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Post by jdpm1991 on Dec 6, 2015 8:59:02 GMT -5
Yes Constance created the show, but am I the only one who thinks some fans put Constance M. Burge on a pedestal? I mean the whiny tales of Piper Halliwell were still happening while Constance was still around since the beginning of Season 2. So why is Brad Kern the scapegoat here?
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Nimue
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Post by Nimue on Dec 6, 2015 9:20:57 GMT -5
Probably because Brad Kern was around for a lot longer, and also because seasons 5-8 are really, really bad, and the sisters became really horrible people. But I agree, Constance Burge is really put on a pedestal. Too much, even. The show changed too much after she left, and not in a good way. Of course, there's no way of knowing what would have happened if she had stayed, whether or not the show would have been better.
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Post by val1993 on Dec 6, 2015 9:59:05 GMT -5
They certainly do. From what I've read it seems that fans think Connie was a victim of the Powers to Be, and Brad was the Big Bad who had ruined Charmed. I think the key to the Charmed success was the balance - balance between Connie who wanted the show to be more about sisterhood and Brad who apparently wanted it to enhance to the point where we could see other plot twists that just the demon of the day. If it wasn't for Brad, the show wouldn't have last for long and its quality would be questionable. I mean, Connie's basic concept (three sisters, no Big Bad, new demon each week, no permanent boyfriends) is best fulfilled in Season 2, and it couldn't last for long, because there were no development for the characters (and the rating were much lower too). So my point is that it would be better to keep both Connie and Brad in charge/
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2015 10:14:51 GMT -5
As far as I know, Constance Burge has never revealed just what happened. Her own show was essentially taken away from her.
Yeah, she became an "Executive Consultant". However, we all know what that means. She could make suggestions, that might be listened to, but she no longer had any creative control over the show. She was nothing more than a figurehead for the remaining two years she was involved with the show.
As to whether I put her on a pedestal. No, I don't. She made mistakes, yes (sloppy research into what happened to accused witches in Salem, for example). However, compared to the mistakes of the Kern era, Burge's mistakes pale.
Oh, and for those that say no story arcs happened under Burge's watch. Three words: Rex and Hannah.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2015 14:17:19 GMT -5
(and the rating were much lower too) Actually, the show's ratings were lower under Kern's run. Seasons 1 and 2 both got fairly high ratings for the WB, while of Kern's seasons, only Season 3 (and to a lesser extent, Season 6) was similarly high-rated. Of course, that probably had more to do with the presence (or lack) of certain characters like Prue and Chris than anything to do with Connie vs Kern. As for me, I feel the same way as Tim. Connie did make several mistakes with the show, but her mistakes still paled in comparison to Kern's. She was a much lesser evil, if you will, and probably only seems "idealized" by fans because of how much worse Kern was. If you ask me, Charmed would've ideally been run by someone else instead of either of them. Someone who could write consistent, engaging story arcs and believable, non-insulting character development, as well as stand up to Executive Meddling.
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Post by val1993 on Dec 6, 2015 14:41:12 GMT -5
If you ask me, Charmed would've ideally been run by someone else instead of either of them. Someone who could write consistent, engaging story arcs and believable, non-insulting character development, as well as stand up to Executive Meddling. Hm... Paul Ruditis?
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Dec 6, 2015 15:23:40 GMT -5
If you ask me, Charmed would've ideally been run by someone else instead of either of them. Someone who could write consistent, engaging story arcs and believable, non-insulting character development, as well as stand up to Executive Meddling. Hm... Paul Ruditis? He's the one I would've much preferred. I used to have Connie on a pedestal, but she's fallen off. During my re-watches, I've been checking to see who wrote which episodes and I really am not impressed with the ones she wrote at all, just like I'm not impressed with the ones that Brad Kern wrote. Their visions of the sisters aren't mine. I much prefer Paul Ruditis' or Sheryl J. Anderson's. Theirs are the sisters I can both love and admire, not something I can say about either Connie's or Brad's.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2015 20:00:02 GMT -5
If you ask me, Charmed would've ideally been run by someone else instead of either of them. Someone who could write consistent, engaging story arcs and believable, non-insulting character development, as well as stand up to Executive Meddling. Hm... Paul Ruditis? Or Joss Whedon (if only).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2015 21:22:03 GMT -5
He was always a good fit for Charmed. His novels were often better than the show itself, and considering the story restrictions that were put upon him by "Forever Crap," he did a good job with the comics.
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Post by West on Dec 6, 2015 21:58:51 GMT -5
He's the one I would've much preferred. I used to have Connie on a pedestal, but she's fallen off. During my re-watches, I've been checking to see who wrote which episodes and I really am not impressed with the ones she wrote at all, just like I'm not impressed with the ones that Brad Kern wrote. Their visions of the sisters aren't mine. I much prefer Paul Ruditis' or Sheryl J. Anderson's. Theirs are the sisters I can both love and admire, not something I can say about either Connie's or Brad's. Paul was fantastic. Had Paul taken Kern's place, and Connie still left. I'd have WAY more faith in Paul writing the series for the later seasons. How I wished. Whats interesting is if Sheryl J. Anderson' had stayed on till the end, we could of gotten some great written later season episodes. Although I sadly doubt her staying would magically make the show better, under Kern. Though half the writing stuff hired after season 3 sucked.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2015 22:25:04 GMT -5
Connie didn't even originate the idea of 'the three sisters', E. Duke Vincent did. Connie initially came up with three roommates who were witches, until it was revised int a show about 'sisters who happen to be witches'.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2015 1:46:02 GMT -5
Connie didn't even originate the idea of 'the three sisters', E. Duke Vincent did. Connie initially came up with three roommates who were witches, until it was revised int a show about 'sisters who happen to be witches'. Where did you read that? What I remember reading is that Connie came up with the idea of a show about three sisters and that the WB convinced her to make it about three sister witches because they wanted to cash in on Buffy's success at the time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2015 10:19:18 GMT -5
Connie didn't even originate the idea of 'the three sisters', E. Duke Vincent did. Connie initially came up with three roommates who were witches, until it was revised int a show about 'sisters who happen to be witches'. Where did you read that? What I remember reading is that Connie came up with the idea of a show about three sisters and that the WB convinced her to make it about three sister witches because they wanted to cash in on Buffy's success at the time. www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWv9RjyduYMVincent says it in this video. They wanted a high-concept show, probably to cash in on the Buffy mania, they decided on witches and then hired Connie because she was still under contract with them and she came up with three witch roommates.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2015 10:59:11 GMT -5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWv9RjyduYMVincent says it in this video. They wanted a high-concept show, probably to cash in on the Buffy mania, they decided on witches and then hired Connie because she was still under contract with them and she came up with three witch roommates. Well, my part about them wanting to cash in on Buffy is still correct. Not sure how much of it was Spelling or how much of it was the WB, but the motive was there. Executive Meddling had been a part of this show's history from Day One.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2015 12:46:51 GMT -5
Tell me about it. Buffy, the WB left alone, but Charmed, they had their fingers in the cookie jar every time you turned around.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2015 15:08:01 GMT -5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWv9RjyduYMVincent says it in this video. They wanted a high-concept show, probably to cash in on the Buffy mania, they decided on witches and then hired Connie because she was still under contract with them and she came up with three witch roommates. Well, my part about them wanting to cash in on Buffy is still correct. Not sure how much of it was Spelling or how much of it was the WB, but the motive was there. Executive Meddling had been a part of this show's history from Day One. Yep, as I say, the network were eager to cash in on Buffy with another "high concept show". Connie was just told to come up with a witch show.
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thepowerofnicki
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Post by thepowerofnicki on Dec 7, 2015 23:58:24 GMT -5
I certainly do. Mostly because every time I watch "Something Wicca This Way Comes" I get really excited. She set up the series in such a great way. It had optimism, mystery, fun, goofiness, family, 90's girl power, and a cool crafty vibe (At least in Season 1). Was she perfect, no. However, unlike Kern I believed she cared for her characters especially since they were based on her own sisters. The relationship was so genuine it reminded me of my own dynamic with my siblings. Lots of people disagree on a direction a Showrunner may take. Look at the much praised Joss Whedon for example with Buffy. However, some like Kern just mangled up the show. In my opinion Burge would fall into the first category. My long relationship with Charmed made me realize what are in my opinion truly bad directions. Charmed is so messed up with continuity issues, with the most messed up universe ever, that it could never have a spin-off or continuation. It's practically ruined! At least with Burge and a few mistakes the show could continue with a correction in the storyline, or better writing. Shows like The X-Files and Gilmore Girls can have revival series despite fan's negative feelings towards each show's last season. However, the only way to fix this incarnation of Charmed would be to reveal it to be some dream or a book like the finale in Roseanne. I think it comes from my belief that with Burge even if I ever disagreed with her change in direction I could respect it, or at least it could easily be reversed in the future.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2015 8:31:17 GMT -5
However, the only way to fix this incarnation of Charmed would be to reveal it to be some dream or a book like the finale in Roseanne. It could be like a repeat of brain drain except instead of putting Piper in a world where her and sisters were in a crazy house, the source puts creates a fantasy world where Prue was killed and replaced by Paige. The Angel of Destiny offering the Charmed Ones to give up their powers in "Witch Way Now" was actually the Source's way of getting Piper to relinquish her sister's powers. Since she said no, the delusion continued... for four more years. The Source had ample enough time to grab Piper after Shax's wind-blast knocked her through the wall. It would also explain why Piper suddenly became the main character despite the fact that Charmed was supposed to be an ensemble.
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