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Post by SEERofCHAOS on Mar 7, 2010 20:00:34 GMT -5
There are so many Ultimate powers it is so confusing.
First the Charmed Ones were stated to be the most powerful witches in exsistence. The Wyatt came with all his little powers. Then there was the Nexus which granted the user of it immense power. There was also the Hollow which can take in all magic and destroy the world. Lastly there were Billie/Christy.
What do you think is the true Ultimate Power?
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Post by forbes on Mar 8, 2010 3:44:47 GMT -5
There are so many Ultimate powers it is so confusing. First the Charmed Ones were stated to be the most powerful witches in exsistence. The Wyatt came with all his little powers. Then there was the Nexus which granted the user of it immense power. There was also the Hollow which can take in all magic and destroy the world. Lastly there were Billie/Christy. What do you think is the true Ultimate Power? Well I think it is the Charmed ones. Look at how much they have been through! The ones that only really matched them were Billie and Christi, because they couldn't actually defeat them - but good overcame evil in the end! There are a lot of loose ends in Charmed, but that is one of the reasons I love it. They would have been so limited if they did everything 100% by the book.  |
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Mar 10, 2010 11:27:14 GMT -5
There are so many Ultimate powers it is so confusing. First the Charmed Ones were stated to be the most powerful witches in exsistence. The Wyatt came with all his little powers. Then there was the Nexus which granted the user of it immense power. There was also the Hollow which can take in all magic and destroy the world. Lastly there were Billie/Christy. What do you think is the true Ultimate Power? Well I think it is the Charmed ones. Look at how much they have been through! The ones that only really matched them were Billie and Christi, because they couldn't actually defeat them - but good overcame evil in the end! There are a lot of loose ends in Charmed, but that is one of the reasons I love it. They would have been so limited if they did everything 100% by the book. I doubt this very much. In fact the only thing I believe might be the ultimate power is a deity. Having the Charmed Ones as the ultimate power is not only unrealistic - even in fiction - to me, but also boring. |
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Post by forbes on Mar 11, 2010 1:11:01 GMT -5
Actually, rethinking this, our of the things that you listed ljones (Wyatt, Billie/Christi, The Hollow and The Nexus), the only one that really doesn't make sense is Billie/Christi, but in my way of thinking they still are not as powerful as them.. I will explain;
The Charmed Ones were the most powerful good witches ever - which means it would be ok if The Nexus and The Hollow had more power than them, because they were only said to be witches.
Wyatt is only half witch, and half whitelighter. And, at the end of the day.. I think the power of three has more power than he does. I mean, they said he was this great power but we never actually got to see much of it.. there were a few things, but none of which the Charmed ones couldn't have done. I will have to think about this more.
Now, Billi and Christi's "destiny" is really too much like the Charmed Ones'. They are sisters, and are conceived as the ultimate power, but they never actually were when you think about it - Christi died, which was obviously in the cards. I don't know if I am making any sense.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Mar 11, 2010 8:27:42 GMT -5
Well, that's the reason why so many people hated them, because they were two sisters more powerful than The Charmed Ones. But being able to bend reality, that's definitely much more powerful than what The Charmed Ones could do. The Jenkinses were definitely much more powerful than The Charmed Ones, just like the Nexus and the Hollow, which was also most definitely more powerful than The Charmed Ones, even Wyatt and The Source and.... I got so sick of Ultimate Powers.
But thank God we had them. As ljones pointed out, if the series was all about the most powerful beings ever and it was all about them battling. it would've gotten very boring very quickly, Even Superman had his weakness--kryptonite and magic--so The Charmed Ones had it, too--Ultimate Power that was more powerful than them.
As soon as the show became about three demon-hunters who happened to live in the same house rather than three sisters who happen to be witches, the only way to keep the show going was to continue to introduce *another* Ultimate Power.
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Post by ljones on Mar 11, 2010 11:16:45 GMT -5
The series has always been about them being demon hunters from the beginning. That is how the series has described witches . . . as demon hunters.  |
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Post by Esmeralda on Mar 11, 2010 11:34:45 GMT -5
The series has always been about them being demon hunters from the beginning. That is how the series has described witches . . . as demon hunters. Actually not. They only became demon hunters after The Source showed up, when suddenly all of the other different evils were no longer important, just demons who dressed in black and could shimmer and throw energy balls. I preferred the warlocks and the Demons of Thisorthat and the other evils. And that's how they described The Charmed Ones - the protectors of the innocent - not your garden-variety witch. |
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Post by SEERofCHAOS on Mar 11, 2010 16:12:01 GMT -5
One of my biggest complaints of the later seasons. I missed all the fun demons from the earlier seasons with different types of powers. It's as if the writers forgot the show had demons in it and threw random fireball throwing guys at the last minute.
I also wished the demons were like in Buffy where they where big ugly monsters. I don't know why they didn't do that.
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Post by ljones on Mar 12, 2010 23:50:41 GMT -5
No. They were killing demons as far back as Season One.
Their so-called title as "protectors of the innocent" makes them demon hunters. Period.
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Post by forbes on Mar 13, 2010 2:06:48 GMT -5
No. They were killing demons as far back as Season One. Their so-called title as "protectors of the innocent" makes them demon hunters. Period. I think what they are trying to say is that in the earlier seasons they never hunted demons, as in, went looking for demons and killing them. In seasons 1-3 (for the most part) the demons would come to them, and if they didn`t come to them their first thought would be to get to the innocent first. I don`t mean to speak for anyone, that is just my understanding of what they said - please tell me if I am wrong  |
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Post by ljones on Mar 13, 2010 4:59:37 GMT -5
Sometimes they hunted after supernatural evil whenever Phoebe has one of her "premonitions" or when Leo press-ganged them into hunting their prey. And this also happened in Seasons 1-3.
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Post by SEERofCHAOS on Mar 13, 2010 12:49:07 GMT -5
Sometimes they hunted after supernatural evil whenever Phoebe has one of her "premonitions" or when Leo press-ganged them into hunting their prey. And this also happened in Seasons 1-3. Like when Leo lured the one demon to P3 so the Charmed Ones could kill it. |
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Post by pixiesunbelle on Sept 4, 2010 21:48:11 GMT -5
The later season became more about protecting Wyatt than anything. The show really shifted away from protecting innocents and to protecting Wyatt.
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Post by Lexi on Nov 1, 2010 13:09:41 GMT -5
Actually, "protectors of the innocent" are completely different from "demon-hunters".
To be a "demon-hunter" they would have to constantly be going in search for the demons to just rid the world of them, which is what happened in later seasons. In the early seasons they didn't just go after a demon because they wanted to, they went after a demon to save an innocent - either the innocent came to them or they came across an innocent, that would make them "protectors of the innocent". From season 5 onwards there were never really any innocents for them to protect, which would make them "demon-hunters"
Now Billie was a "demon hunter", she went after demons for the fun of things rather than to save an innocent that was in danger.
A hunter and a protect are two completely different things. If you look at is as a fox hunter vs. a protector of chickens - a fox hunter would kill a fox for the fun of killing the fox whereas a protect of chickens would kill the fox just to stop it from attacking the chickens but they wouldn't go out of their way to find a fox to kill.
Now back to the Ultimate Power - The Hollow and The Nexus both made a lot of sense. The Charmed Ones were stated that they wer the most powerful witches ever. The Hollow and The Nexus were never witches. In fact, I say The Nexus but it was probably The Shadow that was the power there, The Nexus was just the five points and wasn't anything solid...
Now, The Twice Blessed...he was ok being an "ultimate power" because he was one witch. He was stronger than his mother and aunts when they were on their own, but he was not stronger than The Charmed Ones. I can't stand fanfics that have Wyatt stronger than The Charmed Ones since even half witch Wyatt is still a witch and therefore should not be stronger than The Charmed Ones.
Billie and Christy were the end of it for me! I'm so glad it was the last season with the way it was handled! There is no way two witches could be stronger than The Charmed Ones. Now helping two misguided witches who happened to be strong (just not as strong as The Charmed Ones) then fair enough that I could have dealt with but what they had...not at all!
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Post by erikamarie on Nov 9, 2010 5:35:50 GMT -5
and if Billie and Christy were the Ultimate Power in the sense of the final power?
In another board they were talking of it
the Triad wanted to destroy the Charmed One and they were willing to use even the Hollow to do it
If I remember well the Angel of destiny and then the Elder talked only of a big battle a terrible danger, the demons who kidnapped Christy talked first of the ultimate power then the Triad who spoke of the two sisters as the result of a plan born fifteen years before
In Kill Billie vol II the Tiad accused Dumain of having overestimated the two sisters and told that Billie and Christy needed charmed like powers to summon the Hollow so the Triad didn't think they were more powerful than the Charmed One
the Triad talked of the ultimate battle the one which will destroy all the witches including Billie and Christy so maybe that Ultimate really means Final
I hope I was able to explain my English is often confusing
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Post by ljones on Nov 9, 2010 14:05:27 GMT -5
I think you're splitting hairs. It doesn't matter for what reason they went after demons, they went after them . . . period. As far as I'm concerned, they were demon or warlock or any other supernatural evil hunters from Day One.
And I eventually found this portrayal of witches as merely demon or supernatural hunters rather one-dimensional.
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Lexi
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Post by Lexi on Nov 11, 2010 9:13:52 GMT -5
Well, let's just agree to disagree on this one. |
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Post by SEERofCHAOS on Nov 12, 2010 21:59:38 GMT -5
There are some truthes to both of them. They went demon-hunting in particular (for the first seasons atleast) to protect an innocent. Not always though, as a lot of the times the demons came to them.
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Post by Esmeralda on Nov 16, 2010 19:21:46 GMT -5
But not half-as-often as happened to the second set. In most cases, especially during the first two seasons the first set ran into the bad guy (after Cole was introduced, the bad guy more than likely became a black-clad demon who could shimmer or blink and throw fireballs or energyballs *yawn*- before Cole's introduction, it could've been just about anything supernatural, while a demon was always The Demon of *whatever*) while trying to protect an innocent, usually seen in Phoebe's premonition. That very seldom happened with the second set - then it was usually Phoebe seeing the demons going after them.
You can tell that the first couple of seasons had a woman as an executive producer - as with most women, relationships were the most important part of the show. The rest of the seasons had a man as an executive producer - as with most men, confrontations and who was the most powerful was the most important part of the show. That's why I call the second set of sisters demon-hunters who happen to be related, while I call the first set sisters who happen to be witches.
Note I said MOST. As in all things, there are exceptions. But a "chick flick" is usually about relationships; an "action movie" is all about who is the most powerful and who can conquer the bad guys - sound familiar??!! In most cases a "chick flick" considers women as their target audience, while in most cases an "action movie" considers men as their target audience.
Season Three truly had the best blend of both action and relationships, and one of many reasons why when Shax said, "The end", I wish that it was, and I have a hunch I would've felt that way even if none of the original sisters had died. You can tell that although Brad Kern was the executive producer, the episodes were based on Connie Burge's original storyline. The two seasons before Season Three (Connie's seasons) bored some people with the "innocent of the week" format while those who liked it, liked the relationship between the sisters and how that affected saving the innocent. Those who did like that (like me) disliked the constant battle of the demons vs the demon-hunters of Brad Kern's seasons, something that constantly required a greater and greater Ultimate Power, which those who found the first couple of seasons boring enjoyed.
Now had they continued to let the sisters be good while letting the demons be bad, I probably would've enjoyed the last set as much as the first set. One-dimensional? Yes, but that's what most supernatural shows are like, showing Good vs Evil. Yes, I'm a woman, but I happened to love that genre. Think Superman, Batman, Spiderman, Wonder Woman, Lex Luthor, Brainiac, etc. I LOVE cheering for the first four and LOVE hating the last two! Are any of them multi-dimenstional? Of course not! When the superhero gets mixed up with the supervillain, that's when people stop cheering for the good guy to win against the bad guys, because the good guys are just as bad as the bad guys and the bad guys are just as good as the good guys, like what happened in S6-8. I know I couldn't cheer for the sisters once they had forgotten that the wrong thing done for the right reason is still wrong which happened when they stole Darryl's soul without his permission, when they murdered Rick and when they did the ultra-evil thing of taking in the Hollow so they could murder the Jenkinses.
Realistic? True-to-life? Of course not. But neither are superheroes or supervillains, which is what this genre is all about, especially once Kern took over - why their villains are called demons. It's why the genre is called fantasy. If you like multi-dimensional characters you're better off watching a drama, not a supernatural fantasy which is done for one reason only - to let the audience totally forget about what's going on in their own real life for an hour each week. And that's why I loved the first three seasons and the first set of sisters so much.
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Post by ljones on Nov 18, 2010 23:56:38 GMT -5
Constance Burge DID NOT want any of the sisters to have a long term romantic relationship. She got rid of Andy by the end of S1 (oops! I mean . . . T.W. King left the show). And she wanted to get rid of Leo, but Holly Marie Combs insisted that the character of Leo remain. Which would explain how he finally became a regular by the end of S2. And even during Burge's reign, the series focused a lot on power and the sisters engaging in constant demon hunting.
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