Their most difficult lesson to grasp:

[Elder]

A few years ago, I designed a question that asked what people thought was the toughest thing for the sisters to learn.
Upon further review, I would have to say death or dying is the toughest thing for them and nothing is close.

It's hard for a family to accept death when departed family members show up on occasion (Grams, Patty, Sam...) and guardian angels or elders can heal the wounded to prevent death.

When people come back or when you can't die due to healing, you can't accept it because you feel you shouldn't have to deal with it.

[Kit-the-cat]

My gran has just died and i know what it feels like to have to come to terms with loosing someone so close to you. But if given the chance i would want to keep bringing her back. There is no reason to have to miss someone when you have the power to talk to them when ever you want.

[ljones]

I think that the sisters had two difficult lessons to learn -

1) How to accept the loss of a loved one and let go;

2) And that they can use their abilities to help or protect others, not punish.

I realize that they were supposed to have learned the second in "Morality Bites", but it seemed that by the latter half of the series, they had forgotten that lesson several times.

[marienomad]

So true. They have different advantages over normal people like that they know what happens after you die or at least, they have a better idea of what happened. They can talk to dead relatives (except for Prue) as much as they want and they can defy death because of their connections like with Leo.

It makes me wonder that with all this exposure to death, does this make the girls more apathetic to mortality to others?

[ljones]

marienomad said:

So true. They have different advantages over normal people like that they know what happens after you die or at least, they have a better idea of what happened. They can talk to dead relatives (except for Prue) as much as they want and they can defy death because of their connections like with Leo.

It makes me wonder that with all this exposure to death, does this make the girls more apathetic to mortality to others?

I think that they had simply became victims of their own success. Or perhaps they had fallen into the very traps that Friedrich Nietzsche had spoken of:

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. Is not life a hundred times too short for us to bore ourselves?"

or

"And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you"

[colehellsangel]

elder said:

A few years ago, I designed a question that asked what people thought was the toughest thing for the sisters to learn.
Upon further review, I would have to say death or dying is the toughest thing for them and nothing is close.

It's hard for a family to accept death when departed family members show up on occasion (Grams, Patty, Sam...) and guardian angels or elders can heal the wounded to prevent death.

When people come back or when you can't die due to healing, you can't accept it because you feel you shouldn't have to deal with it.

Exactly why Grams refused to Let Piper see Prue when she did the summoning spell.

"Seeing Prue would mean that she is alive to you and you will never learn to move on."

This is also why Prue's death hit Piper so hard especially because she is the one most used to having loved ones revived for her because she's married to a being with healing powers. Phoebe has lost so many boyfriends(although not to death its still a loss just the same) and Grams and Patty on top of them, so she was hurt in the sense that Prue was yet another of her many losses.

Its a little strange though. When someone dies in a sense they can still be alive to you. I lost my father to an unexpected heart attack on October 5, 2005. Before he died I would never see anything around that he was interested in for the purpose of holiday gifts you know. But shortly after he died, Raiders(football team) and Dragons and things he loved and make me think of him start showing up everywhere. Like someone was trying to give me a message. But I still was well aware that he was gone because I never again got that phone call from him to say that it was time for our weekly lunch date. Phoebe kind of had a moment like that when she saw Prue's sweater that her boyfriend's cat peed on, she remembered Prue blaming Piper and starts crying when she realizes that now Prue will never know it was her fault. Thats when it hit her the hardest that Prue was gone. Also Piper sat in her room once and spotted her necklace with a gold "Prue" pendent. I think it hit her the hardest when her four attempts to magic her back failed.

Prue was their first and only real death since becoming witches and discovering whitelighters and spells to cheat death. So It was very hard to understand Prue's death and their inability to cheat death for the upteenth time. Its definitely hard to accept a death when you are used to having the power to cheat it. So I agree that Death is the hardest lesson for the girls to learn when Prue died more than ever.

[Assassin Witch]

Actually Andy and Dr. Williamson are the first deaths that really hit them and Piper. Andy was a childhood friend and she felt it was her fault for Dr. Williamson. Just wanted to point that out.

[colehellsangel]

musicrpgoddess said:

Actually Andy and Dr. Williamson are the first deaths that really hit them and Piper. Andy was a childhood friend and she felt it was her fault for Dr. Williamson. Just wanted to point that out.

I thought Prue thought it was her fault after all she was closest to Andy although of course everyone was sad to lose him. And yes I will give you Dr. Williamson I forgot about him until the Piper crying to much thread where someone pointed it out. But Prue hit her harder in my opinion because she's family and her best friend. And it effected all of them. For being the first you are technically right although Prue was the hardest.

[vandergraafk]

I don't think it's death or the coming to grips with the inevitability that their lives might be short and that many whom they will come in contact with might not survive that is the most critical lesson for the Charmed Ones to learn. Rather, it is the second comment made by ljones that points us in the appropriate direction. Given the vast powers at their disposal and their ability to mold and shape reality as they please, how do the sisters confine their actions to those which attempt to do no harm and do manage to help innocents and perhaps even improve their lot?

We don't really get a straight answer to the question. Indeed, one might even argue that it was blasted right into the sky during the Ultimate Battle since the principal argument against the Charmed Ones, namely, that they had to be stopped, lest they and their offspring wreak havoc on humanity, was blown to pieces by sisters imbued by the Hollow.

Yet, where are the sisters ever held to account with respect to the Avatar experiment? They allowed their own needs to color the clarity with which they ought to have used to penetrate the Avatar pipedream. Instead, Phoebe's navel needs and Piper's quest for normality blind them to any and all reasonable questions that ought to have been asked of the Avatars. Paige is ignored for it is assumed that she, too, is being guided by her own personal needs, i.e., finding a boyfriend in Kyle. Thus, how could anyone give credence to her dissenting views?

The fact that the sisters undid the damage with the exception of Kyle does not excuse them from the frivolous use of their powers to bring into existence a utopia that they never really had known enough about. Going into utopia with a wing and a prayer makes about as much sense as the fools who thought going into Iraq would make a million flowers bloom. At best, it opened up Pandora's box. The fact that we haven't held these accountable either suggests perhaps a weakness in American culture. We are not very good at holding people accountable.

[ljones]

vandergraafk said:

I don't think it's death or the coming to grips with the inevitability that their lives might be short and that many whom they will come in contact with might not survive that is the most critical lesson for the Charmed Ones to learn. Rather, it is the second comment made by ljones that points us in the appropriate direction. Given the vast powers at their disposal and their ability to mold and shape reality as they please, how do the sisters confine their actions to those which attempt to do no harm and do manage to help innocents and perhaps even improve their lot?

We don't really get a straight answer to the question. Indeed, one might even argue that it was blasted right into the sky during the Ultimate Battle since the principal argument against the Charmed Ones, namely, that they had to be stopped, lest they and their offspring wreak havoc on humanity, was blown to pieces by sisters imbued by the Hollow.

Yet, where are the sisters ever held to account with respect to the Avatar experiment? They allowed their own needs to color the clarity with which they ought to have used to penetrate the Avatar pipedream. Instead, Phoebe's navel needs and Piper's quest for normality blind them to any and all reasonable questions that ought to have been asked of the Avatars. Paige is ignored for it is assumed that she, too, is being guided by her own personal needs, i.e., finding a boyfriend in Kyle. Thus, how could anyone give credence to her dissenting views?

The fact that the sisters undid the damage with the exception of Kyle does not excuse them from the frivolous use of their powers to bring into existence a utopia that they never really had known enough about. Going into utopia with a wing and a prayer makes about as much sense as the fools who thought going into Iraq who make a million flowers bloom. At best, it opened up Pandora's box. The fact that we haven't held these accountable either suggests perhaps a weakness in American culture. We are not very good at holding people accountable.

Did the sisters ever expressed regret for participating in the Avatars' plans or acknowledge their own contribution after the world returned to normal?

[whitelightertony]

I also agree that the Charmed Ones' biggest lesson (and repeated downfall) was their failure to stop using magic to satisfy their own selfish whims.

They didn't always seem to understand that they had a greater responsibility (compared to powerless mortals) to rein in their selfish desires. Especially because they had such great magical strength - - the reason they needed to be more responsible was because their misuse of magic could lead to consequences that spiraled out of control ("All Hell Breaks Loose," "Ordinary Witches," and the entire Avatar story arc).

Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if Penny and Patty did the same thing, when they were alive.

[colehellsangel]

I don't see how they misused their powers for their own personal needs. They even corrected that problem in Morality Bites. Although I will give you the avatar series, since they were motivated to help them because they thought their prize was the normal demon free world that they desired.

[whitelightertony]

One example, which I believe ljones pointed out recently, was Phoebe magically transforming Spencer Ricks into a turkey.

Or Piper turning the reporters into rats.

I'm sure there are a few other examples.

Although I'm not certain if we should include the Charmed Ones' actions when possessed or under spells - - on the same level as when they abuse magic by their own free will.

[colehellsangel]

whitelightertony said:

One example, which I believe ljones pointed out recently, was Phoebe magically transforming Spencer Ricks into a turkey.

Or Piper turning the reporters into rats.

I'm sure there are a few other examples.

Although I'm not certain if we should include the Charmed Ones' actions when possessed or under spells - - on the same level as when they abuse magic by their own free will.

Thats true but those were not frequent occasions, they also saved many innocents mortal and magical with their powers.

[whitelightertony]

Thats true but those were not frequent occasions, they also saved many innocents mortal and magical with their powers.

Oh, I agree.

I'm just saying there were occasions when they abused their magic...and by doing so, they ran the risk of having disgruntled mortals seek out vengeance against them (the way Nathaniel Pratt did) once the magic was reversed.

[ljones]

colehellsangel said:

whitelightertony said:

One example, which I believe ljones pointed out recently, was Phoebe magically transforming Spencer Ricks into a turkey.

Or Piper turning the reporters into rats.

I'm sure there are a few other examples.

Although I'm not certain if we should include the Charmed Ones' actions when possessed or under spells - - on the same level as when they abuse magic by their own free will.

Thats true but those were not frequent occasions, they also saved many innocents mortal and magical with their powers.

Yes, but that should not give them an excuse to misuse their powers.

[marienomad]

ljones said:

colehellsangel said:

Thats true but those were not frequent occasions, they also saved many innocents mortal and magical with their powers.

Yes, but that should not give them an excuse to misuse their powers.

Exactly! Like in real life when police officers maybe once or twice looked the other way or mis used his power in any way is bad. The Charmed Ones are that way. After all this time, they should know better than to use their powers in abusive ways.

[whitelightertony]

Although, let's be honest here: in the Charmedverse, pretty much everyone misused their magic at one point or another.

I'd even argue that The Tribunal abused its power, since I believe it selectively chose to punish Phoebe as a rationalization simply to save face.

[vandergraafk]

It is in Kill Billie, Volume 1 where Piper turns the inquiring reporters into rats scurrying about. She just sort of casually dismisses Paige's insistent objection that you can't turn humans into rats. She reluctantly changes them back when Paige remains insistent. Ironically, Piper's action serves to serve up the marital nest. Pugilistic Leo tries to defend himself from acts at the child care facility. When he comes home and complains, Piper exudes no sympathy. This leads - surprise, surprise - to sniping.

As for Phoebe: Spencer Ricks never should have been turned into a turkey, even though his words and beliefs practically cried out for retaliation. Frankly, I would have turned him into a pig, since he was after all a male chauvinist pig.

[spellcheck]

Phoebe's most difficult life lesson:

There IS such a thing as showing too much skin...