Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
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Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
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Post by Esmeralda on Jun 18, 2016 10:42:10 GMT -5
My point is that I would have rather the ladies dealt with personal issues in their true characters which would have led to them developing their bond better. I mean, even Prue Piper and Phoebe had issues to work on in Season 3. I wish this was more developed in Season 5 with them slowly coming together again at the end of the Season. What are your thoughts? This above here. The focus should've remained on sisterhood rather than love lives of the sisters. It's hard to swallow that on the sisterly front, there was nothing to develop. Paige is still virtually a stranger which they've known for a year while Prue grew up with Piper and Phoebe. Even then, there were a ton of issues between Prue and Phoebe and sometimes even Piper which were explored in earlier seasons. With Paige, the writers practically had a goldmine of issues to explore and resolve. We never saw Victor's reaction to Paige. We never saw Aunt Julie and Uncle Dave or their reactions to Paige's sisters and them being witches. Even Sam's return felt more 'meh' as the main focus was on Cole and Phoebe and even then, why in the world was Sam made a whitelighter again when he was dead and happily going away to the afterlife with Patty? It made no sense that the Elders wanted a Sam and Paige reunion. Paige could've easily summoned Sam from the afterlife like Patty for that reunion. If being a whitelighter again was a punishment for abandoning his calling after Patty's death or something like breaking the rules and having a baby with Patty, that explanation I could've bought. Anyways, here's what I came up for an alternate season 5 some time ago for another thread: I LOVE your whole alternate series! Wish Canon Charmed had been a lot more like that! |
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Jun 18, 2016 11:03:22 GMT -5
Well, they completed their destiny, so they shouldn't have need The Power of Three as much, so she could focus on her work and help. Because the Elders started doing that to her at some point. Let her do it on her own terms. And that's what I hated most about Season Four (among a ton of things), the way it messed up S5-8. Getting rid of the Source did NOT complete their destiny, not unless getting rid of him means that the magical world would never harm anyone nonmagical again, and as we saw in S5-8, that very simply wasn't the case. Their destiny was to protect innocents; ie, those innocent of the existence of magic. That did not stop when they got rid of the Source, or rather, it should not have stopped when they got rid of he Source. So Paige continuing her social work where she could've met people who others thought had problems when their problems were actually magical is exactly what Season Five needed after the horror of what was S4 - the continuation of their destiny, not the startup of a new one - protecting the Twice-Blessed Brat. |
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Post by Assassin Witch on Jun 18, 2016 11:57:09 GMT -5
San Fran could have been another magical hub and that "twist of fate" could be magical cases to Paige, like with Tyler, the firestarter.
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Jun 18, 2016 15:35:14 GMT -5
And that's what I hated most about Season Four (among a ton of things), the way it messed up S5-8. Getting rid of the Source did NOT complete their destiny, not unless getting rid of him means that the magical world would never harm anyone nonmagical again, and as we saw in S5-8, that very simply wasn't the case. Exactly Es defeating the Source didn't complete the sisters destiny because he was just another demon they fought and vanquished. The Source wasn't the ultimate evil who once killed meant the Charmed Ones never fought evil again because there were other demons out there who still existed I.E. Zankou and whatnot. |
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Post by West on Jun 18, 2016 17:17:17 GMT -5
And that's what I hated most about Season Four (among a ton of things), the way it messed up S5-8. Getting rid of the Source did NOT complete their destiny, not unless getting rid of him means that the magical world would never harm anyone nonmagical again, and as we saw in S5-8, that very simply wasn't the case. Exactly Es defeating the Source didn't complete the sisters destiny because he was just another demon they fought and vanquished. The Source wasn't the ultimate evil who once killed meant the Charmed Ones never fought evil again because there were other demons out there who still existed I.E. Zankou and whatnot. Well it wasn't like the sisters are the only other witches in the world to still fight demons. If they defeated the Source, who was labeled as the source of all evil incorrectly it seems now. But they tried to introduce Zankou as another big threat and say other big threats are out there. Just another issue with the later seasons. Because the Source was the end point and any threats that come after him should be seen as back to basics. Which is why going back to saving innocents made sense. Thats why the show was better off just not naming the Source with that title. Had they just said he was Zankou or any other name and not the source of all evil, then things can be seen as other threats are out there. Maybe. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2016 19:13:47 GMT -5
This is why continuing the show past Season Four made no sense. The story was over, done, finished.
This would be like continuing The Fugitive after the One Armed Man had been caught and Dr. Kimble was cleared of the murder of his wife.
When a story is over, it's over. As Judge Judy would say, put a period on it and move on.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2016 19:25:31 GMT -5
Oh wow, I'm not actually sure, although I know I'd make it radically different. Let's see, generally I'd say: - Definitely no Cole. I'd have it be assumed that his appearance on Earth to save Phoebe from Jackman was a temporary astral projection and that he was unable to return fully. - Keep Phoebe with Miles, don't kill him off. I liked them together. - Remove Phoebe's 'celebrity status' and have her get frequent premonitions about her readers instead, who she would subsequently visit and help. It would get her mind off Cole and remind her of her purpose. - None of Piper whining that she is the first woman alive to have a child. Her baby can have the forcefield but no more Super Womb antics, especially RAISING THE DEAD  - Paige keeps her job: the Source is dead, why is she focusing on the Craft now? Much like Phoebe, she would regularly help Innocents through her work. And in terms of an actual story-arc for the premiere, I would've loved the sisters to 'go back' to the homeland of their ancestors (the Scottish Highlands in my head canon) and learn that the origins of Witchcraft come from the ancient Druids. This would be like a 'Part Two' to 'All Halliwell's Eve' as it would let Paige have that experience too. It would also be a crucial bonding experience for the three of them. As a finale to the season and possibly the show, I'd of course love the sisters reunited with Prue. My episode idea is of the Crone kidnapping Piper in preparation for her giving birth on the Festival of Lights (in place of Cronus). However, she loses a lot of blood and begins to slowly die. She has a 'Seven Year Witch' moment and meets Prue. As she slips in and out of consciousness, Prue comes and goes. When Piper is 'awake', Prue is revealed to be working with Cole, who is teaching her how to project herself to Piper. Meanwhile, Phoebe and Paige have been left powerless by the Northern Lights but by using the knowledge they learned from their visit to Scotland they tap into the natural magic of the Sabbath and achieve a 'Forever Charmed'-style time-hop and meet Past Prue circa 2001. They warn her that Piper and her child are in danger in the present and that they need her so that they can use the Power of Three to vanquish the Crone. Meanwhile, in the Cosmic Void, Cole explains that he got trapped between Earth and the Wasteland after saving Phoebe from Jackman. He suggest to Prue that her being able to communicate to Piper might mean that the sisters can resurrect them both. Prue admits it is tempting but makes Cole accept that he is meant to die, just like she was. He finally moves on and just as Past Prue, Phoebe and Paige come to vanquish the Crone, Piper gives birth and Prue's soul also moves on, the implication being that she has been reborn in Piper's newborn daughter (*sorry Super Wyatt*). This also causes Past Prue to vanish back to her time. Sweet, simple and focuses on the four sisters. No need for a family reunion and Cole also gets some decent closure/redemption without pulling focus. Also, if anyone is trying to think of a way to enjoy Season 5 more, I've found that a chopped down version makes it a much more enjoyable experience, it goes like this: Start with 'Siren's Song' and right away it opens to Phoebe's sleep being disturbed by nightmare-flashbacks of her car-crash relationship with Cole and, early into the episode, it is confirmed what we all knew from 'Witch Way Now?' - Cole ain't dead and the season will probably involve more drama between him and Phoebe. We next see them on the phone talking about Cole saving Melissa and debating his return for the Wasteland. It's confirmed. The big difference is that Phoebe isn't the complete b*tch she was in 'Adventures of a Slutty Mermaid' or 'Adventures of a Slutty Disney Princess', she's tolerable. Piper is a moany hag all episode but we can chalk it up to 'this is the part where we remind viewers she's pregnant'. Paige actually has ok character development. It is established that she quit her job (which is bad) but we see her being reminded/encouraged by Piper and Leo to honour her caring personality as well as focus on the Craft. Skip to 'The Eyes Have It' which is a FANTASTIC episode. Very Season 2 feeling and the sisters are all likeable; Phoebe is portrayed in a more vulnerable light because Cole is not there hogging up airtime and her premonitions even matter again! Paige's enthusiasm for learning about Gypsy magic is cute and yet she is sensitive and protective of Ava at the same time (did she actually learn her lesson from dismissing Melissa?). Hell, even Piper's moaning about pregnancy symptoms isn't that annoying as it is counterbalanced by her sweet scenes with Ava. Continue on with 'Sympathy for the Demon' and 'A Witch in Time' which have good solid plots and are the best Cole episodes of Season 5. Some of the Phoebe/Cole tension is actually pretty interesting as he watches her move on with Miles - even though it would've been better if he stayed dead. Watch 'Sam, I Am' and the Mummy episode purely to see Paige get a storyline, unfortunately you'll still have to suffer Cole's sudden descent into madness and Phoebe return to self-centred 'witch'. They're ok episodes, pretty meh, but kinda needed. You could actually take out SIA if you don't care about his meeting Paige and just watch the Mummy episode, because Piper's potential dilemma of having to choose between her sisters IS pretty interesting. Go straight to 'Centennial Charmed' to finally see the end of Cole, bypassing that pointless stripper episode on your way, of course. 'Sand Francisco Dreamin' is a fairly good caper episode and nice if you'd like to see Phoebe get one of those premonition things again. Then straight onto 'The Day the Magic Died', 'Baby's First Demon' and 'Sense and Sense Ability' for some good Crone-age. Then finish with 'Cat House'. This way the season feels very Season 2: without a strong arc but decent enough individual episodes. |
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Jun 18, 2016 19:37:05 GMT -5
This is great except for the parts about Prue - if we're talking about what we'd want, it should be what *could* happen, not what couldn't, and Prue returning simply wasn't in the cards. But more mentions of her - letting Paige get to know her oldest half-sister without actually meeting her - would've been very nice.
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Post by adzpower on Jun 19, 2016 3:44:57 GMT -5
The season premiere could also have been the season finale, a 2 hour finale to everything. I can't speak about what would happen in it but I know the ending would have Phoebe finding out she was infertile  I'm spiteful I know.  |
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Jun 19, 2016 7:40:42 GMT -5
The season premiere could also have been the season finale, a 2 hour finale to everything. I can't speak about what would happen in it but I know the ending would have Phoebe finding out she was infertile I'm spiteful I know. ROFL! But that's what I've always believed, part of why I think 'Forever Piper', I mean 'Forever Crap', I mean 'Forever Charmed' is Piper's delusion as she dies - I think that vision of her being pregnant and other sights of Ladybug is what she wants, not what she gets. I think that like Piper, she was damaged too much internally to have kids and unlike Piper, was never healed by Leo's whitelighter seed. And saying the season premiere is the second part of the finale to everything - well, I"d still prefer you doing that with 'All Hell Breaks Loose' and 'Charmed Again' as the series finale but showing that Piper and Prue are both dead (and stay dead...), Paige doesn't exist and Phoebe is stuck in the Underworld with Cole with both of them evil forever with no chance of either ever becoming good...with the possibility of *that* as the spin-off - but you definitely have the point that saying you'd want that for Season Five makes sense. So my apologies for my bad. Because although I like Cyma's ideas more, I can't say I don't like yours. |
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cyma
Witch
Waiting
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Post by cyma on Jun 21, 2016 4:10:42 GMT -5
Oh wow, I'm not actually sure, although I know I'd make it radically different. Let's see, generally I'd say: - Definitely no Cole. I'd have it be assumed that his appearance on Earth to save Phoebe from Jackman was a temporary astral projection and that he was unable to return fully. - Keep Phoebe with Miles, don't kill him off. I liked them together. - Remove Phoebe's 'celebrity status' and have her get frequent premonitions about her readers instead, who she would subsequently visit and help. It would get her mind off Cole and remind her of her purpose. - None of Piper whining that she is the first woman alive to have a child. Her baby can have the forcefield but no more Super Womb antics, especially RAISING THE DEAD - Paige keeps her job: the Source is dead, why is she focusing on the Craft now? Much like Phoebe, she would regularly help Innocents through her work. And in terms of an actual story-arc for the premiere, I would've loved the sisters to 'go back' to the homeland of their ancestors (the Scottish Highlands in my head canon) and learn that the origins of Witchcraft come from the ancient Druids. This would be like a 'Part Two' to 'All Halliwell's Eve' as it would let Paige have that experience too. It would also be a crucial bonding experience for the three of them. As a finale to the season and possibly the show, I'd of course love the sisters reunited with Prue. My episode idea is of the Crone kidnapping Piper in preparation for her giving birth on the Festival of Lights (in place of Cronus). However, she loses a lot of blood and begins to slowly die. She has a 'Seven Year Witch' moment and meets Prue. As she slips in and out of consciousness, Prue comes and goes. When Piper is 'awake', Prue is revealed to be working with Cole, who is teaching her how to project herself to Piper. Meanwhile, Phoebe and Paige have been left powerless by the Northern Lights but by using the knowledge they learned from their visit to Scotland they tap into the natural magic of the Sabbath and achieve a 'Forever Charmed'-style time-hop and meet Past Prue circa 2001. They warn her that Piper and her child are in danger in the present and that they need her so that they can use the Power of Three to vanquish the Crone. Meanwhile, in the Cosmic Void, Cole explains that he got trapped between Earth and the Wasteland after saving Phoebe from Jackman. He suggest to Prue that her being able to communicate to Piper might mean that the sisters can resurrect them both. Prue admits it is tempting but makes Cole accept that he is meant to die, just like she was. He finally moves on and just as Past Prue, Phoebe and Paige come to vanquish the Crone, Piper gives birth and Prue's soul also moves on, the implication being that she has been reborn in Piper's newborn daughter (*sorry Super Wyatt*). This also causes Past Prue to vanish back to her time. Sweet, simple and focuses on the four sisters. No need for a family reunion and Cole also gets some decent closure/redemption without pulling focus. This could even serve as a very enjoyable series finale. But I would prefer one more season with the Chris travelling back in time storyline. That way, we get three Paige seasons and three Prue seasons. After that, if there's a spin-off or even a time-jump where the kids are grown-up and the series is more focused about the next generation, I won’t mind as long as the four sisters all get decent closure in season 6. I can't speak about what would happen in it but I know the ending would have Phoebe finding out she was infertile I'm spiteful I know. I think it’s believable that Seer’s dark magic to help conceive Baby Lucifer and then steal it from Phoebe caused permanent damage which won’t allow her to have kids anymore. It could even explain Phoebe’s sudden out of character hatred for Cole too which came out of nowhere in Season 5. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2016 12:20:29 GMT -5
When a seasons starts with a Little Mermaid rip-off, that's a clear sign that things are not gonna get any better.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2016 12:32:05 GMT -5
This could even serve as a very enjoyable series finale. But I would prefer one more season with the Chris travelling back in time storyline. That way, we get three Paige seasons and three Prue seasons. After that, if there's a spin-off or even a time-jump where the kids are grown-up and the series is more focused about the next generation, I won’t mind as long as the four sisters all get decent closure in season 6. You're right, it would be nice to have Prue and Paige have 3 seasons each. I held back some of my other ideas for Season 5 because they would require some tweaking of the end of Season 4, and presumably the purpose of this thread was to not to "change" anything pre-Season 5. But anyway, you've got me interested in discussing, Cyma, so I'll just share them anyway: In order to have a Season 5 & 6, I would postpone my 'Coming Home' episodes (trip to Scotland premiere and saving Prue's soul finale) until Season 6 and make Season 5 Chris-centric instead. I'd love to see Phoebe remain pregnant with the Phoetus from the end of Season 4, with Piper falling pregnant mid-way through Season 5. Meanwhile, Chris' 'Mystery Traveller' arc would be more, well... mysterious. It would hinted at early on that he is one of the Charmed Ones' son, most likely the Phoetus (no Whitelighter alias), but when Piper falls pregnant this becomes questionable. Meanwhile, Paige is promoted to a social worker and meets Kyle Brody - who is an amalgamation of Kyle and Richard in my head canon - a witch and a cop, but his obsession with the the Avatars (yep, they're in this season) and his increasing reliance on nefarious magical practices makes him more of a trainwreck than both characters. The finale of Season 5 would see Chris murdered by the Avatars for trying to ruin Utopia.... (in my version, Gideon is Head Avatar). ....And the twist is that Chris was never Phoebe's nor Piper's son, but Paige and Richard's. Of course, they learn this just as he dies which sends Kyle on a power freak-out (God style - without the sh*tty costume) forcing Paige to strip his powers. Then Season 6 would start with my Scotland trip premiere - a good regroup and 'back to basics' episode for the sisters - and then the season and series would end with the saving Prue as Piper's daughter is born. |
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Post by sol on Jun 29, 2016 1:03:08 GMT -5
Well, they completed their destiny, so they shouldn't have need The Power of Three as much, so she could focus on her work and help. Because the Elders started doing that to her at some point. Let her do it on her own terms. And that's what I hated most about Season Four (among a ton of things), the way it messed up S5-8. Getting rid of the Source did NOT complete their destiny, not unless getting rid of him means that the magical world would never harm anyone nonmagical again, and as we saw in S5-8, that very simply wasn't the case. Their destiny was to protect innocents; ie, those innocent of the existence of magic. That did not stop when they got rid of the Source, or rather, it should not have stopped when they got rid of he Source. So Paige continuing her social work where she could've met people who others thought had problems when their problems were actually magical is exactly what Season Five needed after the horror of what was S4 - the continuation of their destiny, not the startup of a new one - protecting the Twice-Blessed Brat. The prophecy speaks of the most powerful witches ever seen, not witches that will defeat the Source, the witches aren't soldiers who fight evil, but good people who help others Probably the chaos in Underworld after the defeat of the Source has protected many innocent from evil and the season 5 should have been more focused on the lives of the sisters, particularly on how,after the days of frantic attacks and battles, continue a life with the knowledge of Prue's loss I didn't mind or the mermaid, I like the episode and even about Cole, but I'ld rather have a slow development of relations with Paige, less magical community, more innocents to be saved |
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Post by West on Jun 29, 2016 9:58:43 GMT -5
And that's what I hated most about Season Four (among a ton of things), the way it messed up S5-8. Getting rid of the Source did NOT complete their destiny, not unless getting rid of him means that the magical world would never harm anyone nonmagical again, and as we saw in S5-8, that very simply wasn't the case. Their destiny was to protect innocents; ie, those innocent of the existence of magic. That did not stop when they got rid of the Source, or rather, it should not have stopped when they got rid of he Source. So Paige continuing her social work where she could've met people who others thought had problems when their problems were actually magical is exactly what Season Five needed after the horror of what was S4 - the continuation of their destiny, not the startup of a new one - protecting the Twice-Blessed Brat. The prophecy speaks of the most powerful witches ever seen, not witches that will defeat the Source, the witches aren't soldiers who fight evil, but good people who help others Probably the chaos in Underworld after the defeat of the Source has protected many innocent from evil and the season 5 should have been more focused on the lives of the sisters, particularly on how,after the days of frantic attacks and battles, continue a life with the knowledge of Prue's loss I didn't mind or the mermaid, I like the episode and even about Cole, but I'ld rather have a slow development of relations with Paige, less magical community, more innocents to be saved Definitely back to innocents. Makes so much sense to go back to basics. I so would prefer innocents needing saving over the magical community. I dont hate the mermaid episode so much, but it is not a favorite of mine in my season 5 top 8. I just cant stand celebrity Phoebe's debut, Paige quitting her job and Leo watching Piper as a child when I was under the impression he was assigned much later. |
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Post by unakite on Jul 6, 2016 23:55:06 GMT -5
The use of the magic community shows how hastily and at the last moment the season was written
They hade three stories to lead: the end of Phoebe and Cole's love story, Piper's pregnancy, the inclusion of Paige in the family dynamics
Thinking of the days after Prue's killing as a long run (the Source's attack, Cole's coming over the dark side, Phoebe's foolhardy choices, the abysmal loss of the baby)in season five the sisters would have to take back their lives and it would have been more logical for Paige to go away, to take time to reflect, to take a breath
Piper and Phoebe wento to the world of magic by helping innocent, performing actions that gave them the joy of helping, Paige was thrown into a risky world of murderous demons
Paige needed to discover the light side of magic to come to a decision, she needed time
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Aaeiyn
Elder
✨The Amazing Phoebe✨
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Post by Aaeiyn on Aug 22, 2021 5:27:48 GMT -5
The only thing I would tweak is removing Cole from S5. His dark story doesn't belong in all the "fluff" the show was moving towards.
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I'm spiteful I know. 
