ljones
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Post by ljones on Nov 16, 2014 0:13:31 GMT -5
If this is a question about who was the best guy for Phoebe . . . I'd say neither. Phoebe lacked the maturity to handle a relationship with someone like Cole. Instead, she demanded that he behave like some boy scout (something that even Leo was incapable of doing) or she would run away or push him away when matters got tough or ugly between them. As for Coop, he was nothing more than some ridiculously "ideal" mate for Phoebe to have some Fantasyland "happily ever after" with. Which did not help the development of her character in the long run.
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Post by Darkhorse Christian on Nov 16, 2014 20:56:03 GMT -5
I say neither of them. Coop didn't appear long enough to really do anything worthwhile, and although her relationship with Cole was exciting and had a lot of potential, in the end they were wrong for each other. If only Phoebe had grown up in her head a bit, learned to accept and love Cole as a powerful and dangerous demon and not just as hot lawyer, then maybe that relationship could have worked out. Maybe. This is mostly the writers and Brad Kern's fault, though. If they had left Cole dead in Season 4 and not ruined his character in Season 5, and had the sisters learned the truth about him being possessed by the Source, then I would say Cole and Phoebe. Ugh, why do you have to ruin all your great couples, Brad Kern? Why? First Piper and Leo, then Phoebe and Cole... It's a good thing Andy died or he would have been ruined, too. Honestly, I don't even think they have the excuse of how they didn't know the truth. Both the finale and nearly every line referencing this storyline after season 5 hints that they at least have some understanding that he didn't set out to become the Source. It was just in season 5 itself that the whole universe decided to pretend Cole was absolutely an irredeemable villain.
As far as learning to accept and love Cole as a powerful and dangerous demon goes, this is exactly the reason I've come to realize that Prue is/would be better for Cole than Phoebe ever was. Because loving and accepting that part of Cole successfully requires one to have the temperance that he himself will sometimes lack due to the inclinations he acquired from both his nature and his upbringing. Even in honest atonement he will make mistakes and bad decisions, which he must be occasionally pulled back from and gradually coached out of. Being the responsible one, Prue would take this into account if…okay, I've gone on about this several times already.
Out of the two, however, Coop is the better guy for Phoebe. Part of it is because they got together at a time when she started to both recover from the pain and learn from her mistakes in regards to the Cole and Jason relationships, and they both found each other in a similar place of relative maturity and firm moral foothold. The other part is really a matter of compatibility. Not only does he epitomize her passion for love, what with being a cupid and all, their powers and jobs (magical and otherwise) are different enough that they would each essentially become each other's supporting players depending on the situation, rather than risk one walking over the other. The only reason he feels like a mail-ordered groom when the Elders' sanctioning of their relationship is revealed in "Forever Charmed" is because he had so little screen and development time beforehand. Had Victor Webster come in with a full season to work with, most likely the Phoebe/Coop relationship would've come across far more organically on the show than it did. |
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Nov 18, 2014 2:51:34 GMT -5
Again, neither Cole or Coop were right for Phoebe. She lacked the maturity to be with Cole. And her romance with Coop was nothing more than a jumped-up, "happily ever after" fantasy that did not allow Phoebe to mature as a character.
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Post by Darkhorse Christian on Nov 18, 2014 15:16:16 GMT -5
Again, neither Cole or Coop were right for Phoebe. She lacked the maturity to be with Cole. And her romance with Coop was nothing more than a jumped-up, "happily ever after" fantasy that did not allow Phoebe to mature as a character. And I maintain my opinion that the Coop thing only felt the way you describe it because the actual development of their romance (and Coop's character in general) into something more organic than that didn't really happen until the comics. Meaning after the show was over, after the writing team changed between media, and story-wise after we (and they) were told that the Elders sent him down specifically for her. On the one hand that means you're absolutely right because the creative team that installed Coop's character into the show didn't envision anything beyond him being a mail-ordered groom for Phoebe's endgame. But on the other hand, if the comics count as canon, that means Coop's autonomy, his value as his own man, and the importance of Phoebe and Coop's legitimate growth as two individual beings falling in love with each other, is officially acknowledged within the Charmed franchise. Seriously, even his name makes more sense now. The show just threw the name "Coop" at him as a lazy informal shorthand for "Cupid". The comics have given him a relative with the surname Coopersmith, hinting that "Coop" is in fact a shorthand nickname for an actual name. In the context of the Charmed universe I see him less as a blatant tool and more as a real person now. |
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Nov 18, 2014 16:19:12 GMT -5
No. Although I usually don't agree with the Charmed wiki, in this case I agree with what they say and all of this took place during the show (bolding mine): Source: charmed.wikia.com/wiki/CoopThe rest that you say is all correct, but this is how their relationship was shown during the show. I definitely thought that he was just another slampiece for Kern to use to give one of the sisters a husband and three children - the only way Kern thought any of them could live sappily ever after and hated the idea of a self-centered cupid who only made Phoebe more selfish and more self-centered, part of why I was certain he was Cole in disguise since no way I'd believe the Elders would want her to find love - Halliwells who find love couldn't care less about innocents or their duty as Charmed Ones; thank God Matthewses don't feel that way - but I really do like him and their relationship in the comics and pray that the writers don't let Cole screw up Phoebe and her life yet again. They would both be so much better off either alone or with someone beside each other. |
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Post by Darkhorse Christian on Nov 18, 2014 17:17:40 GMT -5
Slightly confused about exactly who or what you're disagreeing with here, Es.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Nov 19, 2014 12:08:22 GMT -5
This part:
Although I may have misunderstood what *you* meant.
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Post by Darkhorse Christian on Nov 19, 2014 16:39:35 GMT -5
Ah, I gotcha.
I probably worded that wrong, then, because you and I both express thinking of Coop as a mail-ordered groom, or as you put it, just another slampiece, before seeing how things developed in the comics, reevaluating our opinion of the guy and coming away more positively about it. So I think we both agree on the general point, that had the series finale truly been the last official Charmed content we got, ljones' assessment of Coop would probably be right. My guess is you saw the quoted sentence as me saying the relationship almost literally just poofed out of thin air, but what I was really saying was the way Coop and Phoebe developed into a couple on the show didn't really leave much of an impression beyond "he's clearly just there to be her happy ending."
So it's less "didn't really happen" and more "didn't come across all that well". Yeah, the wording choice on my part didn't come across all that well either.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Nov 19, 2014 22:17:03 GMT -5
Ah, gotcha!
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Chris
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Post by Chris on Nov 20, 2014 15:02:35 GMT -5
I was just going over this with myself a few hours ago...
Honestly, I have to go with Cole because they obviously had more time on screen to form Chemistry and everything with Coop just felt too rushed, and the comics don't really make up for that. I also think Cole really could have redeemed himself, but for some reason the Powers That Be in the form of the Monkey Man Brad Kern felt it was necessary to dump Cole, so we never got a chance to see a true redemption from him.
So yes Coop was just a rushed up mess and Cole obviously had more development in terms of time so I go with Cole.
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Nov 24, 2014 19:08:18 GMT -5
Blame Brad Kern and his writers. If they had done their jobs properly and develop Coop over a period of episodes and not write him as some "fairy tale" mate for Phoebe, perhaps I would have been more hopeful of his relationship with Phoebe. But since that failed to happen, my opinion remains the same.
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Post by aubreeryann on Oct 7, 2015 3:00:32 GMT -5
I will forever be #TeamCole but fans don't always get their way! One think I do really love that the writers snuck in whether it was intentional or not. In "All Halliwell's Eve" we find out that Phoebe's true love's name begins with a C. At the time we are led to believe it was Cole of course we find out that it really ended up being Coop. I truly hope the writers years later when coming up with the final season did that on purpose..
Coop just seemed very obvious that she would fall in love with him. Cole there was passion, a fire in both of them to make it work, a real desire to just simply love each other.
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Post by sol on Oct 8, 2015 9:41:27 GMT -5
I will forever be #TeamCole but fans don't always get their way! One think I do really love that the writers snuck in whether it was intentional or not. In "All Halliwell's Eve" we find out that Phoebe's true love's name begins with a C. At the time we are led to believe it was Cole of course we find out that it really ended up being Coop. I truly hope the writers years later when coming up with the final season did that on purpose.. Coop just seemed very obvious that she would fall in love with him. Cole there was passion, a fire in both of them to make it work, a real desire to just simply love each other. I agree, Coop'ld be a nice counselor, a trusty friend but not an lover, there wasn't chemistry between them Furthermore, I think that the actor - I don't remenber his name- is significant as a codfish , also in Continuum I can't stand him! |
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Oct 8, 2015 13:03:14 GMT -5
The guy who played Coop was Victor Webster who was in Mutant X some years before that.
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Post by lilchi7212 on Nov 10, 2015 22:47:30 GMT -5
Coop just seemed very obvious that she would fall in love with him. Cole there was passion, a fire in both of them to make it work, a real desire to just simply love each other. Relationships are different for each couple there are times when passion amounts to nothing. Passion is usually brief, intense and rocky. Comfort, on the other hand, tends to be softer and more nurturing. Comfort, therefore, is not nearly as exciting, but it tends to last longer. Studies say that passion usually dissipates in 18-24 months. Which is why people who expect their passion to last for 40 years, in essence, are trying to defy the laws of nature. |
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Post by lilchi7212 on Nov 10, 2015 23:00:29 GMT -5
I will forever be #TeamCole but fans don't always get their way! One think I do really love that the writers snuck in whether it was intentional or not. In "All Halliwell's Eve" we find out that Phoebe's true love's name begins with a C. At the time we are led to believe it was Cole of course we find out that it really ended up being Coop. I truly hope the writers years later when coming up with the final season did that on purpose.. Coop just seemed very obvious that she would fall in love with him. Cole there was passion, a fire in both of them to make it work, a real desire to just simply love each other. I agree, Coop'ld be a nice counselor, a trusty friend but not an lover, there wasn't chemistry between them You gotta remember that having chemistry or passion does not guarantee a successful relationship long term. |
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Post by peytonhalliwell on Jun 25, 2017 20:31:01 GMT -5
Coop, because I think Phoebe was in love with love and a cupid would have been the best person for her. I really like the idea of the cupid from Heartbreak City to be with Phoebe too.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Jun 25, 2017 21:00:05 GMT -5
Coop, because I think Phoebe was in love with love and a cupid would have been the best person for her. I really like the idea of the cupid from Heartbreak City to be with Phoebe too. Him or Drake or Coop-in-Season-9-of-the-comics are the ones I'd always liked to have seen her with. Or even better...Kyra. |
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Post by peytonhalliwell on Jun 25, 2017 22:24:47 GMT -5
Coop, because I think Phoebe was in love with love and a cupid would have been the best person for her. I really like the idea of the cupid from Heartbreak City to be with Phoebe too. Him or Drake or Coop-in-Season-9-of-the-comics are the ones I'd always liked to have seen her with. Or even better...Kyra. Kyra would have been interesting to see. I still need to read the comics to see what Coop in the comics would have been like. |
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Jun 26, 2017 5:32:42 GMT -5
Him or Drake or Coop-in-Season-9-of-the-comics are the ones I'd always liked to have seen her with. Or even better...Kyra. Kyra would have been interesting to see. I still need to read the comics to see what Coop in the comics would have been like. Put it this way. In the Season 9 comics, Coop and Phoebe was my favorite couple. I've never said those words when talking about the series. But not S10. No one's my favorite couple in that season, just like no one is my favorite character except for Kyra and Andy. I hated what Pat Shand did to all of the other couples. |
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