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Post by SimplyAretha on May 17, 2011 3:51:19 GMT -5
Episode Discussion: All Hell Breaks Loose
Episode Summary When the Halliwell sisters are exposed as witches on nation-wide television, they form a pact with The Source to reverse time and undo the damage. However, in the process, one of the sisters makes the ultimate sacrifice, placing the Power of Three in mortal danger.
May 17, 2011 is the 10th Anniversary of Prue's Death.
Watch the episode and Discuss it here.
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Esmeralda
Charmed
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Post by Esmeralda on May 17, 2011 12:26:30 GMT -5
We discussed this quite a bit here It originally got started thanks to a thread I had seen at a different site. I'm going to repeat that thread and see what you guys think now. At What Point Did It Seem Like A Good Idea To Kill Shax In The Street? Original Poster: In All Hell Breaks Loose, Piper and Prue stupidly follow Shax into the street and "Vanquish" him. Of course, there happened to be a news crew filming the neighborhood for a fault line, and they happened to catch Piper and Prue live on film "vanquishing" Shax(I say "Vanquishing" because all that happened was that it made Shax disappear for a while. He was vanquished for good by Piper, Phoebe, and Paige in the next episode, Charmed Again). Of course, the news turned what was supposed to just be a stupid impulsive "Vanquishing" thing into a public live views and the Demon world and the Witching world was exposed publicly, and causing a chain of unfortunate events, including Piper dying after getting shot by a "Charmed One's "fan" named Alice (who was really an obsessed Witch wannabe). She shot Piper for something that Prue did to her, which didn't make sense(Prue had used her telekinesis power to throw her out of the house after she barged in, begging to be part of their covenent).
When did it seem like a good idea to "Vanquish" Shax in the public street where Mortal drivers passed by at any moment in the day, and Mortals were passing on that street frequently? Even Piper says, 'We shouldn't have vanquished Shax in the street." It was too late for that when she realized it. Hindsight is always 20/20. My response: Good idea, no. Typical Prue and her pride, which got her killed, definitely. Replier #1: Or, why did Shax even appear in broad daylight in the middle of the street anyway?
Demons didn't want exposure either and never attacked in public. It was a very convoluted way of getting them on TV. Replier #2: Another thing about this episode that is strange is that everyone who sees the Charmed Ones on TV suddenly assumes they are magical in some way and lose their heads over it. If anything, I think most people would assume it was a clever visual stunt, not magic. Original Poster: also, what was strange was that the people assumed that they killed a HUMAN being, even though Shax was gray! What human being is GRAY? Replier #3: I used to watch this show a lot when I was younger and now that I go back and watch it sometimes, I see there are a lot of problems and things like this that can't be explained any other way than lazy writing. Even the physical way Prue died doesn't make any sense. Her power allowed her to move things with her mind instead of having to use her body..she is killed by pushing the doctor out of the way instead of just moving him with telekinesis like she would have in any other episode. Original Poster: There were also other stupid things in this episode. Alice was allowed to jump on top of a van with a big @$$ shotgun and shoot a perfect aim at Piper, without no one noticing that she was on top of a van with that huge @$$ gun until after she shot piper and screamed, "I did it. I killed the wicked witch!" THEN the cops tackled her behind of the van and arrested her, when they should have done that BEFORE she was on the van and shot poor piper. Also, the news reporter sees that piper is bleeding uncontrollably, and is being dragged along by pru to the car and has the stupid nerve to ask prue, "miss halliwell, what is going on? Talk to me." It was obvious that piper was wounded. although, the reporter did soon seem to look at injured piper with something that looked like concern. The crowd of people blocking pru from driving her injured sister to the hospital was stupd too. They should have had the decency to move out of the way as it was clear tht piper was hurt. Reacting like that just because they found out that they were witches didnt make much sense. Whatcha think? Joshingabout wrote that Charmed Again was one of his favorite episodes, and I replied: Continuing your off-topic, I would put "Morality Bites", "Love Hurts", "Something Wicca This Way Comes", "The Witch is Back", "That Seventies Episode", "Deja vu All Over Again", "P3 H2O", "Murphy's Luck", "Heartbreak City", "Chick Flick", "All Halliwell's Eve", "Show Me a Sign" and "Awakened" (not necessarily in that order - just as they came to mind) ahead of both "All Hell Breaks Loose" and "Charmed Again, Part I". All of those episodes have problems of their own, but I can watch and enjoy. I can't for those two episodes, but that's just me and a lot of it is personal. I can't watch AHBL due to all of the things mentioned, and each time I watch "Charmed Again, Part I" I get upset because that episode should've been used to mourn the original Power of Three, not introduce Paige - she shouldn't have shown up until at least Episode Three. It always makes me upset due to how Shannen Doherty was fired so my favorite sister couldn't be shown for the rest of the series. Given the choice, I'd much rather watch Shining-Allure's "The Story of Prue's Death" - much more touching, much better tribute and so what we should have seen.
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Post by SimplyAretha on May 17, 2011 13:05:58 GMT -5
Thanks Es. I was trying to generate original conversation but this works to get us started off.
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on May 19, 2011 12:17:27 GMT -5
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Post by CharmedFaith on May 19, 2011 21:01:47 GMT -5
The photos are just screencaps?
But this is probably my favorite Charmed episode from the series and favorite finale. Great villan, great acting, great storyline. Ya it was stupid for Prue and Piper to chase down Shax outside and stupid of Shax to materialize outside but everyone makes mistakes even a Charmedone and a demon.
Since Shax was hellbent on assasination I dont think he really cared about where he popped up which was evident when he just appeared outside the hospital. He was more brute than brains and he thought "two CharmedOnes by themselves, why not take them out when they dont have the power of 3 to call upon?" so he took his chance and underestimated Prue/Pipers streangth.
Prue who usually thinks things through was so narrowminded with defeating Shax that she hadnt thought about exsposure and one could say that she had become a little cocky towards the end of Season3 thinking that they wouldnt get exposed and even if they did they would be able to cover it up before anyone knew.
If anything this just showed us how flawed the Halliwell sisters were and how much more they still had to grow as witches. Prue with her pride, Piper with her following, and Phoebe with her love.
This episode wouldve worked so well if not even better nowadays with where technology has gone. If it had been set today, someone with a video phone wouldve captured it and sent it to youtube making them an instant sensation.
While Charmed Again did a great job following up AHBL as best they could, it still pains me that we couldnt get a real follow up to it that with all 3 original COs intact and see how they wouldve handled this storyline with full control.
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Lexi
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Post by Lexi on May 21, 2011 12:26:24 GMT -5
CharmedFaith, I love your answer and for that you've been blessed.
The fact that it showed they still had a lot to grow is definitely spot on! And also Prue's pride. In fact, I think that's what led to her death since it was always stated that you could never overcome death. Of course, her death was also linked to the fact that she new the true meaning behind saving an innocent.
And the fact that everyone makes mistakes. I do agree there and yes, even demons and Charmed Ones can make mistakes (as they did on regularly occurrences).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2011 22:00:16 GMT -5
Gosh I can't believe its been 10 years. Too Long ago. Feels like yesterday when my heart was pumping throughout All Hell Breaks Loose!
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on May 27, 2011 23:23:17 GMT -5
It seems a pity that the show's writers rarely acknowledged the sisters' more serious mistakes.
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Post by Astral Echo on May 28, 2011 7:18:17 GMT -5
It seems a pity that the show's writers rarely acknowledged the sisters' more serious mistakes. To think for the first three years, they did learn from most of their mistakes. And Paige made a couple of Season Four but other than that, they seemed to have just grown a superiority complex.
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on May 29, 2011 15:08:12 GMT -5
Except in "Awakened".
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Post by Assassin Witch on May 31, 2011 20:10:13 GMT -5
If anything this just showed us how flawed the Halliwell sisters were and how much more they still had to grow as witches. Prue with her pride, Piper with her following, and Phoebe with her love. WOW! I never thought of that before. That's SO ACCURATE. It captures them in that episode and pretty much all of S3.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2011 17:52:08 GMT -5
I just watched this episode for the first time in ages. My friend who had only seen "Look Who's Barking Now" was watching it with me. He was so on edge. His words exactly, for someone who has never ever watched a Charmed episode. 'This is a really good show. Really good writing, a good cast, dedicated actors and damn Cole's girlfriend is fine!'.
After watching AHBLoose my friend Allan said: "What? But... Does Leo?...and Phoebe's not there? What happens? What a way to end an episode.
He then asked me to give him Season 4. I ask him "Who's your favourite sister". His text message exactly: Paige is too flaky, Piper plays it too safe, but Cole's Mrs. is fineeee". I just cracked up laughing!
Oh the Nineties and early 2000's! I miss them so much!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2012 13:35:44 GMT -5
In regards to Shax being so sloppy to allow himself to attack in public, I honestly believe this is a strict order directed from the source. I know this may sound unlikely, but heres why I believe the Source had everything manipulated in his favor.
We know in Charmed Again the Source was under the guidance of the Oracle, Who before anyone else, new Paige would reconstitute the PO3.
the Source tells the Oracle,
"Well if you had forseen the whitelighter would help his witch escape" or in the lines of that statement.
That leads me to believe that the Oracle had been present within the events of AHBL. And as a matter of fact, I believe the Oracle had foreseen the events if the Source had ordered Shax to expose magic. She foresaw that exposing magic would work in the Source's favor, and under her advisory, informed him not only to manipulate the situation with Cole/belthazor to trap Phoebe in the under world, but inform him that the solution would be to use tempest to reverse time. She most likely had a huge part in that episode all along.
Up until that episode, both witches and demons were so content with keeping magic a secret. Look at the episode Ex Libris. Then out of nowhere theres a demon who appears so reckless its almost as if hes just a brainless demon. But I can except that. I feel Shax was ordered to expose magic.
The fact she foresaw Paige even before the elders tells me that she was indeed powerful. I have no doubt that the Oracle had a major role in AHBL. The entire episode IMO was a huge manipulation by the Source. Its an episode that I have the fondest respect for the source as an enemy. He was brilliant. Of course this is just speculation since there was no mentioning of the Oracle in that episode. But what leads me to believe she was... was the conversation in Charmed Again between her and the Source. Her predictions proved accurate. Exposing magic worked in his favor. The fact he used tempest to rewind time right when Shax attacks Prue and Piper was genius! It could've been a recommendation from the Oracle the entire time.
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forbuss
Witch
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Post by forbuss on Jun 14, 2012 2:28:39 GMT -5
What an interesting point, Prudence! I have never thought of that - I just dismissed it in my head as the source making a mistake that ended up working in his favour, since I usually think of the source as someone who is hungry for Charmed power and will do anything to get it (but he was not at that point, it was later).
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Jun 14, 2012 17:45:00 GMT -5
If anything this just showed us how flawed the Halliwell sisters were and how much more they still had to grow as witches. Prue with her pride, Piper with her following, and Phoebe with her love. WOW! I never thought of that before. That's SO ACCURATE. It captures them in that episode and pretty much all of S3. Was re-reading this thread and found this. You guys are so completely totally right! Wow!
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Esmeralda
Charmed
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Post by Esmeralda on Jun 14, 2012 18:10:02 GMT -5
What an interesting point, Prudence! I have never thought of that - I just dismissed it in my head as the source making a mistake that ended up working in his favour, since I usually think of the source as someone who is hungry for Charmed power and will do anything to get it (but he was not at that point, it was later). You guys are absolutely right!
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Jun 14, 2012 18:20:47 GMT -5
I copied over some of this to that same thread that I mentioned earlier and got some interesting responses: The Original Poster wrote: I agree that there are so many wrong things in this episode:
Prue physically pushing the doctor out of the way when she usually saves innocents by telekinetically pushing them out of harm's way.
Piper doing nothing but standing in front of shax when she could have frozen him or blew him up.
The news crew and the news manger blatently ignoring one of the news employees who said that she thought Piper and Prue blowing Shax up was a hoax.
Leo going to the Underworld to help Phoebe, even though either Piper or Prue said that Phoebe could take care of herself. He left his two charges vulnerable after being exposed, which was when they needed his protection badly.
Alice just casually walking right into the Halliwell home without being stopped. There was definetely enough people outside to stop her fron getting in.
Alice shooting Piper, when it was Prue who TK threw her out of the house, not Piper.
Alice being able to shoot Piper with a shotgun while standing on top of a van. Once again, police were swarming the area, and should have noticed her getting on top of the van.
The Swat team trying to shoot Prue in her head while she was grieving her dead sister. Replier #1: I agree there were several plot holes in the episode but...
I'm guessing when it was written it was supposed to happen a lot quicker than it did on screen, so she didn't have the chance. But, Piper never freezes Shax even in season 4 IIRC so I'm guessing it doesn't work.
I don't think Alice really cared or was of sound mind to aim. She was most likely aiming for Prue who stood directly in front of Piper.
I don't think that they cared about that at the time, and part of me thinks rightly so. To them she was some crazy woman with some unknown supernatural abilities. She could have been an alien for all they knew. They just wanted to shoot her down so they could actually get her, and then most likely do tests on her. Replier #2 added: These aren't necessarily plot holes or errors, I think it's just the way it was shot. I think that this is on the best episodes of Charmed there is, and is a complete golden TV moment. If only the remaining 5 seasons were as good. Replier #3 agreed: Agree with you. This is the only episode of Charmed where I actually don't care about how many things were wrong in it. Watching it was the best hour of my life. Only thing that annoys me is that there's no proper follow-up episode. I *had* to reply to that: I can't watch this episode, so no way I'd count it as one of the best hours on TV - I'll watch "Morality Bites" twenty times over and bawl my eyes out each time, but I can't watch this one.
First because of all of these problems already mentioned which bug the tar out of me, especially Prue and Piper vanquishing a demon in the middle of the sidewalk, especially when they don't even vanquish him--that's just pure stupidity which doesn't fit either character, and, second, because it hurts too much.
Definitely nowhere near my favorite, and definitely not the best hour on TV - I hate having Prue's last episode including her acting so out of character. My guess is that if all three sisters had survived as was originally supposed to happen, this wouldn't even make most fans' top 25 episode much less top ten.
What probably bugs me the most is that IMOHO, this episodes sets up Prue dying because this is when Phoebe chooses Cole over her sisters (which set her up to turn into Freebie/PhoeME in Season Five), and Piper ends up blaming Leo when she should've blamed Phoebe, setting up Piper to turn into Miss Whinealot in Season Six, and Leo into Piper's little errand boy in Season Seven and becoming a Leocicle in Season Eight.
The end of the sisters as sisters who happened to be witches and turning them into demon-hunters, none of which would've happened had Brad Kern not taken over as executive producer and Connie Burge stopped consulting and Shannen Doherty not been fired. Reactions?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2012 18:43:02 GMT -5
What an interesting point, Prudence! I have never thought of that - I just dismissed it in my head as the source making a mistake that ended up working in his favour, since I usually think of the source as someone who is hungry for Charmed power and will do anything to get it (but he was not at that point, it was later). Thats what I don't understand. The Source never seemed to care about Charmed power. At least in AHBL and Charmed Again. He seemed to have enough power to kill them on his own. Then in Brain drain... he seemed to be interested in their powers. The oracle IMO, was the Source's most powerful seer. I believe she kept him at her best interest. She warned him that he was becoming weak and he didn't listen and it cost her her life. Unfortunately, I don't see why the writers decided to write the Source as a power hungry feen. He was perfectly fine post Charmed and Dangerous.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Jun 14, 2012 23:24:51 GMT -5
I wonder how much that had to do with what was going on in the Real World - the getting rid of Shannen and by doing that, having to get rid of Prue. Suddenly stopping the Power of Three by getting rid of one of them seemed to be more important than getting Charmed power. Seeing what happened in Charmed and Dangerous, I can't help but wonder if his character wouldn't have changed and then changed back had they continued with what I've read was Connie Burge's original plan once she was told that Cole would have to stay for an extra season (like Andy and Leo, he was originally supposed to only remain one season, so the emphasis would remain on the sisters, not their men or their kids or their enemies), where all three sisters would've survived, but Phoebe would've remained in the Underworld as Cole's queen. I would think that in that situation, the Source would've been after Charmed power the entire time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2012 14:13:50 GMT -5
What was Connie's original plan?
Was it simply to keep Phoebe in the underworld as queen after AHBL?
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