Reality Bites
Familiar
When witches don't fight we burn.
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Post by Reality Bites on Jun 11, 2011 8:00:55 GMT -5
So, we've seen tons of demons and warlocks throughout Charmed's eight year run. Where would some of the major baddies seen be placed in the hierarchy of The Underworld?
Tier One
The Source of All Evil - Ruler of the cavernous dimension that is home to both demons and warlocks. This creature is usually a powerful demon imbued with the essence of an ageless essence known as The Source of All Evil.
--- Vanquished by The Charmed Ones.
Tier Two
The Triad - Referred to as evil incarnate; and responsible for subordinating the younger generation of demons and keeping them from becoming high level rulers in The Underworld. Sought to destroy the Charmed Ones before The Source came to view them as a threat. Greatly feared, but less powerful than The Source.
--- Vanquished by The Charmed Ones.
The Council - A group of demons responsible for safe-guarding The Grimoire and officially electing demons into the position of The Source of All Evil.
--- Vanquished by The Charmed Ones.
Kurzon - Rival to The Source who was banished from The Underworld.
--- Vanquished by The Charmed Ones.
Zankou - Rival to The Source who was imprisoned in a demonic tomb.
--- Vanquished by The Charmed Ones.
Tier Three
The Brotherhood of the Thron - A demonic organization in direct servitude of The Source. Responsible for helping demons blend in among human society, and spreading evil through the surface world.
--- Presumably still active.
Tempus - The Source's sorcerer. He possesses manipulation over Time itself.
--- Presumed dead.
The Seer - A demon who serves as the personal advisor to multiple Sources; guiding them with her vivid visions of the future.
--- Vanquished by The Charmed Ones.
Barbus - Bound to The Underworld unless he can kill 13 unmarried witches on Friday the 13th. He only gains this opportunity once every 1300 years. After 1999; he manages to escape his bounds more frequently.
--- Vanquished by The Charmed Ones.
Tier Four
The Oracle - Another advisor to The Source; can foresee future events but not as accurately as The Seer.
--- Vanquished by Cole.
Shax - The Source's personal assassin who has control over the element of wind and air.
--- Vanquished by The Charmed Ones.
Tier Five
The Demonic Training Academy - A demonic training program which converts mortals into demons. These new demons then go on to serve The Source as his henchmen. (Could be responsible for the human looking demons prominent in the later seasons.)
--- Presumably still active.
The Academy - A demonic training program in the mortal realm used for training individuals who will be the personal bodyguards of The Source. Firestarters are among their top recruits.
--- Presumably still active.
Tier Six
Rex and Hannah - Warlocks in direct service to The Source. Also personal assassins.
--- Presumed dead, Vanquished by The Source.
All other demon factions and warlock covens residing in The Underworld; living under the rule of The Source.
Am I missing anything? Is there anything that should be moved or edited?
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Post by SimplyAretha on Jun 11, 2011 15:29:31 GMT -5
There was more than one seer. They did generally have names but people always referred to them as The Seer.
Seer #1 was the women who manipulated Cole and Phoebe to conceive the source's baby.
Seer #2 Kira who was killed by Zanku
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Reality Bites
Familiar
When witches don't fight we burn.
Posts: 452
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Post by Reality Bites on Jun 11, 2011 16:17:52 GMT -5
I know, but I wasn't sure where Kira, The Seer would fall into the hierarchy. She didn't serve anyone in particular, and appeared to be a more obscure advisor to demon kind. It's the same reason I didn't add The Crone, who was a certain type of Seer as well. Maybe they both fit in Tier Five? *shrug*
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Astral Alex
Familiar
#1 Prue Halliwell Fan
Not all those who wander are lost.
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Post by Astral Alex on Jun 11, 2011 17:46:36 GMT -5
I would have the Seer from Season 4 in Tier 2, simply because she was the Source's right hand woman, and was shown to be more powerful than the Oracle.
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Post by joshingabout on Jun 11, 2011 18:01:45 GMT -5
Also, it's "Brotherhood of the Thorn"  I personally wouldn't put Rex and Hannah so high, but that's just me. |
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Astral Alex
Familiar
#1 Prue Halliwell Fan
Not all those who wander are lost.
Posts: 710
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Post by Astral Alex on Jun 11, 2011 18:06:20 GMT -5
I also agree with Josh, they were low-level warlocks, only sent because they were dispensable and at the time the Charmed One's were very weak themselves. Most demons/warlocks at that time answered to the Source anyway, hence him being leader.
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Reality Bites
Familiar
When witches don't fight we burn.
Posts: 452
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Post by Reality Bites on Jun 11, 2011 18:46:46 GMT -5
I would have the Seer from Season 4 in Tier 2, simply because she was the Source's right hand woman, and was shown to be more powerful than the Oracle. Although the season four Seer is very powerful, I placed her in Tier Three due to her presumably being under the authority of The Council as shown in Womb Raider. She didn't appear to be an equal to The Council or even The Triad. Also, it's "Brotherhood of the Thorn" Edited that. I personally wouldn't put Rex and Hannah so high, but that's just me. I also agree with Josh, they were low-level warlocks, only sent because they were dispensable and at the time the Charmed One's were very weak themselves. Most demons/warlocks at that time answered to the Source anyway, hence him being leader. Where would you place Rex and Hannah? At the bottom Tier? |
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Post by joshingabout on Jun 11, 2011 18:50:27 GMT -5
I personally would, yes. The is because I viewed them as low-level warlocks. They weren't particularly powerful by Post Season 2 standards.
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Jun 12, 2011 15:35:43 GMT -5
Why would a pair of warlocks, who are basically mortals like witches, be so high up in the hierarchy of the Source's Realm?
And why did the show insist upon calling any demonic realm as "The Underworld"? In most mythologies, the Underworld was the realm were the recently dead were at.
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Astral Alex
Familiar
#1 Prue Halliwell Fan
Not all those who wander are lost.
Posts: 710
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Post by Astral Alex on Jun 12, 2011 17:19:58 GMT -5
Why would a pair of warlocks, who are basically mortals like witches, be so high up in the hierarchy of the Source's Realm? And why did the show insist upon calling any demonic realm as "The Underworld"? In most mythologies, the Underworld was the realm were the recently dead were at. Why not? Why did "Charmed" have to follow all the mythology out there, it made sense, it was the world 'under' our world? And personally I think it was very fitting, if Charmed stuck relgiously to Greek mythology it would be boring. |
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Reality Bites
Familiar
When witches don't fight we burn.
Posts: 452
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Post by Reality Bites on Jun 12, 2011 22:15:17 GMT -5
I personally would, yes. The is because I viewed them as low-level warlocks. They weren't particularly powerful by Post Season 2 standards. Edited that. |
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Jun 14, 2011 14:37:27 GMT -5
I disagree. I think the series would have been more complex and interesting if they the writers had stuck to Greek or other mythology. Then the series could have eventually elevated above the usual black-and-white morality.
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Post by joshingabout on Jun 14, 2011 14:57:06 GMT -5
How do you say one culture's mythology is right and that another one isn't? If they'd've stuck to Greek mythology, for example (even if only for the mentioning of the Underworld), how would they have made any other storylines?
What makes Charmed so great is that it encompasses multiple mythologies from all over the world.
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Jun 15, 2011 11:15:04 GMT -5
Are you paying attention? I said that if CHARMED had used Greek or other kinds of mythology, instead of sticking to its black and white morality, it could have turned out to be a more interesting and complex show.
And translates them into the series' one-note morality. The latter is one major aspect of CHARMED that did not make it great for me. In fact, I consider the black-and-white morality in the show one of its greatest weaknesses.
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Post by joshingabout on Jun 15, 2011 11:32:52 GMT -5
We were talking about the use of 'The Underworld', and of sticking to Greek/other mythology, so yes, I am paying attention, thank you very much. What I was saying was that just sticking to ONE mythology, such as Greek, invalidates other mythologies, which is neither fair nor interesting.
In terms of black and white morality, I don't think it's as big a problem as you make it out to be. Cole introduced a lot of the morally grey area that we see in Charmed, as did Chris. Yes, there's a lot of black and white morality, but the entire show isn't comprised of it.
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Post by SEERofCHAOS on Jun 17, 2011 0:19:55 GMT -5
Buffy isn't so black and white.
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Jun 18, 2011 4:44:37 GMT -5
Buffy isn't so black and white. BUFFY is not so black and white. But sometimes, it did veer into that kind of mentality regarding the non-humans . . . even during the more morally ambiguous later years. |
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Post by NubianWitch on Jul 6, 2011 9:17:02 GMT -5
I know this is off-topic, but, I have to agree with ljones on this one. She's spot on. Good & Evil in the show weren't emotional concepts, they were political parties with an agenda, leadership/authority and even campaigns for recruits (Demonic Academy, Whitelighter-to-Be missions, etc.). It became very, very contrived as Kernus took over, and even more 'fluffy' and really unbelievable.
Also, someone said that Charmed "incorporated mythologies from all around the world". Did it, really? 'Cause all I saw was Europe, Europe and more Europe, with cheesy and stereotypical representations of non-White cultures thrown in randomly.
Enola the "Shaman", anyone? The so-called Wendigo? The first Genie we see is played by a White man, and is made to look silly, and then let's not forget that other stupid Genie episode with the Lost City of Zanzibar. The Witch Doctors were really offensive and ridiculous to me, as a person of African descent. And I'm sure that Zen Master episode was just as offensive and silly to a person of East Asian descent. It was all terrible, and did *not* make the show "great". 
The only time Charmed ever strayed from this annoying Western habit of misappropriating non-European cultures was in "The Good, The Bad & The Cursed". It had a tight storyline with a historical basis, Bo Lightfeather and his sister were *not* Magical Native American stereotypes (thank God!), and it accurately depicted the differences between European & Native American cultural thought without there being some sort of annoying Apologetic White Man stereotype. This episode was directed by Shannen Doherty. That's probably why it was so amazingly awesome.
But, beyond that? Charmed sucked at its representation of mythologies, specifically non-European mythologies.
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Post by joshingabout on Jul 6, 2011 16:51:11 GMT -5
Yeah, good and evil were generalised quite a bit, but not all the time. Cole and Chris still brought a lot of moral ambiguity to the show, whether people want to see this or not.
I said that Charmed represented mythology from all over the world. Yama, is one example, along with the Zodiacs of Season 8. What you perceive as 'offensive' I deem to be reimagining with a contemporary twist, which is what I love about Charmed. It would've been far more embarrassing and insulting to have the Witch Doctor as some rambling madman in a grass skirt and a tiki mask than as a calm and confident man in a suit.
Thank God that the Cupids weren't babies/men in nappies with bows and arrows. If they'd've followed typical tradition then it would have made the show ludicrous. Yes, there was a lot of European mythology, as it tends to be the easiest to represent with the limited budget that the show had. As nice as it would have been to explore other myths and legends even more, there was only so much they could do.
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Post by NubianWitch on Jul 6, 2011 21:02:48 GMT -5
Yeah, good and evil were generalised quite a bit, but not all the time. Cole and Chris still brought a lot of moral ambiguity to the show, whether people want to see this or not. I said that Charmed represented mythology from all over the world. Yama, is one example, along with the Zodiacs of Season 8. What you perceive as 'offensive' I deem to be reimagining with a contemporary twist, which is what I love about Charmed. It would've been far more embarrassing and insulting to have the Witch Doctor as some rambling madman in a grass skirt and a tiki mask than as a calm and confident man in a suit. Thank God that the Cupids weren't babies/men in nappies with bows and arrows. If they'd've followed typical tradition then it would have made the show ludicrous. Yes, there was a lot of European mythology, as it tends to be the easiest to represent with the limited budget that the show had. As nice as it would have been to explore other myths and legends even more, there was only so much they could do.
So-called "witch doctors" are anything but. It's a term inflicted upon African societies by ignorant "anthropologists" to lump all of Africa's thousands of religious traditions into a box of ignorant superstition. Point is, there are no "witch doctors" in Africa in any sense of the word, there are only traditional healers and medicine men.
But Hollywood sees no problem in taking the "witch doctor" trope to a level of ludicrousness while giving Europe all the cultural respect, and this has been the root (along with other things) of the racist notions & cultural appropriation of non-European societies in Western culture. The sooner people realize that these tropes are based in racist folly, the sooner they can go away. 
That's all I'm sayin'.
Yeah, Cole & Chris brought moral ambiguity, but they're two examples out of the hundreds of black-and-white morality tropes the show had since it first began.
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