Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920 
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Post by Esmeralda on Mar 10, 2011 19:29:37 GMT -5
This episode has been a big bone of contention around The Cafe. Perhaps someone would like to take it to court on the "Law and Witch-Order" thread...  That sounds like a *very* good idea... |
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Post by ghostrider on Mar 10, 2011 20:32:54 GMT -5
Thank you for the thumbs up but I hope the first case will be commented on first as I was very excited to make the discovery of Melinda's comment and how it could explain Prue's actions and lack of true personal gain.
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Mar 16, 2011 0:03:00 GMT -5
They were willing to save Piper for the wrong reasons. For selfish reasons. Piper was willing to risk the health of her customers for the sake of the almighty dollar. She didn't know that fruit was harmful. But she knew that it had not been inspected by U.S. Customs . . . and she didn't care.
First Prue and Phoebe, and later Leo, prevented Piper from facing the consequences of her actions. It's okay for supporting actors to face the consequences of their actions, but not the Halliwells and Leo? Regardless of whether those crimes were magical or non-magical? Not in my book.
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Lexi
Familiar
Peek-a-boo...I see you!
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Post by Lexi on Mar 16, 2011 6:57:57 GMT -5
And that was the lesson that they learnt in the episode. THe majority of the early seasons has something that the sisters had to learn from, whether it was their mistakes, the mistakes of other people or whether it was just about magic in general.
One part of that episode that I love is the question "who would you save from a burning building: one sibling or five strangers?" All three chose one sibling at first but by the end of the episode they changed their mind and went for five strangers because they had learnt a very valuble lesson.
I think this may be why I don't make such a big deal about the legal side of things in one of these shows because sometimes the other lessons learnt are a lot bigger.
Piper did have consequences for the illegal fruit, she got very ill and almost died. However she was saved, would you really want someone to die because of their actions? Because if Leo didn't do anything, that is what would have happened; she would have died because of what she did. And Piper learnt her lesson on the illegal fruit anyway, she sent it back and never did it again. Yes, she wasn't persecuted for breaking federal law and yes, she put her customer's lives at risk but she learnt from her mistakes from a very life threatening consequence.
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Jad
Familiar
I was going to go with Liberty Jad, aren't you glad I didn't?
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Post by Jad on Mar 16, 2011 15:41:06 GMT -5
Ultimate Power?
Anybody who uses this kind of terminology is using hyperbole. It is the only way to logically undestand the term.
The Four Horseman episode taught nothing but delusion. It was bad philosophy at best. The central question, 'save one sibling or five strangers', is only answerable in the moment when you really have the choice and in context. Speculative answers are at best meaningless and at worse delusional. Then, the equation of the sacrifice one sibling to save the world to the save one sibling or five strangers. One question is trite when compared to the other.
The Funny thing about Charmed is that these flawed and unfixably flawed women are the Ultimate Power of good. Piper, who on the surface is tough and strong, is just that same girl who is so unsure of herself, Miss Whinesalot. Phoebe, the urbane understanding of human relations, is Freebie. Paige, educated and sophisticated, is the ultimate ditzy valley girl.
The beauty of Charmed is that these wonderfully flawed characters who are always screwing the pooch end up saving the world. They are heroes inspite of themselves, despite all the wrong choices they make.
Brad got this right, being an adult doesn't mean that you've overcome your flaws, it only means that you've become better and better at covering them up.....
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Mar 16, 2011 21:22:09 GMT -5
Ultimate Power? Anybody who uses this kind of terminology is using hyperbole. It is the only way to logically undestand the term. The Four Horseman episode taught nothing but delusion. It was bad philosophy at best. The central question, 'save one sibling or five strangers', is only answerable in the moment when you really have the choice and in context. Speculative answers are at best meaningless and at worse delusional. Then, the equation of the sacrifice one sibling to save the world to the save one sibling or five strangers. One question is trite when compared to the other. The Funny thing about Charmed is that these flawed and unfixably flawed women are the Ultimate Power of good. Piper, who on the surface is tough and strong, is just that same girl who is so unsure of herself, Miss Whinesalot. Phoebe, the urbane understanding of human relations, is Freebie. Paige, educated and sophisticated, is the ultimate ditzy valley girl. The beauty of Charmed is that these wonderfully flawed characters who are always screwing the pooch end up saving the world. They are heroes inspite of themselves, despite all the wrong choices they make. Brad got this right, being an adult doesn't mean that you've overcome your flaws, it only means that you've become better and better at covering them up..... A very, very *very* interesting way of looking at Charmed, Jad. For that you have been blessed! |
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Mar 18, 2011 11:38:03 GMT -5
The problems with this . . . at least for me . . . are that I don't view the Charmed Ones as the "Ultimate Power" - good or bad. I mean . . . come on. Not even the Power of Three can vanquish the Source. It took the three of them and the spirits of Warren witches stretching back three hundred years to vanquish him. How on earth can the Halliwells be considered the "Ultimate Power"?
And while the show seemed willing to acknowledge the sisters' basic or minor flaws; it failed to acknowledge some of their worst failings and crimes. How can I acknowledge the complex nature of their characters, when the writers refused to acknowledge the monstrous sides of them?
As much as I like "CHARMED" and "BUFFY", I've always had a problem with both series depicting most of the regular supernatural characters as "the most feared", "the best" or "the most powerful". The writers tend to get carried away with these characters by dumping such descriptions upon them.
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Post by SEERofCHAOS on Mar 19, 2011 12:02:07 GMT -5
You going to have to make them threatening somehow.  I am surprised the Avatars haven't showed up in this thread yet. Together as a collective they had the power to change the entire world. The only known way to defeat them is with some potion that is in limited supply. |
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Mar 20, 2011 9:57:11 GMT -5
You going to have to make them threatening somehow. That's what happens when you forget about the relationships between the characters and have to concentrate on the battles - since they could get rid of the last one, you have to make the next one seem worst. That was boring once the Source was vanquished. I think they were lying. If they were *that* powerful, they didn't need the Charmed Ones to help them do their dirty duty. |
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Post by SEERofCHAOS on Mar 20, 2011 11:38:02 GMT -5
This is true. I also wonder why beings from outside time and space would bother with the people of Earth. What makes us so important they want to change our world? Are they just bored?
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Mar 20, 2011 13:36:17 GMT -5
This is true. I also wonder why beings from outside time and space would bother with the people of Earth. What makes us so important they want to change our world? Are they just bored? Hehehehe! I think you're absolutely right about that! |
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Reality Bites
Familiar
When witches don't fight we burn.
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Post by Reality Bites on Mar 20, 2011 19:14:08 GMT -5
This is true. I also wonder why beings from outside time and space would bother with the people of Earth. What makes us so important they want to change our world? Are they just bored? It would make since of The Avatars originated on Earth. Then it'd become a matter of elevated beings interested in the "purification" (  ) of their home world. |
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Post by SEERofCHAOS on Mar 21, 2011 15:16:02 GMT -5
This is true. I also wonder why beings from outside time and space would bother with the people of Earth. What makes us so important they want to change our world? Are they just bored? It would make since of The Avatars originated on Earth. Then it'd become a matter of elevated beings interested in the "purification" ( ) of their home world. This, also might be true. Now I am curious to discuss the origins of the Avatars. |
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Mar 22, 2011 14:44:18 GMT -5
It could be that many of the Avatars were originally humans. Like the whitelighters.
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Post by SEERofCHAOS on Mar 22, 2011 21:43:53 GMT -5
I wonder though, how they obtained a vast amount of powers though.
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Reality Bites
Familiar
When witches don't fight we burn.
Posts: 452
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Post by Reality Bites on Mar 22, 2011 23:06:36 GMT -5
Since there aren't that many Avatars, perhaps they were humans who had their own special prophecies throughout the history of the world, much like the Charmed Ones. I'm pretty sure there had been beings just as powerful as the Charmed Ones or Twice Blessed One in the past who Powerful ascended to a higher state of being. *shrugs*
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Jad
Familiar
I was going to go with Liberty Jad, aren't you glad I didn't?
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Post by Jad on Mar 23, 2011 1:46:57 GMT -5
IMHO, the Avatars or at least the alpha was a more ancient being more on the level of the angels of death and destiny.
The alpha went around through time recruiting other powerful magical beings to his cause.
The origins of the Avatars like the origins of most things on Charmed were never well defined. Where did all the demons come from? Was there some kind of bottomless pit that was full of them?
It was shown on the show that humans could become demons and that warlocks were witches gone bad, but does that account for all demons.
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Apr 4, 2011 13:26:59 GMT -5
They didn't always wait for an innocent to be involved . . . even in the early years. Sometimes, they went after a demon or warlock simply because they were aware of the latter's presence.
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on May 18, 2011 23:23:45 GMT -5
I agree with you In another board - Destined- some members were saying things like these, that Billie and Christy had more offensive power of Phoebe and even Paige but they weren't powerful as the Charmed One Billie was the key because she was able to do what generation of demons had only dreamed of, to gain easy access to the Book of Shadows to the knowledge and the spells of Warren dinasty Billie was the key because she got the most powerful weapon, the confidence of the sisters and Wyatt A wonderful plan the sisters spent time teaching Billie the way to destroy them and if this were not enough, here is the ultimate weapon ready, Wyatt willing to help auntie Billie to evoke the Hollow! Was looking for something else and found this, which I totally missed before. What a fantastic way of explaining Billie and Christy as "the Ultimate Power"! For this, Erikamarie, you have been blessed! |
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Post by Chrisaholic on May 20, 2011 10:36:06 GMT -5
I'm getting a headache by just reading and re-calling it. I mean what a way to take the Charmed Ones out. To be honest, I never understood why there was an "Ultimate Power" all of a sudden when all we have known that the Charmed Ones are the most powerful witches on Earth.
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) of their home world.
