iamthesun
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Post by iamthesun on Mar 1, 2014 13:01:02 GMT -5
That's okay. I get what you mean though.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2014 6:00:11 GMT -5
What a tacky storyline that would've been, they would've had zero chemistry, I would've much preferred if Cole hadn't been in S5 at all, and instead we got the consequences of Phoebe's choosing to be Queen on her relationship with her sisters. Why is it that Phoebe was excused for being 'influenced' by her demonic pregnancy yet Cole was vilified for actually being possessed???
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Post by BettyN on Jun 24, 2015 20:41:54 GMT -5
As many people probably already know, the Source!Cole storyline was originally intended to happen in the first half of Season 5. (After Shannen's firing, that is... It was originally planned for early Season 4, but the need to introduce Paige pushed it back.) Season 4 would've been spent on introducing Paige and dealing with the first Source, with "Charmed and Dangerous" being the season finale. Then, early Season 5 would've been the Source!Cole storyline, with "Long Live the Queen" being Cole's big 100th episode exit. However, the ratings in Season 4 dropped MUCH lower than they had anticipated (with "A Paige from the Past" getting only 3.4 million viewers, making it the show's lowest-rated episode ever before Season 6's "Witch Wars"), and there was a very real risk for cancellation. Just in case the show wasn't renewed, Kern didn't want to leave any loose threads hanging, so he condensed the rest of the original Source story into early Season 4 and bumped the Source!Cole story up to late Season 4. The finale, "Witch Way Now," was written as a potential series finale, giving everyone closure while leaving a little bit open just in case the show was renewed. ... Which, is exactly what happened to the show, so Kern had to enter Season 5 without any kind of plan in mind. (Since he had already used up his original plan in Season 4.) Even worse, Julian was still contractually obligated to return for the first half of Season 5, even though Kern was effectively finished with his character. And, now you know why the writing suddenly became so sloppy and inconsistent in Season 5, especially in regards to Cole. Kern literally had NO idea on what to do with the show.  |
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Jun 25, 2015 1:09:30 GMT -5
Pity there was no back up storyline encase this happened anything better than Cole going mad which did no justice to his character or the tripe that was season 5 sorry although Kern had no idea what he was goanna do at the time due to fear of cancellation and so on.
Of course me and many other fans would've preferred the original idea intended anyway of if not had the Crone be the big bad for that season who would've been introduced early on so her character was developed more and you knew why she viewed Wyatt as a threat and what she would've done about that etc and then in the end she could've been the one to release the Titans when she was desperate to get the Charmed Ones out of the way and got rid of so she could go after Wyatt undisturbed in the mean time but then is ultimately vanquished in the end after the sisters season long trying to been centuries old and not the way she was after 2 episodes with just a potion which was boring and completely stupid wasting any potential there was for her.
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Post by BettyN on Jun 25, 2015 12:14:15 GMT -5
Pity there was no back up storyline encase this happened anything better than Cole going mad which did no justice to his character or the tripe that was season 5 sorry although Kern had no idea what he was goanna do at the time due to fear of cancellation and so on. Yeah, I think most people would've preferred to have seen the storyline play out as it originally would've. They wouldn't have had to fill space with this mermaid/fairytale nonsense, and Cole might've gotten a decent exit. (Especially if they used the original version of "Long Live the Queen," which ended with Cole's spirit appearing in front of Phoebe and telling her "Thank you for saving me," acknowledging his possession by the Source.) Of course me and many other fans would've preferred the original idea intended anyway of if not had the Crone be the big bad for that season who would've been introduced early on so her character was developed more and you knew why she viewed Wyatt as a threat and what she would've done about that etc and then in the end she could've been the one to release the Titans when she was desperate to get the Charmed Ones out of the way and got rid of so she could go after Wyatt undisturbed in the mean time but then is ultimately vanquished in the end after the sisters season long trying to been centuries old and not the way she was after 2 episodes with just a potion which was boring and completely stupid wasting any potential there was for her. I don't know if the Crone was ever meant to be anything more than a Villain of the Week (pity they didn't do anything else with her), but I do know that the Avatar storyline that happened in early Season 7 almost happened in late Season 5, but with Cole instead of Leo. They planned this storyline out for Cole in the event that Julian renewed his contract for the rest of the season, but when he didn't, it was put on the backburner and saved for another time. It remained there in Season 6 thanks to Chris and his storyline, but once Chris died and Kern found himself entering Season 7 without a plan, he pulled this old storyline out and gave it to Leo. There are MANY instances in early Season 7 where Piper and Leo literally appeared to be saying dialog that was meant for Phoebe and Cole. |
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Post by tim66 on Jun 26, 2015 18:40:02 GMT -5
One good story I thought of involving Paige. After losing an Innocent she truly cared about, Paige falls off the wagon and goes back to drinking (remember, she had problems with alcohol years before). Piper and Phoebe helplessly watch as their little sister battles demons far more dangerous than anything the Source could throw at them. This could have been a multi-episode arc in which Paige, with the help of her sisters, slowly finds her way out of the darkness of alcoholism again. And NO Deus Ex Machina solutions (hello Elders).
I think this would have been a good arc and give the much neglected Paige a good storyline for a change.
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Post by BettyN on Jun 26, 2015 23:43:10 GMT -5
One good story I thought of involving Paige. After losing an Innocent she truly cared about, Paige falls off the wagon and goes back to drinking (remember, she had problems with alcohol years before). Piper and Phoebe helplessly watch as their little sister battles demons far more dangerous than anything the Source could throw at them. This could have been a multi-episode arc in which Paige, with the help of her sisters, slowly finds her way out of the darkness of alcoholism again. And NO Deus Ex Machina solutions (hello Elders). I think this would have been a good arc and give the much neglected Paige a good storyline for a change. Yeah, I never liked how Paige's alcoholism was never brought up again after 4x01. In fact, much about her past, in general, was never brought up again after Season 4. Aside from Glen, we never saw any of her old friends, nor did we ever see any of her Matthews family. Instead, her life revolved entirely around magic and being a Charmed One, mostly to the detriment of her character. Also, it still frustrates me that Victor readily accepted Paige as if she was just as much his daughter as the other three, even though she was the product of the affair that destroyed his relationship with Patty and was "replacing" his own daughter, Prue, in the grand scheme of things. Why couldn't we have gotten a storyline about that? |
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Post by tim66 on Jun 27, 2015 6:37:31 GMT -5
Another missed opportunity. They way Victor just went "Meh, okay." when it came to Paige was ridiculous. He should have started with "You're not my daughter!" That would have set up the conflict.
Instead they let this slip through their fingers in favour of more rubbish fairy tale stuff.
One gets the feeling that Paige slipped through the cracks was because they only needed a new sister. So, after token character development early in S4, nothing more was done with her.
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Post by BettyN on Jun 27, 2015 10:57:02 GMT -5
One gets the feeling that Paige slipped through the cracks was because they only needed a new sister. So, after token character development early in S4, nothing more was done with her.
That's EXACTLY what happened. The only reason Paige ever existed, after all, was because of Shannen getting fired, and it's pretty obvious that they wanted to just get Paige's introduction out of the way as fast as possible so they could just pick up where they left off with the original trio. The Dark Phoebe story from late Season 4 was originally going to happen in early Season 4, after all, and A LOT of Paige's lines from those episodes literally feel like they had originally been written for Prue. Sad to think that Prue probably got twice as much character development in her three seasons as Paige got in her five.  |
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Jun 27, 2015 14:12:52 GMT -5
Exactly Paige was a person in her own right you know not just a charmed one or half sister needed to rebuild the power of three which's why I didn't like her as much season 5 onward 'cause of the way she was written character wise.
Shame.
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Post by BettyN on Jun 27, 2015 16:25:55 GMT -5
Exactly Paige was a person in her own right you know not just a charmed one or half sister needed to rebuild the power of three which's why I didn't like her as much season 5 onward 'cause of the way she was written character wise. Shame. Yeah, Paige lost a lot of her identity when she quit her job and basically started living a 100% magical life. She basically severed all connections with her old family and friends (seeing as we never saw or heard from them again) and for what, a couple of selfish hags who treated her like crap, anyways. (Face it, Paige was pretty much carrying the Power of Three later on, with Piper and Phoebe being so occupied with their personal lives. ) I wonder where Paige would've ended up had she never met her sisters, like on the "Morality Bites" timeline? Did she keep her IQ and get further in life as a social worker? |
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Jun 27, 2015 23:47:20 GMT -5
I wonder where Paige would've ended up had she never met her sisters, like on the "Morality Bites" timeline? Did she keep her IQ and get further in life as a social worker? That would've been nice to see or written as a good story if not. |
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Post by tim66 on Jun 28, 2015 6:02:34 GMT -5
Paige really got a raw deal, character wise. I mean there is much more to it than just crossing "Prue" off the script and writing "Paige" in its place. You have to develop this new character and that takes time. Well, if that means pushing back or even dropping previously planned storylines, well, then that what you do, or SHOULD do.
I think the more blatant example of Paige getting screwed over was in the episode that bore her name, A Paige From The Past. This was supposed to be about Paige going back and reliving her final day with her adoptive parents. Yet 50% of the episode is given over to that rubbish possessed Phoebe and Cole plot. What should be a moving and emotional episode is ruined by the hijinks of "Frankie" and "Lulu" 
Now, as I understand it, A Paige From The Past was supposed to be a Christmas episode. However, the WB ordered, because of 9/11, all the Christmas stuff removed from the script (don't ask me why, the Frog network was not known for making logical decisions, no wonder they ultimately folded). So, they needed to replace it. However, instead of devoting more time to Paige and her adoptive parents, they decided to give us more Phoebe. Can't get enough of her, right
A Paige From The Past was SUPPOSED to be Paige's episode. It says something when she gets upstaged in her own episode. Thing just went downhill for Paige from that point on. |
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Post by BettyN on Jun 28, 2015 13:20:46 GMT -5
Paige really got a raw deal, character wise. I mean there is much more to it than just crossing "Prue" off the script and writing "Paige" in its place. You have to develop this new character and that takes time. Well, if that means pushing back or even dropping previously planned storylines, well, then that what you do, or SHOULD do.
I think the more blatant example of Paige getting screwed over was in the episode that bore her name, A Paige From The Past. This was supposed to be about Paige going back and reliving her final day with her adoptive parents. Yet 50% of the episode is given over to that rubbish possessed Phoebe and Cole plot. What should be a moving and emotional episode is ruined by the hijinks of "Frankie" and "Lulu"
Now, as I understand it, A Paige From The Past was supposed to be a Christmas episode. However, the WB ordered, because of 9/11, all the Christmas stuff removed from the script (don't ask me why, the Frog network was not known for making logical decisions, no wonder they ultimately folded). So, they needed to replace it. However, instead of devoting more time to Paige and her adoptive parents, they decided to give us more Phoebe. Can't get enough of her, right
A Paige From The Past was SUPPOSED to be Paige's episode. It says something when she gets upstaged in her own episode. Thing just went downhill for Paige from that point on. Ugh, I know. Paige was already upstaged enough by Phoebe and Cole in Season 4, but to have it happen to her in the episode that BORE HER NAME was just ridiculous. This is probably the biggest reason I wish the Dark Phoebe story HAD happened in Season 5. More of Season 4 could've been spent developing and fleshing out Paige. |
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Post by tim66 on Jun 28, 2015 23:27:26 GMT -5
Seems that there was almost an Orwellian doublethink going on in regards to Paige. Paige is a Halliwell, Paige has always been a Halliwell. The Matthews family, they never existed.
Yeah, Brad, I know you had this big Dark Phoebe arc planned and didn't want to scrap it. Well, perhaps you should have thought of that before you fired your lead star. However, once Paige was introduced, S4 should have been given over to introducing her and setting up her character. If that meant dropping the whole Dark Phoebe arc, so be it. And considering how the ratings sank like the Titanic during said arc, it would have been no great loss (the main complaints I heard at the time was that Charmed was becoming way too much like Buffy, and Brad Kern is no Joss Whedon).
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Post by BettyN on Jun 29, 2015 10:59:12 GMT -5
Yeah, Brad, I know you had this big Dark Phoebe arc planned and didn't want to scrap it. Well, perhaps you should have thought of that before you fired your lead star. However, once Paige was introduced, S4 should have been given over to introducing her and setting up her character. If that meant dropping the whole Dark Phoebe arc, so be it. And considering how the ratings sank like the Titanic during said arc, it would have been no great loss (the main complaints I heard at the time was that Charmed was becoming way too much like Buffy, and Brad Kern is no Joss Whedon).
Well, the ratings were already sinking before the arc began, but yeah, they didn't exactly go up until the last three episodes (mostly because people wanted to see the conclusion of the Dark Phoebe story). I think the second lowest-rated episode besides "A Paige From the Past" was "Bite Me," that awful vampire episode. Buffy Mark II clearly wasn't what the fans wanted. Unfortunately, Kern responded to those complaints by giving us fairytale crap and filler nonsense in Season 5. |
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Post by tim66 on Jun 29, 2015 12:30:26 GMT -5
If the fans wanted Buffy, they would have watched Buffy. This is Charmed, a totally different show. Too bad Kern forgot that.
Of the course, the reason he did that was because he used up the whole Dark Phoebe thing sooner than he originally intended.
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Post by aubreeryann on Oct 7, 2015 5:26:13 GMT -5
I am not upset that this story line did not happen! It would have played well into the sisters who happen to witches rather than witches who happen to be sisters that they focused on but would have made it a little soap oper-esque for me. Meaning it would have made for some good arguments with the sisters but there was plenty of those anyway. With that being said in my mind I think Page would have always been better off single and focusing on her craft. I was never fully happy with any of her boyfriends or her husband.
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Post by adzpower on Oct 7, 2015 9:45:38 GMT -5
I absolutely would have detested this storyline, to see one of the sisters fall in love with one of the other sisters lover would have been ridiculous, not only because Paige hated Cole, but also because it's completely out of character (the curse that runs through the whole second half of the show tbh), how could they have moved past that? It would have been catastrophic.
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Post by sol on Oct 7, 2015 10:28:00 GMT -5
Shannen in an interview released at the end of season 3 said tha Brad Kern had written a lot about Prue's character and the story should have been the triangle Prue Phoebe Cole
Of course they had to suppress this plot and write in a hurry the season 4
We criticize but I think the writers have made magic in those years: first, rewrite the season 4 and creates a story arc until season 5, then summarize the stories in a season because maybe the series will close, but Charmed goes on and then create and quickly write a new season......a nightmare!
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