Twice Blessed

[StoryGirl83]

I am trying to understand why it is that everyone thinks that the Wyatt is supposed to be so powerful. I'll agree he has some rather large and diverse powers, but I am I missing something? As far as I can find this is all the prophesy says:

"When three planets burn as one over a sky of dancing light, and magic will rest for a holy day to welcome a twice blessed child."

I mean it doesn't even say the twice blessed child, just a. And while it's kind of odd that magic stopped, that doesn't really mean he's powerful, just that magic respected his birth or something. Whose to say that magic didn't stop on other days. We know that it didn't stop for Melinda Warren's birth, but maybe magic stopped for one or more of the Charmed Ones.

Does anyone have any opinion on this as to why it's assumed that just because Wyatt has diverse powers and magic stopped that he's supposed to be super powerful. I think those powers could be just as much of a downfall as anything else.

And does anyone know of anything else from the show that says that Wyatt being twice blessed means he's a super powerful witch. Maybe it means he's supposed to be a peace bringer or something and Gideon messed up that destiny in Chris' original time line. (Though it still upsets me what they did to elders in general and that one in particular.)

[Assassin Witch]

As great of a question this is, the answer is..THE WRITERS SAID SO. It's one of those..we can't really answer any other way.

Except in Sword in the City in S6, he's supposed to be King of Magic. I don't remember it clearly. Except that Piper was the one to pull the sword from the stone..for Wyatt? And that's, again, the writers stating Wyatt is all powerful.

[StoryGirl83]

May 8, 2010 21:55:55 GMT -5 Assassin Witch said:

As great of a question this is, the answer is..THE WRITERS SAID SO. It's one of those..we can't really answer any other way.

Except in Sword in the City in S6, he's supposed to be King of Magic. I don't remember it clearly. Except that Piper was the one to pull the sword from the stone..for Wyatt? And that's, again, the writers stating Wyatt is all powerful.

Okay, then where do the writters say so? In the "Sword and the City" here is what I found.

Leo: Because only the ultimate power on earth can handle Excalibur. That's why the Lady stayed in the lake to insulate herself from the power of the sword.

Considering the world we are dealing with, the ultimate power on earth (and yes, I'll take Leo literal) is unlikely to need much to be that, assuming we are talking about individual forces and not united forces (such as the Charmed Ones as a unit, and not the individual witches, who were not all that strong seperately). And there are powers in the Underworld and Up There that are not on earth.

In addition:

Phoebe: Still, what does Mordaunt want with Piper? I mean, he's tricky, but he's hardly the ultimate power on earth.

Leo: But he can use Piper to become that power.

This implies to me that it is not a fixed position, though it might be.

And the phrase "king of magic" is no where to be found in that episode. He is the next King Arthur, which is a very different thing. If I recall correctly, Arthur wasn't even magical. That all came from Merlin.

So no, that does not prove that Wyatt is the most powerful, all powerful, or anything like that. It only proves that he is powerful and he has a special sword.

Can anyone give me quotes that support Assassin Witch's statement that the writers said so? I'm not saying Assassin Witch is wrong, only that I would like to see more conclusive proof than this. The quotes I gave may support that idea, or they may not. To my mind, they do not. And besides, Charmed abused the term "ultimate power" a little too much, to the point that it means nothing. After all . . . Wyatt cannot be the ultimate power on earth at the same time that Billie and Christy are the ultimate power, unless we are saying those two sisters are simply the ultimate power everywhere which one would think would supercede to the ultimate power on earth. Or are we saying that Wyatt is not yet the ultimate power on earth?

[Patrick]

I think the Twice Blessed prophecy has always been. But the fact that Piper and Leo had the child was a twist of fate.

If it had been any other child, then this twice blessed child wouldn't be AS NEAR as powerful as Wyatt, but probably the same as an 1/3 Charmed One, I'm guessing.

But the fact that Piper and Leo had the twice blessed child, he ended up being more powerful than anyone imagined being the son of a Charmed One as well as a whitelighter.

Cupid said so himself that Piper and Leo's relationship was their own doing. So I think it's safe to say that Wyatt Matthew Halliwell wasn't on any straight and narrow destiny. By Piper and Leo having this child, it allowed an alternative destiny and the twice blessed prophecy is added in there.


That's my theory.

[erikamarie]

Baby's First Demon
Parasite Demon #2: The witches did this, not me.
Crone: The witches have nothing compared to... This child is powerful beyond your understanding. What I have foreseen, is not to be ignored.
Parasite Demon #2: What? What did you see? What is he?
Crone: He is our end. We'll have nothing more to do with this... being.
Parasite Demon #2: That's easy for you to say. You have powers of your own.

(Piper and Phoebe walk in.)

Crone: And I enjoy using them. (She points her fingers at the Parasite Demon and a tunnel of sand surrounds him. He screams out and turns to dust. Crone turns to Piper and Phoebe.) Your sister's powers have been restored.
Phoebe: Who are you?
Crone: I represent those in power. Rest assured a law will be passed forbidding any further attempts on your child.
Piper: Why? What do you stand to gain?
Crone: Nothing. You have proven that the costs of a war will far outweigh the benefits. Consider this our white flag. (She hands them the baby blanket.) Now I suggest you rest well and preserve your energies. From what I've foreseen you're going to need them
Crone wasn't the first to speak of Wyatt's powers and future,there was also even an Elder

Witches In Tights
Leo: Will, uh, will our baby be healthy?
Ramus: Yes, very healthy. And more powerful than you can even imagine.

Sense & Sense Ability

Crone: I had a vision. A mere taste of the future, of the child, of power like we've never known. But I didn't see enough. I need to know more.
Crone places her hand on Wyatt's forehead and a red light shines around her hand.Crone places her hand on Wyatt's forehead and a red light shines around her hand.)
Crone: I've seen everything. Such power. Such power



Certainly his powers are not those of Warren:he has the ability to move objects as Prue and to orb them as Paige, but the other powers I think they had come from the unusual combination of planetary, Piper hasn't the power to incinerate squinting and especially the Power of Three works by spells, Wyatt seems a living Book of Shadows or, as said in another site, he seems more Samantha Stevens son with his power to do magic without spells

I do not know if being the son of Piper and Leo may be of great importance to his powers, probably not, It is important that he was born in a family accustomed to power, able to educate and protect him

I was fascinated by the Charmed sons for this contrast: an older brother with extraordinary powers (with the problems involved, similar to those of children who are too smart), a younger brother with the traditional power of his family and the need to be exceptional in some other way
if they were equal, both powerful or both normal witches, they'ld be an ordinary pair of brothers, nothing new or fascinating

[h3o]

Question. Why is it Wyatt more powerful than Chris? Wasnt Chris conceived when Leo was an Elder, shouldnt that make Chris more power because Elders are more powerful than whitelighters ( which Leo was when Wyatt was conceived)?

[Esmeralda]

Jul 30, 2010 10:32:18 GMT -5 h3o said:

Question. Why is it Wyatt more powerful than Chris? Wasnt Chris conceived when Leo was an Elder, shouldnt that make Chris more power because Elders are more powerful than whitelighters ( which Leo was when Wyatt was conceived)?

During the original future (where Wyatt was evil), Leo was just a whitelighter. That's how Chris saved Wyatt from becoming evil - by turning Leo into an Elder so that he (Chris) could become a half-Elder who could control a half-whitelighter, that's the big difference. Truly, that's the only thing that Chris did differently than what happened the first time around. He should've went back to the future as soon as he did that, or at least as soon as Leo and Piper conceived him in the alley. For him to stick around for an extra nine months - changing the timeline of every single person he runs into during those nine months - makes absolutely no sense at all.

Where Chris blew it is he should've told Leo what was about to happen and have Leo turn into an Elder to release the powers of the gods as soon as he showed up. Had he been able to prevent the Elders from being massacred by the Titans, we wouldn't have been stuck with those pseudo-Elders of S6-8 who were more demonic than the demons - all who were similar to Leo - whitelighters who were elevated to Elders long before their time and whose powers went to their heads - just like Wyatt's. Despite being Leo's mentor, I don't think Gideon became an Elder until after the massacre.

[h3o]

I still dont get why that makes Wyatt more powerful. If Chris is Half elder half witch doesnt that make him more powerful than Wyatt? Also Elders can control whitelighters and Wyatt being half whitelighter shouldnt that mean Chris (being half elder) be able to control Wyatt in some way?

[Esmeralda]

Wyatt is more powerful because he was born on a special day. That's what makes him Twice Blessed and so powerful - more than Chris. Even if Chris was a full Elder, he could never be more powerful than Wyatt, but as a half-Elder, he would be able to control him, which is how he saved his brother - making his father an Elder so he could be Twice-Blessed. As soon as his parents conceived him in the alley, he should've gotten his ultra-skinny a$$ back to the future where it belonged.

[SEERofCHAOS]

Elder's is not a seperate species from Whitelighters. It is just a position with higher power, so Chris is still only half-whitelighter, there is no such thing as a half-Elder.

I always wondered though, who chose the first ever Elders? Where do their powers come from? I wish they addressed that in the show.

Except in Sword in the City in S6, he's supposed to be King of Magic. I don't remember it clearly. Except that Piper was the one to pull the sword from the stone..for Wyatt? And that's, again, the writers stating Wyatt is all powerful.

Hooray for Magical items that serve no other purpose outside their episode!!

[Lexi]

Aug 18, 2010 13:27:05 GMT -5 SEERofCHAOS said:

Elder's is not a seperate species from Whitelighters. It is just a position with higher power, so Chris is still only half-whitelighter, there is no such thing as a half-Elder.

I always wondered though, who chose the first ever Elders? Where do their powers come from? I wish they addressed that in the show.

But an Elder didn't have to be a whitelighter so they're not really a higher powered version of a whitelighter. That's just going off from what was said in, was it the superhero episode where the boy became an Elder? I can't really remember off the top of my head. So for that to be possible, there would have to be such a thing as a half-Elder since if those who weren't previously a whitelighter had kids then they wouldn't be half-whitelighters

[StoryGirl83]

Hi, Lexi!!! *Waves*

Aug 19, 2010 9:23:39 GMT -5 Lexi said:

Aug 18, 2010 13:27:05 GMT -5 SEERofCHAOS said:

Elder's is not a seperate species from Whitelighters. It is just a position with higher power, so Chris is still only half-whitelighter, there is no such thing as a half-Elder.

I always wondered though, who chose the first ever Elders? Where do their powers come from? I wish they addressed that in the show.

But an Elder didn't have to be a whitelighter so they're not really a higher powered version of a whitelighter. That's just going off from what was said in, was it the superhero episode where the boy became an Elder? I can't really remember off the top of my head. So for that to be possible, there would have to be such a thing as a half-Elder since if those who weren't previously a whitelighter had kids then they wouldn't be half-whitelighters

You're right about that. Kevin in "Witches In Tights" was a witch who became an elder when an elder "retired" (and was vanquished, but he was already giving up his powers). Going on that episode Elders don't really have offensive powers (which would imply their leadership is more intelectual), but going on later episodes, they do (invisibility, "elder bolts", orbing, and healing being the only I recall), so I'm guessing "retiring" elders don't have access to their powers.

The fact that Kevin was never a whitelighter, implies many things. You don't have to die to be an elder. You don't actually have to have a lot of experience to be an elder. Apparently you can learn as you go. It kind of goes in the face of the fanon that witches can't be whitelighters, even though Kevin wasn't actually a whitelighter.

In addition the fact that elders have powers never shown by whitelighters, also implies either more power or different power. Of course that doesn't mean whitelighters don't have those powers, the same as it doesn't mean that elders don't have all those powers whitelighters showed that elders never did, but it makes it kind of likely.

And the fact that a demon could get the elder powers even for a short while makes all sorts of questionable possiblities, like . . . if a demon really wanted to . . . could they be an elder. And the fact that he wanted the elder's power rather than the easier to get whitelighter power, implies that there is something there.

Kevin got the elder powers by his close proximity to the demon after the demon was vanquished. The Charmed Ones were nearby at the time (and I think maybe Leo was, too, but I'd have to check that). Apparently the powers did pick him in a sense. It sort of implies that Leo got his elder powers because he was up in "Elderland" while powers still lingered from the dead elders. This brings up an interest question in my mind . . . did the Titans get elder powers . . . and did Chris? Because by that logic, they both should have.

*Off my bizarre logic train*

[SEERofCHAOS]

Aug 19, 2010 9:23:39 GMT -5 Lexi said:

Aug 18, 2010 13:27:05 GMT -5 SEERofCHAOS said:

Elder's is not a seperate species from Whitelighters. It is just a position with higher power, so Chris is still only half-whitelighter, there is no such thing as a half-Elder.

I always wondered though, who chose the first ever Elders? Where do their powers come from? I wish they addressed that in the show.

But an Elder didn't have to be a whitelighter so they're not really a higher powered version of a whitelighter. That's just going off from what was said in, was it the superhero episode where the boy became an Elder? I can't really remember off the top of my head. So for that to be possible, there would have to be such a thing as a half-Elder since if those who weren't previously a whitelighter had kids then they wouldn't be half-whitelighters

But if Elder powers are able to be given out that would mean it isn't a species but a position. So you are trying to tell me he went from the species human to Elder?

The reason Chris didn't get it was because white-lighter was a species. When certain people die the Elders take their soul and convert them to white-lighters which are different from humans. If Elder powers are given out to witches, whitelighters, and who knows what else wouldn't it make more sense to be a position.

[Esmeralda]

Aug 19, 2010 12:47:54 GMT -5 SEERofCHAOS said:

Aug 19, 2010 9:23:39 GMT -5 Lexi said:

But an Elder didn't have to be a whitelighter so they're not really a higher powered version of a whitelighter. That's just going off from what was said in, was it the superhero episode where the boy became an Elder? I can't really remember off the top of my head. So for that to be possible, there would have to be such a thing as a half-Elder since if those who weren't previously a whitelighter had kids then they wouldn't be half-whitelighters

But if Elder powers are able to be given out that would mean it isn't a species but a position. So you are trying to tell me he went from the species human to Elder?

The reason Chris didn't get it was because white-lighter was a species. When certain people die the Elders take their soul and convert them to white-lighters which are different from humans. If Elder powers are given out to witches, whitelighters, and who knows what else wouldn't it make more sense to be a position.

But Paige proved that whitelighter powers ARE inheritable. Personally I think it's the hugest bunch of crap that the show ever came up with - DEAD men should NOT be able to sire children and even if they can, they should NOT be able to pass down powers that were GIVEN to them, not ones they inherited - I sincerely believe that had Burge stuck around and Melinda was born, she would've had a power, but it wouldn't have been whitelighter powers - but that's what is canon.

So therefore, following this crappy canon, if powers that are given to you are inheritable and if Kevin could be given the powers to become an Elder, and if Leo was a mortal who first became a whitelighter and then became an Elder (and both Brody and Mikelle were humans who became whitelighters), and if a whitelighter (Sam) could give his whitelighter powers to his daughter, then if Leo had been given the Elder powers, his child conceived while he was an Elder should be half-Elder and have Elder powers.

Due to this, I don't think whitelighters and Elders are a different species - I think they are dead humans who have been given certain powers. It's simple genetics. If they were different species, they might be able to reproduce, but their offspring wouldn't be able to. If whitelighters are a different species than humans then a witchlighter could never have kids, and Paige had three.

[SEERofCHAOS]

But Kevin wasn't dead and he got Elder powers. I don't think Elder powers are inheritable, just whitelighter powers. That is why Chris didn't get the power upgrades that came with being an Elder.

[Esmeralda]

On this one, I think we'll agree to disagree. Now remember. I am NOT saying that S6 Chris should have had Elder powers - he'd have whichever powers he came to the past with - I'm talking about BABY Chris, the one Piper was carrying, since Charmed has proven that what happens to a younger version doesn't affect the older version.

The only reason Baby Chris was never shown with those powers is because that was all part of making us feel sorry for Chris so we wouldn't hate him for all the horrible things he did while he was in the past. Of course, for me, that worked as well as trying to make me hate Cole and love Phoebe by turning Cole into a stalker!

[SEERofCHAOS]

^True, I forgot about that. But wouldn't that mean future Chris would be different later in S6. Nevermind I am not even going to try and think about that one.

So maybe that means baby Chris's powers would be on-par or atleast close to the powers of Wyatt. Poor Melinda...

[Lexi]

Did Baby Chris show Elder powers though? In S8, baby Chris brought Wyatt back to Grandpa's when Wyatt had gone to "help" Billie and Christy. Technically it was summoning, wasn't it? An Elder power.

So, no, S6 Chris wouldn't have had Elder powers since he *was* half-whitelighter but baby Chris should have been half-Elder and therefore been close Wyatt in the power department.

[SEERofCHAOS]

I still don't like the term Half-Elder. I perfer Half-Whitelighter with stronger Elder powers.

[Esmeralda]

*shrug* Just semantics. I prefer witch with whitelighter powers over half-witch or witchlighter. But witchlighter seems to be the accepted fanon term.

If S8 Chris called Wyatt to him, that's *definitely* an Elder power. Yup, he's half-Elder, higher, and more powerful than a half-whitelighter, but not more powerful than the Twice Blessed Brat.

As for poor Prudence Melinda, that depends. She might not have as many powers as her brothers or her cousins, but if she's smart in the way she uses spells and potions - since I'm sure her brothers depend on their powers, the way the Charmed Ones depended on theirs once they got so many of them - I'll bet she can save just as many innocents as her brothers.