Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?" Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
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Post by Esmeralda on Dec 19, 2014 16:59:13 GMT -5
I always said this. I think Elizabeth should've been featured in Season 4. She would be disgusted by Cole's relationship with Phoebe And would eventually be killed by Paige, this would exacerbate discord between Cole and Paige. Oh, that would've been *great* fun! Especially if she showed up while he was human - can you just imagine her reaction??? I wonder if we might have gotten something like that if Prue hadn't died. I can certainly see her doing that with that exacerbating discord between Cole and Prue - and more discord between Prue and Phoebe...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2014 17:29:12 GMT -5
I always said this. I think Elizabeth should've been featured in Season 4. She would be disgusted by Cole's relationship with Phoebe And would eventually be killed by Paige, this would exacerbate discord between Cole and Paige. Oh, that would've been *great* fun! Especially if she showed up while he was human - can you just imagine her reaction??? I wonder if we might have gotten something like that if Prue hadn't died. I can certainly see her doing that with that exacerbating discord between Cole and Prue - and more discord between Prue and Phoebe... Exactly what I had in mind, in fact I was thinking she would appear soon after 'Black as Cole', just before 'Charmed and Dangerous', and be mortified that her son is not only engaged to a Charmed One, but is now a human. They could've delved into the whole backstory of how Elizabeth killed Benjamin, perhaps because she had conceived a half-human/half-demon son with him and he was now surplus to requirement. You're right, such a plot would've worked brilliantly with Prue as well, especially because I think Shannen and Julian had wonderful on-screen chemistry. It would've worked well with Prue because it would bring old issues between her and Phoebe to the surface, and it would've worked well with Paige because it would tackle her feelings of being 'the outsider' and test her new sisterly relationship with Phoebe.
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Dec 20, 2014 5:05:52 GMT -5
I always said this. I think Elizabeth should've been featured in Season 4. She would be disgusted by Cole's relationship with Phoebe And would eventually be killed by Paige, this would exacerbate the discord between Cole and Paige. Or she could've been featured season 3 after Phoebe had that premonition of her taking Cole from Benjamin before killing him which would've been good especially with Cole trying to be good because of his love for Phoebe and Elizabeth hating that and her trying to keep them both apart etc because of it.
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?" Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Dec 20, 2014 7:58:39 GMT -5
Oh, that would've been *great* fun! Especially if she showed up while he was human - can you just imagine her reaction??? I wonder if we might have gotten something like that if Prue hadn't died. I can certainly see her doing that with that exacerbating discord between Cole and Prue - and more discord between Prue and Phoebe... Exactly what I had in mind, in fact I was thinking she would appear soon after 'Black as Cole', just before 'Charmed and Dangerous', and be mortified that her son is not only engaged to a Charmed One, but is now a human. They could've delved into the whole backstory of how Elizabeth killed Benjamin, perhaps because she had conceived a half-human/half-demon son with him and he was now surplus to requirement. You're right, such a plot would've worked brilliantly with Prue as well, especially because I think Shannen and Julian had wonderful on-screen chemistry. It would've worked well with Prue because it would bring old issues between her and Phoebe to the surface, and it would've worked well with Paige because it would tackle her feelings of being 'the outsider' and test her new sisterly relationship with Phoebe. So are you looking at it as if it was Piper who died, since you mention Prue and Phoebe and Paige but not her? I was thinking if it was the original three, since without having to use episodes to introduce Paige, there would've been more time to bring in Elizabeth and go into her background. Especially if the series had only gone four seasons (as I feel it should've), it would've set up a great way to end the series.
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Post by J-Train on Dec 20, 2014 9:10:40 GMT -5
Maybe Elizabeth fell in love with Cole's dad just like Cole did with Phoebe and that's why she didn't kill him then or else she just used Benjamin to give her a half demon/half human child to raise to eventually blend in with the human population and spread evil that way.
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Astral Alex
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Post by Astral Alex on Dec 20, 2014 12:08:26 GMT -5
Would be great to see some closure of this in the comics. I must really buy the big volumes, from what I hear the comics are brilliantly written and true the show the majority of fans wish the TV series would've been.
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Dec 22, 2014 0:40:33 GMT -5
Yeah . . . and why she had waited until Cole was three or four to kill him, and not sooner.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2015 22:20:05 GMT -5
Yeah . . . and why she had waited until Cole was three or four to kill him, and not sooner. Probably that once Cole had adequate exposure to a human parent she decided he was no longer needed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2015 22:21:45 GMT -5
Exactly what I had in mind, in fact I was thinking she would appear soon after 'Black as Cole', just before 'Charmed and Dangerous', and be mortified that her son is not only engaged to a Charmed One, but is now a human. They could've delved into the whole backstory of how Elizabeth killed Benjamin, perhaps because she had conceived a half-human/half-demon son with him and he was now surplus to requirement. You're right, such a plot would've worked brilliantly with Prue as well, especially because I think Shannen and Julian had wonderful on-screen chemistry. It would've worked well with Prue because it would bring old issues between her and Phoebe to the surface, and it would've worked well with Paige because it would tackle her feelings of being 'the outsider' and test her new sisterly relationship with Phoebe. So are you looking at it as if it was Piper who died, since you mention Prue and Phoebe and Paige but not her? I was thinking if it was the original three, since without having to use episodes to introduce Paige, there would've been more time to bring in Elizabeth and go into her background. Especially if the series had only gone four seasons (as I feel it should've), it would've set up a great way to end the series. Not exactly, although that would've worked as well - I just meant that it could've worked well with either Prue or Paige in the show.
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Feb 2, 2015 14:46:55 GMT -5
I always said this. I think Elizabeth should've been featured in Season 4. She would be disgusted by Cole's relationship with Phoebe And would eventually be killed by Paige, this would exacerbate the discord between Cole and Paige. Maybe she might've worked alongside the Seer secretly if she'd been around then regarding the baby storyline and everything and still hated Pheobe or otherwise been a top member of The Brotherhood say like on Raynor's level perhaps which Cole didn't know about or saw as we didn't spy all the members hey and we could've seen her inception into that and how the thorn wanted hybrids as members which some people like Elizabeth went out and did for them maybe although some people wouldn't agree with that probably.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2015 19:08:33 GMT -5
I always said this. I think Elizabeth should've been featured in Season 4. She would be disgusted by Cole's relationship with Phoebe And would eventually be killed by Paige, this would exacerbate the discord between Cole and Paige. Maybe she might've worked alongside the Seer secretly if she'd been around then regarding the baby storyline and everything and still hated Pheobe or otherwise been a top member of The Brotherhood say like on Raynor's level perhaps which Cole didn't know about or saw as we didn't spy all the members hey and we could've seen her inception into that and how the thorn wanted hybrids as members which some people like Elizabeth went out and did for them maybe although some people wouldn't agree with that probably. Certainly that could've worked. Great idea! After all Leo described the Brotherhood as an 'elite' gang, yet they looked like pretty generic demons to me. It would've been better if they were all half-human demons and thus, perfect for assimilation into human life. This would actually seem like something the BH would do as their goal IS to get a foothold in the human world (hence their attempt to take over Luxirom). And also, the darklighter, Alec, was from a group of DLs who were contracted to mate with humans to bred evil. So, it would be inkeeping with the Charmedverse fiction if the BH did this too. Elizabeth would be the reverse of Alec basically, which actually makes more sense as it is the mother who carries the child and (usually) raises it. Actually, didn't the Manticores also do something similar?
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Feb 5, 2015 14:56:53 GMT -5
Yeah . . . and why she had waited until Cole was three or four to kill him, and not sooner. Probably that once Cole had adequate exposure to a human parent she decided he was no longer needed. Why would Cole need "adequate exposure" to a human parent? Elizabeth could have quickly killed Benjamin and still allowed him to be exposed to humanity. Come to think of it, the personality and moral makeup of the demons seemed very similar to or the same as the personalities of humans. What would be the point of a time period for exposure to a human parent?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2015 15:46:34 GMT -5
Probably that once Cole had adequate exposure to a human parent she decided he was no longer needed. Why would Cole need "adequate exposure" to a human parent? Elizabeth could have quickly killed Benjamin and still allowed him to be exposed to humanity. Come to think of it, the personality and moral makeup of the demons seemed very similar to or the same as the personalities of humans. What would be the point of a time period for exposure to a human parent? In order for his humanity to develop, it would be important for him (even as a baby) to develop vital social interaction with humans. Demons may look like humans, but most of them can't comprehend emotions, social norms, human behaviour etc, which is why Belthazor was such a feared/respected demon, because he could understand and interpret humans, which allows him to manipulate them better than anyone else. Barbas, The Source (half-face) and Zankou recognised the importance of understanding the sisters as humans (their fears, desires, emotions etc) and they were amongst the COs most formidable enemies. Even the Triad's 'Billie and Christy plan' took this into consideration, which is why I think they kidnapped Christy (to train her and effectively raise her as a demon) whilst leaving Billie to form social bonds, so that she would be able to become friends/care for the COs in the future. Which ultimately produced the COs worst opponent - a normal girl.
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Mar 9, 2015 4:03:47 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but I don't buy this argument that demons can't barely handle emotions, social norms, or whatever that is supposed to mean . . . and humans can. Because as far as I have witnessed throughout my life, humanity can barely comprehend, let alone deal with their own emotions, behavior, etc. I think humans harbor a great deal of illusions about themselves. And these illusions tend to reflect in fantasy/science-fiction stories like "CHARMED" and "STAR TREK".
And the fact that Elizabeth (or whatever her name was) managed to woo and marry Benjamin Turner only tells me that she was familiar with human society.
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Post by lilchi7212 on Jul 26, 2015 14:59:52 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but I don't buy this argument that demons can't barely handle emotions, social norms, or whatever that is supposed to mean . . . and humans can. Because as far as I have witnessed throughout my life, humanity can barely comprehend, let alone deal with their own emotions, behavior, etc. I think humans harbor a great deal of illusions about themselves. And these illusions tend to reflect in fantasy/science-fiction stories like "CHARMED" and "STAR TREK". And the fact that Elizabeth (or whatever her name was) managed to woo and marry Benjamin Turner only tells me that she was familiar with human society. She may have come from human ancestry or something along those lines
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 17:35:23 GMT -5
The most likely answer is that most, if not all, demons started out as humans. When they joined the side of evil, they were brainwashed to remove their humanity.
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Post by aubreeryann on Oct 7, 2015 5:23:14 GMT -5
OMG I loooove these ideas you all have!!! this could have been amazing!!!! Maybe we will get it in the comic books! I remember when the show was airing wondering why Cole would make such a big deal out of wanting his dad's soul then they never going into more detail.
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Post by imdb lives on on Feb 10, 2017 21:36:20 GMT -5
Perfect way to expand his background
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?" Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Feb 10, 2017 21:45:17 GMT -5
*Sigh* And unfortunately, like most of Season 10, Pat Shand totally blew it, not mentioning Elizabeth at all and what he did to Cole and Ben (Cole's father) and Prue... *shudder*
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Post by Too Much Coffee on Sept 19, 2020 20:48:04 GMT -5
I'm surprised they didn't let Elizabeth be the leader of the Brotherhood of the Thorn or something or even in S4 if she had been in the Seer's place (although, I love the Seer, so I'm not sure I'd like it, since it would make it, even more, Cole centric that arc). I'm not the biggest Cole fan, but as others have suggested, imagining her reaction to Cole being human, and being engaged to Phoebe could have been fun to see. But, I get why we didn't, because of Prue dying, and needing to introduce Paige, they didn't have time to do the backstory on Elizabeth.
I'm sure someone could have fun with her in a fanfic.
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