Did Phoebe / Cole ruin "Sam I Am"?

[adzpower]

I love this thread.

[Deleted]

Is it too much to say that Phoebe/Cole ruined not just "Sam I Am," but the entire show?

Yeah, I've been on a real anti-Phoebe/Cole streak recently, but it's because I've started to realize just how much I hate the pairing and how much it tainted the later seasons of the show.  The worst parts of Seasons 3-5 are all the parts that involve Phoebe/Cole, and most of what I hate about later Phoebe, in general, can be traced directly back to her relationship with Cole.  And, Cole's literal downfall as a character was his relationship with Phoebe, no question.

[Deleted]

Yeah, I've been on a real anti-Phoebe/Cole streak recently, but it's because I've started to realize just how much I hate the pairing and how much it tainted the later seasons of the show. The worst parts of Seasons 3-5 are all the parts that involve Phoebe/Cole, and most of what I hate about later Phoebe, in general, can be traced directly back to her relationship with Cole. And, Cole's literal downfall as a character was his relationship with Phoebe, no question.

Rex and Hannah may not be as popular as Phoebe/Cole, but they also don't have the Phoebe/Cole sigma attached to them.  I've never heard anyone claim that "Rex and Hannah ruined Charmed".

Phoebe/Cole continued to cast its shadow over Charmed, even after the storyline itself had ended.

[Astral Vision]

Shouldn't have read this thread in the silent section of the library. Trying to contain laughter is not easy.

[lilchi7212]

No, I think that episode needed a side story to go along with Paige and Sam meeting each other. I don't think Phoebe and Cole ruined Charmed but I think season 5 didn't do a very good job explaining Phoebe's rash decision to hate and despise him,or for the quick divorce and other things.

[Deleted]

Once again, Paige, in an episode that she should have been the focus of, got elbowed aside for the Phoebe and Cole Show. 

As I said, I believe that, originally, P3H2O was going to be the first and last time we saw Sam Wilder.  They only brought him back because of Paige.  Therefore, this episode should have been devoted to Paige and her biological father trying to reconnect. 

By now everyone was sick to death of the Phoebe and Cole Show.  That show should have ended with Season Four.

[magena]

I am confused, you think that Paige had to become the only Charmed protagonist?!
It seems you never had enough of Paige
I strongly loved Cole and Phoebe, I discovered a lot of fiction dedicated to their love, they are typically the favorite couple of fans

[yinsoul]

Apr 13, 2016 16:59:20 GMT -5 magena said:

I am confused, you think that Paige had to become the only Charmed protagonist?!
It seems you never had enough of Paige
I strongly loved Cole and Phoebe, I discovered a lot of fiction dedicated to their love, they are typically the favorite couple of fans

I think its more that people feel that if you introduce a character that very fundamentally changes the dynamic of a show you should take time to flesh them out properly.
Someone mentioned Seven of Nine in the thread earlier and this is a good example. Even though she was very obviously eye candy, the writers also made sure to develop her into an interesting character and a lot of her debut season was dedicated to this. 

Paige was sort of plopped in with a few likes and dislikes but a persona that could have been very intriguing. An only child used to her own judgement having to fit into the more group oriented Power of Three? Trying to figure out how she fits into this new family and what she feels about trying to juggle her dual nature? It was also super obvious that some of the things that sort of came out of nowhere, like her constant distrust of Cole, were written for Prue. And the thing is, her character never recovers from this lack of development. The storyline of her being a social worker and using it to express the whitelighter side of her heritage was tossed out in favor of her being at home to be a handy spellsayer or babysitter. Even the glimmers of independence her initial appearance promised (Soul Survivor anyone?) just were swept under the rug most of the time.  Meanwhile there's plenty of time to devote to Phoebe's love life and column and Piper's search for a normal life.

Paige never would have gotten the characterization from those previous three seasons, sure, but the writers didn't try very hard to give her a chance to.

[Deleted]

I am confused, you think that Paige had to become the only Charmed protagonist?!

No, I think that she was robbed of much needed character development, thanks to the Phoebe and Cole Show.  I mean an episode named for her, A Paige From The Past, was mostly devoted to more Phoebe/Cole hi-jinks.  

This was SUPPOSED to be about Paige dealing with the deaths of her foster parents, an emotional episode.  The slapstick routine of Phoebe and Cole was WAY out of place here.

I strongly loved Cole and Phoebe, I discovered a lot of fiction dedicated to their love, they are typically the favorite couple of fans

Yes, but the Phoebe and Cole Show effectively ended with Season Four.  Sam I Am was a Season Five episode.

[Deleted]

Paige was probably the last sister who was ever "the only Charmed protagonist."  Phoebe completely dominated the show in Seasons 4 and 5, while Seasons 6-8 were mostly about Piper.  Paige was always mostly a background character, mostly just getting throwaway subplots and never any major storylines of her own.

[Deleted]

Paige was always mostly a background character, mostly just getting throwaway subplots and never any major storylines of her own.

Paige was only there to fill a space.  They needed three sisters, so, when they lost one, they created another.  They gave her just half a season to fit in, and then it was business as usual.

Both Seven Of Nine and Walden Schmidt (who replaced Charlie Harper on Two And A Half Men) both got good character development, despite being introduced late in a shows run.  There is NO excuse as to why Paige did not receive similar development.  Perhaps if she had, Rose would have wanted to stay (she cried every time the show was renewed, clearly she wanted out).

[Deleted]

It's sad, but true.  If you look at the last 4-5 seasons, notice how the main A-plots always involved either Piper or Phoebe, but never Paige.  Like Season 5, for example.  Piper had her pregnancy and marital issues with Leo, while Phoebe had Cole, Jason, and skimpy outfits.  But, Paige?  All she did was twitch, act dumb, and hang out with leprechauns and nymphs.  You could literally remove her from the season, and it would hardly change.  A main character should NOT be that useless and inconsequential.

[Deleted]

It's sad, but true. If you look at the last 4-5 seasons, notice how the main A-plots always involved either Piper or Phoebe, but never Paige. Like Season 5, for example. Piper had her pregnancy and marital issues with Leo, while Phoebe had Cole, Jason, and skimpy outfits. But, Paige? All she did was twitch, act dumb, and hang out with leprechauns and nymphs. You could literally remove her from the season, and it would hardly change. A main character should NOT be that useless and inconsequential.

Paige became little more than a walking prop.  Hauled out when needed for a Power Of Three spell, but then put back on the shelf after that was done. 

As you said, Paige could be excised completely from Seasons Five and Six, and nothing significant would be missing.   And this was not the third extra from the left, this was a major leading character.

It was not until Kyle, and then later, Henry, showed up that Paige would get any significant character development since early Season Four. 

[Deleted]

Apr 14, 2016 0:16:54 GMT -5 @rexandhannah1 said:

It was not until Kyle, and then later, Henry, showed up that Paige would get any significant character development since early Season Four.

And, note that even then, the main plots of Seasons 7 and 8 were still primarily centered around Piper and Leo. Paige and Henry barely existed on the show in the latter part of Season 8 after their marriage.

[Deleted]

And, note that even then, the main plots of Seasons 7 and 8 were still primarily centered around Piper and Leo. Paige and Henry barely existed on the show in the latter part of Season 8 after their marriage.

And Leo wasn't even there for most of Season Eight

Of course, the other half was more Phoebe and her beefcakes, Dex and Mr. Cardboard.

[Deleted]

Even as an icicle, Leo was considered more important to the main plot than Paige.

Oh, and let's not forget the nonexistent budget forcing them to leave Ivan Sergei out of most of the finale because they just haaaad to bring back Patty and Grams one more time.  Or, Rose ditching most of the filming to go do Grindhouse.  For being a supposedly big part of Season 8, Paige and Henry hardly existed in the finale.

[Deleted]

Or, Rose ditching most of the filming to go do Grindhouse.

Shows how done Rose was with Charmed. 

I mean they could have probably filmed around Grindhouse, but Rose apparently said:  "Meh, it's okay, I'll be on the set of Grindhouse.   The Charmed finale, screw it."

[ljones]

Apr 9, 2016 22:35:57 GMT -5 jdpm1991 said:

"Sam I Am" was the first Paige centric episode since "A Paige from the Past" but it was yet again destroyed by another Phoebe and Cole subplot, why do these 2 episodes that are supposed to be dedicated to Paige Matthews always have the Phoebe and Cole subplot?

"The Fifth Halliwell" was also a Paige centric episode.

[unakite]

And Simpathy for the Demon

[imdb lives on]

Absolutely, every episode no matter how good was ruined in small ways by that relationship in season five. Very bad writing