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Post by vandergraafk on Nov 1, 2007 19:31:42 GMT -5
Looking at both the dialogue and the spell cast by Chris - thanks to Paige, I am struck by the vagueness apparent in each reference. Bianca never distinguishes between witch powers and whitelighter powers. Chris never makes such a distinction either.
Leo notes that Chris's powers are being drained, but doesn't specificy what powers are being drained, even though he (Leo) can really only know that Chris has whitelighter powers. He does note that his own power to heal is being blocked by whatever it is that Bianca has done to Chris. At best, we can conclude that the "virus" is able to repel some outside whitelighter power.
The clincher for me is Paige's spell. Her spell calls upon the power of all witches to restore what had been taken. Well, as we saw in Season 2, the Elders are the only beings who can restore whitelighter powers when they grant Leo's request to become once again a whitelighter (Murphys Luck). So, is it safe to assume that only his witch powers were restored? That's how I read this entire dialogue.
I might add that Chris never attempts to use his whitelighter powers in order to orb to safety away from Wyatt. What good would that have done anyhow? Wyatt is a whitelighter, too, and he clearly would have the ability to track Chris's orb trail. Besides, Chris was desperately hoping that the Charmed Ones had somehow understood his message.
What I am suggesting here is that there is no definitive answer to the question I posed with respect to A Witch in Time. The qualifier "all" is never used with respect to the stripping of Chris's powers. One can construct a credible narrative either way. As I indicated, I will take the simpler path and not accord to future Baccara any really super abilities to take a spell from the Book of Shadows that had been used in one respect and take it to a whole different level when there really is no need to. Just edit out the bad writing. Nothing is lost and a whole bunch of clarity is gained.
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noazmale
Witch
[glow=red,3,300]Sept. FanFic Winner [/glow]
Posts: 1,067
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Post by noazmale on May 21, 2008 3:56:06 GMT -5
Okay, I've seen the phrase "demons glamoring" (or something to that effect) several times in this thread. In the first place, they never stated in Charmed that demons could glamor. That ability was always used in reference to White Lighters. Whenever demons changed their forms it was usually referred to as shape changing.
As for the difference between mortals and immortals it seems to me there are two definitions of mortal in Charmed. Mortals (as in innocents) are referred to many times. But it was also mentioned on several occasions that the sisters being witches weren't mortal. Meaning they weren't innocents because they used magic. So being a non-mortal does not automatically constitute being immortal.
Also, while I don't believe they ever specifically stated it, I think when they use the term immortal in Charmed it was in reference to creatures not affected by the passage of time. Meaning they don't age as humans do and could conceivably live forever, or at least indefinitely. I don't think it means they are indestructible. Obviously they aren't or they couldn't be vanquished.
As for Cole's apparent ability to remain looking 30 even after more than 100 years, he was half demon meaning he was half immortal (if that's possible). Theoretically he would age much slower than a normal human because of his demonic heritage but would eventually age and die of "old" age because of his human heritage. I think it's likely that demons age normally until a specific age (which may differ from species to species or even from demon to demon) and then their immortality "kicks in" so to speak when they reach that age. For Cole it happened to be when he was about 30 or so, significantly slowing his aging processes down. Something like puberty when a child's body goes through drastic physical changes. Also, there was never anything said about Cole having the ability to change his appearance (with the exception of changing to Belthazor, of course) or that changing to Belthazor and back had any affect on his actual aging processes.
Just my two cents worth.
Jerry
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ljones
Whitelighter
Posts: 4,123
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Post by ljones on May 24, 2008 2:55:25 GMT -5
Leo is the only one, as far as I know, who has insisted that the sisters are not mortals.
On the other hand, demons do view the sisters and other witches as mortals. As the series has proven, the Halliwells can die from bullets, stab wounds or head trauma like all other mortals. Which makes me wonder why Leo kept insisting that they were not mortals.
I've heard of a theory that there are sources of magic in all natural beings - animals, plants, minerals, elements, etc. Which would explain why witches uses other animal parts, plants, minerals, etc. as sources of magic for their spells. Perhaps this would explain why witches have magical abilities and be mortals at the same time.
Also, I don't think that one is automatically an innocent, because one is a mortal or human.
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Post by whitelightertony on May 25, 2008 14:05:37 GMT -5
I think Leo meant that the Charmed Ones weren't powerless mortals, because they were born with magical powers. Most mortals aren't born as magical beings.
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ljones
Whitelighter
Posts: 4,123
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Post by ljones on May 26, 2008 0:01:42 GMT -5
I think Leo meant that the Charmed Ones weren't powerless mortals, because they were born with magical powers. Most mortals aren't born as magical beings. From "Just Harried": I suspect that Leo honestly believed that the sisters were not mortals. Unfortunately, the events of "All Hell Breaks Loose" ended up proving him wrong.
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Post by ShantaD on May 26, 2008 21:04:50 GMT -5
I wouldn't be surprised if no one involved in this show actually knew what the definition of "mortal" was. They were probably just following the example of "Bewitched" and "Sabrina" which also referred to non-witch humans as mortals. Although in those two shows, witches weren't entirely mortal, living for hundreds of years and aging very, very slowly once adults.
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Post by whitelightertony on May 28, 2008 0:39:07 GMT -5
Victor was clearly speaking in the context that he preferred for Piper to marry a husband who wasn't magical. That was Victor's perception of what constitutes a "mortal."
Leo was simply responding to Victor in terms that Victor could understand.
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ljones
Whitelighter
Posts: 4,123
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Post by ljones on May 28, 2008 17:06:02 GMT -5
Victor was clearly speaking in the context that he preferred for Piper to marry a husband who wasn't magical. That was Victor's perception of what constitutes a "mortal." Leo was simply responding to Victor in terms that Victor could understand. I understand that Victor had expressed his preference for Piper to marry a mortal. But I do believe that Leo honestly believed that because the sisters were witches, they were not mortal. What he had said to Victor in "Just Harried" was not the only time he had expressed the view that the sisters were not mortal.
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Post by whitelightertony on May 29, 2008 3:23:39 GMT -5
When else did Leo express this belief? Did Leo ever state that the sisters couldn't be killed?
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ljones
Whitelighter
Posts: 4,123
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Post by ljones on May 29, 2008 9:38:47 GMT -5
When else did Leo express this belief? Did Leo ever state that the sisters couldn't be killed? No, he has never said that they couldn't be killed. But Leo has stated on at least two or three occasions that the sisters were not mortals. I'm only stating what was said on the show.
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Post by whitelightertony on May 30, 2008 16:53:35 GMT -5
Then I think it was bad wording on the part of the writers...Leo obviously meant that the girls weren't powerless, non-magical mortals. He's the one who kept reminding Piper she wasn't invincible during and after her pregnancy.
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