Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920 
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Post by Esmeralda on May 2, 2017 4:57:40 GMT -5
I think Leo should've stayed until 'Love Hurts' and then stay gone when he leaves there, especially if that meant we could keep Andy as a friend of the family (no longer Prue's boyfriend, just her friend...) for the rest of the series - with none of the others keeping a boyfriend for longer than a season so the sisterhood would be more important than their boyfriends or sons - I *so* agree with Connie on that one!
But Leo was my favorite male on the show until 'Oh, My Goddess!' - I loved him as an angel, not as an Elder or an Avatar or an errand boy. All part of why when I was first part of the Cafe during S6, my Display Name was Esmeralda Wyatt - if Piper didn't want to take his name, I would, because I loved the angel more than the human, the way I detested Cole in S4-5 as the demon more than the human...I changed it to Esmeralda Zankou during Season 7 - by S7, I was rooting for him to win a lot more than I was rooting for the Charmed Ones. Although if Drake had a last name - his fanon name is De'mon, but I don't like it - I would still be using his...
I'll always wish that Brian Krause hadn't signed his second contract (after S5) so that Chris exploding his atoms would've been the last we'd seen of him. Then he would've remained my favorite male character. And it's remembering what Piper turned him into that makes me wish he'd stayed gone after 'Love Hurts' or she had stayed gone after 'Awakened'.
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Post by mavbay on May 2, 2017 5:28:30 GMT -5
I never cared for Leo and think he shouldn't have appeared after "Wicca Envy". Just wondering what you didn't like about him? He was a whitelighter for like 60 years but had to "check" with the elders for 9 out of 10 times when asked a question.  On a more serious note: The more he stayed, the less I liked him. "Love Hurts", eventhough likely written as his final episode pretty much set up the Leo & Piper belong together. Then in season 2, when Piper was trying to move on he kept popping up unwillig to let go (that's why I really don't have any sympathy for him when he became her doormat after they became a couple again). "Blinded By the Whitelighter" was also a great example of him not doing his job right. |
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Ruth Marie
Whitelighter
Prue Seasons
"What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Posts: 4,355
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Post by Ruth Marie on May 2, 2017 5:40:18 GMT -5
Just wondering what you didn't like about him? He was a whitelighter for like 60 years but had to "check" with the elders for 9 out of 10 times when asked a question. On a more serious note: The more he stayed, the less I liked him. "Love Hurts", eventhough likely written as his final episode pretty much set up the Leo & Piper belong together. Then in season 2, when Piper was trying to move on he kept popping up unwillig to let go (that's why I really don't have any sympathy for him when he became her doormat after they became a couple again). "Blinded By the Whitelighter" was also a great example of him not doing his job right. You make an great point mavbay. He has 60 years experience and likely would have had what 100 chargers over the years, so the Halliwell's we not his first. With the show's canon, I am surprised the Elders sent Leo to them, especially after the events with Sam. Of course we know Leo staying meant some changes to the story going forward. But I just don't get why they would risk history repeating itself. Did Grams have a whitelighter? They claim Leo watched Prue, Piper and Phoebe since a baby. But I don't get why, Sam couldn't have just been the Halliwell's whitelighter. This may have actually happened, had Patty not died maybe. |
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on May 2, 2017 7:42:48 GMT -5
Just wondering what you didn't like about him? He was a whitelighter for like 60 years but had to "check" with the elders for 9 out of 10 times when asked a question. Here's the difference for me. This was the first time he had *the Charmed Ones* as charges. I'll bet when he was guiding his other charges, he didn't have to ask questions about all of the baddies the Charmed Ones ran into. But I agree that after we find out that Leo and Piper were lovers in a past life, and that loving Patty cost the Elders Sam as a whitelighter, making Leo the Charmed Ones' whitelighter really didn't make a lot of sense. For whatever reason, the Elders were pretty stupid - or Connie was for including those episodes in Season Two - even if 'P3 H20' is one of my favorite episodes. Now had the end of *that* episode been the last time we saw Leo (don't I wish...), then it would've made plenty of sense. |
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Post by charmedforlife28 on May 2, 2017 11:18:57 GMT -5
He was a whitelighter for like 60 years but had to "check" with the elders for 9 out of 10 times when asked a question. Here's the difference for me. This was the first time he had *the Charmed Ones* as charges. I'll bet when he was guiding his other charges, he didn't have to ask questions about all of the baddies the Charmed Ones ran into. But I agree that after we find out that Leo and Piper were lovers in a past life, and that loving Patty cost the Elders Sam as a whitelighter, making Leo the Charmed Ones' whitelighter really didn't make a lot of sense. For whatever reason, the Elders were pretty stupid - or Connie was for including those episodes in Season Two - even if 'P3 H20' is one of my favorite episodes. Now had the end of *that* episode been the last time we saw Leo (don't I wish...), then it would've made plenty of sense. You're very right, I always wondered why the Elders sent Leo to the Charmed Ones if they knew that in a past life they were lovers why would they tempt fate like that, its honestly on them for knowing what may happen and going thru with it anyway. |
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Post by charmedforlife28 on May 2, 2017 11:20:02 GMT -5
On another note did anyone else hate Odin? I'm sorry but for an elder he didn't act very "elder like" especially in the 7 year witch. It was up to Leo to choose and Odin pretty much made that decision for him.
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Post by adzpower on May 2, 2017 13:20:33 GMT -5
Odin was a corrupt piece of cr*p quite frankly. Doing whatever he could to steer things to his own choosing, exploiting loopholes and such. You just know he played all kinds of dirty tricks and stomped on as many people as he could to ascend to the level of Elder.
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Post by West on May 2, 2017 21:08:12 GMT -5
On another note did anyone else hate Odin? I'm sorry but for an elder he didn't act very "elder like" especially in the 7 year witch. It was up to Leo to choose and Odin pretty much made that decision for him. Odin was horrible. And for the leader of the Elders, hardly doing his job well. Both him and the Source were such laughable leaders of good and evil. |
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Post by Sadrick on May 2, 2017 21:45:37 GMT -5
I feel like Gideon was justified in his thinking that Wyatt posed an imminent threat to the world with the amount of power he wielded. Every other episode seemed to be wrought with some newly unforeseen power of his causing mischief and mayhem for everyone. He's so powerful he even materialised a dragon which laid havoc onto San Francisco. Everything Gideon said about him was true. Although I feel like he should have taken it one step further by decrying the sisters for their idleness during this deteriorating situation. They chose to hormonally cling to their bonds as family rather than take to heart the reality of what it is they're unleashing onto the world. Such overzealous dedication even prompted them to threaten exposing magic and wreaking havoc of their own on the world if the higher powers didn't relent in letting Wyatt's magical mishaps go unchecked.
Wyatt's a threat as well as his family if their demands aren't met.
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Post by sol on May 3, 2017 0:53:33 GMT -5
Awhat would Piper have to do, to eliminate her baby?
And the Cleaners had the right to kidnapping a child of not even an year, unconscious of his powers, powers that his family did not even know?
Gideon'ld help to rise this special baby, not to kill him
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Post by yinsoul on May 3, 2017 12:20:15 GMT -5
Awhat would Piper have to do, to eliminate her baby? And the Cleaners had the right to kidnapping a child of not even an year, unconscious of his powers, powers that his family did not even know? Gideon'ld help to rise this special baby, not to kill him Of course she didnt have to "eliminate" Wyatt. But she needed to be more cognizant of the threat he could pose entirely on accident. Binding his powers was always seen as wrong and almost evil, even though its actually a pretty good option and it only has to be until he understands more about himself. And preferably is past the tantrum stage. Not being bound worked okay for the girls when they were little because Grams was well versed enough to untangle any mishaps that they caused- they would be stronger than her eventually but they werent then. Wyatt is stronger now, or not far off. The Cleaners kidnapping Wyatt is bad, but what about the right of San Francisco not to be terrorized by a dragon? Phoebe felt people getting badly hurt, or maybe even killed- what about their rights? |
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Post by sol on May 4, 2017 0:59:20 GMT -5
Im Forget Me Not, Piper moves away from the baby to talk to her sisters, behavior that any pedagogue'ld have recommended
Wyatt uses a power no one in the family has, so they cannot imagine the danger
The law don't punish children, terrible what happened, but it was fatal
Perhaps, because the Elders who know everything, how can the know nothing about Wyatt's powers?
Indeed, a pedagogue'ld recommend not binding such extraordinary powers, because he'ld get used to them during growth, considering them normal, without feeling greater than the other children
Building normality in a superdoted child is a difficult and delicate process, In Wyatt the risk was to create a person who feels different from other humans
The kids accept anything without a problem, so the role of Piper and the Elders'ld have been to leave Wyatt his powers and teac how and when to use them
Above all, the Elders'ld understand that Wyatt neded his father
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Post by Chrisaholic on May 4, 2017 9:24:41 GMT -5
Some Elders were just laughable. Odin was this one candidate who could not accept anything, except the Elders' way of life if you want to. The actor was also not one of my favorites, remember him as "Q" from 'Star Trek'. Sandra was kind of nice but some of them should have remained unseen - for good. Gideon, despite everything he had done, I would have met sooner than later. His introduction came too late, in my eyes.
Many things should have handled differently.
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Post by Sadrick on May 4, 2017 22:22:02 GMT -5
So collateral damage from Wyatt's learning curve is justified by this familial bias to excuse him because he's "just a child"? If this series took the time to brandish the consequences from the Halliwells' magical experimentations then you would probably recognise the grotesque underbelly of what it is they've wrought onto the world. Concerning Wyatt specifically -- with the sympathetic characterisation of one who's trying to do what he feels is best, the writers don't have to portray a picture containing what must have been carnage, mutilation, and terror with people running for their lives in the ruins of a destroyed city as other less fortunate ones are either devoured or have had the flesh melt like tender meat off their bones by Wyatt's "little dragon friend".
Looking over the list of powers Wyatt's shown in the series, I have to admit that it's very worrisome when the stability of the whole world can change with the just snap of a finger. There's no contingency plans for this child. He's so overwhelmingly powerful that not even his brother or any of their cousins can stop him. Gideon's methods were extreme, but the core of where his misgivings over Wyatt's powers being too much to handle is based on some strong meritorious arguments. If you ask me, Wyatt should either be disempowered or have a good chuck of it removed so that when he eventually does go darkside -- an event that happened just about every other week with the sisters -- his inferior little brother, sister, and all of the cousins have a fighting chance.
If worse comes to worse in Wyatt's powers being the implement for the deaths of many, then I might start to consider him to be too much of a liability to have around, at least in his current state.
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Post by sol on May 5, 2017 1:10:24 GMT -5
Ok, I know thet you loves only sweet and hot Cole, but killing a 7 years old baby isn't a little bit extreme?
Besides the fact that even in the Tables of the Law there is a difference between the responsibilities of "pubes and spubescent!", I hope that at least Wyatt will enjoy the 'Declaration on the Rights of the Child' of 1959!
The Angel of Destiny told Leo that Wyatt'ld be powerfull beyond any imagination, so Up There they'ld think about how to help to rise a baby like him
Baby Wyatt wished to play with a dragoon, not distinguishing an image from reality, Cole was volunteering a professional killer for several decades, I see a little difference between them
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Post by yinsoul on May 5, 2017 3:07:29 GMT -5
Wyatt is something never seen before, so there is, of course, going to be something of a learning curve and blindsides when it comes to parenting him. Even normal kids do this, and you can't watch them every minute of every day. Its impossible. Its not that the kid should be punished for being a kid and not knowing any better. Its that the Halliwells could have been shown to be less cavalier about letting him tear around as he manifested a new power practically every week. Some of these incidents are very serious, like the dragon, or when he shrank his parents with seemingly barely any effort and they were unable to resist at all, nearly allowing Zankou the Nexus. What happens when he's in his terrible twos and throws a tantrum, as pretty much every child ever will do at least once? I'm sure magical children break stuff all the time, but in Wyatts case the "stuff" can include entire cities. The Cleaners were doing their jobs, and they have a very good reason for having that job, as AHBL can tell you. I kind of wish things would have been resolved more with "Okay, we as a family are going to make even more of an effort to shield this very special child, could you help us out here?" instead of "We're gonna be jerks and keep exposing magic, putting the entirety of the magical community in constant danger because the Cleaners will be too busy with us to clean up something else one day and whoops". The Cleaners seemed to be open to negotiation (they threw in Pheeb's work brawl erasure for free after all). At least in Imaginary Fiends it seems that something of all the warnings sunk into Piper and Leo's parenting style so that Wyatt turned out seemingly pretty alright (but he still got changed into evil by a stuffed bear, following the familial tradition of sudden alignment change). Ok, I know thet you loves only sweet and hot Cole That seems a bit unfair. AFAIK, Sadrick doesnt seem to care about how "sweet and hot" Cole is, but about the character himself. Why accuse this way? |
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Post by erikamarie on May 5, 2017 3:19:07 GMT -5
Please, don't start bickering
I also think that the Angel of Destiny, knowing how powerful Wyatt'ld become, would talk about how much help would be needed to educate him
Probably for this reason Chris was convinced that his father favored Wyatt, because Leo, as a father and as Elder, was primarily and rightly concerned with his education
Crone had forbidden to approach the baby but over time Wyatt'll have attracted the attention of demons and dark forces, to rise him in safety will have been tiring
Regarding the Cleaner, the doubt is always the same: where were they when magic was exposed in AHBL?
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Post by yinsoul on May 5, 2017 3:41:14 GMT -5
Please, don't start bickering I also think that the Angel of Destiny, knowing how powerful Wyatt'ld become, would talk about how much help would be needed to educate him Probably for this reason Chris was convinced that his father favored Wyatt, because Leo, as a father and as Elder, was primarily and rightly concerned with his education Crone had forbidden to approach the baby but over time Wyatt'll have attracted the attention of demons and dark forces, to rise him in safety will have been tiring Regarding the Cleaner, the doubt is always the same: where were they when magic was exposed in AHBL? Well I'm sure the real reason is that the writers hadnt come up with their concept in S3, so perhaps there will never be a satisfying answer in-canon. And I could understand this! (though was Leo an Elder in Chris' timeline? I was never sure; please feel free to smack me over the head with the answer if its there :p) Trying to make sure Wyatt didnt grow up into magical Godzilla (even though they did fail in that timeline without the warnings) seems like a surefire way to Chris' accusations that Leo was never there for him. Perhaps theres no good answer to the Wyatt thing. Do you take the cautious route and bind him and not let him express himself and get a feel for his powers and the good he could do with them? Do you let him express himself and possibly blow up the planet, but allow him to get a handle on himself from an early age? One could see both sides. Maybe both opinions are unpopular, hah. |
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Post by Sadrick on May 5, 2017 16:57:47 GMT -5
The methodology is no less extreme than the possible ramifications of his actions or how his family may retaliate should he be taken away. It's not just the loss of life -- the socio-economic ramifications in the loss of a major city on the western seaboard of the United States coupled with the public international realisation of magic existing would come to the detriment of millions, both civilian and magical beings alike. It's a wide scale domino effect where many, many people are being put into the crossfire. If I have to choose between these untold masses of people or one child then yes, I will pick them over Wyatt. Intention isn't really relevant in this case because the collateral damage from what he did is enormous; this isn't a hapless little baby who broke a toy or stained his diaper. Wyatt can already generate a barrier shield at will to defend himself or others. He clearly has some level of sentient autonomy already.
Moreover, need I remind you that there's no contingency plans for this child. We saw what the future was like where no one could apparently stand up to Wyatt. Restricting or removing his powers at least gives those who would need to oppose him a fighting chance. It's not like his powers would necessarily be the deciding factor behind whatever skirmish Brad's brood of brats gets into. You have eight other magically supercharged Power of Three progeny who are fighting the scattered remnants of an eight year long war where three sisters had apparently decimated the underworld's ranks (a far cry from Jeremy Burn's boasting about millions of his kind existing). Unless they intend to branch out to other regions of the country or different continents, eight children of the Power of 3 could conceivably be more than enough to handle generic leather clad demons of the week.
Wyatt is a wayward hydrogen bomb that could go off at any time. He could hopefully pose a tremendous asset to the PO3, but at a moment's notice he's crippling them all to the point where they can't even defend themselves. I would prefer to not take that chance if it were my decision. Besides, it's not like this is the first case of the sisters diempowering someone with an ungodly amount of powers.
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Post by sol on May 10, 2017 0:40:50 GMT -5
Please, don't start bickering I also think that the Angel of Destiny, knowing how powerful Wyatt'ld become, would talk about how much help would be needed to educate him Probably for this reason Chris was convinced that his father favored Wyatt, because Leo, as a father and as Elder, was primarily and rightly concerned with his education Crone had forbidden to approach the baby but over time Wyatt'll have attracted the attention of demons and dark forces, to rise him in safety will have been tiring Regarding the Cleaner, the doubt is always the same: where were they when magic was exposed in AHBL? Well I'm sure the real reason is that the writers hadnt come up with their concept in S3, so perhaps there will never be a satisfying answer in-canon. And I could understand this! (though was Leo an Elder in Chris' timeline? I was never sure; please feel free to smack me over the head with the answer if its there  ) Trying to make sure Wyatt didnt grow up into magical Godzilla (even though they did fail in that timeline without the warnings) seems like a surefire way to Chris' accusations that Leo was never there for him. Perhaps theres no good answer to the Wyatt thing. Do you take the cautious route and bind him and not let him express himself and get a feel for his powers and the good he could do with them? Do you let him express himself and possibly blow up the planet, but allow him to get a handle on himself from an early age? One could see both sides. Maybe both opinions are unpopular, hah. Maybe, but I'm sure that the right way to educate a superchild - whether i be magical powers or intelligence or sports skills -it was to get him used to his exceptional nature I think thet Leo was an Eder in Chris's timeline, Chris told he didn't want to change thing, only a magical strike and in the attic Bianca told of a cover story - the Titans story I think After all, Chirs did what Phoebe was about to do |
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) Trying to make sure Wyatt didnt grow up into magical Godzilla (even though they did fail in that timeline without the warnings) seems like a surefire way to Chris' accusations that Leo was never there for him.