Do you think Phoebe & Cole's unborn baby survived?

[Deleted]

I've never written fan-fiction but I was tempted to write one about him. I don't know what it is but this unseen character fascinated me.

It's not like it was his fault he was evil. The Seer's tonic made him that way.

I just can't get behind such a powerful character being did away with so easily. He even vanquished an unvanquishable demon, FROM THE WOMB!!!!

I don't even think Wyatt accomplished such a feat.

You'd think Phoebe, Cole, or even Piper & Paige would've shown some remorse over the loss of their son/nephew.

[Deleted]

I think they found it easier to accept once it was made clear that the baby wasn't really Phoebe and Cole's, but the Source's and the Seer's.

[Melinda Halliwell]

I agree there yeah.

[sol]

Phoebe as always never talked of her unborn baby but this doesm't mean that she didn't suffert
With Prue's loss also she didn't utter a word, Piper found her hugging her sister's jacket as she'll never speak of Cole or Chris

Phoebe feels the emotions of the others, but is silent about hers

The only sign of suffering that Phoebe discloses was during the first months of Wyatt's life, when it was impossible for her to move away from the baby

Only Piper'll bring up the subject after years, with Cole

The Halliwell sisters rarely speak of their painful feelings

[ljones]

I think they found it easier to accept once it was made clear that the baby wasn't really Phoebe and Cole's, but the Source's and the Seer's.

I don't buy that. Yes, the Seer and the Source plotted to get Phoebe pregnant, using Cole's body. But physically, the baby was Phoebe and Cole's.

[West]

Oct 26, 2015 10:12:56 GMT -5 sol said:

Phoebe as always never talked of her unborn baby but this doesm't mean that she didn't suffert
With Prue's loss also she didn't utter a word, Piper found her hugging her sister's jacket as she'll never speak of Cole or Chris

Phoebe feels the emotions of the others, but is silent about hers

The only sign of suffering that Phoebe discloses was during the first months of Wyatt's life, when it was impossible for her to move away from the baby

Only Piper'll bring up the subject after years, with Cole

The Halliwell sisters rarely speak of their painful feelings

The original script for Long Live The Queen dealt way more on Phoebe and her unborn baby, but they cut all that material out of course since season 4 was rushed, and they were uncertain if it would continue past season 4.

But yeah, it was never brought up after season 4 anyways. Another reason I hated the arc. I wished they went the original plan, season 5 being focused on her unborn baby arc and Cole's vanquish in the 100th episode was long live the queen (we can avoid the terrible season 5 Cole arc), and moving Piper's first pregnancy and child to season 6.

[Sadrick]

Even if the child was biologically similar to Cole and Phoebe, that doesn't take away from the fact that its soul was the Source. Or it would be more accurate to say that it's a derivative of the Source.

[sol]

I thnk tha the baby was the real son of Phoebe and Cole, intoxicate by Seer's evil poison

[Deleted]

The Seer basically actioned the baby's conception in 'The Fifthwheel' by mixing a potion to "override any preventive measures [Phoebe] may have taken" which could also suggest that Phoebe wasn't even ovulating at that time, but that the Seer and the Source needed her to be impregnated during the Full Moon to ensure their Evil spell/potion was enacted. Also, Phoebe mentioned in 'Womb Raider' that the baby was trying to take control of her, and that it wasn't 'her or Cole' but the Source. Later in that episode, the Seer as much as confirmed this when she transferred the baby to her womb and said the baby had never been Phoebe's, she was basically just the surrogate.

[Esmeralda]

Oct 28, 2015 17:05:55 GMT -5 sol said:

I thnk tha the baby was the real son of Phoebe and Cole, intoxicate by Seer's evil poison

I agree. Had she not drank the potion of pure evil, the child would not have been, but would've had the choice to be either good or evil. It was definitely Phoebe's egg impregnated by Cole's sperm. What the Seer meant by it never being their child is that she manipulated it so that she'd be able to take it into her womb and therefore become "her" child. She was the surrogate, not Phoebe.

And the potion was what turned it evil, not the chocolate. The chocolate just allowed Phoebe to become pregnant by the Source aka Cole (one and the same..).

One of my all-time favorite fics, "Carry On, My Wayward Son", written right after Season Five was over, showed that Chris was actually the Phoetus - he was Phoebe's and Cole's son, not Piper and Leo's.

How I wish!

[West]

Oct 28, 2015 18:42:09 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

Oct 28, 2015 17:05:55 GMT -5 sol said:

I thnk tha the baby was the real son of Phoebe and Cole, intoxicate by Seer's evil poison

I agree. Had she not drank the potion of pure evil, the child would not have been, but would've had the choice to be either good or evil. It was definitely Phoebe's egg impregnated by Cole's sperm. What the Seer meant by it never being their child is that she manipulated it so that she'd be able to take it into her womb and therefore become "her" child. She was the surrogate, not Phoebe.

And the potion was what turned it evil, not the chocolate. The chocolate just allowed Phoebe to become pregnant by the Source aka Cole (one and the same..).

One of my all-time favorite fics, "Carry On, My Wayward Son", written right after Season Five was over, showed that Chris was actually the Phoetus - he was Phoebe's and Cole's son, not Piper and Leo's.

How I wish!

I would of liked that, especially if the child simply had the choice to be either good or evil. Maybe Cole could be dead, and its a single Phoebe dealing with the baby. A great storyline for her going forward, and no finding love, no love interests or that little kid in her vision.

Even if they had done that, Piper still has her baby in season 6, when Holly is pregnant.

If we had to have a baby and child story, I prefer the Phoebe/Cole one dealt with, and Piper's child not happening until the last season.

But Chris being Phoebe's child I would of loved that over Piper and Leo. It would save us from so much of Phoebe's storylines in the later seasons.

[Esmeralda]

No, by this point Wyatt was already born - he's part of the story, but there's no future Wyatt who's part of the story. They'd have to do with Holly what they did in Season 8 when she was pregnant again - hide it. Or let her have Prudence Melinda as a second child rather than a boy.

For those interested: www.fanfiction.net/s/1350969/1/Carry-On-My-Wayward-Son Yeah, I spoiled it by telling you that Chris is the Phoetus, but it's still a great story, especially for Cole-fans.

[West]

Oct 29, 2015 7:37:06 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

No, by this point Wyatt was already born - he's part of the story, but there's no future Wyatt who's part of the story. They'd have to do with Holly what they did in Season 8 when she was pregnant again - hide it. Or let her have Prudence Melinda as a second child rather than a boy.

For those interested: www.fanfiction.net/s/1350969/1/Carry-On-My-Wayward-Son Yeah, I spoiled it by telling you that Chris is the Phoetus, but it's still a great story, especially for Cole-fans.

Sorry my mistake, I misread that, and your right.

I was thinking more along the lines of the original season 4 and 5 plan, where the cole arc as the source is moved to season 5 with Phoebe and Cole's son. With Piper still not having a child and it being delayed a season till season 6. My mistake.

[sol]

I'ld like if Phoebe was able to save the baby, she'ld be a good single mom

Without Seer's poison baby Halliwell-Turner'ld be only a beautiful baby, with a mix of the powers of his parents, but I feel considente that if Phoebe brought the pregnancy to term, she and her sisters'ld find the way to neutralize the effects of the potion

[Deleted]

Oct 28, 2015 18:42:09 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

One of my all-time favorite fics, "Carry On, My Wayward Son", written right after Season Five was over, showed that Chris was actually the Phoetus - he was Phoebe's and Cole's son, not Piper and Leo's.

How I wish!

Now THAT would've been much more interesting, especially as Chris would be born expected to be 'the Future of All Evil' and Wyatt as 'His Royal Highness, the Twice-Blessed King Wyatt, Master of Excalibur' but in actual fact the reverse would be true and Chris would come back and use his 'Evil' powers to stop Wyatt enacting his 'Utopia'. Such a storyline would reinforce the notion that one is Good/Evil by choice, not by birthright. It would be such an interesting dichotomy. 

[Esmeralda]

Nov 1, 2015 0:45:37 GMT -5 @deano said:

Oct 28, 2015 18:42:09 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

One of my all-time favorite fics, "Carry On, My Wayward Son", written right after Season Five was over, showed that Chris was actually the Phoetus - he was Phoebe's and Cole's son, not Piper and Leo's.

How I wish!

Now THAT would've been much more interesting, especially as Chris would be born expected to be 'the Future of All Evil' and Wyatt as 'His Royal Highness, the Twice-Blessed King Wyatt, Master of Excalibur' but in actual fact the reverse would be true and Chris would come back and use his 'Evil' powers to stop Wyatt enacting his 'Utopia'. Such a storyline would reinforce the notion that one is Good/Evil by choice, not by birthright. It would be such an interesting dichotomy. 

That it would. The only reason it probably would've never worked is that in that story, Cole's the one who stars, and, of course, he was long gone by then. Although if they'd wanted to use something like that before Julian got his part in "Nip Tuck", who knows? He might have been on the series longer...

[yinsoul]

Nov 1, 2015 0:45:37 GMT -5 @deano said:

Oct 28, 2015 18:42:09 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

One of my all-time favorite fics, "Carry On, My Wayward Son", written right after Season Five was over, showed that Chris was actually the Phoetus - he was Phoebe's and Cole's son, not Piper and Leo's.

How I wish!

Now THAT would've been much more interesting, especially as Chris would be born expected to be 'the Future of All Evil' and Wyatt as 'His Royal Highness, the Twice-Blessed King Wyatt, Master of Excalibur' but in actual fact the reverse would be true and Chris would come back and use his 'Evil' powers to stop Wyatt enacting his 'Utopia'. Such a storyline would reinforce the notion that one is Good/Evil by choice, not by birthright. It would be such an interesting dichotomy. 

I would have loved, loved this!

Most supernatural drama makes it a point that its the choices that make a person good or evil and theres a lot of murk between.  Piper says it to Tyler, even, in the Firestarter episode. Charmed was a bit odd in 'inherently evil' powers, especially haveing to do with fire. Fire is dangerous and hurts people very easily, but it also shapes our tools and gives us warmth. Its just an element, like the others.

More to the topic, IMO a son of Phoebe and Cole would work very hard at trying to subvert the expectations thrown in his direction. His family, and his mother especially, would be very ready and quick to help him and guide him and keep him on that straight and narrow, helping him to grow to be responsible with his powers.

In the meantime, there's the prophecized child, the future King, blessed by forces of supposedly great good. Who's watching him? I can see it being taken for granted that he would grow to be a good person, that he wouldn't see the corruption going on around him and decide to flip the chessboard. Incidents of him misusing his power as a small child get waved off as childish impishness while the same thing with Chris might get looked at more closely. And then it keeps happening, and perhaps there's some talkings-to, and he nods along and makes promises while keeping his own council. Then eventually, ultimately he's too strong for any of them. And then its too late.

[Deleted]

Nov 1, 2015 9:08:24 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

That it would. The only reason it probably would've never worked is that in that story, Cole's the one who stars, and, of course, he was long gone by then. Although if they'd wanted to use something like that before Julian got his part in "Nip Tuck", who knows? He might have been on the series longer...

Indeed, it would've had to be moved forward to Season 5, which would've been fine by me. Perhaps a time jump between S4 and S5 (of about 6 months) would've been a good idea, in order to speed along Piper's pregnancy and Chris' arrival - as he comes back to stop Wyatt being kidnapped at birth (or something similar). I imagine Phoetus-Chris coming to Cole first in a reworked Season 5, much like Bacarra did, as he could not have posed as a Whitelighter for the sisters.  

[Deleted]

Nov 1, 2015 11:44:06 GMT -5 yinsoul said:

I would have loved, loved this!

Most supernatural drama makes it a point that its the choices that make a person good or evil and theres a lot of murk between.  Piper says it to Tyler, even, in the Firestarter episode. Charmed was a bit odd in 'inherently evil' powers, especially haveing to do with fire. Fire is dangerous and hurts people very easily, but it also shapes our tools and gives us warmth. Its just an element, like the others.

More to the topic, IMO a son of Phoebe and Cole would work very hard at trying to subvert the expectations thrown in his direction. His family, and his mother especially, would be very ready and quick to help him and guide him and keep him on that straight and narrow, helping him to grow to be responsible with his powers.

In the meantime, there's the prophecized child, the future King, blessed by forces of supposedly great good. Who's watching him? I can see it being taken for granted that he would grow to be a good person, that he wouldn't see the corruption going on around him and decide to flip the chessboard. Incidents of him misusing his power as a small child get waved off as childish impishness while the same thing with Chris might get looked at more closely. And then it keeps happening, and perhaps there's some talkings-to, and he nods along and makes promises while keeping his own council. Then eventually, ultimately he's too strong for any of them. And then its too late.

I know, I hated how simplistically Good and Evil were portrayed on Charmed sometimes, especially with regards to magical powers. Had a storyline such as this actually happened it would've been really interesting because Chris would grow up being constantly monitored and treated by his embittered mother in a "you're just like your father" approach. Whereas King Wyatt would automatically be assumed Good, as you say, and no one would notice his growing thirst for power. As teenagers, Chris would be blamed for all of Wyatt's magical mishaps, leading all the way up to Wyatt's Dark Utopia, where he would eradict Good and Evil altogether and only Power would exist. 

[Esmeralda]

Nov 1, 2015 14:47:08 GMT -5 @deano said:

Nov 1, 2015 9:08:24 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

That it would. The only reason it probably would've never worked is that in that story, Cole's the one who stars, and, of course, he was long gone by then. Although if they'd wanted to use something like that before Julian got his part in "Nip Tuck", who knows? He might have been on the series longer...

Indeed, it would've had to be moved forward to Season 5, which would've been fine by me. Perhaps a time jump between S4 and S5 (of about 6 months) would've been a good idea, in order to speed along Piper's pregnancy and Chris' arrival - as he comes back to stop Wyatt being kidnapped at birth (or something similar). I imagine Phoetus-Chris coming to Cole first in a reworked Season 5, much like Bacarra did, as he could not have posed as a Whitelighter for the sisters.  

That could work, but I like the way the story does it better - in it, there's no need to stop Wyatt - Wyatt isn't evil. Instead Phoetus-Chris wants revenge on Phoebe for letting him die and sending him to the Wasteland where he was for 20 years before he figured out how to get out...

You can tell the author wanted Cole to have a better ending than "Centennial Charmed" - which I can't see Brad Kern ever doing...but the author also found a fantastically great way to bring him back...but I'll leave that for people who read the story...just say it would've been *so* much better than Valhalley of the Dolls!