What could have defeated the Charmed Ones?

[charmedforlife28]

Ok so Chris says Piper dies when he was fourteen, what do you think happened that would kill Piper. Do you think the Charmed Ones all died together or Piper died first and then they no longer had the power of three. I know many of you don't believe anything Chris says but lets all just assume what he was saying was correct, what could do them in? 

[Ruth Marie]

Sept 1, 2017 16:50:30 GMT -5 charmedforlife28 said:

Ok so Chris says Piper dies when he was fourteen, what do you think happened that would kill Piper. Do you think the Charmed Ones all died together or Piper died first and then they no longer had the power of three. I know many of you don't believe anything Chris says but lets all just assume what he was saying was correct, what could do them in? 

I didn't really think they all died together, as in literally at the same time. But, the tour guide wouldn't want to get her facts wrong. But it wasn't specific enough with the details.

[adzpower]

It could have been any number of things. We don't know what else was different in Chris' timeline. Was The Source still alive? Zankou? The tour guide says they performed over a thousand demon vanquishes, but she doesn't mention any specifics.

Perhaps someone finally got smart and seperated them, after all, you can't use the power of three without all three witches.

But as for my own personal theory, I'm going with Wyatt. Stated many times in the show he is the only being with more power than The Charmed Ones (eurgh), but regardless, he was evil, his father was missing, I can't really think of anyone else it could realistically be.

[Esmeralda]

And I prefer Wyatt turning evil when he uses his powers trying to bring his mother and aunts back to life. (And, no, that's not an original idea by me - it's from one of my favorite fanfics, Nam Jai's "The Education of the Heir".)

As for who? I think it would be someone who could get a hold of the Hollow and use it to suck up their powers and then vanquish them that way, as the Source would've/should've done if he was even the least-bit intelligent.

[adzpower]

Ooh that's a good point Es! I forgot about the hollow. If its someone who used the hollow, then I'm betting on Zankou, he seemed to be the only truly intelligent demon they ever faced.

[Esmeralda]

No, I think it was someone in the future, someone who was never introduced in the canon series. Even without Chris ever coming back, because I don't think the Titans killed Paige (one of Chris' many, many lies to hide his identity), I still see the Charmed Ones as battling both Zankou and the Jenkinses and and defeating them the same way. Because if Paige had been killed, the Charmed Ones wouldn't have vanquished that many demons as the guide announced.

Although then again, I'll always think it was done the way JustRo described it in her fantastically wonderful 'A Halliwell Christmas Carol" (which I thought was in The Library, but I couldn't find it, so I copied it from another site):

There was another bright flash of lightning and another loud clap of thunder. When Piper opened her eyes, she saw a scene unfolding in front of her, as if it watching a movie. She watched as she saw herself and her family playing, continuing to use magic in their everyday lives for their own, small benefits, ignoring demon attacks on others. She saw the multiple uses of magic as an every-day resource for her and her family, and concentrating on only protecting their own family from demon attacks.

She saw herself defending her sons against an attack of multiple demons – saw herself mortally injured, and dying.

She watched as Leo orbed in to save her, but arriving too late. She watched as Wyatt tried to bring her back to life - and Leo, despite his grief, trying to reason with his son and stop him from his impossible task.

In his grief-stricken rage, Wyatt directed his anger at his father and used his awesome powers as the Twice-Blessed Child to totally obliterate Leo.

Piper gasped as she watched Wyatt go mad with grief and power, stalking the world, hunting down demons, sometimes with Chris, but mostly alone.

She watched as Phoebe and Paige tried to control their nephew, tried to keep him calm, and hunted for the only person they thought could control Wyatt--Leo--not knowing what their nephew had done to their whitelighter.

Tears flooded Piper’s cheeks as she watched Phoebe finally figure out what had happened to Leo and that Wyatt had finally gone too far and that it was no longer just quest for revenge but a thirst for power.

She watched as Phoebe tried to warn Paige, who refused to believe that Wyatt would possibly do such a thing to Leo.

She watched as Phoebe tried to make a demonic alliance to stop Wyatt, but when she tried to talk Paige into joining them, Paige betrayed her.

Tears rolled down Piper's cheek as she watched Wyatt capture Phoebe by using Chris as bait – and executing her – slowly and painfully - while Paige and Chris were forced to watch in anguish.

She watched as Paige finally realized the truth and sneakily tried to kill Wyatt using all her powers in a desperate attempt to save the world from his madness, but failing and being vanquished herself.

Worst of all, she watched Wyatt accuse his own brother Chris of murdering Paige and as penalty, imprisoned him permanently so he'd never be able to go into the past and change what had happened.

All of this unfolded before Piper in a fast-forward sequence that although may have been but a few moments, felt like an eternity to her. Piper could barely take this all in. She fell to floor weeping, her desperate sobs wracking her body, ‘I can’t endure this! Say it’s not true!’ She looked up at her silent companion. ‘I’ve seen enough – take me home! Please! This is torture!’.

[charmedforlife28]

Sept 2, 2017 10:10:58 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

No, I think it was someone in the future, someone who was never introduced in the canon series. Even without Chris ever coming back, because I don't think the Titans killed Paige (one of Chris' many, many lies to hide his identity), I still see the Charmed Ones as battling both Zankou and the Jenkinses and and defeating them the same way. Because if Paige had been killed, the Charmed Ones wouldn't have vanquished that many demons as the guide announced.

Although then again, I'll always think it was done the way JustRo described it in her fantastically wonderful 'A Halliwell Christmas Carol" (which I thought was in The Library, but I couldn't find it, so I copied it from another site):

There was another bright flash of lightning and another loud clap of thunder. When Piper opened her eyes, she saw a scene unfolding in front of her, as if it watching a movie. She watched as she saw herself and her family playing, continuing to use magic in their everyday lives for their own, small benefits, ignoring demon attacks on others. She saw the multiple uses of magic as an every-day resource for her and her family, and concentrating on only protecting their own family from demon attacks.

She saw herself defending her sons against an attack of multiple demons – saw herself mortally injured, and dying.

She watched as Leo orbed in to save her, but arriving too late. She watched as Wyatt tried to bring her back to life - and Leo, despite his grief, trying to reason with his son and stop him from his impossible task.

In his grief-stricken rage, Wyatt directed his anger at his father and used his awesome powers as the Twice-Blessed Child to totally obliterate Leo.

Piper gasped as she watched Wyatt go mad with grief and power, stalking the world, hunting down demons, sometimes with Chris, but mostly alone.

She watched as Phoebe and Paige tried to control their nephew, tried to keep him calm, and hunted for the only person they thought could control Wyatt--Leo--not knowing what their nephew had done to their whitelighter.

Tears flooded Piper’s cheeks as she watched Phoebe finally figure out what had happened to Leo and that Wyatt had finally gone too far and that it was no longer just quest for revenge but a thirst for power.

She watched as Phoebe tried to warn Paige, who refused to believe that Wyatt would possibly do such a thing to Leo.

She watched as Phoebe tried to make a demonic alliance to stop Wyatt, but when she tried to talk Paige into joining them, Paige betrayed her.

Tears rolled down Piper's cheek as she watched Wyatt capture Phoebe by using Chris as bait – and executing her – slowly and painfully - while Paige and Chris were forced to watch in anguish.

She watched as Paige finally realized the truth and sneakily tried to kill Wyatt using all her powers in a desperate attempt to save the world from his madness, but failing and being vanquished herself.

Worst of all, she watched Wyatt accuse his own brother Chris of murdering Paige and as penalty, imprisoned him permanently so he'd never be able to go into the past and change what had happened.

All of this unfolded before Piper in a fast-forward sequence that although may have been but a few moments, felt like an eternity to her. Piper could barely take this all in. She fell to floor weeping, her desperate sobs wracking her body, ‘I can’t endure this! Say it’s not true!’ She looked up at her silent companion. ‘I’ve seen enough – take me home! Please! This is torture!’.

 I would love to read more of that fic if possible

[charmedforlife28]

I always felt like it was Wyatt especially because the hate Chris had for him and Wyatt was introduced to be stronger than even the power of three, which I wasn't a fan of.

[erikamarie]

I was always fully convinced that the Jenkins sisters were able to kill the Charmed Ones, by surprise
As Esmeralda, I think that the Titans/Paige's death story was the cover story cooked up by Chris and Bianca
Chris told he never wanted to change too much the future but he changed a lot, dying
It was his death who turned away the sisters from the Elders and upset Leo making him manipulable by the Avatars
In the original timeline, they never knew who kidnapped Wyatt, Leo lingered serenely an Elder, the sisters went on with their witch life
And their powers kept on growing, so the Triad understood that only infiltrating their darling pupil in the family they could access the Book of Shadow and kill th Charmed Ones by betrayal

[gzv969]

Sept 1, 2017 16:50:30 GMT -5 charmedforlife28 said:

Ok so Chris says Piper dies when he was fourteen, what do you think happened that would kill Piper. Do you think the Charmed Ones all died together or Piper died first and then they no longer had the power of three. I know many of you don't believe anything Chris says but lets all just assume what he was saying was correct, what could do them in? 

I can't imagine what it could be but since its Chris's future I would think it would have to be related to Wyatt turning evil. Something that may have caused Piper to push all common sense and judgment out the window and into an offensive mode. My thought is Wyatt started to go evil, Piper couldn't talk sense into him so she started hunting every demon Wyatt began to associate with and particularly find the one that turned him evil. Piper would have felt Wyatt was under demonic influence. She goes back to the Piper we saw in season 4 episode 2 "Hell Hath no Furry"

[charmedforlife28]

Sept 11, 2017 13:10:00 GMT -5 gzv969 said:

Sept 1, 2017 16:50:30 GMT -5 charmedforlife28 said:

Ok so Chris says Piper dies when he was fourteen, what do you think happened that would kill Piper. Do you think the Charmed Ones all died together or Piper died first and then they no longer had the power of three. I know many of you don't believe anything Chris says but lets all just assume what he was saying was correct, what could do them in? 

I can't imagine what it could be but since its Chris's future I would think it would have to be related to Wyatt turning evil. Something that may have caused Piper to push all common sense and judgment out the window and into an offensive mode. My thought is Wyatt started to go evil, Piper couldn't talk sense into him so she started hunting every demon Wyatt began to associate with and particularly find the one that turned him evil. Piper would have felt Wyatt was under demonic influence. She goes back to the Piper we saw in season 4 episode 2 "Hell Hath no Furry"

Yeah I am guessing Wyatt started turning more evil and Piper ignored it or tried her best not to believe it since it was her son and then my guess would be Wyatt killed an innocent or one of the sisters when they were alone. Then the remaining two Charmed Ones tried to go up against Wyatt but without the power of three they didn't have enough power. 

[gzv969]

Sept 11, 2017 14:14:01 GMT -5 charmedforlife28 said:

Sept 11, 2017 13:10:00 GMT -5 gzv969 said:

I can't imagine what it could be but since its Chris's future I would think it would have to be related to Wyatt turning evil. Something that may have caused Piper to push all common sense and judgment out the window and into an offensive mode. My thought is Wyatt started to go evil, Piper couldn't talk sense into him so she started hunting every demon Wyatt began to associate with and particularly find the one that turned him evil. Piper would have felt Wyatt was under demonic influence. She goes back to the Piper we saw in season 4 episode 2 "Hell Hath no Furry"

Yeah I am guessing Wyatt started turning more evil and Piper ignored it or tried her best not to believe it since it was her son and then my guess would be Wyatt killed an innocent or one of the sisters when they were alone. Then the remaining two Charmed Ones tried to go up against Wyatt but without the power of three they didn't have enough power. 

I always thought of that but I felt Wyatt would still have resisted killing his mom no matter how evil he got. Unless it was by accident, like if piper went at it with him like she did with Cole in the attic in The mummy episode. In an attempt to give him a magical whooping Wyatt fired back.

[charmedforlife28]

Sept 11, 2017 15:37:35 GMT -5 gzv969 said:

Sept 11, 2017 14:14:01 GMT -5 charmedforlife28 said:

Yeah I am guessing Wyatt started turning more evil and Piper ignored it or tried her best not to believe it since it was her son and then my guess would be Wyatt killed an innocent or one of the sisters when they were alone. Then the remaining two Charmed Ones tried to go up against Wyatt but without the power of three they didn't have enough power. 

I always thought of that but I felt Wyatt would still have resisted killing his mom no matter how evil he got. Unless it was by accident, like if piper went at it with him like she did with Cole in the attic in The mummy episode. In an attempt to give him a magical whooping Wyatt fired back.

Yeah maybe as he became more evil, he became friends with demons and when TCO found out they went to vanquish his friend but Wyatt tried to defend his friend and accidentally killed one of the sisters. EX: Flung one into a rock too hard, Used his powers but because he was angry he didn't have as much control of them and injured one. 

[Esmeralda]

Okay, if we're going to believe Chris (I don't, but for the sake of this conversation, okay), here's what he says to Victor, the only time he talks about Piper's death onscreen:

Chris: Look, we should just get back. I'm under cover with some demons who are gonna be looking for me very soon.

Victor: No, no, no, wait. Let's talk. We need to talk.

Chris: Let me guess. Piper asked you here to find out what's wrong with me, right? Victor: She just wants to know why she's such a terrible mother.

Chris: She what? No, no, she's great.

Victor: Then why are you treating her like she doesn't exist? Chris. If what we do is talk, talk to me.

Chris: Because she doesn't exist in my future, okay? She dies when I turn fourteen.

Victor: That, that's the event? How?

Chris: I can't, alright. I've already said way too much. The point is after I save Wyatt, I have to back to where she isn't. I can't get close to her because I don't wanna lose her again.

Victor: Maybe that's all the more reason to get close to her.

He says she died. Not that she was killed or murdered or vanquished, or anything like that, but just died. So I've always thought she died of some illness, that that's what could kill a Charmed One, with Leo unable to heal her after what had happened during 'Awakened' and that's what drove Wyatt evil, like what happened in JustRo's story. And without the Power of Three, any demon could kill Phoebe and Paige - or they might have also died from whatever the disease was.

But, of course, since the tour guide said that they were vanquished, that's not true either. But that's why I believe all three of them were vanquished at the same time, via the Hollow taking away their powers and then some future demon - probably the latest vessel of the Source - was able to vanquish them.

[sol]

Sept 12, 2017 0:04:39 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

Okay, if we're going to believe Chris (I don't, but for the sake of this conversation, okay), here's what he says to Victor, the only time he talks about Piper's death onscreen:

Chris: Look, we should just get back. I'm under cover with some demons who are gonna be looking for me very soon.

Victor: No, no, no, wait. Let's talk. We need to talk.

Chris: Let me guess. Piper asked you here to find out what's wrong with me, right? Victor: She just wants to know why she's such a terrible mother.

Chris: She what? No, no, she's great.

Victor: Then why are you treating her like she doesn't exist? Chris. If what we do is talk, talk to me.

Chris: Because she doesn't exist in my future, okay? She dies when I turn fourteen.

Victor: That, that's the event? How?

Chris: I can't, alright. I've already said way too much. The point is after I save Wyatt, I have to back to where she isn't. I can't get close to her because I don't wanna lose her again.

Victor: Maybe that's all the more reason to get close to her.

He says she died. Not that she was killed or murdered or vanquished, or anything like that, but just died. So I've always thought she died of some illness, that that's what could kill a Charmed One, with Leo unable to heal her after what had happened during 'Awakened' and that's what drove Wyatt evil, like what happened in JustRo's story. And without the Power of Three, any demon could kill Phoebe and Paige - or they might have also died from whatever the disease was.

But, of course, since the tour guide said that they were vanquished, that's not true either. But that's why I believe all three of them were vanquished at the same time, via the Hollow taking away their powers and then some future demon - probably the latest vessel of the Source - was able to vanquish them.

Telling Victor that his daughter was killed it'ld be more cruel

But there is a revelatory espression in Victor/Chris chat

Chris: I can't, alright. I've already said way too much. The point is after I save Wyatt, I have to back to where she isn't. I can't get close to her because I don't wanna lose her again.

If Wyatt killed Piper, Chris'ld hope for saving his mother too
But Wyatt nothing has to do with Piper's death, instead I think that Piper's death was the second trauma of his life, the definitive one

In the original timeline, they never knew who kidnapped Wyatt, Leo lingered serenely an Elder, the sisters went on with their witch life

I agree with Erika, no Avatars, no Zankou, a normal life with some demon or warlock or monster to fix, so normal to take on board Bille and Christy as friends without any doubt about their intentions

[Esmeralda]

Sept 12, 2017 1:04:35 GMT -5 sol said:

Sept 12, 2017 0:04:39 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

Okay, if we're going to believe Chris (I don't, but for the sake of this conversation, okay), here's what he says to Victor, the only time he talks about Piper's death onscreen:


He says she died. Not that she was killed or murdered or vanquished, or anything like that, but just died. So I've always thought she died of some illness, that that's what could kill a Charmed One, with Leo unable to heal her after what had happened during 'Awakened' and that's what drove Wyatt evil, like what happened in JustRo's story. And without the Power of Three, any demon could kill Phoebe and Paige - or they might have also died from whatever the disease was.

But, of course, since the tour guide said that they were vanquished, that's not true either. But that's why I believe all three of them were vanquished at the same time, via the Hollow taking away their powers and then some future demon - probably the latest vessel of the Source - was able to vanquish them.

Telling Victor that his daughter was killed it'ld be more cruel

But there is a revelatory espression in Victor/Chris chat

Chris: I can't, alright. I've already said way too much. The point is after I save Wyatt, I have to back to where she isn't. I can't get close to her because I don't wanna lose her again.

If Wyatt killed Piper, Chris'ld hope for saving his mother too
But Wyatt nothing has to do with Piper's death, instead I think that Piper's death was the second trauma of his life, the definitive one

Along the same lines. If he was trying to not be cruel by not saying that Piper was murdered, I don't think he'd tell Victor that by saving Wyatt, he'd also save Piper - it would be a dead giveaway what a monster Victor's other beloved grandson has become, and since none of them ever knew that it was Wyatt, I think above all he didn't want them to know that.

I think Victor saying that he treated her as if she didn't exist is what got him to say that when he went back, she wouldn't exist.

[sol]

Es, it's enough hard to have to pronunce "died" talking of your mother, killed is hardly possible if you are talking of your mom with you beloved grandfather

Chris never even thought of changing Piper's fate by saving Wyatt, it was Piper to let him hope this possibility - the famous butterfly effect
The Halliwell's have a strong sense of family, Piper and Phoebe were ready to fight hard for Paige even when they barely knew each other
Wyatt, even if traumatized, loved his mother and it's easy to think that Piper's death was the last straw

[Esmeralda]

We'll have to agree to disagree. IF you believe him (and remember, I don't), I do believe that if she was killed, he would have said so. I don't even think it would particularly hurt him since he didn't love his mother. He couldn't and talk so coarsely about his own conception earlier in that same episode if he had any sort of respect for her, no matter how desperate he was, and like Piper with her little errand boy in Season Eight, if you don't respect someone, you can't love them. That's why I first really started hating and mistrusting Chris during 'Hyde School Reunion" and why I was so happy when it was he who died during 'It's a Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad World' and not Wyatt.

Although if Chris didn't love Piper in the future, then Wyatt probably didn't ether, which is why I think it was Wyatt who vanquished all three of them, but each of them separately, probably starting with his mother, since she was the most powerful while he was more powerful than her if she was alone.

[Aaeiyn]

Sept 2, 2017 6:25:00 GMT -5 adzpower said:

It could have been any number of things. We don't know what else was different in Chris' timeline. Was The Source still alive? Zankou? The tour guide says they performed over a thousand demon vanquishes, but she doesn't mention any specifics.

Perhaps someone finally got smart and seperated them, after all, you can't use the power of three without all three witches.

But as for my own personal theory, I'm going with Wyatt. Stated many times in the show he is the only being with more power than The Charmed Ones (eurgh), but regardless, he was evil, his father was missing, I can't really think of anyone else it could realistically be.

Oh, that's a good one and makes sense!  I was thinking an illness, but I like the idea of Wyatt, better!