The Whitelighter Dilemma

[foxfire]

(Quick apology if this thread is hidden somewhere on here and since I couldn't find one in search, this'll have to do)

Here's a quick quote from another thread:

Aug 12, 2009 15:03:44 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

It's nice to be reminded of the good old days before Kern started using whitelighters for something that they really were not supposed to be. They were supposed to be messengers between the elder whitelighters and the witches, not magical taxicabs or magical doctors.

Of course, this was in discussion of how the girls used to drive around rather than orb to the locations of their vanquishings. The source of the argument lies in the statement that Whitelighters are supposed to just be guardians and just watch over their witches. They are to guide and not necessarily to help.

So the question is: Should Whitelighters be messengers or magical taxicabs/doctors?


My personal theory is that they all are messengers. We don't really get to see many Whitelighters in action and we just assume that Leo is exactly how Whitelighters are supposed to be. Assumptions are bad! Haha, as we know Leo is definitely not your typical Whitelighter and is probably the one Whitelighter you don't want to use as a role model. I mean, look at Chris... he wasn't orbing the sisters everywhere and healing them (mostly because he couldn't)... he was assigning them tasks.

I think the only reason we got the "magical taxicab" or "magical doctor" was because that was Leo's choice. After all, it's faster to orb and it's more efficient because that way you're not risking getting stuck in traffic and having your innocent get slaughtered by an angry demon. When it comes to healing, why wouldn't Leo offer to heal the girls? More often than not, it is pretty grave and it's just so much more convenient to do that.

If we were to have the Whitelighters in the messenger role... Leo would have to be relegated to guest star or he'd only be sitting around doing nothing letting the girls drive (although try to tell Paige she can't orb and she'll orb you lovely bits somewhere where the sun shines VERY intensely) and having them constantly bandage themselves up (plus, scars don't look good on these girls ).

[Assassin Witch]

Leo is definitely not your average Whitelighter. I don't know quotes, but just look at BBTW and Natalie. You definitely know Leo is not your typical whitelighter.

Then again, there had to be something special in him for the Elders to assign him to The Charmed Ones. He wasn't supposed to be typical.

And, of course! He was in love with Piper. He married her in S3. He was FAMILY. So, yes, healing them all the time and orbing them wherever. It's what family does, right?

And, as Esmeralda would say, Leo's whipped.

[foxfire]

I would hardly say he's whipped. After all, he argues a lot with Piper and hardly ever gives it when it comes to the "Big Stuff" (unless he's wrong, like with the binding powers thing). Plus, he ignores her calls sometimes. Such a guy thing to do.

The Charmed Ones always needed someone who wasn't going to get in their way or tell them what to do. I mean you can't tell Prue what to do... ever... Whitelighter or not. And she was the "leader" of the group when they were first starting out.

[Esmeralda]

Well, as Es would say, he wasn't girl thingy-whipped until Season Eight when he became Piper's little errand boy. As a whitelighter, as my angel, he was wonderful, especially when he *was* that guide and not the magical taxicab/doctor--just used by the sisters and not doing his job. After those first couple of episodes he *so* should've walked out on her and found a way to either get back his wings or go back to his own time.

The last time I truly saw him act as my angel was Season Five, "Oh, My Goddess", my least-favorite episodes except for this part:

Paige: We have to declare ourselves gods.

Leo: It's how the ancient Greeks did it.

Piper: Chris told us not to do that.

Leo: Well, Chris is wrong. He doesn't know you like I do.

Phoebe: But Leo, the ancient Greeks lost their humanity.

Leo: You're not the ancient Greeks, you're the Charmed Ones. I didn't give you anything you can't handle. Phoebe, you lost yourself to the darkest love that ever existed and you came back. Of course, you can handle being the goddess of love.

Phoebe: I never thought of it that way.

Leo: Paige, you're the goddess of war because you've been consumed with gaining power but you've never let the power consume you. Piper, is it any wonder I made you the goddess of earth? You are everything that is good and beautiful in this world. The mother of my son.

Piper: You really have that much faith in us?

Leo: Do you really even need to ask that? It's like I've always said, your power comes from your emotion and right now you need to dig deeper than you ever have before. Whatever motivates you. Your heart, your soul, your darkest fears. Whatever it takes, you need to find that and channel it into power. Power not to capture the Titans, but to destroy them forever.

I melt just reading this. And then he becomes an Elder and he was never the Charmed Ones' angel again. No wonder I hate Seasons 6-8 so much...


GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR@Kern!

[foxfire]

I think they ended up trying too hard with Leo that they'd exhausted the character by season eight. I mean, they had him as an Elder then he was disgraced by becoming an Avatar... *sigh*

But things really were back in order. If it weren't for the WB (not Kern) we would have seen more of the sisters (and more of Leo) as Brad Kern had originally intended. But the network wanted a potential spin-off character... and that's why Leo got frozen.

[Esmeralda]

Of course, you're right. It's why I desperately wish that Brian Krause had not signed his second contract, the one that kept him for S6-8. I wish when we saw Chris blow up Leo's orbs into smithereens at the end of S5, they'd stayed blown up.

But what you say works for the sisters, too. It's why I wish they had quit while they were ahead--end of S3; end of S4.

[foxfire]

Personally, I feel like we should all erase season seven and keep two things from it: Charisma Carpenter and all of Paige's sexy outfits. It's probably the most jumbled of all the seasons.

Here's a thought (since you brought it up):

What if season six had Charisma Carpenter introduced as the Seer who was really working for Gideon. However, she repents and becomes mortal. Then, Leo can get killed in the finale (like Chris). That way we still actually make sure we get Piper pregnant (as she kind of had to be as she was at the time). However, season seven would then act as a season where Piper learns to be a single mom of two and we get Charisma as their new Whitelighter. Could be hilarious.

[Esmeralda]

*nods* Definitely possible; definitely better than what we got.

Funny how that's what Kern originally wanted S6 to be all about--Piper as a single mom--but a certain cute little upstart kinda stole her thunder...

[~B@MeLiSsA30@B~]

Season 7 & 8 aren't the best, but if Leo died. I would hate those seasons as much as you do.

[Esmeralda]

Yup, you'd probably hate them the way we Prue-fans hate the ones that don't include her. But you could still remember him as he was, not the, the, the whatever that Kern turned him into.

I remember how upset I was when I saw Leo's atoms exploded and how much I wished we'd get him back and how happy I was when he came back. Just like all the fans wanting to know more about the magical community and us getting the "Leprechauns and Fairies and Unicorns, oh, my" of S5, watch out what you wish for--you might get it.

[Piper Sorelli Halliwellღ]

I'm not sure how I would of felt if Leo had died.

I would be really sad but then again it would of been really interesting to see how each character would of dealt with his death. Especially Piper, Wyatt, and Chris.

[Esmeralda]

Well, if what happens when other characters left is any indication, they would've forgotten about him before S7 was half-over, and you never would've heard him mentioned again. And I would've been INFURIATED!

[~B@MeLiSsA30@B~]

I didn't like it when he became an Elder or an Avatar.

Which is really the only reason I didn't like S7 that much. I really like Zankou though. But I still liked Leo. I just didn't like what the avatars did to get his attention.

My favorite times with Leo was in S3.

[ghostrider]

Now I'm not to savvy on the last two seasons....caught a few episodes here and there....so if I crash and burn, I guess it won't matter as I am already a ghost, but....what if Leo did die and came back as a ghost. No powers, just a ghost. That would be familiar territory for Piper.

And lets say that after a few story-lines she comes to terms with it and finds a way to go on. Leo would still be there for those viewers who needed him to remain, but Piper would have moved in another direction.....

[CharmedFaith]

Whitelighters as already mentioned are suppose to guide and watchover their charges, basically watching them from a distance and making sure they dont get themselves killed. Originally they werent even suppose to reveal themselves to their charge.

Killing Leo off wouldve been a gutsy move for the show which of course they werent willing to do but to me they had two options that wouldnt had end up ruining the charecter:

1. Have Leo reassigned and Leo just strictly becomes Pipers husband. There is another whitelighter (like Natalie) who does the job he was suppose to do before he got involved with Piper and started breaking all those nice lil rules.

2. Have Leo killed off in S6 or so and just dont bring him back until the very end of the show. The Elders would have brought him back as a gift to TCO for their work.

[foxfire]

Aug 22, 2009 0:26:25 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

Yup, you'd probably hate them the way we Prue-fans hate the ones that don't include her.

I'm a die-hard Prue fan and I still enjoy the other seasons. I don't "hate" much about Charmed because it's so much more easier to be positive and look at the good things than nitpick all the bad things. Trust me. Sometimes you just have to trust it's for the best (look at how the Sex and the City movie fixed the finale of the show, it shook it up and took it a little farther from storybook perfection).

Anyway, I still think Charisma Carpenter should have come in as their Whitelighter. I mean she had amazing chemistry with Alyssa Milano and in See Jane Date she had good chemistry with Holly Marie Combs. So it may be interesting to have a demon-turned-Whitelighter. I feel it would have been a little less "I Love Piper" that way. You know, without everything always being about Wyatt?

[dylan345]

Foxfire, I so agree about your idea of Charisma as their whitelighter. All girls! I too loved her interactions with the actresses on the show. All through her episode I was hoping she'd become a main character because she was so cool. And then of course she died.

Now, I love Leo, and I thought he was at his best as a whitelighter. But maybe it would be for the best if, like one poster said, he were no longer the Charmed Ones' whitelighter, but still had his other charges. In this way he could still be with Piper but not have magic interfere quite as much.

And about the original topic of this thread, I had an idea: what if whitelighters could only orb "up there?" No orbing to vanquish a demon, or anything like that. Or maybe in addition to orbing to whitelighter central, they have the ability to orb to the underworld, or places like that where any other type of travel other than magical wouldn't work. I'm okay with him being their "doctor" as long as their injuries are magic-related, and more serious than just a scratch or two. I think it adds to the element of the sisters working hard at what they do and being more tough if they have to deal with some things.

[Esmeralda]

I like your idea of whitelighters only being able to orb "Up There"--then Paige and Chris wouldn't be able to orb at all. Anything to prevent them from acting like whitelighters before they're dead, and it would help whitelighters remain what they're supposed to be--messengers--not magical taxicabs.

[ljones]

I never really liked the idea of whitelighters in the first place. It almost seemed as if Constance Burge was too afraid to portray witches as Wiccans and needed the whitelighters to inject Judeo-Christianity into the series to appease the viewers. Even worse, the presence of the whitelighters hardened the series' black-and-white morality.

[foxfire]

Aug 23, 2009 10:16:26 GMT -5 dylan345 said:

I had an idea: what if whitelighters could only orb "up there?" No orbing to vanquish a demon, or anything like that. Or maybe in addition to orbing to whitelighter central, they have the ability to orb to the underworld, or places like that where any other type of travel other than magical wouldn't work.

What about when they need to orb innocents out of the way? :S They're not allowed to bring anyone "up there" so they'd be pretty hard-pressed if they needed to do a quick orb out of danger.

And yes... I hated Kira's (Charisma) death on Charmed. I was so beyond shocked and angry... I was like WTF?! I mean, I don't even get the point of why they did it. She didn't really pose a threat anymore... it was so unnecessary.

Although it's interesting as ljones brought up, what if the series didn't have whitelighters and stuck closer to a more "Wiccan" approach with the magical world? I feel it would have been a bit too similar to Buffy...