Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
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Post by Esmeralda on Feb 3, 2010 12:12:24 GMT -5
Had this discussion at another site and wondered what you guys thought. They left out the angels and the cleaners since it's hard to tell just how powerful they are/aren't. Here's my list in order: What would yours be?
1. The Woogeyman. Everyone wanted his home, the Nexus, and whoever controlled it would gain great power, either good or evil. That had to make him the most powerful.
2. Barbas. He was never vanquished and kept coming back. With his power of fear, I truly believe he could've made *any* of the other creatures afraid, even all of the Angels and the Cleaners, which definitely makes him the next-most powerful.
3. Cole the Avatar. He was crazy and he had all of the powers of the Avatars.
4. Avatars. They are certainly one of the most powerful ones. They have the power to manipulate reality, are invincible, exist outside of time and space, but they needed their group (and the Charmed Ones becoming avatars) in order to do such stuff, unlike Cole.
5. The Ultimate Power--Billie and Christy. With their power, they could've easily gotten rid of anyone below them, and could manipulate reality even easier than the Avatars could. The only reason they're not above the Avatars is that they weren't immortal. The sisters had to take in the Hollow in order to get rid of them.
6. Zankou--the one who should've been allowed to get rid of The Charmed Ones at the end of Season 7 so we wouldn't have been put through the torture of Season Eight. The smartest of the Charmed Ones' foes who could only be defeated when The Charmed Ones cheated by using a power that should not have been theirs--Prue's version of astral projection should *not* have been able to be taught.
7. Wyatt--he might even belong farther up, but we never truly got to see what he was capable of.
8. Piper--with her powers of explosion, she didn't really need the Charmed Ones for anyone who's not above her. With her anger and self-pity, she truly didn't need the toga party in order to get rid of the Titans.
9. The Charmed Ones--very irritating that they'd be rated so low, but for everyone above them, they needed help, so the most powerful force of good ever very simply wasn't very powerful.
10. The Source of All Evil--not as smart as Zankou (he should've killed off Piper and Phoebe and *then* turn Paige evil) and needed the Hollow to try to get rid of them. And he feared Zankou enough to lock him up, so he had to be less powerful. The Charmed Ones were able to get rid of him just with a spell--piece of cake.
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ljones
Whitelighter
Posts: 4,123
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Post by ljones on Feb 3, 2010 21:42:10 GMT -5
The Charmed Ones were more powerful than the Source? I don't think so. They couldn't vanquish the Source without extra power from the spirits of their ancestors.
Cole more powerful than the Avatars? I don't know. They were powerful enough to give him extra power . . . and they could take it away.
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Post by SEERofCHAOS on Mar 7, 2010 19:33:24 GMT -5
Cole is indeed weaker than the Avatars. In Sam I Am, even super-powerful invincible Cole couldn't even damage the two Avatars who he threw an energy ball at.
Even when Cole was an Avatar he simply didn't know how to use the power the same way Leo did, which led to his demise.
Also I think the Elders should be on the list. Althought they were more peaceful they did have those destructive lighting bolt powers, not to mention the ability to give a dead person whitelighter powers.
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Post by forbes on Mar 8, 2010 4:14:56 GMT -5
Barbus COULD not be vanquished, but the sisters defeated him time and time again.
I would still pen the sisters as the strongest power.
Some things that I think shall be missing:
-Tempest
-The Book of Shadows (Not really a being but.. You know)
Piper is not more powerful than the charmed ones.. That statement makes no sense. She could not have vanquished all the demons alone, hence why the power of 3 was needed to vanquish so many demons. Paige and Pheobe DID have power, and by saying that Piper was more powerful than the power of 3 implies that you think Paige and Pheobe took away from Pipers power, instead of adding to it - because they did add to it. They were always strongest together.
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Mar 8, 2010 8:44:05 GMT -5
Barbus COULD not be vanquished, but the sisters defeated him time and time again. I would still pen the sisters as the strongest power. Some things that I think shall be missing: -Tempest -The Book of Shadows (Not really a being but.. You know) Piper is not more powerful than the charmed ones.. That statement makes no sense. She could not have vanquished all the demons alone, hence why the power of 3 was needed to vanquish so many demons. Paige and Pheobe DID have power, and by saying that Piper was more powerful than the power of 3 implies that you think Paige and Pheobe took away from Pipers power, instead of adding to it - because they did add to it. They were always strongest together. How could the sisters be more powerful when they needed help to vanquish everyone above them? They were supposed to be the most powerful force of good ever, but they weren't. They could defeat Barbas but they couldn't vanquish him. That means he kept beating them by coming back. He was more powerful. |
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Mar 8, 2010 9:25:05 GMT -5
Some things that I think shall be missing: -Tempest Oh, you're right! Definitely missed him. Since the alternate-world Charmed Ones were able to defeat Cole, I'll substitute him for Cole. No, it needed the sisters to read the spells. It would be on the list, but not as a Top 10. I read somewhere that Phoebe is your favorite (she was mine, too, until she became the Queen of the Underworld and became PhoeMe/Freebie rather than Phoebs), well, it's spelled Phoebe not Pheobe. It's Greek and that's how they spell.  Yes, Paige and Phoebe had powers, but both needed the other two in order to vanquish demons. Unlike her sisters, with Piper's explosion powers she didn't need the others in order to vanquish demons who aren't on the list. Turning her time-manipulation into molecule-manipulation was one of the worst things that ever happened to Charmed, just like giving Phoebe levitation and empathy when neither had anything to do with seeing the future. |
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Post by forbes on Mar 8, 2010 10:33:19 GMT -5
Yes, Paige and Phoebe had powers, but both needed the other two in order to vanquish demons. Unlike her sisters, with Piper's explosion powers she didn't need the others in order to vanquish demons who aren't on the list. Turning her time-manipulation into molecule-manipulation was one of the worst things that ever happened to Charmed, just like giving Phoebe levitation and empathy when neither had anything to do with seeing the future. I am still going to disagree with you  Haha. At the end of the day though, you can't deny that Piper couldn't vanquish all of the demons that they did as the charmed ones, which in my opinion makes them stronger. At the same time I find Pipers powers very cut and dry, and still really unflexible in the sense that she could only really blow things up. Her power had the most fire power, definatly, and she had the strongest powers out of the four of them. |
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Post by SEERofCHAOS on Mar 8, 2010 11:47:30 GMT -5
Yes, Paige and Phoebe had powers, but both needed the other two in order to vanquish demons. Unlike her sisters, with Piper's explosion powers she didn't need the others in order to vanquish demons who aren't on the list. Turning her time-manipulation into molecule-manipulation was one of the worst things that ever happened to Charmed, just like giving Phoebe levitation and empathy when neither had anything to do with seeing the future. I am still going to disagree with you Haha. At the end of the day though, you can't deny that Piper couldn't vanquish all of the demons that they did as the charmed ones, which in my opinion makes them stronger. At the same time I find Pipers powers very cut and dry, and still really unflexible in the sense that she could only really blow things up. Her power had the most fire power, definatly, and she had the strongest powers out of the four of them. If Prue had the chance to live longer she would have the most powerful power. Piper's powers probably wouldn't grow much after that. She would probably be able to freeze more things and freeze for longer periods, or blow up a couple extra more bad guys, but Prue's telekinesis is way more flexible. It will grow and eventually Prue would be able to do similar things to both Piper and Phoebe(Levitation and Molecular Manipulation). |
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Post by forbes on Mar 8, 2010 16:47:11 GMT -5
I am still going to disagree with you Haha. At the end of the day though, you can't deny that Piper couldn't vanquish all of the demons that they did as the charmed ones, which in my opinion makes them stronger. At the same time I find Pipers powers very cut and dry, and still really unflexible in the sense that she could only really blow things up. Her power had the most fire power, definatly, and she had the strongest powers out of the four of them. If Prue had the chance to live longer she would have the most powerful power. Piper's powers probably wouldn't grow much after that. She would probably be able to freeze more things and freeze for longer periods, or blow up a couple extra more bad guys, but Prue's telekinesis is way more flexible. It will grow and eventually Prue would be able to do similar things to both Piper and Phoebe(Levitation and Molecular Manipulation). Exactly! I think Paige's is even more flexibe, I actually loved the spin they put on the orbing. And in the show Piper would have never gotten the power to blow things up (I think) if Prue had of stayed on the show she would have been amazing.. And I think Phoebe would have gotten to fly! Haha. |
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Mar 8, 2010 17:12:17 GMT -5
All I can say to all of that is *shudder* I'm so glad Prue died so I can remember the original Power of Three the way they were meant to be.
But as I keep saying, to each their own.
I would prefer their powers sticking to the original prophecy--one having the ability to move things with her mind, one having the ability to freeze time, and one the ability to see the future. With those they truly didn't need anything else--seeing the future let them see the innocents that needed saving (and when that was important, that was easily the most important power, the one that became the least-important one when the only thing Freebie used it for was to try to find out who the sperm-donor for her daughter would be) and freezing time allowed them to decide what they should do and moving things with the mind gave them a defensive power. BUT they still needed to depend on each other and spells and potions to actually get rid of the bad guy. Nothing else was ever needed. Better control of the power and the ability to do it over a larger area, yes, able to move herself, able to blow things up, able to levitate or have empathy, no.
Had their powers grown like they did during "Morality Bites", that would be one thing; having them become powers that had nothing to do with the original prophecy was lazy writing, just like making Paige's power be orb-related when, since Sam's powers as a whitelighter were EARNED, not inherited, so he shouldn't have been able to be passed them down to Paige, just like Leo should not have been able to pass his powers down to Wyatt or Chris - Paige should've just been a witch with the ability to move things with her mind, and Wyatt and Chris should've just been witches. Changing those so that the show was "fresher" was one of the worst things that was ever done to the show.
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Post by SEERofCHAOS on Mar 8, 2010 18:02:57 GMT -5
Phoebe still had the power to levitate and had the extra bonus of levitating other people aswell in "Morality Bites". Let's not forget forget the extra added person of electrokinesis, or something similar.
Although I don't fault the writers for giving the Charmed Ones extra powers, because lets face it, the show would be utterly boring if they didn't. I actually liked the idea of gaining new powers to show their growth as witches. However, their choice of new powers I would fault. It would have made more sense for Prue to gain levitation since it is literally moving her body since she can move other things, and Phoebe Astral Projection to expand on her Psi powers. Phoebe may have martial arts, but giving her an active power would get her more into the action, and I don't know about Phoebe, but I would get mad if my sisters had all the fun kicking demon ass.
Now I will have to agree with you on Whitelighter powers, as they are earned not inherited, however I would like to see Paige's powers work differently than Prue's as I imagine she in a competly different indiviual than Prue was.
Now I agree with the writiers on Piper's exploding power. There really wasn't much they could expand on with her freezing ability, but the demons were getting stronger (untill the writer's screwed that up) and it would be a good idea for extra added fire power. Maybe it could have only killed lower-level demons and knocked back stronger demons which required her sisters to vanquish. They kind of did this in later seasons, but the writers made sure Piper blew up any demon if it was convenient to the plot, depsite the demon being all powerful.
Now my biggest complaint is the lack of imagination of the writers. You are right that they could have done a lot with their first set of powers, but the writers didn't have such creativity. Prue only knocked back demons with her powers when she could do so much more. Their spell casting was limited to only vanquishing spells. Perhaps make a spell to fog up the place, or to create a goo that makes the demon stuck to the floor, or a simple cloning spell?
So basically I think expanding the powers of TCO was a smart idea, because they are suppose to be powerful witches, I just think the writer's lacked the creativity and thought process to handle it well.
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Mar 8, 2010 21:49:18 GMT -5
They were simply supposed to be the most powerful witches, not the most powerful force of good ever. Even the Elders were more powerful than the Power of Three.
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Post by forbes on Mar 8, 2010 22:04:39 GMT -5
Had their powers grown like they did during "Morality Bites", that would be one thing; having them become powers that had nothing to do with the original prophecy was lazy writing, just like making Paige's power be orb-related when, since Sam's powers as a whitelighter were EARNED, not inherited, so he shouldn't have been able to be passed them down to Paige, just like Leo should not have been able to pass his powers down to Wyatt or Chris - Paige should've just been a witch with the ability to move things with her mind, and Wyatt and Chris should've just been witches. Changing those so that the show was "fresher" was one of the worst things that was ever done to the show. The reason Paige, Wyatt and Chris could orb was because their fathers were all white lighters and their mothers were witches - and plus there is no other record in the show of a white lighter having a kid, so I think it is completely valid that they got the power to orb. It was really up to the writers, and it never said otherwise in the show. |
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Post by forbes on Mar 10, 2010 0:36:43 GMT -5
They were simply supposed to be the most powerful witches, not the most powerful force of good ever. Even the Elders were more powerful than the Power of Three. Exactly! They always came out on top though. Even though they did not have the most power, they did always find a way to beat the more powerful guys - and in a way isn't that power in itself? |
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ljones
Whitelighter
Posts: 4,123
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Post by ljones on Mar 10, 2010 11:25:32 GMT -5
They were simply supposed to be the most powerful witches, not the most powerful force of good ever. Even the Elders were more powerful than the Power of Three. Exactly! They always came out on top though. Even though they did not have the most power, they did always find a way to beat the more powerful guys - and in a way isn't that power in itself? They were just using their brains . . . something that they tend to forget to do in some cases. |
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Mar 11, 2010 11:46:36 GMT -5
Had their powers grown like they did during "Morality Bites", that would be one thing; having them become powers that had nothing to do with the original prophecy was lazy writing, just like making Paige's power be orb-related when, since Sam's powers as a whitelighter were EARNED, not inherited, so he shouldn't have been able to be passed them down to Paige, just like Leo should not have been able to pass his powers down to Wyatt or Chris - Paige should've just been a witch with the ability to move things with her mind, and Wyatt and Chris should've just been witches. Changing those so that the show was "fresher" was one of the worst things that was ever done to the show. The reason Paige, Wyatt and Chris could orb was because their fathers were all white lighters and their mothers were witches - and plus there is no other record in the show of a white lighter having a kid, so I think it is completely valid that they got the power to orb. It was really up to the writers, and it never said otherwise in the show. Yes, but those whitelighter powers were EARNED by Leo and Sam, not inherited. Those powers would not be in the father's sperm and should not have been able to be passed on. Paige, Chris and Wyatt should not have gotten them until after they died and if they had earned them. I HATE the idea of witchlighters - it makes no sense and made death mean nothing even more than corporeal ghosts or Charmed Ones dying and coming back to life over and over and over and over and over.... Did anyone *really* think that Phoebe and Paige (IF Paige actually died) would stay dead after Kill Billie, Vol 2? Not even Piper did. That took away so much of the drama of the show, part of why I loved "Charmed" and hated "The Perils of Poor, Poor, Pitiful Piper". |
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Post by SEERofCHAOS on Mar 11, 2010 13:55:37 GMT -5
Come to think of it, how does Leo even have sperm. He is dead. Wasn't it stated he didn't have to eat?
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Mar 11, 2010 14:58:08 GMT -5
Come to think of it, how does Leo even have sperm. He is dead. Wasn't it stated he didn't have to eat? Yup. Much as I love "Morality Bites", Connie Burge truly blew it by showing Little Melinda. The only way Leo and Piper (or Patty and Sam) could have a kid was through adoption. Little Melinda, Paige, Wyatt and Chris should've never existed. If only.... |
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Post by SEERofCHAOS on Mar 11, 2010 15:32:18 GMT -5
Come to think of it, how does Leo even have sperm. He is dead. Wasn't it stated he didn't have to eat? Yup. Much as I love "Morality Bites", Connie Burge truly blew it by showing Little Melinda. The only way Leo and Piper (or Patty and Sam) could have a kid was through adoption. Little Melinda, Paige, Wyatt and Chris should've never existed. If only.... Maybe if Whitelighter's weren't dead but a different magical species all together. It could explain passing on whitelighter powers. Then again it would be kind of creepy in a way. |
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Post by forbes on Mar 12, 2010 3:15:14 GMT -5
The reason Paige, Wyatt and Chris could orb was because their fathers were all white lighters and their mothers were witches - and plus there is no other record in the show of a white lighter having a kid, so I think it is completely valid that they got the power to orb. It was really up to the writers, and it never said otherwise in the show. Yes, but those whitelighter powers were EARNED by Leo and Sam, not inherited. Those powers would not be in the father's sperm and should not have been able to be passed on. Paige, Chris and Wyatt should not have gotten them until after they died and if they had earned them. Well obviously the writers and creators of the show thought that it did, and I think Brad Kern and some of his writers knew the Charmed world the best. Paige's power was more advanced than Prue's starting off for this reason, because she had an extra "boost of power" or something like that (once she learned how to control it). She could move things with her mind as well as herself, something that Prue would have eventually gotten to do in my opinion. |
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Haha. At the end of the day though, you can't deny that Piper couldn't vanquish all of the demons that they did as the charmed ones, which in my opinion makes them stronger.