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Post by charmedforlife28 on Mar 21, 2017 14:42:09 GMT -5
Leo'ld be equally useful to the sisters thanks to his deep knowledge of the magic world I loved human Leo, more sweet and wise compared to Elder leo I just feel like Elder Leo wasn't really Leo, my favorite Leo would be Whitelighter Leo because once he became human you could tell he missed being able to be apart of the action and was frustrated that he was Piper's errand boy. |
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Post by magena on Mar 21, 2017 14:45:40 GMT -5
I don't think he was frustated, he had to find a role in our world again
And he wasn't Piper errand boy, Piper had a work, it's normal he had to help her
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Post by charmedforlife28 on Mar 21, 2017 19:56:17 GMT -5
I don't think he was frustated, he had to find a role in our world again And he wasn't Piper errand boy, Piper had a work, it's normal he had to help her I understand but he was clearly frustrated when he yelled at Piper saying how she was always asking him to do this or that. It was an adjustment for him |
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Post by sol on Mar 22, 2017 2:12:36 GMT -5
Leo had to figure out how to live again as a human
He wished to become a doctor, he had spent years helping and healing people and suddenly he found himself living a reality where his wife, in addition to the dangers of a life as witch, she had to work to support a family, including her sister Paige
I loved to see him so happy when they bought the old car, he was able to fix things
I'ld like if Leo tried to go to school again, as Phoebe, because he'ld be a good counselor
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Mar 22, 2017 5:46:43 GMT -5
I'd have loved Leo being doctor again although he would have to have had to go med school obviously to learn modern medicine or maybe he could've been a full-time handyman if Leo had regular clients perhaps or working with Victor if not then in his construction company otherwise a counsellor would be okay to which with the other jobs were things he was already experienced in and a great way of utilising his strengths although his identity been the fact he was legally dead with no social security number or anything would have been an issue obviously.
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Post by charmedforlife28 on Mar 22, 2017 15:59:06 GMT -5
I'd have loved Leo being doctor again although he would have to have had to go med school obviously to learn modern medicine or maybe he could've been a full-time handyman if Leo had regular clients perhaps or working with Victor if not then in his construction company otherwise a counsellor would be okay to which with the other jobs were things he was already experienced in and a great way of utilising his strengths although his identity been the fact he was legally dead with no social security number or anything would have been an issue obviously. I read a fanfic that had Leo get an identity at the end of their rewrite of Forever Charmed as a reward. Although he didn't get his wings back he could still help people and have a life. |
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Mar 22, 2017 18:30:54 GMT -5
True Leo could have had an actual identity for all his years hard service which could've been done magically so no-one suspected anything.
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Post by gzv969 on Mar 22, 2017 22:29:47 GMT -5
I loved human Cole. With all that knowledge of demons and warlocks and the underworld. He also was an assset for the girls. Piper called him an In house demon encyclopedia. I wish phoebe ended up with him somehow in the end. A human Cole with no powers. If she could have summoned him somehow and found a way to strip him of his powers. That's why I loved and hated "The Seven Year Witch". I was waiting for Cole to escape his astral plane back into their world but it never happened. Neither did phoebe figure out what he did for piper that day. Second time piper had kept key things from her. The first time was when she didn't tell her how her future self told her to let miles die in "A witch in time" and phoebe never knew what really happened and why miles really died that day.
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Post by charmedforlife28 on Mar 23, 2017 1:50:20 GMT -5
I loved human Cole. With all that knowledge of demons and warlocks and the underworld. He also was an assset for the girls. Piper called him an In house demon encyclopedia. I wish phoebe ended up with him somehow in the end. A human Cole with no powers. If she could have summoned him somehow and found a way to strip him of his powers. That's why I loved and hated "The Seven Year Witch". I was waiting for Cole to escape his astral plane back into their world but it never happened. Neither did phoebe figure out what he did for piper that day. Second time piper had kept key things from her. The first time was when she didn't tell her how her future self told her to let miles die in "A witch in time" and phoebe never knew what really happened and why miles really died that day. But it didn't seem like Cole liked being powerless, of course it takes adjusting time similarly to Leo. He would do it for Phoebe but it didn't seem to make him happy. |
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Mar 23, 2017 5:03:09 GMT -5
Phoebe never could've ended up with Cole wholly in the end because she didn't accept all of him only part of him the lawyer man not Belthazor which she thought he could be inside her head and Cole craved power because he'd lived with that his whole life and found it difficult when Belthazor was gone being one of the reasons why he took the Hollow in so by that point even though they were popular season 4 wise they were very indifferent couple wise meaning it wouldn't work between them if Cole came back years later anyway.
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craig
Familiar
Posts: 255 
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Post by craig on Apr 14, 2017 9:30:02 GMT -5
I'd have loved Leo being doctor again although he would have to have had to go med school obviously to learn modern medicine or maybe he could've been a full-time handyman if Leo had regular clients perhaps or working with Victor if not then in his construction company otherwise a counsellor would be okay to which with the other jobs were things he was already experienced in and a great way of utilising his strengths although his identity been the fact he was legally dead with no social security number or anything would have been an issue obviously. I read a fanfic that had Leo get an identity at the end of their rewrite of Forever Charmed as a reward. Although he didn't get his wings back he could still help people and have a life. You know, I would of liked to have seen Leo as a doctor. I didn't like when he became a teacher at magic school. I felt he needed his own identity separate from all the magic. Besides, it might have been cool if Leo utilised his medical skills to help the sisters after a demon attack. Then relying on Paige to heal when she got tapped into that power in season 8. It is too bad, that Leo just didn't stay mortal after season 2, and became a doctor again for his own identity as a mortal again. So that the Piper and Leo relationship everyone loved remained, without the conflicts of whitelighters and witches. |
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Post by Sadrick on Apr 14, 2017 22:06:26 GMT -5
Leo had his own deep-rooted inadequacies about modern living. He grew up in the 1930s. Societal culture has changed radically over the course of close to 70 years. If he wanted to become a competent and productive member of society then some hurdles would need to be overcome first -- things that weren't going to be fully addressed in just a few weeks which is how long Cole had as a human.
If you want to poke holes at a relationship between two specially disinclined people then just look at the inevitable result of Leo the Whitelighter being with Piper. He was an immortal man with charges to completely unknown strangers spanning across the entire globe. Chances are, Leo would have been absent from the manor for extended periods of time to accommodate these other people whom he's beholdened to in his duties; leaving Piper to tend to the children and their place of residence with long periods of inactivity and little to no contact between them. Don't forget that while he's still looking youthful and spirited fifty years down the line, Piper would be a shriveled up prune needing constant attention from her husband that happens to be young enough to be her grandson. Not much room for physical intimacy, is there? Plus, what would these two have to talk about? Leo going off to Fiji to guide some future witch while grandma-wife Charmed One stays at home to read and bake pastries with the great-grandchildren who aren't that much younger than their immortal great-grandfather?
Does any of that sound like a mutually productive or healthy relationship? Peel back the layers of the longest running relationship on the show and you find quite a bit of malodourous underbelly to it all. Oh, and don't think Leo didn't have empowerment issues of his own because he did. The only reason it's not talked about as much is because he's not the same controversial figure like Cole is.
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Post by Elle Em on Apr 15, 2017 7:06:17 GMT -5
I've wondered about this a lot, Sadrick. In the episode where the sisters see the old couple holding hands, and Prue says to Piper that that could be her and Leo someday, and Piper responds that it won't be because whitelighters don't age, I thought to myself, then what's the point of being with him? What's the point of going through all the struggle if it's going to be that way?
It's not a shallow thing about looks at all. I just can't see even the happiest couple still being that way even just five years down the line when Piper looks just a bit older and Leo is exactly the same. She'd start to resent him, and he wouldn't be as attracted to her. She'd be self-conscious about the fact that he's forever in his 20s while she gets older. Their kids would be confused and probably unable to treat them as normal parents. They'd come to see Leo as more of a brother and Piper as older than she was just by comparison of the two. And how would Leo ever do anything like meet Piper's friends or even go to the grocery store? If he never ages, eventually someone would notice.
In addition, how would Leo possibly relate to the world around him? If Piper expected him to have a home life with her, he's got to blend into her world somehow. But how could he when he's got to continuously make sure no one realizes he's not getting any older? Or if he was unable to have a job because he's so busy being a whitelighter?
The world is a much different place for Leo than it is for Piper. Leo knew life in a different time period entirely. He saw and participated in war. He died. He has decades of magical knowledge and never aging. He spends his days helping magical beings in magical situations. And Piper? Born in the '70s, knew nothing of magic for a quarter of a century, aging like normal. Just based on this description and not thinking of what happened in the show at all, Leo sounds like more of a parent figure than anything.
And while we're looking into the whitelighter thing, there are a few more things I've wondered about. Leo can't be killed by anything other than a darklighter arrow, right? When he was stabbed that one time, I believe he self-healed. So if he's unable to die by most things, what if he, for example, never ate again? Would he even notice? What if he never slept? He's been shown to do both of those and more human things in the show, acting as though he needs sleep and gets hungry. But if nothing but a darklighter arrow can cause his demise, then surely he can't starve to death or collapse from exhaustion.
When Piper asked in that one episode if he had an apartment, he never answered her. Does he just orb around constantly from place to place? Or does he indeed have a small apartment where he can go if he needs a mental break from all his whitelighter duties?
There are so many issues with him being basically immortal, and the more you dig into it, the less sense it makes, and the more screwed up it becomes. It's no wonder the writers eventually had him become human and start aging alongside Piper.
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920 
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Post by Esmeralda on Apr 15, 2017 12:08:15 GMT -5
I'd have loved Leo being doctor again although he would have to have had to go med school obviously to learn modern medicine or maybe he could've been a full-time handyman if Leo had regular clients perhaps or working with Victor if not then in his construction company otherwise a counsellor would be okay to which with the other jobs were things he was already experienced in and a great way of utilising his strengths although his identity been the fact he was legally dead with no social security number or anything would have been an issue obviously. I read a fanfic that had Leo get an identity at the end of their rewrite of Forever Charmed as a reward. Although he didn't get his wings back he could still help people and have a life. That was my story, "Charmed Forever". Everyone who thinks that Leo could've become a doctor or anything besides Piper's little errand boy (which he did *NOT* like and was *NOT* his choice - after all, he's from the 20's/30's where the little woman stayed home and took care of the kids while the man went out into the world and brought home the bacon, which is why I hated Piper treating him the way she did and actually thought she loved him.) forgets that as an ex-whitelighter he had no identity and could never get a job outside of something like what he did at Magic School (which I also hate - those magical kids would've walked all over a non-magical teacher – all part of why I *still* think that ‘Forever Crap’, I mean ‘Forever Piper’, I mean ‘Forever Charmed’ is Piper’s delusion as she dies after the explosion in ‘Kill Billie, Vol 2’ because no way I can see Leo happy in these circumstances unless he was masochistic.) That’s part of why in my story after the sisters saved the Jenkinses – who they found out were their half-cousins since Grams is also *their* grandmother, the reason they’re so powerful; they're also Warrens - rather than murder them for a second time, I had the Angel of Destiny give them each the reward they wanted: -Leo: an identity; -Piper: her, her sisters and their children a normal life until the kids were old enough to take over (no matter how much she’d gripe about it whenever her powers would’ve come in handy); -Coop: humanity with an identity -Phoebe: a human husband; -Paige: being a living whitelighter without having to die first and with the ability to ask the Elders for help, but they couldn’t ask her – no more jingles! I’d prefer that over either the flashforward of ‘Forever Crap’, I mean ‘Forever Piper’, I mean ‘Forever Charmed’ or them just walking away from their destiny to use their powers for their own personal gains as appeared to me they’d be doing if it ended like it did at the end of ‘Something Wicca That Way Goes’. I’d SO prefer what would’ve happened if indeed that *was* the series finale. According to spoilers posted before Charmed was renewed for the eighth season, then the series would’ve ended with Phoebe saying, “HERE WE GO!" KaBOOM! The end!!! That way each fan could decide what they thought happened next…*AND* set up a spin-off! |
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Post by Sadrick on Apr 16, 2017 2:02:00 GMT -5
I've wondered about this a lot, Sadrick. In the episode where the sisters see the old couple holding hands, and Prue says to Piper that that could be her and Leo someday, and Piper responds that it won't be because whitelighters don't age, I thought to myself, then what's the point of being with him? What's the point of going through all the struggle if it's going to be that way? It's not a shallow thing about looks at all. I just can't see even the happiest couple still being that way even just five years down the line when Piper looks just a bit older and Leo is exactly the same. She'd start to resent him, and he wouldn't be as attracted to her. She'd be self-conscious about the fact that he's forever in his 20s while she gets older. Their kids would be confused and probably unable to treat them as normal parents. They'd come to see Leo as more of a brother and Piper as older than she was just by comparison of the two. And how would Leo ever do anything like meet Piper's friends or even go to the grocery store? If he never ages, eventually someone would notice. In addition, how would Leo possibly relate to the world around him? If Piper expected him to have a home life with her, he's got to blend into her world somehow. But how could he when he's got to continuously make sure no one realizes he's not getting any older? Or if he was unable to have a job because he's so busy being a whitelighter? The world is a much different place for Leo than it is for Piper. Leo knew life in a different time period entirely. He saw and participated in war. He died. He has decades of magical knowledge and never aging. He spends his days helping magical beings in magical situations. And Piper? Born in the '70s, knew nothing of magic for a quarter of a century, aging like normal. Just based on this description and not thinking of what happened in the show at all, Leo sounds like more of a parent figure than anything. And while we're looking into the whitelighter thing, there are a few more things I've wondered about. Leo can't be killed by anything other than a darklighter arrow, right? When he was stabbed that one time, I believe he self-healed. So if he's unable to die by most things, what if he, for example, never ate again? Would he even notice? What if he never slept? He's been shown to do both of those and more human things in the show, acting as though he needs sleep and gets hungry. But if nothing but a darklighter arrow can cause his demise, then surely he can't starve to death or collapse from exhaustion. When Piper asked in that one episode if he had an apartment, he never answered her. Does he just orb around constantly from place to place? Or does he indeed have a small apartment where he can go if he needs a mental break from all his whitelighter duties? There are so many issues with him being basically immortal, and the more you dig into it, the less sense it makes, and the more screwed up it becomes. It's no wonder the writers eventually had him become human and start aging alongside Piper. All completely valid points. The disparities that wedge between Leo and Piper's prospects for a mutually healthy relationship encompass not only magical components of their respective beings but their human selves as well. Everything Leo has known, the life he leads, the people he knows, and how he he interacts with the world as a whole make the expectations Piper holds for him seem untenable. Short of some type of magical intervention that could have altered Leo's physiological telomerase so that his cells begin to age like any other person, these issues would have continued to exacerbate over time. It's a wonder that their relationship was able to survive for five years without any of these issues flaring up. I wonder if a part of Piper may not have began to resent Leo for his immortality -- while she continues to shrivel and decay, he retains his youth and health many decades after having committed themselves to each other. Such glaring flaws can't be overlooked, no matter how delusively you cling to the hope that unconditional love will overcome biological, vocational, and social setbacks in the relationship. Alternatively, perhaps Piper could have somehow turned herself into an immortal. But then how would this impact the interactions she has with her sisters or children? None of them are eternally living. As the Power of Three continues to sink deeper into the irrevocable pit of senescence with their efficiency at the job waning and the need to pass the reigns over to a younger generation, Piper would still be functionally active in her wiccan duties since the day she became immortal like Leo. Fast forward fifty years and the relationship she has with Leo would have less probability of falling apart -- the aforementioned issues over Leo's long term absence from the manor and lack of comprehensional awareness of modern etiquette would still present flaws, but otherwise there should be no concerns over an age gap making them incapable of interacting like a couple. It's just that pesky little dilemma of having commitments to other family members that make this prospect of an immortal couple non-feasible. |
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Post by Elle Em on Apr 16, 2017 7:07:50 GMT -5
And if they were immortal together, that might also contribute to the downfall of their relationship. If you knew you'd be with someone forever, ironically, it takes the magic right out of the relationship. Spending a normal lifetime with someone you love is a great thing. But in 200 years (or less), they'd be sick of each other.
And it would definitely impact her relationship with her sisters, as well as the world she knows and how she knows to live. Instead of the previous situation with Piper resenting Leo for retaining his youth, her sisters would resent her. Their relationship would stall, and the Power of Three would suffer as a result. And I don't know how Piper would continue to work and try to have a life if she were so far removed from the reality of aging and going through different life stages.
I was never the biggest fan of Dan's. I don't think he was the type of person who could have accepted magic in his life. Which isn't a bad thing in general, but it means that a relationship with Piper would never have worked. I can't see the two of them being happy long term, no matter how slowly he's introduced to the magical world.
But when Piper was set to choose between them, and the fact that she knew Leo was immortal and would never age, plus all the difficulties of him fitting into her world, and I wondered what there even was for her to be considering. She's better off without either of them, in my opinion, if Leo never ages and can never have a human identity like her. But if she must choose between those two men, Dan's normal biology and the fact that they are both from the same era and have jobs and friends and other normal necessities of life makes him the only realistic choice.
Piper choosing Leo despite the obstacles, especially given his inability to age (as things like a normal job can eventually be attained and he'd eventually grow used to no longer living in the time period he was from), now seems incredibly childish and, in a way, delusional. I don't know why she put so much faith into the idea that true love would solve all problems when it clearly can't fix even half the issues standing in their way. It seems like setting the relationship up for failure before it even has a chance to truly begin. Had Leo not become human in season seven, I can't see them being able to ignore the obvious issue of his immortality much longer.
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Post by Sadrick on Apr 16, 2017 8:51:49 GMT -5
So what you're saying is that the human capacity for becoming weary of something after so long would begin to intrude in their relationship after enough time had elapsed? I don't know. Leo was apparently given a personal sneak peek into all of his previous lives, those which he knew Piper during included, yet didn't seem to be burnt-out with spending time with her or trying to perpetuate their interactions in general. Maybe the sensation of space-time fluidity was altered during the experience -- like he didn't feel the gradual progression of time over the ages, but rather was just given an instantaneous informational insertion without any detrimental baggage. How else could he be so tolerant of a woman whom he would have experienced two lifetimes worth of physical and emotional intimacy with? He even went so far in his pining for her affections to have an extramarital affair behind P Baxter's husband's back during his previous lifetime. He was either feverishly committed at that time or lacked the desire/capacity to pursue relationships with other people. Does that not come across as single-minded obsession to some?
Something would have needed to give eventually between Piper and Leo. She either confronts him with the daunting reality of their irreconcilable differences or they continue the charade for however long it holds before the age and social differences make continued romantic interactions not possible. In the latter scenario, the decline may have brought about some friction that eventually evolves into discontent, then frustration, and finally estranged resentment. Imagine something along the lines of how Phoebe's interactions with Cole in Season 5 had become jaded and indignant, except without the checkered background making Piper threaten Leo with death. The children would likely remain with Piper as she's the only one between the two of them with the kind of semi-stable household and societal engagement needed to ensure they are able to function in life. Leo might be allowed to visit them on occasion, but I can't envision Piper being content with allowing him to remain as the Charmed Ones' Whitelighter with the history they have making formal work difficult and awkward.
My opinion concerning the issue of Dan's ability to organically accept the reality of the magical world existing while maintaining a stable commitment to Piper is in-determinant. Such a scenario never panned out so it might be presumptuous to assume he couldn't have retained a more open mindset if he was exposed to the truth over a more gradual and less hazardous period of time. Dan's past life seemed accepting of Piper's past life's wiccan practice. Could the same not have been possible for the modern iteration?
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Post by Elle Em on Apr 17, 2017 7:17:46 GMT -5
I can understand that Leo and Piper (as well as other members of their group) are considered soul mates, and that even the knowledge of this might make Leo want to be with Piper again and again. It may very well be because they love each other so much, but also because of familiarity and the comfort that comes with that. Showing Leo his past life with Piper and allowing him to be her whitelighter, and I'm not surprised he fell for her again. I don't know for sure if each would have been better off having relationships with others, but if they end up together time and again, they aren't testing that very much.
I agree that Piper and Leo definitely had some issues to work through before deciding to be together and try to have children especially. And your mention of Cole reminded me that he was in much the same position as Leo with not aging. He was over 100 years old when he was with Phoebe, yet looked in his 30s at the oldest. It might be that he controls his looks and that he could naturally age from the point at which he decided to stay with Phoebe, but that was never mentioned on the show.
I may have been too quick to judge Dan, but the impression that I got from the episode where the truth is revealed to him is that he would never be able to handle the idea of magic. When Andy and Darryl found out about it, they were a bit freaked out, but Dan seemed completely repulsed by the idea. We'll never know if he eventually would have warmed to the idea, but from my perspective, I can't see it happening.
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Post by gzv969 on Apr 17, 2017 17:49:07 GMT -5
All this is more the reason why Leo had to become mortal in order to spend the rest of his life with piper. The only big problem that Piper ever had with Leo was Leo using magic on her to influence her thoughts, actions and feelings. That's one thing the sisters apparently hated. It's what finally put a stake in Coles relationship with Phoebe, after him using the Seer to manipulate her with the influence of the magical baby and tonics she was taking. She could argue that it was the soul reason why she agreed to be by Coles side in the underworld. Never try to control their decisions.
But on Leo being human. Leo, like Cole, never did very well without his powers. No matter how much he said he loved to give them up for Piper, there was still some loss of identity when he gave up his powers that he had to deal with. Even if Leo hadn't complained about piper calling him all the time (Leo!! Leo!!), (like how Cole complained Phoebe would always want to send him to his room when demons attacked), Leo would have still had to deal with his mortal situation somehow. And the only thing that could help coping with this type of situation is to give him space and time to come to terms with his new identity. Both Leo and cole couldn't deal with being powerless. Hence all their frustration. I compare him with Cole because they were both magical beings that became human at one point, both lost their ladies at some point and both went from powerful (Whiitelighter, Balthazar), to super powerful (Elder, Source), to extremely powerful (avatar, Un-vaquishable demon).
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Post by sol on May 4, 2017 1:25:15 GMT -5
I believe that Leo only needed time to find a role in the world
The writers thought of him as a magic teacher, I'ld prefer if he'ld work as school counselor or medical doctor
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