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Post by jdpm1991 on Jan 28, 2016 17:05:05 GMT -5
Why was this a fan favorite? I don't know why but I hate this episode only thing I love about is The Seer's return, the non pregnant Piper. I mean why wasn't Shax in this episode? He should have been there and how was Cole dominating if The Source is still alive why isn't he ruling the Manor with The Seer?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2016 18:05:38 GMT -5
It is? I think it's pure rubbish. Of course, I think that Season Five, with the exception of Cat House, is a stinking pile of turd. If all the episodes, with the exception of the aforementioned Cat House, were destroyed, I wouldn't shed a tear.
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Post by lilchi7212 on Jan 28, 2016 18:11:02 GMT -5
Why no poll?
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Post by Sadrick on Jan 29, 2016 0:27:33 GMT -5
It's anything but overrated. I perceive it as the product of a cheap machination to kill off Julian's character because he had just been contracted to act in Nip/Tuck. Cole's character had become tarnished, worn out, chewed up, and abused in just about every conceivable manner possible by the time the writers formulated this inconsistent drivel to justify Cole being taken out of the show. It makes a mockery of who he was and reinforces this repulsive stigma that's become attached to him courtesy of the sisters.
They should have allowed Cole to maintain his dignity by having him stay dead at the end of Season 4. True, if this scenario had taken place then I'm confident many people would still be criticising the show for leaving things unresolved by not allowing the sisters to understand the circumstances which lead up to Cole's death. My responce to that is have the season finale rewritten in a way that allows Cole from the wasteland to explain how he didn't purposefully choose to be given the Source's powers; this could provide some clarity for the sisters and allow them to understand that Cole was in a way a victim of this war with evil as well.
Ideally, I would hope Phoebe would have the maturity to acknowledge that she made significant faults of her own choosing by not noticing the signs sooner and allowing their last hope for escape from it all, the wizard, to be killed. She could feel responsible for Cole's death because of what she helped turn him into. Perhaps we could even stretch this to where she's the one who is ecstatically offering to resurrect Cole so they can try and be together again. This would obviously mean the whole world to him, but in a profound act of selflessness, he would acknowledge that his own temptations for power influenced his mind and that he needs to do penance for his crimes by remaining dead. Can you imagine how impactful that would be for Cole's character? Recognising the iniquities in his own life and choosing a path of redemption wrought with self chosen hardship over a blissful happiness with the love of his life? I have to say that it would be as close to a perfect ending for Cole's character that we could get, in my opinion. It ironically happens to mirror Castiel again when he chose to remain in Purgatory rather than return to Earth as a gesture of penance for his own crimes.
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Jan 29, 2016 2:40:30 GMT -5
Quite true yes.
As I've mentioned previously another possibility concerning Cole's character then if he did come back season 5 was have him and the sisters resolve everything pertaining the previous year in 'A Witch's Tale' whether through Phoebe getting a vision or them finding out some other way then have Cole leave and go work elsewhere doing pro bono maybe using his demonic wasteland powers helping people where he can secretly.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Jan 29, 2016 8:23:55 GMT -5
It's anything but overrated. I perceive it as the product of a cheap machination to kill off Julian's character because he had just been contracted to act in Nip/Tuck. That's not true. I always thought so, but read an interview with McMahon where he said he didn't know what he was going to do after Charmed, and that Kern had told him before Season 5 not to worry if it seemed like his character was being killed off because that was being saved for the 100th episode. |
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Post by erikamarie on Jan 29, 2016 8:42:27 GMT -5
I liked "that rubbish" from the beginning!
Later, seeing it again, I noticed the attention to the details, especially in clothing: the Manor well-lighted and so different in the furnitures, full of demons dressed in black, a completely different Seer, without the usual poncho, very pretty with her hair well coiffed, with an almost chic and low-necked mauve dress
A nice contrast with the abandoned P3 and dead as death were the Charmed Ones, the dark surrounding in which it appears Piper, the cemetery with Paige's tombstone
A big contrast also beetwen the image of the pregnant Piper joking with Phoebe and the Piper of the alternate reality, dressed in black leather, dark and destroyed by the pursuit of revenge, cold and indifferent, arrogant and aggressive, as if the sweet Piper, insecure and shy, was buried with Prue
And Phoebe, with sparkling gems, dressed in red, the color of passion now vanished, inadequate on a person who appears so emotionless to what surrounds her,indifferent to the changes in furnishing the house,to the presence of demons, to Cole, even to what she was, enough to light a cigarette
Apart from my fixations of scenes and colors as interior designer, I enjoyed the conditions that lead to the destruction of Cole, because is Cole himself to set it with his perseverance not to give up his dream
I believe that the basis of many different sensations about seasons 4 and 5 there is the view that we have about Cole: who is Cole?
A poor unaware victim ?
A romantic lover?
A misunderstood potential savior of the innocents?
A demon without qualms who deserved his end?
Maybe we should start from this thread
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2016 17:24:42 GMT -5
The only reason Cole ever returned for Season 5 was because Julian was under contract. The 100th episode was always meant to be Cole's final episode, but Kern's original plan was to vanquish the Source in the Season 4 finale and have the Dark Phoebe story be the plot of early Season 5. (So, the original 4x22 was basically "Charmed and Dangerous" and the original 5x12 was "Long Live the Queen.")
However, the show's ratings unexpectedly collapsed in the middle of Season 4 ("A Paige from the Past" was the show's lowest-rated episode ever until Season 6's "Witch Wars"), which forced Kern to change his previous plans and complete the Dark Phoebe story in the latter part of Season 4. With the threat of cancellation looming over him, he didn't want to leave a single storyline hanging. This is why "Witch Way Now" felt very much like a series finale, with the Angel of Destiny showing up, any loose threads with Cole being tied up, and the episode ending Happily Ever After with Piper pregnant.
However, the show got renewed, and Kern was left without a story for Season 5. And, Julian was still under contract for early Season 5, even though Cole's story had effectively ended in Season 4. This is why the handling of Cole's character was so disastrous in Season 5. Kern literally had no idea what to do with Cole, and Julian was only there to burn through the rest of his contract.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2016 0:27:09 GMT -5
They should have just terminated his contract early. That would have been much better off for everyone. At least we would have been spared seeing Cole's character being butchered like he was in S5.
Perhaps if that had happened, S5 would be less hated and reviled.
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Jan 30, 2016 4:26:24 GMT -5
They should have just terminated his contract early. That would have been much better off for everyone. At least we would have been spared seeing Cole's character being butchered like he was in S5. Perhaps if that had happened, S5 would be less hated and reviled. Exactly. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2016 12:35:42 GMT -5
Season Five seems to be in competition with Season Eight for the Most Hated Season of Charmed.
And this is probably one of the reasons why, I mean who wanted to see Cole get kicked in the face every week, until this lump of turd of an episode came along?
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Post by lilchi7212 on Jan 30, 2016 15:47:09 GMT -5
Season 5 was so awful
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Post by yinsoul on Jan 30, 2016 19:02:10 GMT -5
Season Five seems to be in competition with Season Eight for the Most Hated Season of Charmed. And this is probably one of the reasons why, I mean who wanted to see Cole get kicked in the face every week, until this lump of turd of an episode came along? I'm not a super Cole fan or anything but I feel so bad for the guy its hard to watch that part of the season. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2016 20:25:40 GMT -5
I wonder how season 5 would have been if Cole had been left at "Long Live the Queen". If I remember correctly, the only two notable story themes that season 5 had going through the first half were him and Piper's pregnancy.
Looking at the episode guide, I think the only episodes that you'd probably have to change drastically would be "Sympathy for the Demon" and "The Importance of Being Phoebe"... otherwise, they just had pretty standard "monster of the week" episodes with a bit of Cole somehow squeezed in.
A Witch's Tail could just be about the pain of losing him.
Siren Song- just have the siren go for Leo and Piper instead.
Y Tu Mummy- don't really think Cole's plan was anything that Jeric couldn't have done alone.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2016 12:18:17 GMT -5
Yeah, you could cut Cole out of quite a few early S5 episodes and, with some minor tweaking of the script, basically have the same story.
Good observation, P3Nathan.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2016 13:22:19 GMT -5
Yeah, you could cut Cole out of quite a few early S5 episodes and, with some minor tweaking of the script, basically have the same story. Good observation, P3Nathan. Which shows just how useless and extraneous Cole really was to Season 5. His story really did end with "Witch Way Now." |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2016 17:30:36 GMT -5
They should have just bought out the rest of Julian's contract when they realized Cole had no role to play in S5. I mean how much would that have set them back?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2016 23:36:49 GMT -5
They should have just bought out the rest of Julian's contract when they realized Cole had no role to play in S5. I mean how much would that have set them back? It's possible that they were worried about bad press. Remember, this was only a year after the Shannen debacle. It might not have looked too good for them to let Julian go so soon after that. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2016 0:26:04 GMT -5
I guess losing two of it's stars in such a short time might have raised some eyebrows. Charmed already had a reputation of being a Troubled Production (as TV Tropes would say).
Still, when Julian did leave, I don't recall the press making much of a big deal over it.
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Feb 2, 2016 0:31:47 GMT -5
Why was this a fan favorite? I don't know why but I hate this episode only thing I love about is The Seer's return, the non pregnant Piper. I mean why wasn't Shax in this episode? He should have been there and how was Cole dominating if The Source is still alive why isn't he ruling the Manor with The Seer? This episode is a fan favorite? Really? They could have handled Cole's departure in a better way if the idiot writers had handled the end of the Source story arc with better writing. And by the way, I probably would have enjoyed this series more if the Halliwell sisters had been bumped off and Cole had remained alive. Mr. Mahon didn't learn about "NIP/TUCK" until a few days after he had finished shooting this episode. |
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