The Fourth Power

[Deleted]

Hi all, I am resurrecting this old thread of mine to see if we can't get a proper discussion going. Whether as a reboot or an alternate Charmed, had there been four sisters, what do you think the 'fourth power' could've been?

Treating the sisters' powers as tools of battle, we can all pretty much agree that Prue's Telekinesis was 'offensive' (the attack), Piper's Freezing 'defensive' (the shield) and Phoebe's Premonitions 'instructive' (the intelligence gathering). For me, a fourth power would need to contribute something new to the sisterhood, to the collective. The balance between the powers would need to be maintained and so 'the fourth' could not fill the same role as one of these three 'tools'.

Naturally, the leads me to the Whitelighters' powers. If Whitelighters didn't exist in the series then perhaps Paige (the fourth sister) could've just had one of those powers as a witch. Keeping up with this 'battle' analogy of mine, perhaps a Teleportation power would constitute as 'strategic' (the manoeuvre/feint) or Healing could be 'restorative' (the recharge).   

However, I think teleporting or healing could get boring when used excessively, so there would have to be tighter restrictions on the than there were on the show. The problem is that another offensive power would overpower the sisters and powers like Forcefields would steal focus from Prue, Invisibility from Piper and Empathy from Phoebe.

I'm going to add a poll with some suggestions anyway, and would love to hear what everyone thinks. 

[Esmeralda]

Personally I still think everyone read that first announcement wrong - that the *original* series ended up being about four sisters, but the reboot will only be about three (and I hope it will *always* just be about three)

I hope their names don't start with a P, that their last name is not Halliwell or even Warren, and their powers are totally different than the ones we saw on the show - that's still the way I think it has the best chance of succeeding.

BUT if there *are* four sisters (and I pray that one is *NOT* half-whitelighter - I hope whitelighter is a word we never hear - I hope they're all full sisters), I hope their powers are wiccan based - Earth, Water, Air and Fire - and their birthdays aren't the same as the Halliwells but instead reflect that.

[Esmeralda]

A bit off-topic, but since we're talking reboot again, I decided to bring back an older post of mine, which is *still* the way I feel about the reboot adapted by what I wrote in my previous post.

First, here's the post I replied to:

Oct 30, 2013 9:59:36 GMT -5 Astral Echo said:

Having had time to process the idea of four sisters, I'm less put off by the idea because really at the end of the day it's just a number. Three or four makes no difference, neither does the Po3 or the Po4 because this isn't connected in anyway to the show. As long as they play this smartly, for example two sisters can't share the same power, it will be fine as long as they still stick to the shows core values: family and sisterhood.

And here's my reply:

Oct 30, 2013 10:28:25 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

I'll agree with that as long as all four sisters are full sisters. To have one be a half-sister and still be Charmed when all three of the full sisters are still alive makes no sense, the way it made no sense in C:RR, one of the reasons you changed it.

I've had my own chance to think about it.

I'd still prefer a TV movie with the originals, but if we get stuck with the reboot, I'm hoping that they start with the three original powers (with Paige only having a single whitelighter power, that to orb, since she wouldn't be Charmed and since she would be the daughter of a whitelighter, not a whitelighter herself, since she's still alive) and none of them ever get any more, unless one of the Charmed Ones die. They don't need any more and they're all too expensive for a TV series.

I wouldn't mind Piper's power be the ability to freeze molecules, since it was that and not freezing time, but no way I want her to get her explosion power, ever. It made her too powerful and meant she could vanquish demons without needing her sisters.

If one of the Charmed Ones dies, I'd want Paige to keep her orbing but also gets that sister's power which would work *exactly* the way it did with her half-sister, none of this whitelighter-affected crap just to make the original power "new and fresh" - translation: jump the shark.

I hope they leave Andy, Darryl, Leo, Rex, Hannah, Claire, little Melinda, Dan, Jenny, Bane, Cole, Elise, the Source of All Evil, the Seer, Jason, Glenn, Wyatt, Chris, Bianca, Richard, Leslie, Brody, Drake, Zankou, Dex, Billie, Christy, Dumain, Henry and Coop out of it - giving them different boyfriends, allies, enemies and kids is what would make the show different from the original - and that Prue isn't the one who dies, or if she does, she's allowed to come back as a ghost right away and appear as often as Grams did in the original. That's would make it different than the original while still staying close.

I hope the producers come up with rules for their powers and for their witchcraft and time travel and make it consistent throughout the rest of it.

I hope that death means something - that ghosts are only corporeal for very special reasons (like weddings or wiccanings or funerals) and that if any of the Charmed Ones die they stay dead. (Yes, Piper - I mean you!)

I hope they know about their powers at the beginning, because Nicholas never existed, that Victor was killed by a demon before Patty and Sam had their affair and that Patty (played by Holly Marie Combs...) and Sam (who are both part of the family - no Grams except as the Wiccan High Priestess, which the sisters knew about), raised them to know how to use their powers - which they had from birth and never had bound - properly. I hope that personal gain truly means "Harm none, do what ye will", so they are allowed to have fun with it without being able to harm others. I do hope that they decide to either use the motto "The wrong thing done for the right reason is still the wrong thing" (Morality Bites) or "Ends justify the means" (Hyde School Reunion) and stick to it.

I hope that because Patty is still alive, Prue didn't have to take care of her sisters or give up on her dream, etc. etc. It will make her less of a Mary Sue. I hope that Piper doesn't constantly whine about a normal life. I hope that Phoebe doesn't mistake sex for love. I hope that Paige is actually given a personality that's consistent throughout the series. And because Sam is part of the family, I hope a second whitelighter is never needed and we never see his bosses...

I hope there are just as many non-magicals who are evil as there are demons, warlocks, etc. And, *sigh* Just because it appears that nowaday you have to have it this way in order to be popular, I would want everyone, Halliwells included, to be morally grey. Personally I would prefer the good to be good and the evil to be evil and never the twain meet, but nowaday people won't accept shows that feature such characters - being good is boring, even if morally-grey sisters is what would get me to stop watching. *sigh*

Do those and whatever they come up with, it will be different and still much better than the original.

ETA: Almost forgot the most important one of all - that there is *ONE* Big Bad, who is as smart as the sisters and is just as morally grey as the sisters and who we do not find out *is* the Big Bad until the very last season.  Hopefully that ONE person is Paige!

ETA #2: OOOPS! OH, MY BAD!!! Forgot the truly most important one of all - that it's a series about four sisters who happen to be witches, and not four demon-hunters who happen to live in the same house or one witch who doesn't want to be a witch but wants a normal life but then ends up marrying the most unnormal guy possible - he's already dead - but who isn't happy until she turns an angel into her own little errand boy. Oh, yeah, didn't she have three sisters and didn't they have powers, too? I'd prefer Prue and Her Sisters over that.

[Deleted]

Aug 9, 2014 22:59:30 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

Personally I still think everyone read that first announcement wrong - that the *original* series ended up being about four sisters, but the reboot will only be about three (and I hope it will *always* just be about three)

I hope their names don't start with a P, that their last name is not Halliwell or even Warren, and their powers are totally different than the ones we saw on the show - that's still the way I think it has the best chance of succeeding.

BUT if there *are* four sisters (and I pray that one is *NOT* half-whitelighter - I hope whitelighter is a word we never hear - I hope they're all full sisters), I hope their powers are wiccan based - Earth, Water, Air and Fire - and their birthdays aren't the same as the Halliwells but instead reflect that.

Agreed. No 'P' tradition. In fact, I don't want any letter name tradition this time. It would feel cheesy and derivative to do that again. Just give them their own names this time. 

For me, I'd love them to make a bigger deal of their heritage and ancestry this time around. As the Triquetra, and most Wiccan symbols, are Celtic in origin, I'd love the new sisters to be or Irish or Scottish descent and their family symbol would be a four-pointed Celtic knot. Although I'd keep the 'Melinda' character as the start of witch line, It would be interesting if Melinda mentioned that the family symbol originated all the way from the 'homeland' - which would be a foreshadowing of the Power of Four. However, saying that, I never want them to use the word 'Wicca' as they did halfheartedly in Season One and, more or less, dropped for the rest of the series. Just refer to it as 'the craft' or witchcraft. Personally, I wouldn't like element powers because I find that boring. I mean, Flight and Telekinesis could pass as 'air powers' and fire power is obvious but what real use are water and earth powers?

I do, however, like your idea of having their birthdays be more significant. I'd like one born in every season, with a power that represents the season maybe. For example, Pyrokinesis could represent Summer, Freezing or Ice powers for the Winter, Telekinesis or Flight in the Autumn/Fall and I'm not sure about Spring, perhaps Healing or Super Strength. Those are just rough ideas.



 

[cyma]

Aug 9, 2014 18:23:16 GMT -5 @deano said:

So, if they keep the sisters powers the same and we do indeed get a sisterly quartet, what would you like "Paige's" power to be? Would you give her an non-orb form of teleportation? or her telekinetic-orbing power? Or perhaps one of her secondary powers, like healing or glamouring? 

Seeing every bad guy, not to mention Prue has telekinesis, I’ll choose the TK orbing one for Paige. But what I really want writers is to get sort of creative with Paige. If Cole could go into Belthazor mode gain enhanced strength and what not, but at the risk of losing control of his humanity, then have something similar for Paige. Going into angel mode to get access to all or one of her whitelighter powers makes her become more of a whitelighter and less like a normal human being. Sure being an angel doesn’t seem like a bad thing. But if the angels have to move one and literally forget their families and any connections and become these peaceful beings, Paige wouldn’t risk using her whitelighters powers all the time if it means slowly forgetting her life and family. Only in dire circumstances. Therefore less orbing and thus teleporatation wouldn’t get boring. And less costly.

Personally, I think teleportation would get boring, as it did on the real show. And healing should stay a Whitelighter power (that is if we get them in the reboot). Perhaps, invisibility would be good for one of them, although it may be too similar to freezing. Or phasing maybe?

Even though I love X-men, a witch having phasing or invisibility as powers makes it too…sci-fi. I would prefer a ghost or an astral form going through walls and turning invisible than a living witch or whitelighter. Unless that witch is invisible or going through walls as a consequence of a spell, but as an active power? Honestly no. I don’t like it.

Also, would you keep the power order the same, or change it up? Sometimes I wonder if Prue would suit premonition power.

Nope. Those powers suit them according to their personalities. So I don’t want a swap. Unless its through an accidental spell.

[cyma]

Aug 9, 2014 22:59:30 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

I hope their names don't start with a P, that their last name is not Halliwell or even Warren, and their powers are totally different than the ones we saw on the show - that's still the way I think it has the best chance of succeeding.

Changing names is the best chance a reboot can indeed succeed. Perhaps we should change Clark Kent’s name to Mark Mint, Peter Parker to Keeter Karker and Kirk to Perk in the next, Superman, Spiderman and Star Trek reboot so that we won't find ourselves comparing the actors  

Besides Chris, Wyatt and Melinda, I don't care what the other kids will be named because they only had cameos in the original series. Break the P tradition for their names. But changing the names of the sisters or Halliwells or Warrens? No. Absolutely no. Change their jobs, change the location…change their hairstyle, but don’t change Prue, Piper, Phoebe and Paige into, Tru, Minnie, Kiki and Raine 

[Esmeralda]

I will admit that you have the point regarding the comics, but that's the difference - they started out as comics, had been around for decades and those are what they're based on, and if they're too different from the comics (like not putting Clark together with Lana or Lois) and you get upset fans. That's not the situation for TV shows, when it's too easy to compare the two with the original coming on top, especially when it hasn't even been ten years since the show ended.

Stupid names like you suggested, of course not, but different names that don't all start with the same letter...(or as Astral suggested, if they were all Warrens whose first names start with M - I'd love it to be proven that *these* are the *real* Charmed Ones, since the Charmed Ones are of the Halliwell line, not the Warren one, despite what Melinda Warren saw...) - that would make it so much easier for the reboot to succeed. Already I see people writing that they can't imagine anyone else playing Prue. I'm sure the same is true for the rest.

[Deleted]

Aug 10, 2014 13:49:35 GMT -5 cyma said:

Seeing every bad guy, not to mention Prue has telekinesis, I’ll choose the TK orbing one for Paige. But what I really want writers is to get sort of creative with Paige. If Cole could go into Belthazor mode gain enhanced strength and what not, but at the risk of losing control of his humanity, then have something similar for Paige. Going into angel mode to get access to all or one of her whitelighter powers makes her become more of a whitelighter and less like a normal human being. Sure being an angel doesn’t seem like a bad thing. But if the angels have to move one and literally forget their families and any connections and become these peaceful beings, Paige wouldn’t risk using her whitelighters powers all the time if it means slowly forgetting her life and family. Only in dire circumstances. Therefore less orbing and thus teleporatation wouldn’t get boring. And less costly.

So true about the TK, it was far too common. 

Even though I love X-men, a witch having phasing or invisibility as powers makes it too…sci-fi. I would prefer a ghost or an astral form going through walls and turning invisible than a living witch or whitelighter. Unless that witch is invisible or going through walls as a consequence of a spell, but as an active power? Honestly no. I don’t like it.

But there was a witch in S5 that had invisibility and whitelighters can 'cloak' innocents, so I don't agree. I get that phasing is a bit ghost-like but I think virtually any power could be too sci-fi, like telepathy and levitation. 

[Deleted]

How about fire power for one of the sisters? Along with TK, freezing and premonitions.

[Deleted]

bump - please see OP. 

[sol]

Dec 9, 2015 19:16:03 GMT -5 @deano said:

bump - please see OP. 

Please, Deano, what is OP?

[sol]

Aug 10, 2014 12:42:13 GMT -5 @deano said:

Aug 9, 2014 22:59:30 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

Personally I still think everyone read that first announcement wrong - that the *original* series ended up being about four sisters, but the reboot will only be about three (and I hope it will *always* just be about three)

I hope their names don't start with a P, that their last name is not Halliwell or even Warren, and their powers are totally different than the ones we saw on the show - that's still the way I think it has the best chance of succeeding.

BUT if there *are* four sisters (and I pray that one is *NOT* half-whitelighter - I hope whitelighter is a word we never hear - I hope they're all full sisters), I hope their powers are wiccan based - Earth, Water, Air and Fire - and their birthdays aren't the same as the Halliwells but instead reflect that.

Agreed. No 'P' tradition. In fact, I don't want any letter name tradition this time. It would feel cheesy and derivative to do that again. Just give them their own names this time. 

For me, I'd love them to make a bigger deal of their heritage and ancestry this time around. As the Triquetra, and most Wiccan symbols, are Celtic in origin, I'd love the new sisters to be or Irish or Scottish descent and their family symbol would be a four-pointed Celtic knot. Although I'd keep the 'Melinda' character as the start of witch line, It would be interesting if Melinda mentioned that the family symbol originated all the way from the 'homeland' - which would be a foreshadowing of the Power of Four. However, saying that, I never want them to use the word 'Wicca' as they did halfheartedly in Season One and, more or less, dropped for the rest of the series. Just refer to it as 'the craft' or witchcraft. Personally, I wouldn't like element powers because I find that boring. I mean, Flight and Telekinesis could pass as 'air powers' and fire power is obvious but what real use are water and earth powers?

I do, however, like your idea of having their birthdays be more significant. I'd like one born in every season, with a power that represents the season maybe. For example, Pyrokinesis could represent Summer, Freezing or Ice powers for the Winter, Telekinesis or Flight in the Autumn/Fall and I'm not sure about Spring, perhaps Healing or Super Strength. Those are just rough ideas.



 

Sorry, Deano, the Triquetra is an ancient symbol: for  the Celts it symbolized the triple goddess, but it was common in ancient Crete -  Minosse's age- first as a symbol of the sun, after the symbol of Athena - justice, science and warrior art-

As Triscele, is represented on the coins of the Greek colony of Syracuse, III century BC, currently it is the symbol of the Region of Sicily, it's  uncertain whether represents Medusa or the winged goddess of time and fertility

A my former boyfriend gave me the sweatshirt of his university,  Bordeaux university: it is dark red with a big Triquetra in the  center
He told me that the Triquetra represents both the symmetry of mathematics - the figure is substantially symmetrical, invariant under rotations of 120 degrees - and  the unity of all the combination of the three Pythagoreans elements


It was also used by early Christians

The Triquetra symbolizes the magic number of the Pythagoreans, the Three :it may be the Moon in its phases,or the triple goddess of the Celts originated by the three goddesses of the Greek Pantheon or the three phases of the sun every day, it is always the number three


Then the Triquetra never could be the symbol of four sisters, four sisters'ld never symbolize the magic number par excellence, it'ld not make sense

Only three sisters, only three powers

[Deleted]

Dec 10, 2015 3:59:50 GMT -5 sol said:

Dec 9, 2015 19:16:03 GMT -5 @deano said:

bump - please see OP. 

Please, Deano, what is OP?

Original Post Please see my original post.

[Deleted]

Dec 10, 2015 4:30:52 GMT -5 sol said:

Sorry, Deano, the Triquetra is an ancient symbol: for  the Celts it symbolized the triple goddess, but it was common in ancient Crete -  Minosse's age- first as a symbol of the sun, after the symbol of Athena - justice, science and warrior art-

As Triscele, is represented on the coins of the Greek colony of Syracuse, III century BC, currently it is the symbol of the Region of Sicily, it's  uncertain whether represents Medusa or the winged goddess of time and fertility

A my former boyfriend gave me the sweatshirt of his university,  Bordeaux university: it is dark red with a big Triquetra in the  center
He told me that the Triquetra represents both the symmetry of mathematics - the figure is substantially symmetrical, invariant under rotations of 120 degrees - and  the unity of all the combination of the three Pythagoreans elements

It was also used by early Christians

The Triquetra symbolizes the magic number of the Pythagoreans, the Three :it may be the Moon in its phases,or the triple goddess of the Celts originated by the three goddesses of the Greek Pantheon or the three phases of the sun every day, it is always the number three


Then the Triquetra never could be the symbol of four sisters, four sisters'ld never symbolize the magic number par excellence, it'ld not make sense

Only three sisters, only three powers

Interesting points, Sol. Of course I agree that the Triquetra couldn't be used, but instead a four-pointed Celtic knot, of which there are plenty, such as these.



I assume they represent much of what the Triquetra does, but obviously with four points/forces. Also, there is the 'four elements of nature' mythology, which is commonly associated with witchcraft.

Anway, if there WERE four sisters, what power would you give the fourth sister.

[Nimue]

I said Invisibility. It can be used for spying, gathering information, and if there's an innocent to save, the sister that has this power can save that innocent while the others fight against demons, warlocks, or any other bad guy. Plus it doesn't make the sisters too powerful.

[Deleted]

I'd go with either invisibility, teleportation, or astral projection.

One sister should be able to get close enough for the kill without being detected. When they needed Belthazor's flesh for a vanquishing potion, one of those three abilities would've come in handy.
 
I was gonna sat force field but then I realized Prue and Piper's powers can already deflect enemy attacks.

[sol]

Four sisters, two sisters, two sisters, would be trivial, three is the magic number of power!

However, the fourth sister should have the gift of healing: the action'ld touch the other three, she, possibly the youngest, would save lives and heal wounds

[Deleted]

Dec 10, 2015 10:27:34 GMT -5 sol said:

Four sisters, two sisters, two sisters, would be trivial, three is the magic number of power!

However, the fourth sister should have the gift of healing: the action'ld touch the other three, she, possibly the youngest, would save lives and heal wounds

So are 4 and 5 arguably. Hence 'the four elements' and the significance of the Pentagram. Anyway that wasn't even the question.

I agree that healing could've been a good fourth power although it could also overpower the sisters.

[Nimue]

Dec 10, 2015 14:38:58 GMT -5 @deano said:

Dec 10, 2015 10:27:34 GMT -5 sol said:

Four sisters, two sisters, two sisters, would be trivial, three is the magic number of power!

However, the fourth sister should have the gift of healing: the action'ld touch the other three, she, possibly the youngest, would save lives and heal wounds

So are 4 and 5 arguably. Hence 'the four elements' and the significance of the Pentagram. Anyway that wasn't even the question.

I agree that healing could've been a good fourth power although it could also overpower the sisters.

What do you mean, overpower them? All they could do with that is heal others and maybe themselves, I hardly call that powerful. 

[Deleted]

Dec 10, 2015 7:38:46 GMT -5 Nimue said:

I said Invisibility. It can be used for spying, gathering information, and if there's an innocent to save, the sister that has this power can save that innocent while the others fight against demons, warlocks, or any other bad guy. Plus it doesn't make the sisters too powerful.

True, although most of that could also be achieved with Piper's freezing power, which puts me off invisibility a bit. Still a cool power though.