charmedfan86
Innocent
"To live,to die, and to live again is to be heartbroken"
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Post by charmedfan86 on Dec 18, 2007 18:08:58 GMT -5
Do you think Piper should have picked Dan over Leo or was she right to pick Leo? Why?
I think she was right to pick Leo. Their love is forever, they were perfect for each other. Though Dan was a good guy, Piper just wasn't "in love" with him.
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Dec 18, 2007 22:37:47 GMT -5
Personally, I think that the whole "their love is forever" argument is rather illusional when it comes to romance or even marriage. Besides, Leo and Dan remind me of each other too much.
In the end, I really don't know who was more suited for Piper. Well, I take that back. In terms of dealing with Piper's magical abilties, I think that Leo was more suited. That's it.
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colehellsangel
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In Love and War; or in this case Love IS war.
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Post by colehellsangel on Dec 19, 2007 21:39:42 GMT -5
Do you think Piper should have picked Dan over Leo or was she right to pick Leo? Why? I think she was right to pick Leo. Their love is forever, they were perfect for each other. Though Dan was a good guy, Piper just wasn't "in love" with him. NO! I hated Dan after he wished he had never found out about the sister's secret. That right there should have been the sure fire sign to dump his heartless behind. Plus he tried way to hard instead of just laying back and allowing her to listen to her heart and make the choice on her own. It seemed like there were certain moments when she was just a prize to be won to him, like when he felt Challenged by Leo. Speaking of which the way he had always been on Leo's case really annoyed me. Piper and Leo forever baby! ;D |
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Esmeralda
Charmed
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Post by Esmeralda on Dec 20, 2007 10:27:23 GMT -5
Well, that was Piper's fault. She should've let Dan know right away, once it appeared that they were truly becoming couple, the way Paige let Henry know. Had he known about their secret and that Leo was their whitelighter, then he wouldn't have been so horrible at the end.
I personally think Piper should've chosen Dan. She wanted a normal life, something Leo could never give her. Had she chosen Dan, she wouldn't have whined about a normal life so much. She also wouldn't have magical kids which made it even harder for her to have a normal life.
Piper didn't love Leo. If she had, she would've been proud of him as a whitelighter and not keep trying to make him something a lot less than he was.
Leo was perfect as her whitelighter, her guide to her powers. Not as her husband.
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colehellsangel
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Post by colehellsangel on Dec 20, 2007 16:19:55 GMT -5
Sorry but While agree with this, I think Piper did love Leo because she wanted him to be with her so much, that shows that she loves him and misses him by her side. She just put her family first is all. I do however agree that she should have also just let him be the whitelighter he was. As I said in another thread though they really got screwed up when he became an elder I hated that.
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Dec 20, 2007 19:49:00 GMT -5
I don't know if I agree or disagree with this statement. But it is certainly something to think about.
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Piper3
Whitelighter
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Post by Piper3 on Dec 20, 2007 22:18:42 GMT -5
I deffinally disagree. Piper loved Leo with all her heart. Although sometimes she treat him a little wrong.
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colehellsangel
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Post by colehellsangel on Dec 20, 2007 23:20:43 GMT -5
I deffinally disagree. Piper loved Leo with all her heart. Although sometimes she treat him a little wrong. Exactly she may have treated him wrong sometimes but it was out of love and think about it she already lost her mother, her grandmother and her sister. It makes sense that she wants to hold on to Leo so tight. Especially after Prue. |
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Esmeralda
Charmed
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Post by Esmeralda on Dec 21, 2007 0:29:35 GMT -5
I deffinally disagree. Piper loved Leo with all her heart. Although sometimes she treat him a little wrong. No, she definitely did not. If she did, she wouldn't have kept trying to make him seem normal when he was anything but, nor would she have kept being upset at him when he was following his own destiny. If she truly loved him as he was, she would've wanted what was best for him, for his destiny, not what was best for her and for her family. She would've been proud of him when he became an Elder. And after he lost his wings, she would've fought the Elders with every tooth and nail for him to get them back, so he could continue his destiny of guiding his charges, rather than her own totally-useless errand boy--something that must've been so degrading for a man brought up in the 20's when men were men and took care of the women-folk. If they truly loved each other, they would've become better people; that's what love does to you. Instead, after she was married, she became a cold, self-centered b*tch who loved Piper and no one else. I'll never forgive Kern for changing the warm funny middle-sister whom I loved into that b*tch whom I abhored! Piper and Leo's love story in S2 was my favorite story arc on Charmed until S6 when it was shown how horrible being married had changed her. That's when I knew the Elders were right--witches having an affair with her whitelighter is NOT a good idea. As soon as they fell in love, the Elders should've taken Leo away and kept him away! |
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colehellsangel
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Post by colehellsangel on Dec 21, 2007 1:39:51 GMT -5
Please pardon me if I am reading wrong but the particular wording of this beginning statement alone makes you sound a little like you are being competitive. Remember that is just your opinion, we all have different views. There are no right or wrong answers despite that some opinions may be better evidence supported than others.
Again sorry if I read you wrong but thats just how it came across to me. That's all.
I happen to agree with Piper3 as I stated in my last post I think she smothered him too much because loosing Prue really hit her and she just did not want to lose her husband too. Considering everyone she has lost even before Prue you can't really blame her for being kind of smothering. Prue was kind of the same way with her sisters and Andy.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Dec 21, 2007 10:40:17 GMT -5
Please pardon me if I am reading wrong but the particular wording of this beginning statement alone makes you sound a little like you are being competitive. Remember that is just your opinion, we all have different views. There are no right or wrong answers despite that some opinions may be better evidence supported than others. Again sorry if I read you wrong but thats just how it came across to me. That's all. I happen to agree with Piper3 as I stated in my last post I think she smothered him too much because loosing Prue really hit her and she just did not want to lose her husband too. Considering everyone she has lost even before Prue you can't really blame her for being kind of smothering. Prue was kind of the same way with her sisters and Andy. Sorry if I sounded competitive--I didn't mean to. You're right, these are opinions; it's just one I feel strongly about because I loved the person Piper was so much in the early seasons and hate so much the person she became in the latter seasons, especially with how she treated the character who *was* my favorite--Leo--until she got a hold of him and made him so much less than he was, which she wouldn't have done if she truly loved him, the only reason for her to be with him rather than a mortal like Dan. I miss my angel! Everyone uses Prue's death as the reason for the change in Piper. I'd take that IF she was that way since Prue's death. She wasn't. She was closer to being my Piper in both S4 and S5--during those seasons, I *loved* her and Leo as a couple. When a friend wrote a fic about Leo and Paige together, I was infuriated that she's put Leo with anyone but Piper! Now I agree that Piper would've been best with someone like Henry (or Dan) who could give her a normal homelife, and Leo would've been best with someone like Paige who would've wanted him to be what he was best--a whitelighter. It was only after S5 when Piper didn't get what she wanted--the Elders didn't let her keep her man rather than letting him become better than he was--that Piper became that cold, hard self-centered b*tch who I hate. Had she changed back after she got Leo back, I'd feel differently, but each seasons she became worse and what happened to Leo was even worse--watching him as Piper's little errand boy or as a mortal Magic School teacher where all of those magical kids could've used their powers on him was torture for someone who loved her angel so much and hated Piper because she didn't realize what she had! I truly wish that when Chris had exploded Leo's atoms at the end of S5 that he had stayed exploded, because then she couldn't change him. (And I would've *loved* watching Chris explain *that*!) Either that (even better), the sisters had agreed to give up their powers at the end of S4 and that was the end of the show. That would've been Charmed at its best for me. It went steadily downhilll after that as it became The Perils of Piper rather than Charmed, with its star, Piper, someone you only liked when you felt sorry for her, not because you admired her as I did all four sisters during the first four seasons. Even after Piper got Leo back, she was still cold and hard and self-centered, nothing like that warm, funny, loving Piper who told Leo that he couldn't become mortal because then he couldn't save the next Daisy in "Love Hurts" or the one who said that others couldn't die due to her in "Awakened". That's the Piper I love and the Piper I miss, not that cold, hard self-centered b*tch of S6-8. The Piper who loved Piper and no one else. And Prue was *anything* but like latter Piper! Yes, she was bossy and full of pride, but it was because she cared about the innocents and cared about her sisters, not because she just cared about herself and just wanted what was best for her and to h*ll with everyone else. It's why I'm glad Prue died--that way Kern didn't have a chance to change her personality the way he changed Piper's. I'm sure as the oldest, *she* would've become that cold, hard self-centered b*tch that Kern seems to think the oldest should be. Like Piper, Prue lost her mother and her grandmother. She also lost her soulmate and unlike Piper, she didn't get him back. That didn't make her hard and cold or forget her duty to the innocents. Prue used her losses to become stronger and better, more loving, more caring to those she still had, which is what should've happened to Piper, showing how one should react to adversity rather than becoming worse and making those around you worse. |
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Post by whitelightertony on Dec 21, 2007 16:35:52 GMT -5
Esmerelda, Piper's personality had to change after Prue's death. Would it have been believable for the warm, funny, sweet Piper of the first three seasons to continue living her life that way after the death of her big sister and best friend?
Well, the difference is that Paige didn't have another man in her life competing with Henry for her affections. Even if Piper had told Dan her secret in mid-Season 2, Dan still would have felt threatened by Leo.
Wrong. Their kids wouldn't have been half-whitelighter, but they still would have been magical witches.
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Esmeralda
Charmed
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Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
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Post by Esmeralda on Dec 21, 2007 17:03:48 GMT -5
Esmerelda, Piper's personality had to change after Prue's death. Would it have been believable for the warm, funny, sweet Piper of the first three seasons to continue living her life that way after the death of her big sister and best friend? BUT IT DIDN"T!! She was still Piper during S4 and S5. There WAS no change in either her or Phoebe after Prue died except Piper was forced into being the oldest and lead. But she was still PIPER! It didn't change until the Elders took away Leo! That's my point! She wanted what was best for HER not what was best for LEO and that's what love is all about! If the only reason she didn't choose Dan who was better for her is because she loved Leo, then she should've wanted what was best for LEO, not what was best for PIPER! |
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Piper3
Whitelighter
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Post by Piper3 on Dec 21, 2007 17:25:42 GMT -5
I deffinally disagree. Piper loved Leo with all her heart. Although sometimes she treat him a little wrong. No, she definitely did not. If she did, she wouldn't have kept trying to make him seem normal when he was anything but, nor would she have kept being upset at him when he was following his own destiny. If she truly loved him as he was, she would've wanted what was best for him, for his destiny, not what was best for her and for her family. She would've been proud of him when he became an Elder. And after he lost his wings, she would've fought the Elders with every tooth and nail for him to get them back, so he could continue his destiny of guiding his charges, rather than her own totally-useless errand boy--something that must've been so degrading for a man brought up in the 20's when men were men and took care of the women-folk. If they truly loved each other, they would've become better people; that's what love does to you. Instead, after she was married, she became a cold, self-centered b*tch who loved Piper and no one else. I'll never forgive Kern for changing the warm funny middle-sister whom I loved into that b*tch whom I abhored! Piper and Leo's love story in S2 was my favorite story arc on Charmed until S6 when it was shown how horrible being married had changed her. That's when I knew the Elders were right--witches having an affair with her whitelighter is NOT a good idea. As soon as they fell in love, the Elders should've taken Leo away and kept him away! Are you serious Piper didnt love Leo? She did everything in her power to get Leo back. You try having a dead Mom,Grandma and older sister die and being the same sweet person. Piper loved Leo. You saying Piper didnt love Leo is like saying Romeo didn't love Julliet. |
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colehellsangel
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Post by colehellsangel on Dec 21, 2007 18:52:21 GMT -5
Sorry if I sounded competitive--I didn't mean to. You're right, these are opinions; it's just one I feel strongly about because I loved the person Piper was so much in the early seasons and hate so much the person she became in the latter seasons That perfectly fine everyone can feel as strongly as they want about what they believe. Esmerelda, Piper's personality had to change after Prue's death. Would it have been believable for the warm, funny, sweet Piper of the first three seasons to continue living her life that way after the death of her big sister and best friend? I completely agree, in fact I discussed this elsewhere(forget where). Prue was not just a big sister to Piper they were best friends. They had a lot of time alone in their own apartment before they moved to the manor and were reunited with Phoebe. Piper really looked up to Prue, and her death really hit her hard, she was hurt and confused and scared to death. Stepping up from middle to oldest is a real big step which REQUIRED her to change because its a massive amount more responsibility than she had ever had. Prue's death also taught her a lot about magic and the Charmed One's responsibilities. I have noticed that The Charmed Ones of seasons four + are more serious about their work and magic than the original Charmed Ones from seasons 1 - 3. Piper's eyes were really opened when she failed four times to bring Prue back. So she lead with more seriousness and understanding. Also as Piper3 pointed out on top of Prue she had already lost her mother and grandmother. Tell me you would not be a totally changed person after loosing almost your entire family. Yes she always did everything in her power to keep him, like Vaya Con Leos when she tried to hide him from the angel of death by making every man on earth look like him. If she did not really love him that why would she care if he lives or dies? Plus after loosing so many people already especially Prue she has the right to be a little smothering. In her shoes I would want to make sure my husband does not end up with my sister, mother and Grandmother too. Not to mention she knows what its like to live almost your whole life without the presence of a father and would not want to allow her children to know the same. Especially because they are boys and boys need a father in their life slightly more than girls. Your very strong opinion is very respected Esmeralda or at least by me(I can't speak for everyone else), but to me evidence seems to support that it was true love and that Piper had every reason to become what she did weather you like it or not. |
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Piper3
Whitelighter
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Post by Piper3 on Dec 21, 2007 19:43:25 GMT -5
yeah. I agree the facts are there.
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Dec 21, 2007 23:06:16 GMT -5
Perhaps Esmerelda believed that Piper's love for Leo wasn't very healthy. Perhaps she believed that Piper's love for Leo was possessive and rather selfish. Or . . . I could be wrong.
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Post by pipercharmedphreak on Dec 22, 2007 3:49:07 GMT -5
what really annoyed me about Dan was his trust issues. He was always soo worried about Piper and Leo being together!
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colehellsangel
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Post by colehellsangel on Dec 22, 2007 16:34:02 GMT -5
what really annoyed me about Dan was his trust issues. He was always soo worried about Piper and Leo being together! Exactly my point when I mentioned him always being on Leo's case(Especially when he was on it literally when he invaded his privacy by looking up his information), he was very disrespectful of the fact that Piper just might feel for Leo more than him. He seemed as though he could not accept loosing. Besides I think She and Leo were already together so Dan just barged in where he did not belong. |
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Post by claygee on Dec 24, 2007 5:45:54 GMT -5
Personally I think that Piper loved Leo very very much. She only wanted to keep her family together - I do not think that was wrong of her. It was hard for her juggling the club and the family and the magic...... poor Piper
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