Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2014 20:13:55 GMT -5
Agreed. I would have understood Prue's anger better if Victor got the chance to explain himself. Even if leaving them was a bad choice, he obviously had his reasons. Still, at least he came back, not everyone has that kind of courage. I guess that's why Piper and Phoebe forgave him so quickly. Agreed again. It would help it they'd actually explained when Victor left on the show. In Season 1 during 'That 70s Episode' he is already gone mere months after Phoebe is born but in 'Forever Charmed' they are totally together just as Phoebe has been conceived. This contradicted Victor's Christmas videotape from 'Thank You for Not Morphing' when Phoebe is about 1. So, does this mean he was visiting the girls regularly? But then in Season 2 and 4, they said that Sam and Patty 'had an affair', but it wouldn't have been if Victor had already gone. So did they split when Patty was pregnant with Phoebe and then get back together until she slept with Sam? And one last thing, Prue mentioned that Victor wasn't around before and when Patty died (which would make sense because he would notice she was pregnant with Paige) yet in 'Sympathy for the Demon' in S5 he is visiting Piper on her birthday where she looks about 7! It would be useful to have known what the circumstances really were because it looks to me as if Victor tried his hardest to stay in the girls' lives but was crushed by Patty's affair and then shunned by Grams after her death. Prue's anger especially didn't make sense in S3 when she'd only just seen him in S1.
|
|
|
Post by robert123 on Aug 13, 2014 20:45:29 GMT -5
Agreed. I would have understood Prue's anger better if Victor got the chance to explain himself. Even if leaving them was a bad choice, he obviously had his reasons. Still, at least he came back, not everyone has that kind of courage. I guess that's why Piper and Phoebe forgave him so quickly. Agreed again. It would help it they'd actually explained when Victor left on the show. In Season 1 during 'That 70s Episode' he is already gone mere months after Phoebe is born but in 'Forever Charmed' they are totally together just as Phoebe has been conceived. This contradicted Victor's Christmas videotape from 'Thank You for Not Morphing' when Phoebe is about 1. So, does this mean he was visiting the girls regularly? But then in Season 2 and 4, they said that Sam and Patty 'had an affair', but it wouldn't have been if Victor had already gone. So did they split when Patty was pregnant with Phoebe and then get back together until she slept with Sam? And one last thing, Prue mentioned that Victor wasn't around before and when Patty died (which would make sense because he would notice she was pregnant with Paige) yet in 'Sympathy for the Demon' in S5 he is visiting Piper on her birthday where she looks about 7! It would be useful to have known what the circumstances really were because it looks to me as if Victor tried his hardest to stay in the girls' lives but was crushed by Patty's affair and then shunned by Grams after her death. Prue's anger especially didn't make sense in S3 when she'd only just seen him in S1. What I understood was that they broke up shortly after Phoebe was concieved, and they came back together when Phoebe was born or something (Just exactly as you said). And then I don't know if they broke up shortly before Patty's death, or if they already were apart around the time of Patty's pregnancy with Paige (Although, like you said, that is the thing that makes the most sense) And it is possible that even if he left, he came back for their birthdays for like 2, 3 years and they never saw him again. I remember Prue saying that Victor was away for 20 years, but if Piper was like 7 when Victor visited, then the girls saw him at leas once again.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2014 21:29:20 GMT -5
Agreed again. It would help it they'd actually explained when Victor left on the show. In Season 1 during 'That 70s Episode' he is already gone mere months after Phoebe is born but in 'Forever Charmed' they are totally together just as Phoebe has been conceived. This contradicted Victor's Christmas videotape from 'Thank You for Not Morphing' when Phoebe is about 1. So, does this mean he was visiting the girls regularly? But then in Season 2 and 4, they said that Sam and Patty 'had an affair', but it wouldn't have been if Victor had already gone. So did they split when Patty was pregnant with Phoebe and then get back together until she slept with Sam? And one last thing, Prue mentioned that Victor wasn't around before and when Patty died (which would make sense because he would notice she was pregnant with Paige) yet in 'Sympathy for the Demon' in S5 he is visiting Piper on her birthday where she looks about 7! It would be useful to have known what the circumstances really were because it looks to me as if Victor tried his hardest to stay in the girls' lives but was crushed by Patty's affair and then shunned by Grams after her death. Prue's anger especially didn't make sense in S3 when she'd only just seen him in S1. What I understood was that they broke up shortly after Phoebe was concieved, and they came back together when Phoebe was born or something (Just exactly as you said). And then I don't know if they broke up shortly before Patty's death, or if they already were apart around the time of Patty's pregnancy with Paige (Although, like you said, that is the thing that makes the most sense) And it is possible that even if he left, he came back for their birthdays for like 2, 3 years and they never saw him again. I remember Prue saying that Victor was away for 20 years, but if Piper was like 7 when Victor visited, then the girls saw him at leas once again. It would have to be something like that. It bugs me that he wouldn't have gone to Patty's funeral though. That seems so cold of him. Either Prue had a very myopic view of her Dad's leaving or the writers messed up, because she asked Victor why he didn't 'help out' when Patty died. Perhaps he DID go to the funeral but left again soon after and Prue has just been filled with years of Grams bad-mouthing him. Also, Piper said that she or Phoebe never 'knew him' like Prue did, but in that flashback episode, Piper is definitely old enough to at least know him a bit. Obviously just more stupid inconsistencies.
|
|
|
Post by robert123 on Aug 13, 2014 21:44:14 GMT -5
What I understood was that they broke up shortly after Phoebe was concieved, and they came back together when Phoebe was born or something (Just exactly as you said). And then I don't know if they broke up shortly before Patty's death, or if they already were apart around the time of Patty's pregnancy with Paige (Although, like you said, that is the thing that makes the most sense) And it is possible that even if he left, he came back for their birthdays for like 2, 3 years and they never saw him again. I remember Prue saying that Victor was away for 20 years, but if Piper was like 7 when Victor visited, then the girls saw him at leas once again. It would have to be something like that. It bugs me that he wouldn't have gone to Patty's funeral though. That seems so cold of him. Either Prue had a very myopic view of her Dad's leaving or the writers messed up, because she asked Victor why he didn't 'help out' when Patty died. Perhaps he DID go to the funeral but left again soon after and Prue has just been filled with years of Grams bad-mouthing him. Also, Piper said that she or Phoebe never 'knew him' like Prue did, but in that flashback episode, Piper is definitely old enough to at least know him a bit. Obviously just more stupid inconsistencies. Exactly, I think that Prue's anger is mostly from Grams. And yeah, probably Piper never knew Victor exactly like Prue. Just as Phoebe probably doesn't remember a thing about their non-magical family, while Piper and Prue are more likely to remember them
|
|
ljones
Whitelighter
Posts: 4,123
|
Post by ljones on Aug 13, 2014 22:06:00 GMT -5
The idea of using Empathy to repel aggressive magical attacks make no sense to me. What on earth were Kern and his writers thinking?
By using their magic to repel demonic/warlock attacks is personal gain. Which makes the personal gain rule redundant, as far as I'm concerned.
Victor was around during Christmas of 1976, when Phoebe was one year and Patty was one-and-a-half months pregnant with Paige. This tells me that Patty had cheated on her husband.
He was judged on his Belthazor past in Season 3. However, he had ceased to be one of the Source's minions in the season's second half and began helping them. But when Raynor manipulated him into killing a witch via telepathy; Cole was out of favor again. Until they learned the truth about what really happened.
And if the sisters really suspected that Cole was possessed by the Source, why didn't they help him? Why did they set out to kill him with extreme prejudice? It doesn't make sense to kill someone if you knew they were a victim of possession?
This doesn't make sense. Cole was born as part-demon, part-human. That was his DNA makeup. For him to have no demonic DNA would result in him barely existing. I think he simply lost his powers in "Black As Cole".
It's dumb to me. It's dumb to believe that if one chooses a certain path, he or she will stay on that path forever. There is no guarantee that something like that will always happen. Life is too uncertain for such a guarantee. It strikes me as something a child would believe in order to avoid the scary possibility that life is uncertain, chaotic and cannot be labeled so easily. And why Brad Kern would dump such childish writing in a series in which adults are the main characters is beyond me.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2014 23:08:13 GMT -5
Exactly, I think that Prue's anger is mostly from Grams. And yeah, probably Piper never knew Victor exactly like Prue. Just as Phoebe probably doesn't remember a thing about their non-magical family, while Piper and Prue are more likely to remember them I just didn't get why Piper acted like she didn't know Victor at all and he himself confused Phoebe for Piper. I think in the earlier episode they wrote it as if Victor left very early on and never came back, but then with the complications of Sam, Patty and Paige, it started to sound like he was a regular visitor.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2014 23:28:35 GMT -5
Aug 14, 2014 4:06:00 GMT 1 ljones said: I don't know, and I thought Telepathy was supposed to be the power that allowed you to 'use' someone's power (like Zachary from Magic School) and Empathy allowed you to 'channel' the power. So why could Phoebe do both. I wished they'd kept it as Prue had it in Season 3, it simply enhanced her telekinetic/astral projection abilities. All it did was make Phoebe horny. They should've waited until she gained control over it first and then let her be able to 'cancel' emotions, increase them or deplete them, and since powers come from emotions, a demon would probably need to be angry to make a fireball, and so she could literally take away his anger and thus, take away his ability to produce fireballs (temporarily anyway). I suppose 'protecting the Innocent' requires one to protect oneself in the process, but I agree anyway. It was a stupid rule. At least for trivial, non-harmful things. Yeah, I guess they were back on and then the Sam affair happened so he left again. Not enough for my liking. Phoebe excepted him back within a couple of episodes. She did kick him out after Jenna rightly but then decided he was okay again because of a spell. I think Prue was right, how does a few good deeds erase a century of evil and murder? I don't know. He was probably too powerful to be saved by that point, and they probably wouldn't be able to vanquish the Source's 'essence' without killing him. They should've tried to help him in S5 though. I agree it didn't make sense, how can you be 'half' a demon. If that rule applied, the Halliwells were like 1/300th witch. I can't actually remember if the potion Emma used was a power-stripping potion or a vanquishing potion, because they kept talking about Belthazor being 'dead' but wouldn't Cole have been dead too? If it was a power-stripping potion, he's just a demon with no powers. They choose a path but it doesn't necessarily mean they'll stay on it. Good witches obviously break the Wiccan Rede all the time and become Warlocks. It's strikes me as more of an initiation.
|
|
|
Post by robert123 on Aug 14, 2014 0:35:15 GMT -5
I just didn't get why Piper acted like she didn't know Victor at all and he himself confused Phoebe for Piper. I think in the earlier episode they wrote it as if Victor left very early on and never came back, but then with the complications of Sam, Patty and Paige, it started to sound like he was a regular visitor. Yes, it's confusing. Again, probably just writing inconsistencies. And about Victor confusing Phoebe and Piper, since around that time, the writers put Victor as gone since like, always, he probably just was thought to be like this bad father who wants to redeem himself, and even then he makes mistakes
|
|
ljones
Whitelighter
Posts: 4,123
|
Post by ljones on Aug 28, 2014 23:31:09 GMT -5
["I don't know, and I thought Telepathy was supposed to be the power that allowed you to 'use' someone's power (like Zachary from Magic School) and Empathy allowed you to 'channel' the power. So why could Phoebe do both."]
With Telepathy, you can manipulate anyone into doing anything, as long as you send that message to the other person's brain.
|
|
|
Post by CharmedBOSthanh on Sept 6, 2014 15:41:08 GMT -5
I keep saying this but what I would of liked to see with Prue, Piper and Phoebe is a Xmas show where the girls got a blessing/cool spell in the BOS that gave them extra gifts they could of used just for that day for a particular demon and them celebrate Xmas and saved Santa in the process. Have to save a group of good kids not demon children to save make it a real family show that particular episode. Imagine if that particular spell/blessing was in my copy of the BOS I think I would be running around the house like a headless goose yelling YEAH!!! I would be the happiest little bunny in the world They could of made this almost like a TV movie it would of been the best seeing the original girls in a Charmed TV movie I would be so happy I think the disc would of broken by now cause I would of watched it a million times. I love good Xmas movies and a Charmed one would of been the best. It would of been my favourite Xmas movie in the world since Charmed is my favourite TV show in the world. Thanks for ripping off us Charmed fans nice going! I feel you guys cheated the Charmed fans a half replica of the BOS and no Xmas show not happy!
I have to watch other stupid shows cause Charmed fans didn't get a Xmas show which sucks and they should of cause Charmed is the best show in the world and universe need I say anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Last year I was doing school and as it was December I cracked it cause Charmed had no Xmas show to watch I am not a happy camper regarding this. I love my show and this show the best should of had a Xmas show period!
I would also love to see Piper come out with a big turkey as she was a chef and Leo visit and he cuts the turkey. And you see what gifts the girls give each other. Oh as I am typing this I have my BOS right next to me God I love that book I even don't mind the incorrect colours cause the company taught me a valuable lesson be grateful you have a copy cause there are many fans that can't afford one cause yes man they are expensive. If you can afford it get a copy cause having the book makes the show just that more special and epic the show becomes really inter-active virtual TV Charmed style YEAH! . /font]
|
|
ljones
Whitelighter
Posts: 4,123
|
Post by ljones on Sept 17, 2014 0:02:23 GMT -5
Good deeds will never erase Cole's crimes. Being labeled as "good witches" and "protectors of the innocent" will never erase the Charmed Ones' crimes. And they did commit crimes. Leo's role as a whitelighter and Elder will never erase his crime.
Past deeds or being labeled as "good" will never erase the crimes of any character. Acknowledging that one did wrong and be willing to try to take a different path is the best solution in my opinion.
If you cannot forgive Cole for his crimes, I do not see how you can forgive the Halliwells and Leo for their crimes.
What did the Source need the Power of Three for? He was more powerful than the Charmed Ones. The only way they were able to kill him was the combination of the Power of Three and all of the past spirits of Warren witches.
|
|
|
Post by Darkhorse Christian on Oct 7, 2014 23:25:02 GMT -5
Not enough for my liking. Phoebe excepted him back within a couple of episodes. She did kick him out after Jenna rightly but then decided he was okay again because of a spell. I think Prue was right, how does a few good deeds erase a century of evil and murder? To answer the last question: they don't, but then that's why the atoner is actually a valid character trope, and ultimately the one that defined Cole's characterization when it was at its best. And if anything, her accepting him back due to discovering and countering what Raynor's spell had done is actually kinda fitting. After all, the sisters were already proven not to be immune to magical heel turns themselves, right?
|
|
|
Post by isaiah on Nov 4, 2014 1:08:45 GMT -5
1. I want prue alive she my favorite character and had cool powers. 2. All four sisters together to make the power of four to be greater then the power of three. 3. Prue with andy and kids 4. All get new powers 5. Christy back even though she was evil she was made evil by the triad. So she and billie can be the ultimate power a force of good. 6. Evil charmed ones vs good charmed ones
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 19:34:05 GMT -5
If you cannot forgive Cole for his crimes, I do not see how you can forgive the Halliwells and Leo for their crimes. Simple. None of those murdered an Innocent person, like Cole did. Except Chris and Leo, who killed Valkyries. But Leo did so to protect the sisters. Chris killed one heartlessly. But the sisters only killed demons/warlocks, and didn't actually manage to kill Billie or Christie, who at that point were basically warlocks/evil witches. What did he need their individual powers? He he stole their P03 it would've taken awake their Charmed status and they'd be standard witches i.e. easy to kill.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 19:37:22 GMT -5
To answer the last question: they don't, but then that's why the atoner is actually a valid character trope, and ultimately the one that defined Cole's characterization when it was at its best. And if anything, her accepting him back due to discovering and countering what Raynor's spell had done is actually kinda fitting. After all, the sisters were already proven not to be immune to magical heel turns themselves, right? Good point. I think Phoebe's lax view on morality annoyed me more than Cole's atonement anyway. I accept that she let him back after killing Janna (because he was under Raynor's spell) but I didn't get why she acted so disgusted in the first place when she'd already seemingly dealt with the fact that he'd killed countless innocents for 100 years.
|
|
|
Post by ~B@MeLiSsA30@B~ on Dec 6, 2014 2:32:46 GMT -5
That's a good question. I been watching the seasons again the last couple weeks. I am currently on S5, and I was thinking about certain things I would of changed as I was watching the show. And the other seasons 2.
1. I really liked Cole and Phoebe's relationship, and I hated that they made him The Source. I would not of done that.
2. I would not of had Prue die (if it was all possible in real life)
3. I would not of made Leo an Elder
4. Having Chris come back to the past was fine, but to have him hate his father, and just the way they portrayed his character I wasn't too fond of.
5. I would of skipped the whole thing on the Avatars. One of the reasons S7 is my least favorite. Although I do like Zankou.
6. Season 8...........that is a hate love situations. I liked Billie, but I also disliked her character too. I probably would of changed certain episodes. Not sure yet.
7. I really liked how the girls dressed nicely in the early seasons, and how Prue was very professional when she went to work. Than it went to them wearing basically nothing on top. Lose fitting clothes that show the cleavage. It went from being a show about sisters, to them attracting people in the show, and how they look. I would of changed that. It bugs me.
I know there are other things, but I cannot think of them right now. I am tired. It's late here. I will edit this as I think of them.
|
|
ljones
Whitelighter
Posts: 4,123
|
Post by ljones on Dec 7, 2014 23:53:25 GMT -5
A victim's moral compass DOES NOT give the Halliwells and Leo an excuse. I can't believe that's your opinion. But I forget. The Halliwells and Leo are the show's protagonists. When they commit a crime or make a mistake - especially if their victims are "evil" anyway - they get an out. That is just disgusting to me. That's like using the victim's character or moral compass to commit evil.
|
|
|
Post by Darkhorse Christian on Dec 8, 2014 0:17:48 GMT -5
Now it seems to me like you're getting dangerously close to saying the Charmed Ones should've never ever vanquished a single demon. If that's not the case, please clarify.
|
|
ljones
Whitelighter
Posts: 4,123
|
Post by ljones on Dec 13, 2014 23:54:20 GMT -5
Now it seems to me like you're getting dangerously close to saying the Charmed Ones should've never ever vanquished a single demon. If that's not the case, please clarify. Why are you trying to change what I am trying to say? I think I pretty much made myself clear. A good example is what happened to Cole in late Season 4. He became possessed by the Source. Although Paige was suspicious about him, she never made an effort to learn the circumstances behind why he was the Source. She fell victim to her own prejudices and dislike of him and made an assumption. Her suspicions led the sisters to kill Cole with extreme prejudice . . . without bothering to save him from the Source's possession. Here's another example . . . Rick Gittridge. Phoebe was the one responsible for breaking him out of jail. Phoebe and Paige decided to set him up to be killed by demons, when it was absolutely unnecessary. Paige could have simply orbed the gun from his hand. They could have erased his memories and send him back to prison . . . before helping Chris deal with those demons who were after him. To this day, I'm still wondering why Kern and his writers had allowed Paige and Phoebe to set up Rick's death in that manner and without any consequences for their actions. Remember "Awakened"? Who set everything in that episode in motion? Piper's greed. She got greedy and decided to purchase South American fruit that had not been inspected by U.S. Customs. Piper never really paid the price for her actions in the end, due to Leo's intervention. Instead, he got punished. Even Dr. Williamson was punished for something that Piper had set in motion. His life. He was guilty of allowing his obsession with what really happened in "Awakened" to get the best of him. But I was disgusted that Leo, Prue and Phoebe felt no remorse or guilt over his death . . . and tried to pretend that what all of them had done in "Awakened" had no bearing on his death. Piper felt some guilt, but again, she avoided paying any real consequences for her action. Must I bring up the Avatars? What was the lesson that the sisters learned from their experiences with the Avatars? That humanity needed to experience both the good and the bad to grow. Not once did they ever realize that their actions, along with the Avatars, was nothing more than the psychic rape of humanity. Even worse, they set out to kill a lot of demons who were doing nothing at the time of their deaths. It's one thing for them to save someone or themselves from demons. But when the latter were doing nothing . . . the Halliwells' actions merely looked like genocide in my eyes. Speaking of psychic rape, I guess I should not have been surprised that the sisters had failed to learn a lesson about resorting to psychic rape (when it is unnecessary), considering that Phoebe and Paige had no qualms about ripping Darryl Morris' soul from his body, without his consent. The writers allowed them to get off real easy when Darryl decided to quickly forgive him. I was just disgusted. Yes, I would have allowed Darryl to forgive them . . . in time. Not right away. They didn't learn anything from such a quick forgiveness. It was one thing to use magic to erase Rick Gittiridge's memories of "Hyde School Reunion", considering they could not allow him to remember what he knew about them. But to play God and change the nature of humanity without their consent or steal Darryl's soul without his consent? I don't think so. This has always been a problem with "CHARMED" . . . the main protagonists got away with a lot mistakes and crimes, because they were the main characters. Not only is this a problem with "CHARMED", but with a lot of sci-fi/fantasy shows.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2014 5:19:09 GMT -5
A victim's moral compass DOES NOT give the Halliwells and Leo an excuse. I can't believe that's your opinion. But I forget. The Halliwells and Leo are the show's protagonists. When they commit a crime or make a mistake - especially if their victims are "evil" anyway - they get an out. That is just disgusting to me. That's like using the victim's character or moral compass to commit evil. The Valkyries Leo killed WERE NOT victims though, they were going to murder two of his family members, to me that's justifiable homicide. Fair enough, it's not quite on a par with killing demons, but technically neither is killing warlocks, as warlocks are supposedly former witches and, thus, are as human as witches (or should be accordingly to the show's early mythology). However, you wouldn't call a demon a 'victim' would you? The whole point is to protect Innocents from the forces of Evil intent on causing them harm. Unless they were to disempower every single adversary, there's no other way to neutralise an enemy. The Valkyries aren't Evil, I know, but if they're more than killing to attack and kill a witch, then there's no reason for that witch/whitelighter not to defend themselves. The only Valkyrie that was a victim was the one Chris murdered in cold-blood for her pendant. Christy and Billie are a bit more complicated. At that point I don't consider them or the Charmed Ones to be 'good witches' or 'warlocks', so neither party is really the victim nor could either have taken the moral highground in that situation. The only really other 'victim' of the COs was Phoebe's old gang friend, Rick, which is why his death is universally vilified by fans, because the COs actions led directly to his murder, and he was a human which, despite, his actions disqualifies him from being a 'force for Evil' (helping the Innocent not punishing the guilty springs to mind).
|
|