stars paraded around or Phoebe's condo leaving them money to do that then.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2016 15:51:32 GMT -5
True we would've been spared the horror of season 8 and the Charmed Ones could've had their normal lives living out their secret identities. Agreed. They could havd had the manor being completely destroyed, like they used with Kill Billie. Vol 2 after the battle with Zankou. It makes way more sense that the Charmed Ones left San Francisco and started a new life elsewhere. It bugs me they stayed in town even with new identities. Come on, who falls for three cousins living in the manor suddenly. Demons cant be that dumb. However the ending in Something Wicca to me implies they would leave San Francisco. Had that been the end. Why would they still stay. A new life means starting elsewhere. The ending in Something Wicca. It felt like a decent ending and leaves more mystery on what happens to them next. I just loved the eery music and sound of Prue's ghost (presumably) closing the door one last time. You're so right, a Kill Billie-style explosion at the end of 'Something Wicca...' would've made it such an impactful series finale. After all, you can't "win" without having to lose things precious to you in the process, which the sisters had learned time and time again. So, as heartbreaking as it would've been to see the beautiful Manor in ruins, it would be bittersweet moment because the sisters, and the audience, would understand that it was necessary to stop Zankou. It also would've signalled the end of an era as the sisters retire and go off to lead their coveted normal lives - kind of like Sunnydale being destroyed in BtVS (if I dare to compare!). What would've made it even more epic would've been if Shannen could've been persuaded back for 'Death Becomes Them' instead of Inspector whats-his-name. |
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