'Death Becomes Them' Discussion

[charmedforlife28]

Jan 18, 2016 22:45:43 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

Jan 18, 2016 20:40:49 GMT -5 @deano said:

I'm just finished watching 'Death Becomes Them' and it is definitely one of my favourite episodes of Season 7. That said, I couldn't help but think of a few adjustments that would've made the episode even better, in my view: 

1. Including Joanna and Tim in previous S7 episode: although their deaths/murders were tragic, Zankou's campaign to emotionally weaken the sisters would've been more poignant had we seen the relationships with these characters form over several episodes: Phoebe's romantically with Tim and Paige's as a Whitelighter/guide and friend to Joanna. 

2. Zankou should've murdered Darryl as well: Utterly horrible to think of, I know, but considering he was not even brought back in Season 8 this would've been a good opportunity to truly shake the sisters to their core - by seeing their oldest friend be killed. I wonder if the writers flirted with this idea, as there is a lot of suggestive dialogue between Darryl, Sheridan and Shelia in this episode, some of which points towards some sort of 'end' for Darryl. 

3. Bringing back Prue instead of Inspector Davidson: This seems even more likely to be something the writers would've wished for. I'm sorry but Zankou would NOT have brought back Reece when he knew the sisters had a dead sister, Prue would've been the perfect resource for him to use to achieve his goal. He even mentioned in 'Scry Hard' how devastated Piper was when she lost Prue, as she wrote in her diary. 


Add these changes to 'Something Wicca This Way Goes...?' in which the sisters pay tribute to Prue by using Astral Projection to fool/escape Zankou (preferably by way of a spell which Prue had devised, as opposed to having taught Leo the power) and I think those two episodes would've been an amazing series finale. 

What do you guys think?

you could try to do the whole thing with Prue off-camera and using a stand-in's back like they did in 'Cat House', but I think that would be even more awkward. It's one of those episodes that becomes a wonderful fanfic done properly but just doesn't work in Real Life.

Wait when did they use the back of her, didn't they just reuse a clip from the previous season

[codebox]

This episode had wasted potential to bring back previous faces. For Inspector Davidson it made sense, I was fine with that. But to me this biggest missed potential was Doctor Williamson, why didn't he get brought back for Piper? Instead they give her three random people we never see.

[Melinda Halliwell]

Actor availability maybe if the person who played him weren't available then?

[codebox]

I'd either say that or one of the examples of later season's sloppy writing.

[gzv969]

And as I mentioned previously, my issue with this episode is that I find it hard to believe that piper blowing up those corpses was enough to push her emotions to the point of severing the power of 3. Phoebe grieving over loosing her classmate then seeing Davison I get, and Paige not being there for her friend that got killed. But piper seeing zombie corpses and blowing them up? They weren’t even people she know that well to get all emotional over, just like Codebox mentioned above. I would have thought she would have gotten extremely pissed with Zankou more than upset. But your right, if she had encountered Davidson, that would have done it. Or the doctor in AHBL.

[forbuss]

Jan 18, 2016 22:45:43 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

Jan 18, 2016 20:40:49 GMT -5 @deano said:

I'm just finished watching 'Death Becomes Them' and it is definitely one of my favourite episodes of Season 7. That said, I couldn't help but think of a few adjustments that would've made the episode even better, in my view: 

1. Including Joanna and Tim in previous S7 episode: although their deaths/murders were tragic, Zankou's campaign to emotionally weaken the sisters would've been more poignant had we seen the relationships with these characters form over several episodes: Phoebe's romantically with Tim and Paige's as a Whitelighter/guide and friend to Joanna. 

2. Zankou should've murdered Darryl as well: Utterly horrible to think of, I know, but considering he was not even brought back in Season 8 this would've been a good opportunity to truly shake the sisters to their core - by seeing their oldest friend be killed. I wonder if the writers flirted with this idea, as there is a lot of suggestive dialogue between Darryl, Sheridan and Shelia in this episode, some of which points towards some sort of 'end' for Darryl. 

3. Bringing back Prue instead of Inspector Davidson: This seems even more likely to be something the writers would've wished for. I'm sorry but Zankou would NOT have brought back Reece when he knew the sisters had a dead sister, Prue would've been the perfect resource for him to use to achieve his goal. He even mentioned in 'Scry Hard' how devastated Piper was when she lost Prue, as she wrote in her diary. 


Add these changes to 'Something Wicca This Way Goes...?' in which the sisters pay tribute to Prue by using Astral Projection to fool/escape Zankou (preferably by way of a spell which Prue had devised, as opposed to having taught Leo the power) and I think those two episodes would've been an amazing series finale. 

What do you guys think?

*sigh* Obviously #3 was impossible. Had they been able to bring Shannen back, then it would've been wonderful, but as is...you could try to do the whole thing with Prue off-camera and using a stand-in's back like they did in 'Cat House', but I think that would be even more awkward. It's one of those episodes that becomes a wonderful fanfic done properly but just doesn't work in Real Life.

The other problem, of course, is the writers didn't realize that the sisters needed shaking up, which is probably why they didn't kill Darryl.

The idea of Joanna being Paige's charge and Tim being PhoeME's slampiece in earlier episodes is a great idea, one the writers should've considered, but as for the other two, all I'll say to all is, yes, it would've made it better, but it looks like they did what they thought was the best they could.

I don't think Shannen would have ever come back to be play dead Prue trying to kill her sisters.

Something like this was actually planned for Buffy. The dead romantic partner of one character was supposed to come back, but it wasn't really them - an evil host taking control of their body in attempts to manipulate the other character. The actress refused because she thought it would devastate fans to see her deceased character appear this way. The show did decide to go through with the plot but the fake "spirit" of her dead lover speak through a different body, and that body was controlled by the host... Very bad choice IMO.

[Too Much Coffee]

Sept 3, 2020 1:55:20 GMT -5 forbuss said:

Jan 18, 2016 22:45:43 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

*sigh* Obviously #3 was impossible. Had they been able to bring Shannen back, then it would've been wonderful, but as is...you could try to do the whole thing with Prue off-camera and using a stand-in's back like they did in 'Cat House', but I think that would be even more awkward. It's one of those episodes that becomes a wonderful fanfic done properly but just doesn't work in Real Life.

The other problem, of course, is the writers didn't realize that the sisters needed shaking up, which is probably why they didn't kill Darryl.

The idea of Joanna being Paige's charge and Tim being PhoeME's slampiece in earlier episodes is a great idea, one the writers should've considered, but as for the other two, all I'll say to all is, yes, it would've made it better, but it looks like they did what they thought was the best they could.

I don't think Shannen would have ever come back to be play dead Prue trying to kill her sisters.

Something like this was actually planned for Buffy. The dead romantic partner of one character was supposed to come back, but it wasn't really them - an evil host taking control of their body in attempts to manipulate the other character. The actress refused because she thought it would devastate fans to see her deceased character appear this way. The show did decide to go through with the plot but the fake "spirit" of her dead lover speak through a different body, and that body was controlled by the host... Very bad choice IMO.

Same here, no way Shannen would agree to that part to play a Zombie, especially if that was the first time we saw her since she died. If she did and was able to come back, I'd rather they waited one more episode and did a cameo in SWTWG.

[forbuss]

Sept 3, 2020 3:32:46 GMT -5 Too Much Coffee said:

Sept 3, 2020 1:55:20 GMT -5 forbuss said:

I don't think Shannen would have ever come back to be play dead Prue trying to kill her sisters.

Something like this was actually planned for Buffy. The dead romantic partner of one character was supposed to come back, but it wasn't really them - an evil host taking control of their body in attempts to manipulate the other character. The actress refused because she thought it would devastate fans to see her deceased character appear this way. The show did decide to go through with the plot but the fake "spirit" of her dead lover speak through a different body, and that body was controlled by the host... Very bad choice IMO.

Same here, no way Shannen would agree to that part to play a Zombie, especially if that was the first time we saw her since she died. If she did and was able to come back, I'd rather they waited one more episode and did a cameo in SWTWG.

Yes! I love the edited videos of Shannen coming back to close the front door - these videos exist for "Something Wicca This Way Goes" and "Forever Charmed".

Here's a question I am unclear on... I don't think the WB would have had to pay Shannen for using old footage (from S1-3). My theory is that the studio owned this footage and Shannen was previously paid for completing that work... It's just like they wouldn't have had to pay her to mention "Prue" which they barely did after her death.

[forbuss]

Sept 3, 2020 10:09:02 GMT -5 forbuss said:

Sept 3, 2020 3:32:46 GMT -5 Too Much Coffee said:

Same here, no way Shannen would agree to that part to play a Zombie, especially if that was the first time we saw her since she died. If she did and was able to come back, I'd rather they waited one more episode and did a cameo in SWTWG.

Yes! I love the edited videos of Shannen coming back to close the front door - these videos exist for "Something Wicca This Way Goes" and "Forever Charmed".

Here's a question I am unclear on... I don't think the WB would have had to pay Shannen for using old footage (from S1-3). My theory is that the studio owned this footage and Shannen was previously paid for completing that work... It's just like they wouldn't have had to pay her to mention "Prue" which they barely did after her death.

I'm starting to think that there was some sort of agreement between Shannen and the WB after her departure. Maybe she got them to agree to never using her image again or never using it without her consent.

[Too Much Coffee]

Sept 3, 2020 10:09:02 GMT -5 forbuss said:

Sept 3, 2020 3:32:46 GMT -5 Too Much Coffee said:

Same here, no way Shannen would agree to that part to play a Zombie, especially if that was the first time we saw her since she died. If she did and was able to come back, I'd rather they waited one more episode and did a cameo in SWTWG.

Yes! I love the edited videos of Shannen coming back to close the front door - these videos exist for "Something Wicca This Way Goes" and "Forever Charmed".

Here's a question I am unclear on... I don't think the WB would have had to pay Shannen for using old footage (from S1-3). My theory is that the studio owned this footage and Shannen was previously paid for completing that work... It's just like they wouldn't have had to pay her to mention "Prue" which they barely did after her death.

I'd love to see those edited videos with the door closing with her, it would have been a great cameo for her. 

I thought Shannen owned the rights to her image, and or they had to pay her as much money as she earned when she appears, so maybe it was budget and money that prevented them from using her image or old footage. 

It's hard to know, because both Shannen and Kern have said different things in regards to using her image, Shannen says they never asked, and Kern says he didn't because he'd have to pay Shannen her full salary just to use her image or old footage, which would cost money. 

I tend to think she did own the rights, because why on earth wouldn't they use Prue in Cat House, and resort to just showing the back of her head, and a dog, unless Kern really wanted to insult fans, and didn't bother to ask Shannen, but I tend to think she refused. 

But, I actually think Cat House was a budget saving episode, remember they did 23 episodes that season, not the usual 22, so they probably needed an episode that could shoot less than eight days, and why they came up with this one in the first place, same reason they did that again in Season 6, so they can meet the schedule demands, and maybe they didn't have the money to pay to use Shannen's image and ask her. 

I tend to believe they don't own the rights, if they did, they'd have used Prue's image as much as they could without having to pay Shannen.

Shannen may have had that in her contract, and maybe Kern really didn't know that, and found out after the fact that she was fired, as they may have wanted to reuse the recycled footage of Prue from past episodes in order to show Prue dying, and used a stunt double, or made a fake dummy in her likeness to play her dead body or something.

[forbuss]

Sept 3, 2020 22:42:30 GMT -5 Too Much Coffee said:

Sept 3, 2020 10:09:02 GMT -5 forbuss said:

Yes! I love the edited videos of Shannen coming back to close the front door - these videos exist for "Something Wicca This Way Goes" and "Forever Charmed".

Here's a question I am unclear on... I don't think the WB would have had to pay Shannen for using old footage (from S1-3). My theory is that the studio owned this footage and Shannen was previously paid for completing that work... It's just like they wouldn't have had to pay her to mention "Prue" which they barely did after her death.

I'd love to see those edited videos with the door closing with her, it would have been a great cameo for her. 

I thought Shannen owned the rights to her image, and or they had to pay her as much money as she earned when she appears, so maybe it was budget and money that prevented them from using her image or old footage. 

It's hard to know, because both Shannen and Kern have said different things in regards to using her image, Shannen says they never asked, and Kern says he didn't because he'd have to pay Shannen her full salary just to use her image or old footage, which would cost money. 

I tend to think she did own the rights, because why on earth wouldn't they use Prue in Cat House, and resort to just showing the back of her head, and a dog, unless Kern really wanted to insult fans, and didn't bother to ask Shannen, but I tend to think she refused. 

But, I actually think Cat House was a budget saving episode, remember they did 23 episodes that season, not the usual 22, so they probably needed an episode that could shoot less than eight days, and why they came up with this one in the first place, same reason they did that again in Season 6, so they can meet the schedule demands, and maybe they didn't have the money to pay to use Shannen's image and ask her. 

I tend to believe they don't own the rights, if they did, they'd have used Prue's image as much as they could without having to pay Shannen.

Shannen may have had that in her contract, and maybe Kern really didn't know that, and found out after the fact that she was fired, as they may have wanted to reuse the recycled footage of Prue from past episodes in order to show Prue dying, and used a stunt double, or made a fake dummy in her likeness to play her dead body or something.

I think you are right! I *don't* like when people blame Shannen for this. The reality is, I think they should have basically kissed her feet to come back for an episode. Give her some say in how Prue is depicted and presented, and pay her whatever she wants within reason. If she had of come back, they could have blown up "Prue's return" on all the promo's and commercials. I think the ratings and viewership would have been through the ROOF, which would have generated much more money for the show than what it would have cost to pay Shannen what she deserved (pay her whatever Alyssa/Holly/Rose were making per episode).

[forbuss]

Sept 3, 2020 23:25:34 GMT -5 forbuss said:

Sept 3, 2020 22:42:30 GMT -5 Too Much Coffee said:

I'd love to see those edited videos with the door closing with her, it would have been a great cameo for her. 

I thought Shannen owned the rights to her image, and or they had to pay her as much money as she earned when she appears, so maybe it was budget and money that prevented them from using her image or old footage. 

It's hard to know, because both Shannen and Kern have said different things in regards to using her image, Shannen says they never asked, and Kern says he didn't because he'd have to pay Shannen her full salary just to use her image or old footage, which would cost money. 

I tend to think she did own the rights, because why on earth wouldn't they use Prue in Cat House, and resort to just showing the back of her head, and a dog, unless Kern really wanted to insult fans, and didn't bother to ask Shannen, but I tend to think she refused. 

But, I actually think Cat House was a budget saving episode, remember they did 23 episodes that season, not the usual 22, so they probably needed an episode that could shoot less than eight days, and why they came up with this one in the first place, same reason they did that again in Season 6, so they can meet the schedule demands, and maybe they didn't have the money to pay to use Shannen's image and ask her. 

I tend to believe they don't own the rights, if they did, they'd have used Prue's image as much as they could without having to pay Shannen.

Shannen may have had that in her contract, and maybe Kern really didn't know that, and found out after the fact that she was fired, as they may have wanted to reuse the recycled footage of Prue from past episodes in order to show Prue dying, and used a stunt double, or made a fake dummy in her likeness to play her dead body or something.

I think you are right! I *don't* like when people blame Shannen for this. The reality is, I think they should have basically kissed her feet to come back for an episode. Give her some say in how Prue is depicted and presented, and pay her whatever she wants within reason. If she had of come back, they could have blown up "Prue's return" on all the promo's and commercials. I think the ratings and viewership would have been through the ROOF, which would have generated much more money for the show than what it would have cost to pay Shannen what she deserved (pay her whatever Alyssa/Holly/Rose were making per episode). They did this for the new season of 90210 - the promoted the HELL out of the return of Jenny Garth and Shannen Doherty. Both of these ladies left in the first season and the show literally lost half it's viewers. Never under estimate the power of nostalgia (and Shannen Doherty).

Now that the news about Brad Kern with CBS is out, I feel like he wanted Shannen gone because she's not the type of woman to be pushed around. I wonder if Shannen and Constance had a close (if any) relationship.