Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920 
|
Post by Esmeralda on Dec 26, 2009 23:41:57 GMT -5
Es isn't saying that at all--Es is saying in the next generation only--Prudence Melinda and her cousins. Since that's the generation that the Charmed Ones would be taking care of, that's what would let them have a normal life--I don't think it would be necessary for them to be dead for the new set of Charmed Ones to pop up.
Of course, hopefully, since they would still be witches (just no magic and no powers), they would train their children properly so that their children would be able to train the Charmed Ones' grandchildren properly.
But seeing how well the Charmed Ones did this time around (cough! cough!), I somehow doubt it.... But since Grams and Patty never did that...
But then again, if Phoebe never had to live through Season Five with Cole, and Piper never had to live through Season Six with Chris who never would've had to come back from the future, and Paige never had to have charges while she was still alive, just maybe they would be able to train their kids how to train *their* kids how to enjoy magic besides just using it to protect innocents without misusing it--remembering that Wrong Things Done for the Right Reasons are Still Wrong!
Just think--four quality seasons of Charmed, with everything set up for a sequel--the next generation, all properly trained in, as Grams should've trained the sisters, so it would indeed be different than the original.
How I wish, how I wish, how I wish!
Yeah, I know--Kern would never agree to it. But I could always wish for a different executive producer, couldn't I? You guys know me by now--if I'm gonna dream, I'm gonna dream BIG!
|
|
|
|
Post by CharmedFaith on Dec 27, 2009 11:37:34 GMT -5
Well you cant expect TCO to live normal lives if their grandchildren just suddenly pop out magical. So imo the only logical way for them to lead a truely normal life would have to be no magic in the halliwell line until they are dead. ANd of course than Piper and family would just be setting their future descendants up for possible failure just like what happened to them. Who knows how well Prue,Piper,Phoebe would have faired if they didnt become witches so blindly but knew about their powers and had time to develop them and their craft.
|
|
Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
|
Post by Esmeralda on Dec 27, 2009 14:03:20 GMT -5
*nods* OK, so The Charmed Ones all die before their grandchildren are born or are old enough to accept their destiny by one of them opening the attic door. I can accept that. Who knows? Maybe the demons kill off the Charmed Ones and their children, leaving the next generation to take over.
And *if* the sisters trained their children so their children could train theirs (and if Piper and Paige didn't, I think Phoebe would--she was the one who asked about what would happen to the Book, so she would want the ones in the future to be more ready than she and her sisters were), then you'd have a spin-off totally different from "Charmed"--you'd see what it could've been like had you had the Halliwells (I'd like to think it would be three sisters, but no longer think that would be necessary, part of the change of destiny, as Wyatt, Chris and Henry Jr all proved) who were properly trained.
|
|
Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
|
Post by Esmeralda on Dec 30, 2009 11:26:55 GMT -5
Thinking about this whole change of destiny thing made me think of the way the series ended.
Most of you know that I don't think "Forever Charmed" was real; that it's Piper's delusion as she dies after the explosion at the end of "Kill Billie, Vol 2." Well, I was trying to figure out what would've had to have happened for me to believe that it was real.
It would mean a lot of rigamarolling (alternate universe supreme), but I figured it out. If that had happened at the end of Season Four rather than Season Eight, I would've believed it, and I undoubtedly would've bought the Season Four DVD to go along with my S1-3 ones.
The closeness between Piper and Leo that we saw during "Forever Charmed" would make sense to me, since they would still be newlyweds and didn't have kids, rather than me wishing that Leo had had the balls to walk out on the b*tch long before he was frozen.
The way Piper concentrated on Phoebe and hardly mentioned Paige during "Forever Charmed" would've made sense since Phoebe is the sister she grew up with, and not the sister she hardly knew and still hadn't totally accepted.
Going against the Ultimate Evil during "Forever Charmed" woud've make sense--it could be The Source of All Evil possessed by the Hollow (and hopefully we would've never seen his face) rather than the sisters being the Ultimate Evils themselves even more than the two they were fighting.
Rather than having both Paige and Phoebe rushed into marriage, possibly seeing them with the ones the fans wanted--Phoebe marrying Cole (since there he wouldn't have been possessed by the Hollow and was still mortal) and Paige marrying her best friend, Glenn, since we never would've met Jessie.
And, of course, the biggest part for Es--rather than Leo the mortal who Es can never accept as happy to be Piper's little errand boy for the rest of his life, Leo still a whitelighter, never an Elder, never an Avatar, never a useless mortal, glamouring himself to look the same age as Piper.
Most important of all--no change of destiny and no additional prophecy--they would still be protecting innocents, not protecting the Twice Blessed Brat.
I still wouldn't think that Piper could've survived that explosion, but I would've believed that most of the rest of it was real which I couldn't while watching "Forever Charmed"--compared with the rest of Charmed, the only way any of it was believable was if it was Piper's fantasy.
Yes, you'd need a different explanation for how Piper goes time-traveling, but then I can't accept the fact that she could use a cupid's ring unless it's her fantasy, since it should only work for a cupid. As I said, it would take a lot of rigamarolling, but if it could be done, rather than "Witch Way Now", Season Four should've ended with "Forever Charmed". We'd only have had half of our seasons, but they would all be quality, be consistent and make sense!
Best of all, I'd still love all four sisters and my angel, which I most definitely did not during "Forever Charmed" when I only still loved Prue and Paige.
In conclusion, if they wanted to do this whole change of destiny bit, doing that as a true spin-off--"CHARMED: Change of Destiny" would've made a lot more sense.
Whatcha think?
|
|
|
|
Post by dylan345 on Dec 30, 2009 12:13:36 GMT -5
Makes sense to me. I hated how the show changed so much from the beginning when there was never any hint before season four's finale that the main premise of the show would change.
However, the time travel still wouldn't make sense, because they had gone back before to see their mother and Grams, and unless somewhere along the line they had their memories erased, either this episode or the time travel one from season one is wrong. However, since it would be Piper's fantasy I guess it doesn't have to make sense.
It still would have hurt a bit that Piper didn't even check to make sure Paige wasn't dying alone somewhere in the debris from the explosion, even though at the end of season four she hadn't known her that long, but it would fit better there rather than years down the line.
I like how the original prophecy doesn't change, but I also feel like somehow season four should have been expanded into two seasons, without all the goofiness of season five, because just having Paige come in for a year doesn't make a lot of sense. After two years we would have all been able to bond with her character more. After only one year we might find it harder than with Phoebe and Piper.
|
|
Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
|
Post by Esmeralda on Dec 30, 2009 12:34:29 GMT -5
Someone somewhere suggested that the whole thing would've made more sense had they used Season Four to mourn Prue and getting to know and accept Paige, and then using Season Five for the whole Source of All Evil plotline.
If they kept the regular prophecy and destiny in place (translation: Piper never gets pregnant), then I'd agree.
|
|
ljones
Whitelighter
Posts: 4,123
|
Post by ljones on Dec 31, 2009 5:06:05 GMT -5
Yes, I believe it is that simple. I believe that it should have been that simple. I have never liked the series premise that because one has magical abilities, one is forced to become some kind of demon hunter under the authority of guardian angels. There is nothing admirable about that. It's like supporting the idea of military draft. And I found it tacky that Constance Burge and later, Brad Kern would support something like that.
Why is the idea of people having magical abilities being forced or coerced into becoming demon hunters so appealing to people? That does not make any sense to me.
What exactly is supposed to be "the Ultimate Evil"? The Source? Wasn't the Source simply an upper-level demon? Think about it. If the Charmed Ones really went up against the "Ultimate Evil", they would lose. At least on their own.
|
|
Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
|
Post by Esmeralda on Dec 31, 2009 5:49:27 GMT -5
What exactly is supposed to be "the Ultimate Evil"? The Source? Wasn't the Source simply an upper-level demon? Think about it. If the Charmed Ones really went up against the "Ultimate Evil", they would lose. At least on their own. LOL, you're right--Brad Kern would've canceled them.  |
|
|
|
Post by dylan345 on Jan 1, 2010 16:45:23 GMT -5
Why is the idea of people having magical abilities being forced or coerced into becoming demon hunters so appealing to people? That does not make any sense to me. I understand why you don't like the idea, but I'll try to explain why I do. It's not that I want them to be forced into something dangerous and that they hate. But when I see them adapt to it and somehow manage to keep up their personal lives (for the most part) while still fighting demons and saving innocents, it makes me feel as if I too can work through things I may be dealing with. I may have just had a problem come into my life that I didn't ask for either, and it may scare me and make me angry, but seeing the sisters make it work for them makes me feel like I can make it work too. It isn't fair, and it simply sucks that they have to go through it, but I find it appealing because it motivates me a little each time I watch an episode. Seeing them barely make it through a tough situation and then seeing them sitting at P3 later on, looking like nothing happened, makes me want to be that in control myself. |
|
ljones
Whitelighter
Posts: 4,123
|
Post by ljones on Jan 1, 2010 23:28:21 GMT -5
In that scenario, I guess we know who the "Ultimate Evil" would be.  |
|
Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
|
Post by Esmeralda on Jan 2, 2010 6:56:41 GMT -5
In that scenario, I guess we know who the "Ultimate Evil" would be. LOL, exactly. Seriously, however, in the scenario I set up, in order for me to consider Forever Charmed as real, The Source would have to not just be an upper-level demon, but the true Source of All Evil (with that not just being his title), so that when the sisters die by vanquishing him (and neither possessed by the Hollow, that whole storyline is what made the Source *NOT* the Source, because if he was the True Source of All Evil--not just his title--then he wouldn't need the Hollow to become more evil, besides not needing Good to work with Evil, which was the beginning of making Good Evil and Evil Good--all part of why I haven't bought the S4 DVD), they have truly vanquished *the* Ultimate Evil and have earned the life we see them having at the end. Realistic? Of course not. You can't vanquish the real Source of All Evil (Lucifer) without truly bringing on the end of the world. But that just shows you how very unrealiistic I consider "Forever Charmed". And if you want a wonderful fantasy show (which I count Charmed as), that's still the way I would want it to end. |
|
|
|
Post by Astral Echo on Jan 2, 2010 9:38:08 GMT -5
Why is the idea of people having magical abilities being forced or coerced into becoming demon hunters so appealing to people? That does not make any sense to me. I understand why you don't like the idea, but I'll try to explain why I do. It's not that I want them to be forced into something dangerous and that they hate. But when I see them adapt to it and somehow manage to keep up their personal lives (for the most part) while still fighting demons and saving innocents, it makes me feel as if I too can work through things I may be dealing with. I may have just had a problem come into my life that I didn't ask for either, and it may scare me and make me angry, but seeing the sisters make it work for them makes me feel like I can make it work too. It isn't fair, and it simply sucks that they have to go through it, but I find it appealing because it motivates me a little each time I watch an episode. Seeing them barely make it through a tough situation and then seeing them sitting at P3 later on, looking like nothing happened, makes me want to be that in control myself. I agree with Dylan. The basic foundations of a storyline is the main character(s) wants to achieve something but is taken on a journey that will throw in hurdles at them. For Piper, it's to grow up, get married, have kids while still prospering in her career. Becoming a witch was her biggest hurdle but also the thing that set her up on her path to achieve her life goal. From being a witch she met the love of her life, Leo, they had three children and eventually Piper got achieved success at work. Alot of this wouldn't have happened without magic. Piper probably would of settled for second best (not necessarily knowing that), Dan and had children but she probably wouldn't of been as headstrong as we saw her as witch. She may not have achieved her culinary dreams cause she'd of been to shy to do so. Remember her at Quake? Remember her rolling over to please her boss, she only stood up to him because of the strength fighting demons had given her. Without that strength, she might of worked at Quake for the rest of her life, not likely but possible. Phoebe however, was a lost soul. She needed magic to achieve her goal to become a better person and fulfill whatever destiny the world had for her. Remember in Prewitched, she left San Francisco to discover who she was, it wasn't until she returned and became a witch that she truly discovered who she was and what her life goal was. Being a witch inspired her to go back to college, it helped her settle down, it also helped get a career. Remember her telling Prue that she no longer enjoyed being the career-less sister? Magic gave her that drive. Not to mention the fact that magic brought them together as sisters, literally in the case of Paige. |
|
|
|
Post by CharmedFaith on Jan 2, 2010 13:00:45 GMT -5
The Source was basically like The First on Buffy. Buffy went up against and beat The First evil but she didnt kill it. She just weakend it enough for it go back to its sleeping state. The Source is kind of the same. He is The Source of all evil, he may be able to be vanquished but he never truly dissapears, the essence (how it should have been shown sometime in the show) always passes on to another host who takes up that mantle. The Source was clearly powerful enough to kill TCO when he thought correctly. But the Hollow just allowed The Source to become stronger than he was and absorb powers. Just like how The First would have become even more powerful if its minions overrode the earth and tipped the balance, allowing The First to truly enter every living person.
|
|
Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
|
Post by Esmeralda on Jan 2, 2010 18:53:05 GMT -5
Yup, I agree--that's the way it was shown on Charmed. But it's why a Source infected by the Hollow wouldn't be a strong enough Ultimate Evil to make "Forever Charmed" truly seem real to me--he was just their leader; whoopee; there's always another leader. Calling him the First makes sense; calling him the Source of All Evil, when he most definitely was not--that was just a title.
|
|
pixiesunbelle
Familiar
Find me on Discord! pixiesunbelle#7381
Posts: 243
|
Post by pixiesunbelle on Jan 9, 2010 15:01:52 GMT -5
I never understood how having supernatural powers is supposed to make one obligated to become a demon hunter? That is one aspect of the show that has always eluded me. I could understand if the sisters did so, because they wanted to pursue that type of lifestyle. But being obligated because one has supernatural powers? I've always had trouble with that. As for the sisters' past actions - good or bad - well, I've commented upon that many times. I believe that it just depends on your lineage and the type of magic you were given. TCO are obligated to do what they do because they are not just powerful witches but are TCO. Other witches are also innocents to TCO and they are obligated to save them. Having magical abilities do not obligate you to do good or bad things with them. |
|
|
|
Post by Quadquetra on Jan 9, 2010 15:37:33 GMT -5
I never understood how having supernatural powers is supposed to make one obligated to become a demon hunter? That is one aspect of the show that has always eluded me. I could understand if the sisters did so, because they wanted to pursue that type of lifestyle. But being obligated because one has supernatural powers? I've always had trouble with that. As for the sisters' past actions - good or bad - well, I've commented upon that many times. I believe that it just depends on your lineage and the type of magic you were given. TCO are obligated to do what they do because they are not just powerful witches but are TCO. Other witches are also innocents to TCO and they are obligated to save them. Having magical abilities do not obligate you to do good or bad things with them. In my opinion if these girls were as selfish as a few people I have spoken to before think then in the beginning they wouldnt have even tried to help people they could have given their powers up and known they couldnt help anyone in need again, they kept them to keep doing good. Now obligated? I dont believe they were obligated, they could have gone on with their lives and not done anything |
|
pixiesunbelle
Familiar
Find me on Discord! pixiesunbelle#7381
Posts: 243
|
Post by pixiesunbelle on Jan 10, 2010 1:48:22 GMT -5
I believe that it just depends on your lineage and the type of magic you were given. TCO are obligated to do what they do because they are not just powerful witches but are TCO. Other witches are also innocents to TCO and they are obligated to save them. Having magical abilities do not obligate you to do good or bad things with them. In my opinion if these girls were as selfish as a few people I have spoken to before think then in the beginning they wouldnt have even tried to help people they could have given their powers up and known they couldnt help anyone in need again, they kept them to keep doing good. Now obligated? I dont believe they were obligated, they could have gone on with their lives and not done anything True. But once they accepted their powers they were obligated to use them for fighting evil. Giving them up would mean they were under no such obligation. |
|
Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
|
Post by Esmeralda on Jan 10, 2010 11:20:08 GMT -5
In my opinion if these girls were as selfish as a few people I have spoken to before think then in the beginning they wouldnt have even tried to help people they could have given their powers up and known they couldnt help anyone in need again, they kept them to keep doing good. Now obligated? I dont believe they were obligated, they could have gone on with their lives and not done anything True. But once they accepted their powers they were obligated to use them for fighting evil. Giving them up would mean they were under no such obligation. I think they were "obligated" only in the fact that the demons kept coming after them when they no longer actually wanted to look for and save innocents--their change of destiny. Had they given up their powers at the end of S4, as they should've since that's when the show should've ended, they'd have no powers for the demons to go after and they'd be safe. |
|
pixiesunbelle
Familiar
Find me on Discord! pixiesunbelle#7381
Posts: 243
|
Post by pixiesunbelle on Jan 10, 2010 12:28:11 GMT -5
True. But once they accepted their powers they were obligated to use them for fighting evil. Giving them up would mean they were under no such obligation. I think they were "obligated" only in the fact that the demons kept coming after them when they no longer actually wanted to look for and save innocents--their change of destiny. Had they given up their powers at the end of S4, as they should've since that's when the show should've ended, they'd have no powers for the demons to go after and they'd be safe. Well, they would have saved innocents but in reality the demons were no longer going after innocents but their sights were set on Wyatt and TCO for the most part. There are plenty of episodes containing innocents.... I do think that after S4 they did want to save innocents; but by S5 the girls were tired maybe except for Paige. No, they didn't want to anymore but they did when they came to them. Were they obligated to look for demons? No. Were they obligated to help when an innocent came around looking for help? Yes. These are two very different obligations. |
|
Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
|
Post by Esmeralda on Jan 10, 2010 13:32:17 GMT -5
I think they were "obligated" only in the fact that the demons kept coming after them when they no longer actually wanted to look for and save innocents--their change of destiny. Had they given up their powers at the end of S4, as they should've since that's when the show should've ended, they'd have no powers for the demons to go after and they'd be safe. Well, they would have saved innocents but in reality the demons were no longer going after innocents but their sights were set on Wyatt and TCO for the most part. There are plenty of episodes containing innocents.... I do think that after S4 they did want to save innocents; but by S5 the girls were tired maybe except for Paige. No, they didn't want to anymore but they did when they came to them. Were they obligated to look for demons? No. Were they obligated to help when an innocent came around looking for help? Yes. These are two very different obligations. Precisely. And Wyatt would've been perfectly safe had they agreed to not continued on as witches, because in order to have that destiny, Wyatt wouldn't have been born on that special day and have all those powers. By agreeing to stay Charmed they screwed up their second destiny before it even got going. The fact that there is such an episode as "ChrisCrossed" where Chris has to come back shows how badly the sisters (especially Piper) screwed it up. |
|
