ljones
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Post by ljones on Mar 15, 2011 1:17:13 GMT -5
Posted by ljones on Today at 11:41amPerhaps LJ your reply derived more from ES's comment than Lexi's. She, I believe, is the one that pointed out that due to their parents inability to have enough common sense to bind their powers in the first place, why on earth should they be expected to make good decisions later when they can't make them now? You by the way are the one who is fighting the hardest to bring reality into the magical world, soooo....there are organizations that do indeed, in this country anyway, remove children from dysfunctional homes....no mystery here.... For me, the best kind of supernatural stories are those that mix reality with magic or the supernatural. That is what made "BUFFY" a success with me. And at least the first three or four seasons of "CHARMED". |
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Post by erikamarie on Mar 15, 2011 5:20:40 GMT -5
I don't like the idea of the sisters having to face the "authority" of the Elders. The Wiccans have a belief that everyone receives some kind of karmic payback for their actions. I like the idea of the Halliwells receiving karmic payback for their actions . . . and learning a lesson from it. As it was portrayed in "Morality Bites". I too Why the Elders'ld have control over the witches? I understood that magic control itself so who use magic in a bad way would suffer unpredictable consequences, even those with good intentions but little capacity in using the magic, see Paige and her big breast How could the Elders remove powers if they are genetically inherited? |
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Mar 15, 2011 5:26:25 GMT -5
I don't like the idea of the sisters having to face the "authority" of the Elders. The Wiccans have a belief that everyone receives some kind of karmic payback for their actions. I like the idea of the Halliwells receiving karmic payback for their actions . . . and learning a lesson from it. As it was portrayed in "Morality Bites". I too Why the Elders'ld have control over the witches? I understood that magic control itself so who use magic in a bad way would suffer unpredictable consequences, even those with good intentions but little capacity in using the magic, see Paige and her big breast How could the Elders remove powers if they are genetically inherited? That's the major problem - the powers should not have been genetically inherited in the first place. If you guys want to stick with the first three seasons, I'm still certain you'd find out that the powers are *not* genetically inherited or otherwise every Warren would've had the same three powers as Melinda Warren and that wasn't true. As soon as you had Paige inheriting orbing powers, the show jumped the shark. Had the powers been given to the witches as is implied in the first three seasons, then, yes, they should've been able to take them away. But again, that's not what this thread is about - if you want to set up a different thread for that, go for it! And it's my fault for changing topics by saying I think all the sisters (and the boys) should be punished by having their powers removed. So let's not worry about the punishment. Let's just worry about guilty or not guilty. Was taking Darryl's soul without his permission so they could save Leo from Valhalla a misuse of magic? How 'bout Chris murdering the Valkyrie so he could get into Valhalla? Kern made it seem like it was okay - that ends justify the means. I don't think so. It's when I started hating Chris and the sisters and nothing happened to change my mind, which is why I count S6 as my least-favorite season, the way Piper not being punished for buying illegal fruit seems to be why ljones can't stand S2. So? What say you? |
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Post by erikamarie on Mar 16, 2011 7:48:23 GMT -5
I say that I had fun watching Valhalley of the Dolls
I like Chris charcters not because the actor- actually I never saw other series with him as some fans- but because of his ambiguity
When I watch TV I try to relax not to spend time controlling every details but if you wish...okay so the Valkyrie
First: what kind of Valkyrie are they? The nine Wotan daughters? Or the godnesses who chose the most heroic of the fallen warriors to use them during Ragnarock Battle? None of them
The idea of war between good and evil is far from the task of the traditional valkyries so I think they'ld be the spirits of the war sometimes named valkyries who train the warriors: you can't kill them but you can force the spirit to walk thought the shadow lands to return to her sisters
If the Valkyrie was one of them she wasn't killed and she wasn't able to kill the policeman- Chris calls an ambulance so there was hope for him
Second: has the sister the right to steal Darryll soul?
No, of course. Is so gross in a dangerous moment to drag a friend into a situation that you're sure he will be safe? It's not a major tragedy for me
And Piper's fruit:would you sent a person to a firing squad for buying fruit and avoid the customs? Every Saturday a lot of people of my valley take a train cross the border and go to grocery shopping to the Italian market to avoid paying customs duties. If the police customs discovers them, they pay the difference they'll not be executed
It is more serious if you don't clean up the dog business, you pay a fine of more than 1000 $
and if we want to be pedantic: Arroyo fever is linked to a virus which is in association with rodents - has Piper eaten a mouse?- not flies and that fruit Kewano is from cucumber family rich in vitamin c and fiber
I agree with Piper
Phoebe: Wait, you smuggled it in?
Piper: Oh, it’s fruit, Phoebe, not drugs
Don't kill me Es!!!
Wish me luck, I'll spend three days to measure a manor, no one will execute me if I make mistakes but I am worried
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Lexi
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Post by Lexi on Mar 16, 2011 8:16:01 GMT -5
Chris was guilty for killing the Valkyrie. If the Valkyrie had attacked him and it was self-defence then fair enough, but he only did it to get into Valhalla.
Phoebe and Paige were guilty for stealing Darryl's soul but not Piper. At that time, Piper had no memory of who she was. Darryl had explicitly said no but Phoebe and Paige ignored him anyway and did not even say sorry or even thank you after he finally helped them. Piper can't be guilty of that, but she can be guilty of not smoothing things out with Darryl afterwards and telling her sisters that what they did was wrong. It is the same with Leo, he never told Phoebe and Paige that what they did was wrong either and he should have done.
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Jad
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Post by Jad on Mar 16, 2011 22:03:08 GMT -5
After Oh My Goddess, I can't believe they made those episodes. The sisters were beyond the power of the Elders, by the end of season six, they were beyond even the power of the tribunal of the cleaners.
They did suffer consequences as one of the Elders turned against them and they destroyed their friendship with Darryl for good. All of season seven they were a step behind Zankou because of not having Phoebe's premonitions.
The girls moved to a moral level beyond the kin of normal human beings. They were beyond the carrot and the stick. They had to choose to do the right thing without any fear of making the wrong one. By the seventh season they were beyond being given consequences by anybody save the angels. But, they never used their power to dominate others. For the last three seasons, you had a lot of powerful good creatures afraid of what the Charmed Ones were going to do with all their power.
It is more important what you don't do with power than what you do with it. They all failed in many small ways, mostly trivial, but they avoided making the big mistake.
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Mar 17, 2011 0:52:29 GMT -5
After Oh My Goddess, I can't believe they made those episodes. The sisters were beyond the power of the Elders, by the end of season six, they were beyond even the power of the tribunal of the cleaners. They did suffer consequences as one of the Elders turned against them and they destroyed their friendship with Darryl for good. All of season seven they were a step behind Zankou because of not having Phoebe's premonitions. The girls moved to a moral level beyond the kin of normal human beings. They were beyond the carrot and the stick. They had to choose to do the right thing without any fear of making the wrong one. By the seventh season they were beyond being given consequences by anybody save the angels. But, they never used their power to dominate others. For the last three seasons, you had a lot of powerful good creatures afraid of what the Charmed Ones were going to do with all their power. It is more important what you don't do with power than what you do with it. They all failed in many small ways, mostly trivial, but they avoided making the big mistake. They made a big mistake in Season 7's "Extreme Makeover" when they helped the Avatars cast a spell over humanity and transformed most of the latter into Stepford Wives. By helping the Avatars, the Halliwells inflicted their will upon innocents without the latter's consent. And they never realized that was one of their mistakes. Another one of their big mistakes was stealing Darryl Morris' soul in the Season 6 premiere. At least for Phoebe and Paige. At least four descendants of Melinda Warren had her telekinesis - Brianna Warren, Penelope Gordon, Prue Halliwell and Chris Halliwell. The idea that guardian angels gave witches their powers, instead of the latter inheriting them or receiving them from a deity figure like God does not make any sense to me. And your argument seems to contradict the Season 2 episode, "Astral Monkey" in which Dr. Curtis Williamson was accidentally injected with the Halliwells' blood and found himself with their psi abilities. |
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Jad
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I was going to go with Liberty Jad, aren't you glad I didn't?
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Post by Jad on Mar 17, 2011 16:04:29 GMT -5
The Avatars were a big mistake...
First, they didn't realize what they were doing entailed. They didn't do their due diligence.
Second, the Avatars did everything in their power to fool the Charmed Ones, so the Avatars bear some of the blame for fooling the Charmed Ones.
Once they realized what the Avatars did, they rectified it.
The Avatars are a study in real evil, and they were the most evil of any group that the Charmed Ones met.
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Mar 18, 2011 11:54:32 GMT -5
The Avatars were a big mistake... First, they didn't realize what they were doing entailed. They didn't do their due diligence. Second, the Avatars did everything in their power to fool the Charmed Ones, so the Avatars bear some of the blame for fooling the Charmed Ones. Once they realized what the Avatars did, they rectified it. The Avatars are a study in real evil, and they were the most evil of any group that the Charmed Ones met. It sounds as if you want to place ALL OF THE BLAME upon the Avatars. Sorry, that doesn't work with me. The Avatars are guilty of trying to manipulate the Halliwells. But Brody tried to warn them about the Avatars' plans for an "extreme makeover". In the end, they refused to listen, due to their own selfish desires to find a way to end their lives as demon hunters and their arrogant belief that they had the right to change the nature of humanity in general without anyone's consent. You're trying to justify the psychic rape of a friend on the grounds that his lifeless body, dumped in some alley, would be safe?  Are you kidding me? Then those people that you know are committing a Federal crime. If they are willing to risk their health for the sake of saving a few bucks . . . fine. Piper was willing to risk the health of her customers with South American fruit that had not been inspected, because she wanted to save money. I realize that Piper had no idea that the fruit was unsafe. But she knew that it had not been inspected by U.S. Customs. But she didn't care, because she was greedy. Piper's ignorance does not excuse her actions. Not in this situation and not by me. I'm sorry, but she should have paid the consequences of her actions, whether through her death or being prosecuted by the Federal courts. It's happening all over again. Some of you guys are moving heaven and earth to make excuses for the Halliwells, because they are the main heroines of the series. If a supporting character had committed some of their actions or crimes, some of you would be criticizing or condemning those characters. That's television or movies for you. When it comes to the actions of major characters labeled as "the good guys", the fans tend to prove just how hypocritical they can be. They're mortals. As far as I'm concerned, the Halliwells HAVE NOT moved beyond the moral level of other mortals. I'm sorry to be insulting, but I find your reasoning to be a load of crap and the biggest case of hypocrisy I have ever come across. Sometimes I believe there is nothing like a reaction to fictional characters to prove just as lacking most human beings are when it comes to morality. What was the point of starting this thread, when many of you are simply creating excuses for some of the Halliwells' worst crimes and mistakes? |
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Jad
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I was going to go with Liberty Jad, aren't you glad I didn't?
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Post by Jad on Mar 23, 2011 19:39:10 GMT -5
The Avatars bear some, SOME, of the blame, not any where near half of it. I'm not excusing the sisters from culpability, but the Avatars where world class manipulators with thousands of years of practice. They played perfectly to the sisters desires while shielding them from the true nature of what they were doing.
The avatars were masters of spin and relentless. Season seven was the one that had the most complicated of story arcs from the Avatars to the demon Zankou saving the world from the Avatars, to Zankou coming at the Charmed Ones sideways by isolating them and making them less powerful.
The Charmed Ones really took a beating in season seven as they were almost defeated twice psychologically.
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Dec 14, 2014 1:19:32 GMT -5
Since I have just finished re-watching the first season, there are things I either never noticed before or didn't pay attention to. I did spot something of interest this time around, so I think I will play defense attorney here for Ms. Prue Halliwell regarding her indiscretion at casting the truth spell. Perhaps it was Grams flipping the pages and maneuvering Prue to the spell but it might have been the book itself. My reasoning is due to the very next episode "The Witch is Back". Melinda was marveling at how much the book she began has grown over the years. Melinda tells the girls that sometimes the line will add to it, and sometime the book teaches you. Of course they glean wisdom and knowledge from just reading it, but who is to say it can't do other things on its own? It is a very powerful volume. Now this might be a long shot, but Grams didn't make a full blown entrance until "That '70's Episode", so most of the viewers were not connecting much to her. But with Melinda's comment arriving on the very next installment I have to wonder if Connie was giving us an explanation. If this is the case than I at least find Prue innocent of premeditated personal gain...could work.  She was guilty. I mean . . . c'mon. Why deny it or brush it aside as something "innocent"? I disagree. I don't think the Elders should have had the right to give or take their powers. That little scenario never made any sense to me, considering that the show's original portrayal of whitelighters were as the guardian angels of witches and nothing more. The Halliwells - especially Piper - should have bounded Wyatt and Chris' powers when they were young and too immature to handle such great power. That doesn't mean that the boys should have been denied knowledge of the supernatural world, the way the sisters were. |
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Are you kidding me?