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Post by unakite on Sept 8, 2016 17:25:27 GMT -5
I think that this episode has been underestimated
I like it for some reasons
-Leo: I didn't like him as Elder and I was comforted when he turned human again
Leo has so recovered that sweetness and that patience that I had loved in the first seasons
In Imaginary Friends he is able to stop an evil Wyatt simply using his power as father, a wonderful father
In Vaya con Leos, full of enthusiasm for the old car to fix, he is adorable
-Piper: the shy Piper who did not dare to speak to her boss
is vanished
The motherhood,the loss of the shelter that Prue was for her, to have faced death many times, years of battles and the self-assurance of her fire power have created a woman able to face whoever, without fear or respect: a lioness
-The Angel of Death: pale and emotionless, he proves to be almost a friend
-The bond between the sisters: when the situation is serious, their unique link resurrects
-The Han Solo situation: I like that little homage
-The distress regarding the news of a new Big Bad
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Post by sol on Sept 14, 2016 1:33:29 GMT -5
I agree, Elder Leo wasn't the true Leo
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Post by Chrisaholic on Sept 15, 2016 9:12:09 GMT -5
It was a strong episode and showed a lot of what the sisters were originally. Yet I'd have expected for Piper to take care of her boys and not their aunt. No offense, but I still think so.
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Post by Chris on Sept 15, 2016 9:43:32 GMT -5
It was a strong episode and showed a lot of what the sisters were originally. Yet I'd have expected for Piper to take care of her boys and not their aunt. No offense, but I still think so. This is something I agree with. While I love Vaya Con Leos and Holly and Brian's acting in this episode, I always thought it was weird they had Phoebe with the boys. Like, they could have had Phoebe doing something else while Piper had the boys in the garage or something like that... Le sigh... I dunno. |
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Sept 15, 2016 10:21:40 GMT -5
-The Han Solo situation: I like that little homage I HATED that homage the way so many fans hate Magic School for being a so-called homage to Hogswart, especially because in "The Empire Strikes Back", Leia is losing the one she's just realized she loves. Piper is losing her little errand boy, the only Leo who she really loved. That's what I hated most about that episode, trying to make it out that this is as great of a love story as Han and Leia when they'd turned Elder Leo into her own little errand boy, the only Leo Piper ever truly loved. To compare the two love stories was disgusting. If they'd shown them totally in love and not when if Leo had had a few more balls, he would've taken his sons and walk out on his shrew of a wife, I would've enjoyed this episode (and S8) a whole lot more. I wish Leo had stayed dead after the car accident so Piper could truly find out what she had lost - the perfect ending for her - a widow - it would've made the flashforward make so much more sense and be so much more poignant, especially if she never remarried - or even better if it had worked out so she was the one with Henry, and Leo (who is once more a whitelighter and didn't show up until after Piper married Henry and happily living her normal life) ended up with Paige while Phoebe remained a single mother with Ladybug, since I can't see her staying with Coop once she had her. Of course, this is all just my own opinion, but especially when I'm watching TNT and watching 'Forever Crap', I mean 'Forever Piper', I mean 'Forever Charmed' is followed by 'Something Wicca This Way Comes' and see the person Piper started off being, I can't help wishing Piper had never gotten her sappy ending. |
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Post by unakite on Sept 15, 2016 22:22:23 GMT -5
-The Han Solo situation: I like that little homage I HATED that homage the way so many fans hate Magic School for being a so-called homage to Hogswart, especially because in "The Empire Strikes Back", Leia is losing the one she's just realized she loves. Piper is losing her little errand boy, the only Leo who she really loved. That's what I hated most about that episode, trying to make it out that this is as great of a love story as Han and Leia when they'd turned Elder Leo into her own little errand boy, the only Leo Piper ever truly loved. To compare the two love stories was disgusting. If they'd shown them totally in love and not when if Leo had had a few more balls, he would've taken his sons and walk out on his shrew of a wife, I would've enjoyed this episode (and S8) a whole lot more. I wish Leo had stayed dead after the car accident so Piper could truly find out what she had lost - the perfect ending for her - a widow - it would've made the flashforward make so much more sense and be so much more poignant, especially if she never remarried - or even better if it had worked out so she was the one with Henry, and Leo (who is once more a whitelighter and didn't show up until after Piper married Henry and happily living her normal life) ended up with Paige while Phoebe remained a single mother with Ladybug, since I can't see her staying with Coop once she had her. Of course, this is all just my own opinion, but especially when I'm watching TNT and watching 'Forever Crap', I mean 'Forever Piper', I mean 'Forever Charmed' is followed by 'Something Wicca This Way Comes' and see the person Piper started off being, I can't help wishing Piper had never gotten her sappy ending. I like your passion I am romantic, I am always touched for the farewell between Han and Leia But I also had a father, journalist and writer, capable of leaving cups of coffee or plates in every room in the house in wait for my mother homecoming from work: can't stand this kind of men Human again, Leo needed time to organize his future and seeing that Piper was working, it was right thet Leo looked after his sons Piper worked, shopped, cooked, stitched, cleaned the house, she had every right to demand help |
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Post by Esmeralda on Sept 15, 2016 23:28:56 GMT -5
I HATED that homage the way so many fans hate Magic School for being a so-called homage to Hogswart, especially because in "The Empire Strikes Back", Leia is losing the one she's just realized she loves. Piper is losing her little errand boy, the only Leo who she really loved. That's what I hated most about that episode, trying to make it out that this is as great of a love story as Han and Leia when they'd turned Elder Leo into her own little errand boy, the only Leo Piper ever truly loved. To compare the two love stories was disgusting. If they'd shown them totally in love and not when if Leo had had a few more balls, he would've taken his sons and walk out on his shrew of a wife, I would've enjoyed this episode (and S8) a whole lot more. I wish Leo had stayed dead after the car accident so Piper could truly find out what she had lost - the perfect ending for her - a widow - it would've made the flashforward make so much more sense and be so much more poignant, especially if she never remarried - or even better if it had worked out so she was the one with Henry, and Leo (who is once more a whitelighter and didn't show up until after Piper married Henry and happily living her normal life) ended up with Paige while Phoebe remained a single mother with Ladybug, since I can't see her staying with Coop once she had her. Of course, this is all just my own opinion, but especially when I'm watching TNT and watching 'Forever Crap', I mean 'Forever Piper', I mean 'Forever Charmed' is followed by 'Something Wicca This Way Comes' and see the person Piper started off being, I can't help wishing Piper had never gotten her sappy ending. I like your passion I am romantic, I am always touched for the farewell between Han and Leia But I also had a father, journalist and writer, capable of leaving cups of coffee or plates in every room in the house in wait for my mother homecoming from work: can't stand this kind of men Human again, Leo needed time to organize his future and seeing that Piper was working, it was right thet Leo looked after his sons Piper worked, shopped, cooked, stitched, cleaned the house, she had every right to demand help Want help, sure. Demand help, no. Especially not from someone who had been raised in the 1900-1920's where the man was the one who went out and provided for the family while the woman stayed home and took care of the kids. And yet he gave up his wings, his calling, his powers, all for love of her and now he has no powers and no identity and she couldn't understand how much it must have hurt him to be put in that role? If this particular set of scenes was not part of the series, if it didn't happen so soon before "Vaya con Leos" I'd probably agree with you. As is, I can't. Source: Kill Billie, Vol 1That’s when he should’ve started walking and just kept on walking, into the car, into the street and CRASH! No more Leo. Believe me, I’m as much of a romantic as the next person but there was absolutely nothing romantic between Leo and Piper between this episode and ‘Vaya con Leos’ (This was Episode 8.06; Vaya con Leos was Episode 8.10) and those dagnab writers have the NERVE to compare this so-called great love story with ‘The Empire Strikes Back’, one of the most beautiful, heartwarming scenes ever when she's so upset by what's happening to Han as compared to Piper who was so upset by what's happening to her??? Oh, let's all feel sorry for poor, poor pitiful Piper! GRRRRRRRR! Believe me, it's because their love story was so beautiful in Season One (but only Season One...) that I'm so passionate in my hatred for her in Season Eight. |
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Sept 16, 2016 4:43:27 GMT -5
Yeah second half season seven time when Leo became human was when I started not liking his character so much then especially the way Piper treated him thinking he could do everything now 'cause he had no own responsibilities or anything when she should've helped Leo adjust back into society which can be scary for anyone not used to that anyway whilst sharing raising Wyatt and Chris and household duties to though I didn't mind him running magic school which gave Leo some purpose I suppose putting his experience to good use at least which didn't save him season 8 though when there were no classes then you could have almost cutted him that year in a sense.
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Post by magena on Sept 16, 2016 10:17:50 GMT -5
That discussion between Piper and Leo is typical of a couple in which one of the two works a lot more than the other
It was the same old story in my family and I always though that my mom was right demanding help to my dad
I found this in Desperate Housewitches
Piper: The... green thing is the stem, the stem of the pumpkin I was up all night making.
Up all night to sew a pumpkin costume, then to cook for all family, take care of their home - clean, pay the bills- take care of P3
Piper has always done too much
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Sept 17, 2016 20:25:04 GMT -5
But that's the whole point. They're *not* an ordinary couple - and the episode you're talking about came before this one - this is the one that totally turned me off of Piper and made me hate the show trying to compare their relationship with 'The Empire Strikes Back'. All those things she did - she *wanted* to do. I can't see a man who was raised in the 20's and 30's and who once had so much power and who had given all of that up, all for love of her, wanting to be emasculated the way she emasculated him.
Had he been given an identity when he lost his wings so he could've gone out and find a job as would happen with a normal couple when one of them loses their job, then it would be totally different, but that's not what happened and I truly think Piper should've been much more understanding. She never showed any respect for the the ones she's supposed to love so much.
By the way, I hope you're enjoying this discussion as much as I am - I love it when people with opposing opinions can discuss such things as adults rather than it becoming an argument because they can't accept the fact that the other might not feel the same way they do.
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Post by unakite on Sept 20, 2016 4:34:17 GMT -5
I think Leo needed time
After leaving the Elder status, he worked briefly in the magic School and in the flash forward he was again a teacher
Zankou interrupted the trial stage of Piper and Leo to a new situation, one in which finally they lived always together without magical interference
Living together is not easy, it takes time before everybody had an own task and everything run smoothly
I'm sure that if Leo had decided to go back to school, as did Phoebe, Piper would have promote it
Me too
This board is always a hive of ideas, even though not everything is shareable, it is very stimulating
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Post by ryang on Feb 12, 2019 23:14:12 GMT -5
The really anoyting thing was that this storyline was uncesary. It never made sense to me why Leo had to be frozen to help the sisters in their final battle. They didn’t have to write Leo into all episodes, like Darryl or Cole: just write into 9 or 10 episodes in which Leo appears and leave it alone. I would have been much happier...
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Feb 12, 2019 23:28:59 GMT -5
The really anoyting thing was that this storyline was uncesary. It never made sense to me why Leo had to be frozen to help the sisters in their final battle. They didn’t have to write Leo into all episodes, like Darryl or Cole: just write into 9 or 10 episodes in which Leo appears and leave it alone. I would have been much happier... They just did it so they wouldn't have to pay Brian Krause. But I agree - totally unnecessary - no way Piper should've needed her husband taken away in order to battle evil. And if she didn't, Leo could've been part of every episode. The same is true for Darryl. Darryl was part of the first episode and what they did to him and his family was totally horrible! He should've been part of the final episode. But again - they didn't want to have to pay Dorian Gregory. Instead they paid all of those guest stars, most who were the ones who I thought were unnecessary. The ones who truly shouldn't have been part of it were Billie and Christy - the last season should've been about the CHARMED ONES, not TWO witches who were more powerful than they! Although as far as I'm concerned, what was truly unnecessary was Season Eight...well, no, IMOHO, Seasons Four through Eight were! By the way, RyanG, welcome to the Cafe! |
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Post by summerreading on Feb 13, 2019 1:05:47 GMT -5
The really anoyting thing was that this storyline was uncesary. It never made sense to me why Leo had to be frozen to help the sisters in their final battle. They didn’t have to write Leo into all episodes, like Darryl or Cole: just write into 9 or 10 episodes in which Leo appears and leave it alone. I would have been much happier... They just did it so they wouldn't have to pay Brian Krause. But I agree - totally unnecessary - no way Piper should've needed her husband taken away in order to battle evil. And if she didn't, Leo could've been part of every episode. The same is true for Darryl. Darryl was part of the first episode and what they did to him and his family was totally horrible! He should've been part of the final episode. But again - they didn't want to have to pay Dorian Gregory. Instead they paid all of those guest stars, most who were the ones who I thought were unnecessary. The ones who truly shouldn't have been part of it were Billie and Christy - the last season should've been about the CHARMED ONES, not TWO witches who were more powerful than they! Although as far as I'm concerned, what was truly unnecessary was Season Eight...well, no, IMOHO, Seasons Four through Eight were! By the way, RyanG, welcome to the Cafe! Too bad, they should have paid to have Darryl and just not bothered with Chris and Wyatt for instance, but I'm sure most of their fans begged for them to appear. But Darryl was in the show for 7 years, and the actor playing Adult Wyatt had only been in 3 episodes. Personally, I felt the finale was overcrowded with all the special guests, and much rather they have gone the way of SWTWG, where they only had the characters who were alive in the finale and included Victor only. Welcome, RyanG to the Cafe!  |
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Post by ryang on Feb 14, 2019 12:56:53 GMT -5
The really anoyting thing was that this storyline was uncesary. It never made sense to me why Leo had to be frozen to help the sisters in their final battle. They didn’t have to write Leo into all episodes, like Darryl or Cole: just write into 9 or 10 episodes in which Leo appears and leave it alone. I would have been much happier... They just did it so they wouldn't have to pay Brian Krause. But I agree - totally unnecessary - no way Piper should've needed her husband taken away in order to battle evil. And if she didn't, Leo could've been part of every episode. That would make sense. Though, I always assumed that when an actor didn't appear in an episode, they weren't paid, which was why whenever Dan, Darryl, Chris, Cole, etc. didn't appear in an episode, s/he was removed from the opening credits. Under that assumption, Brian could have just done: 8.01, 8.02, 8.04, 8.07, 8.10, 8.11, 8.16, 8.18, 8.19, 8.20, 8.21, and 8.22 - then come up with some silly line that "he's a magic school or something" or put him in witness protection for an episode or two to protect him from a demon, OR have a demon kidnap him and hold him hostage. THAT would have made more sense. It's like the writers didn't even sit down to discuss other possibilities.
Thank you all for the welcome well-wishes. I've been reading awhile and I decided I should chime in once in awhile.
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Post by Ruth Marie on Feb 14, 2019 15:18:26 GMT -5
They just did it so they wouldn't have to pay Brian Krause. But I agree - totally unnecessary - no way Piper should've needed her husband taken away in order to battle evil. And if she didn't, Leo could've been part of every episode. That would make sense. Though, I always assumed that when an actor didn't appear in an episode, they weren't paid, which was why whenever Dan, Darryl, Chris, Cole, etc. didn't appear in an episode, s/he was removed from the opening credits. Under that assumption, Brian could have just done: 8.01, 8.02, 8.04, 8.07, 8.10, 8.11, 8.16, 8.18, 8.19, 8.20, 8.21, and 8.22 - then come up with some silly line that "he's a magic school or something" or put him in witness protection for an episode or two to protect him from a demon, OR have a demon kidnap him and hold him hostage. THAT would have made more sense. It's like the writers didn't even sit down to discuss other possibilities.
Thank you all for the welcome well-wishes. I've been reading awhile and I decided I should chime in once in awhile.
Welcome to the Cafe. Happy posting! They could of found ways. Like apart from Leo, All the other supporting actor were never in every episode. So they always have done it before. They could have found a way around it. Maybe he and the boys went away for safety reasons with the final battle or a demon came after one of the boys and Leo took them away for a while to be safe. Anything like that. I always wish they did that with Leo in all the seasons and not put him into all the episodes. Especially S6 the most. Too bad we didn't get enough episodes where only the sisters were the only ones appearing in an episode and credits. I think 70s Episode was the only one, unless you count little Andy. Morality Bites was the rare one in credits but Leo was in it as a guest. |
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Post by ryang on Feb 14, 2019 17:16:40 GMT -5
The only exception was Hyde School Reunion where Leo was absent and still in the credits.
I do love the idea of not having Leo in all episodes.
While time travel episodes had the worst continuity errors, they were good for focusing on only the sisters.
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