Charmed Psych 101 Kate - Meg - Beth

[Deleted]

she lands an easy job with her own office and later is somewhat famous

Oh, don't get me started on that.  Phoebe is just handed the job, she presents no resume, or credentials of any kind, they just give it to her.  I'm sorry, but that's NOT how the real world works.

And just a few months later, she's treated like an A-List Hollywood celebrity.   An advice columnist!?  No way, not buying it.

[adzpower]

One thing that this episode started was Phoebe's acknowledgment that she was not contributing to the household financially, we see this come up a lot in season one before it reaches a head in "The Power of Two", some good storytelling there for Phoebe's character.

We also see that in this episode, Piper is very fragile, her discovery of witchcraft, her boyfriend trying to kill her, the great trauma of Prue and Phoebe arguing really reached a head and she just couldn't take it anymore, I love that in the end Phoebe gave her a lovely pep-talk and we learn that she is a good witch, some good set-up there to define the difference between a good witch, and an evil one.

I will also say that Prue is a massive hypocrite this episode! Telling Phoebe off but using her own power to shoot the clock out the window, Prue can control her powers and she knows full-well that Phoebe doesn't have that option! Definitely a case of her thinking that because she's the oldest, she gets to boss the younger two around and act like she's above it all. Thankfully she grows out of this pretty quickly.

[ShadowCat]

I am sorry but I realize that I should not continue with this thread. I stated what I thought it should be and it has taken a left turn on a red light. I had a brother that was a nark and I do not wish to go there. The comments on Phoebe moved into later seasons. We really can't examine how she got there if we don't stay on target. My bad to think I could even set this up. You win Tim.

[ShadowCat]

Greetings fellow Charmed patrons.

First I apologize for abandoning my own thread so early in the game. Part of it was due to an infestation that I didn't think I could work with, but after some encouraging messages from CYMA, my faith in this has been restored. Secondly, the RW got in the way of my working on this. I hate it when that happen.

I think perhaps part of the problem was that I created this with very narrow thinking. Staying on topic can be a trial, but limiting thoughts of others can be a turn off. Now I really want to try and examine Charmed episode by episode and not jumping into the future, but even I couldn't do that well as I did make a comment on Andy that we couldn't have understood with out moving forward. So with some effort maybe I can fix this so we can have the best of everything.

What I would like attempt is sub-dividing the episodes so other remarks can be added and refered back to.

The major portion of this thread should stay on topic from show to show from a psychological point of view. Most of us have played shrink at some point in our lives with friends and family, so here we will be that person and pretend we are part of the magical community where we council The Charmed Ones. We can analyze anyone that is in the lives of the sisters. Roger, should proved to be an interesting nut case. All of these comments should come under the heading of "CHARMED PSYCH 101"

When you notice something that will take you out of the episode, that only a seasoned veteran of the show would know, sight the case. CYMA informed me that there is something regarding Roger/Phoebe of importance, but would have brought us into the future. I agree with her that if you don't get it out there when it hits you, down the line you might forget about it. When you move in this direction put it under the caption of "FOR FUTURE REFERENCE". If you know the episode, great .... if not, don't worry about it as we will run into it later.

I think we can add another line of thinking to this. I just re watch the first two episodes and observed something I had never paid attention to. I am not sure if I should call this "CAUSE AND EFFECT" or FATE VS. COINCIDENCE". Since I suspect that very little of Charmed hinges on coincidence I am going to go with the former. I will give examples of this shortly.

I am going to try and bring this back to The Cafe without rehashing to much of what has already been brought to this thread, but if contributors what to restate their ideas as we are working on an early do over, please feel free.

We we all work together our Cafe might be the first to really delve deeply into the workings of Charmed. At some point for you writers out there, this could be a published effort and an exhaustive research book on a show that long after its demise still has power. 

The formatting I am hoping others will like would look something like this. NOTE: I am so open to suggestion as this is a group effort. Thank you. ShadowCat

CHARMED PSYCH 101

          Season 1 ... Episode 1 .... ("Something Wicca This Way Comes") Oct. 7, 1998

With the possible exception of Piper, both Prue and Phoebe appear to have daddy issues. Prue's seem to depend on what she knows from the mind of a child. This could be a double whammy as both mom &dad departed for one reason or another when she was too young to deal with it. Phoebe on the other hand never really got to know either of them. Mommy at this point is out of reach, but daddy is still out there. Prue might not want to deal with this, but Phoebe is young enough with little necessary baggage in the responsibility department, so she can hit the road and seek out her roots.

Roger's actions scream total narcissist. How Prue ever aligned herself with him on a romantic level I will never understand. My only thought is that perhaps at this point there had not been many men in her life due to her constantly being the one who was expected to be responsible and take charge. Andy may have been her first love, but with the comment from Piper about Prue having sex with someone else other than herself, I have to wonder if there were few entanglement between the time of Andy and Roger. The Prue we see as time unfolds tells me she isn't a person that would give Roger the right time of day.

Roger gives me no indication that he was ever a person of honor or discipline. When Prue says to Roger, "Don't threaten me", he reply's "You know me, I had to try". That's a tell. He goes on to say, "I realize I had to say something, if only to avoid a law-suit." At this point I would have thanked him for the heads-up and called an attorney. To make the situation even more interesting, even Roger knows he's a pile of crap on a cracker, when he states ... if he didn't do what he did the board would put a total stranger in (his place). To me this says that he is aware that the powers that be would dump him before her. He try's to convince Prue that she is nothing without him, yet the truth comes from his own lips that even he knows he is the needy one. With all this in place it wouldn't have been hard for me to believe Phoebe about Roger.

Jeremy is another narcissist in a world the everyday citizen has little knowledge of. Isn't it lovely to know that narcissism knows no boundaries? We think we know little about him, but on closer inspection we discover that though he is not the brightest tool in the box, he does appear to have important information. He knew that Grams had to die before the girls powers would come into play. He waited, but did not just report for the newspaper, he gathered powers from at least 3 other witches before he attacked Piper. Though he seems to be acting alone he mentioned that others like himself would be coming, so his connection to the underworld is confirmed. To me this is a needy baby, greedy baby that threw caution to the wind to satisfy his need for power. What he knew about the sisters looks to be limited when he says before blasting his way into the attic ...."My powers are stronger that yours". This over indulged, egotistical warlock didn't do his homework. From where I am sitting, he did not know they were the charmed ones. Also, they managed to blast him straight into next week with the simplest of spells. THE POWER OF THREE WILL SET US FREE. Now I ask you, in or out of the magical world can't you just see Jeremy and Roger enjoying a few rounds of beer together?

FOR FUTURE REFERENCE

I stated this earlier but I don't have much else to work with.

Andy was very interested in the world of witch craft regardless if he believed it or not. If not for later in the season I would have paid no attention to this. Kit the cats actions towards him were also curious. Darryl warns him that the cat is not friendly. Well, she warmed up to Andy. When he sees the cat with the girls at the manor, though he doesn't question it, you can tell by the look on his face there is something on his mind. He has been gone for a number of years, but not long after Grams death he returns. It's almost as if he knew he had to be there.

CAUSE & EFFECT

Like Agent Gibbs on NCIS, I do not believe in coincidences, so here are a few causes with questionable effects.

The powers the girls received fascinated me, but more on that as we move through time. The one that is of most interest here is Phoebe's. Prue tell Piper that, "The girl has no vision, no sense of the future'. I wonder if she came into that power as it was what she needed the most.

In the opener it is the chandelier Prue is focused on. If she had not gone to the basement, she might not have found the 'Witch-Board'. She didn't have to bring it up-stairs, but she did and on the night Phoebe arrives home. When the powers were released it was the chandelier that lite and sparkled. Okay.

If Kit the cat was to be there for the Charmed Ones why didn't she just show up on their door step. I think Phoebe would have taken her in. Did her current owner have to die for her to get where she was suppose to be?

I think the TV show Piper was watching was questionable. I have to wonder if it was only filtering into the manor. It is well known that no witches were burned at the stake in Salem. Which just goes to show what Piper didn't know about witch history. If this was a controlled viewing, my guess is that it was not coming from a positive force, and was given to scare her. Piper has a confidence issue and if not for Phoebe's pep talk in the attic might have stalled their coming to terms with this as a trio.  

If Phoebe hadn't had the accident involving the skate-boarders and ended up in the hospital, it might have been awhile before he contacted Prue. He might have been checking up on her but he had been back for a spell. When was he planning on dropping by? If he was keeping tabs on Prue surly he knew Grams had passed, still it wasn't until they received their powers before there was contact. A very wise man once told me that everything happens for a reason. Yeah, I can see that.

I'm sorry this is so long, but I was on a roll, I hope some others will be too. If you feel we have taken this as far as it can go ... speak up. I am ready for the next episode. Thank you for you patients. SC

[ShadowCat]

CHARMED PSYCH 101

        Season 1 .... Episode 2 ..... ("I've Got You Under My Skin") Oct. 14, 1998

Perhaps Prue and Piper are just paranoid, but both seem to be very hard on Phoebe when she got the premonition at Quake. I was glad that she pointed out that she too is new to her power just like them. What I would have tried to explain is that unlike their abilities, Phoebe's comes to her without warning. She isn't trying to do anything. Where Prue and Piper have to learn how to use and then control what they have, Phoebe is not afforded that, at least not at this point in time. She does have to make the decision to either go with it or reject the vision, but by the end of this episode I think Phoebe might have noticed that she isn't getting premonitions just to see into the future, they are happening for a reason. The job she has is to figure out what it is.

When she saw that the man at Quake was going to ask her to have a drink, that was cute, but appeared to mean nothing. Well, not so fast here. I think what was learned was that the visions are on target and to be trusted. Phoebe mentions his name and the type of drink, an Piper got the intell that is was accurate. We also see later that Phoebe was meant to be there since she noticed the tattoo and that stayed in Piper's memory. If not for that Brittany might not have been recognized and without her help, Phoebe may have remained old and missing.

Many have said that it's too bad that the girls were never schooled in the craft before they came into their powers. A good example of that mistake is in the name Buckland. I don't know Rex's blood line but he sounds British to me. Well with just the little I know I would have been leery of him. Raymond Buckland was born in London in 1934. After serving in the Royal Air Force he went to work for a London Publishing company. In 1962 he and his then wife emigrated to the United Sates. He is the one that brought the Gardnerian Book of Shadows into this country at a later date. They started a coven in Long Island NY, which was a centre for neopaganism for the next 20 years. In 1968 he formed the First Museum of Witchcraft and Magic in this country. As far as I know he is still alive and living in Ohio. Some refer to him as the Father of Witchcraft in the USA. So maybe if they had attended Witchcraft History 101 .... they might have been better prepared for what was to come.

As I understand it part of the witches code is to do as you will but harm no one. I don't remember reading anything about personal gain so I have to wonder if that is set down for the Charmed Ones only. This might be a good idea because if Phoebe had won the lottery a lot of publicity often comes with that. I could see a big target on their backs which is not a good thing.

This episode was a major lesson for our youngest sister. She was thinking of the old couple regarding the lottery, but wanted a little for herself too. When Prue takes her to task she tries to turn this around by saying, "You said we needed money", but notice she did a little personal shopping before hand. Another thought is if you are going to fight for the innocents out on the streets, it might be easier in a pair of jeans than a fashion labeled Armani or Prada.

CAUSE AND EFFECT

I have to wonder what Piper was watching on TV. when the show was on about the Witches of Salem. Mary Towne Eastey's was indeed one of the victims of the 1692 Salem witch trials. So were two of her sisters. A total of 19 accused of witchcraft both male and female were hanged. One man was pressed to death and a number of them died in prison. None were burnt at the stake, in fact it is difficult to gather any information on a witch burning in the USA. Therefore the TV show Piper was watching was incorrect. If she had been schooled in Craft History she would have known this.

Now according to my research you can have lightning on a clear cloudless day, but I can't find anything that states that happened to Mary Easteys. So ..... since Piper tends to be the paranoid one whom often lacks confidence, and did seem to be the one that had connections to a church and pastor, .... was she receiving an actual broadcast, or was something nasty playing with her. She is the one who comments that she hates being a witch. Could we be looking at divide and conquer here? With her background did she really need to be convinced that she was good? In short, I am suspicious of who might have been in control.

[ShadowCat]

Charmed Psych 101


Season 1 .... Episode 3 .... ("Thank You For Not Morphing") Oct. 21, 1998

This is the first time we get to meet Victor Bennett (Halliwell), and though I gather that a different actor was enlisted to play daddy in future episodes do to availability, in retrospect it might have been a smart move no one planned on.

Victor to me presents himself right from the onset as arrogant, irresponsible and immature. Now I can understand why he might have chosen Prue as the first daughter to contact as he knew her the best of the three girls. Yet what few memories he may have of her childhood he appeared to be leaning more towards using the connection as a weapon as opposed to opening a door to a fatherly reunion. When Prue slams him for deserting the family rather then offering an explanation, no matter how flimsy, or even a weak apology, he plays the daddy card and says. "Is that anyway to speak to your father?" Well, yes. This is a man who is not only on a mission, but is doing precious little to cover it up.

 Arriving with a ring that is used for protection against spells, curses and evil spirits must have sent up a red flag for Prue. With her comment to her sisters at lunch about how he suddenly shows up after a 20 year absents just when they had received their powers gives her good reason to be concerned. I think she should have maybe shared more information with Piper and Phoebe about the ring.

 When Phoebe goes to the hotel his manner towards her was something I found distasteful, thought with her as young as she is I can understand why she wouldn't have picked up on it. For starters he didn't know if she was Piper or Phoebe. Next he offers her a drink in the middle of the afternoon and then questions if she is even old enough to have one. This is followed by asking her if she would like a massage. Now he might have been MIA for a couple of decades, but if he was planning on a parent child get together he should have been concerned enough to learn a few major details. With both Prue and Phoebe his man about town conducted himself in a manner that made me feel like I needed a shower. What was he looking for ...... to play daddy or a date?

I realize that Phoebe is just getting a feel for her premonitions and therefore doesn't totally trust them, so I suppose we can excuse some of her tepidness in going with what she sees. What she needs to watch is where she points the finger of doubt. She did see Victor with the BOS outside of the house. This was incorrect but still on target. The Shape Shifters want the book, but Victor was enlisted to help them so she is viewing the facts. Andy had nothing to do with it, yet she attempted to cast him as the culprit. With the information she had it looks as if she was willing to protect her father at any cost. A person she truly does not know.

Phoebe is the adventurous risk taking baby. It is the position she was born into having two older sisters. Such is life in and out of the world of magic, but with what we have seen so far it should be clear to the viewers as to why Prue responds the way she does to some of her antics. She knew she should not have included herself on the lottery ticket. She would rather throw a party and charge admission instead of getting a job. The vision might have just been a heads up to Victor's true purpose, but she chose to implicate Andy. Ah, if I were the oldest sibling I would be questioning kid sisters decisions. Especially now.

 
For Future Reference

 
Though the girls could not have known it at this time Victor is lying through his pearly whites. In a future episode we see both Prue and Piper using their powers. Patty is pregnant with Phoebe and Victor was in their lives after she was born. Therefore he knew that their powers had been bound to protect them. He must have had an idea that Grams death would reactivate them and that is why he returned. I believe he was testing the waters when Prue finally showed up that night during the dinner, hence the reason he tripped the waiter. So what does this tell us?

Well, he wanted the girls to have a normal life, and as long as Grams was alive they did. Even if he decided not to reside at the manor he could have taken a place near by and been there when Prue broke her arm, finally passed her drivers test and went off to her prom with Andy, even if that is not where they went. LOL He could have had many wonderful years with his girls watching them grow up as regular children and teenagers. He might have convinced Grams to let Prue go east to college to pursue her dreams while he remained in San Francisco helping her with Piper and Phoebe. He should have put forth the effort to understand what they were expected to do as The Charmed Ones when the time came. All in all, he would have had a normal relationship that would have grown and been helpful to the girls for the future they were going to face. He couldn't change that but could have enjoyed their young lives. From what we can deduce, Victor abandon three average little girls that truly needed him. There is no explaining this away with what we have to work with, but there can be something to help us understand why Victor's appearence change. 

When he first visits Prue at Buckland's she didn't recognize him. I found that odd. She hated him so much that I would think his face would be burned into her minds eye. Adults don't change that much appearance wise, so why didn't she know him? Well, maybe Victor was under some sort of visual spell from the Shape Shifters. Lets call it a memory within a memory lost to the beholder. He was who he was and his intentions though shaky were honorable from his point of view. That might not necessarily make them good or wise, therefore he was a fragment of his true self. Just a thought.

Note: Did members notice that AM was playing the part of Patty in the pictures?

[Elle Em]

I agree with so much that you said. This Victor was creepy. I too found the hotel room scene to be uncomfortable. I can understand maybe, maybe not knowing Phoebe from Piper, but he would have been able to keep track of their ages. The minute he realized she was Phoebe it should have clicked how old she was.

And a drink in the middle of the day was distasteful. Most dads wouldn't like to think of their daughters drinking alcohol, even if they don't have a problem with it. Him offering her a drink seemed sleazy.

Just back to their history, it makes no sense for Victor to have left them. He was angry with Grams, not his daughters. Even if he couldn't stand Grams and she convinced him that living with his daughters wouldn't work, there are thousands of apartments in San Francisco. It was pure laziness on his part that he didn't stay in town and didn't stay in touch.

I wonder about the effect this has on Phoebe. Prue has her issues but seems fueled by anger to improve her life. Piper actually seems the most well adjusted. But Phoebe is reckless and irresponsible and has quite a history as a flirt, and more. In a way, her lack of a dad made her reach out for whatever kind of male attention she could get. Then she finally reunites with her father who acts nothing like a real father would. He almost seemed to be flaunting his money, as though the only way he knows to impress a woman is to be superficial.

I don't think Prue not recognizing him at first is all that odd. He was the last person she expected to see. And who knows? She might have thought he looked familiar but dismissed the thought, trying to keep up her professionalism. But his coming to her work in that manner, not outright saying who he was, strikes me as very manipulative. He did it to push her buttons, get a rise out of her, test her. He wanted to see what he was up against. Piper and Phoebe, he knew, might be receptive, but it was Prue who would decide if they would be in contact with him. He had to find out what he was up against.

As far as Prue's attitude towards Phoebe, as an oldest child myself, I cannot be more aligned with her, rude though she might be at times. Prue works a full time job after acting as a second mother to her sisters, and her able-bodied youngest sister won't work. I understand needing time to figure out your life and being young, and perhaps studying magic while her sisters worked, but I still side with Prue and her frustrations.

The Victor of the future seasons seems like a good guy, but as far as this version goes, I think Prue was genuinely afraid for her sisters when they went to dinner. She knew that it was not a good relationship to form, and that they would only get hurt.

The last thing I'll mention is his not showing up at the end and leaving them with the home video. Again, manipulative. Wait until they're all getting along and then abandon them with a cryptic message and something more to bring back bittersweet childhood memories. He didn't even call them. As far as I'm concerned, they're better off without him.

[ShadowCat]

Thank you Elle Em for your contribution. Piper does seem to be the most well adjusted and it might have been interesting to see what could have happened if Victor had contacted her first. Homework Victor.

Thank you for pointing out his sloppy and cowardly departure. No matter his intentions this says he was never daddy material. What I see here is Victor first, period. Oh and lets not forget the money. We never know where it came from and that's a tell to me. Regardless, he could have included a check with that tape down memory lane. Yes, his talent appears to be that of manipulation. Shall we say that Grams was on target here?

[Elle Em]

It seems like Grams was right, yes.

Another thing occurred to me. I understand why Prue and Phoebe both felt the way they did regarding their father, with Prue being old enough to have watched him leave and Phoebe only being able to see him as her daddy. But I wondered, would it be plausible if they each felt the opposite?

For example, Prue presumably got along just fine with her father as a young girl. She was old enough when he left to retain memories of him. And some of those memories were of him being gone for periods of time, like we saw in That 70s Episode, but I assume his departure hurt to the extent it did because they had a normal father-daughter relationship where they loved each other.

And with Phoebe, she retained no memories of him from childhood. I can see a reality in which she would be hurt by the fact that he left her with nothing, and dislike him more because he was a stranger to her. On the other hand, I can see Prue holding onto memories of her father that were positive and feeling more sentimental towards him because she knew the person she was missing. Anyway, just something that occurred to me.

[ShadowCat]

Yes, now that you mention it I can see that. If the girls sought the council of a shrink I wonder what would come of it if they pointed that out as an underlying possibility.
Would they be receptive to this or protest?

I think both Prue and Phoebe felt short changed in the parent department. Prue because she new to much of too little, and Phoebe because she knew almost nothing. With Phoebe she never got to experience a close bond with either Patty or Victor, and dad was at least still available. Prue had something to work with but at her tender age it much have been hard to come to terms with. Grams did perhaps poison the girls towards their father and Prue as the oldest would have connected with that the most. Of course with what we have seen so far, Grams was telling it like it was, but should she have approached it differently? The flip side of that is if she had soft soaped it would Prue have been on her guard when first meeting with Victor? That's a tough play.

Of interest here is I wonder what a shrink would think of Piper? From what we have chatted about it's almost like she's not there. The stories you hear about the middle child in a family scream very loudly right about now. Yes she wants to see dad, yes she sees Prues point. If a professional were examining this they might find Piper of greater concern. All I can come up with is that I think Piper may have been the one closest to Grams and therefore her void was filled. Just a thought.

[Elle Em]

Don't worry, I didn't forget about Piper! It's just as you said in your last post, that she may have been closest to Grams. And I think Piper's position in the family has to do with it as well. She's naturally smart and capable, but doesn't have to be the smartest or most capable. She's got a tough-as-nails older sister to lead the way. And with Phoebe always getting into trouble and presumably causing Grams a few headaches, she probably learned from early on to behave.

In a way, it also paints Piper as the strongest, despite her neuroticism. Prue had a chip on her shoulder, at least in the beginning. Phoebe had times where she was the wild child. Prue was clearly affected by losing both parents, and Phoebe was clearly affected by never knowing them. Piper didn't know them as well as Prue, but she remembered them a little, at least more than Phoebe. But it didn't affect her in either way it did her sisters. She seems like the kind of person that wouldn't be bothered as much by it as long as she was taken care of. And although Grams may not have been the best parental figure in the world, she loved them and provided them with a stable home. It may have been enough for her.

In a way it does seem odd that she seemingly accepted her new home life with such ease, or at least grew into the type of adult who wouldn't develop any issues over it, when she is the one who has the hardest time being a witch.

[ShadowCat]

Your last statement is a major bell ringer, and I doubt I would have ever arrived here if not for trying to dig a little deeper. So I thank you for this path that I would have other wised missed. Phoebe so care-free and high spirited wouldn't have a problem embracing the craft. It's not like she could be accused of seeking out this adventure. As she said, they were born into it. Prue, though reluctant to take this road most likely did so do to her strong desire to take charge and be responsible. Piper on the other hand was where she wanted to be, with the exception of her desires concerning her career. Lets face it, that's most of us.

She loved her home to the point of being a screaming neat freak. She, unlike what we saw with Prue and Phoebe had friends she wanted to stay in contact with. Of the three of them she was the most selective in whom she dated and did have an affiliation with the church. She had what my mother would have said was a very normal and healthy aspect of what she wanted in her future. I think if she had never became Charmed she would have married, kept a lovely smoothly running home, and been a hands on mother. At the same time she would have moved easily in and out of the social realm while still being career minded. To some high powered professional she might have been the perfect mate who could have pulled off a balancing act most of us would have envied, regardless of the pitfalls that come with everyday life.

So, I now think I can understand why she would be the one who hated being a witch. Her life for the most part was normal. Grams filled the role of mother figure, Prue shouldered some of the responsibilities and dad was a mystery that at 3 or 4 years old could easily have faded into obscurity as she matured. Her need to know him might only become an issue if he decided to reconnect.