Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920 
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Post by Esmeralda on Aug 29, 2017 17:50:12 GMT -5
I think we're giving The Source too much credit here, he showed himself to be completely inept with every plan he implemented. I just think he got lucky when when he sent his assassin after the doctor and got Prue as well. ROFL, I think you're absolutely right about that. I wonder how he managed to be the Source that long. Although that was mainly Half-Face who was that inept. Somehow I don't think the one in S3 would've been that bad, and he's the one who would've sent Shax. I refuse to accept both Sources as the same person - part of S4-8 being an alternate-universe spin-off. |
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Post by sol on Aug 31, 2017 0:31:01 GMT -5
I believe that a great power wears out who has it
But how can we know how much harmful the Power of Three was destined to become?
We saw in Morality Bites how much had grown the sisters's power, so that even Phoebe can manage a deadly power
The power of the Three at that point had to be something scary, as much as Wyatt's power seen by Crone
As many Elders feared Wyatt's power, I believe that many Elders also feared the sisters: this could explain why the sisters were left alone and the Cleaners didn't intervene, when the magic was exposed and Prue was left to die
They had not considered Paige but no matter, with Paige the power of the Three was at least weakened
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Post by erikamarie on Aug 31, 2017 4:19:57 GMT -5
Like this theory
This could explain the sudden and undue Grams's decision to destroy the sisters's powers, maybe she was under some brainwashing by the Elders
The Elders never helped and always tried to frighten off the sisters
When they saw a glimmer of the possibility that there was still a link between Phoebe and Cole, here it comes Coop, a cupid able to understand exactly what Phoebe needed, which no man, though deeply in love, can be capable of doing
When Zankou was about to destroy the sisters, they did not even take care of healing Piper's wound
When Paige tried to go back to a normal witch life, here it comes a whitelighter role
When the Manor was destroyed, the Elders not even sent anyone to see if they were survived or injured
If they were linked, how could nobody know of Gideon's awful fellowships?
And why they weren't able to help Prue and Piper, when the time rewinded?
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Post by morrigan on Aug 31, 2017 19:41:13 GMT -5
Well something for sure is going on regarding Cole. Nobody takes it into consideration how Cole did become good and ultimately was only the Source because he saved their asses from the Hollow. Something had to be going on there unless the sisters are kind of jerks who forget the good someone has done the minute life gets rough for them. In rewatching the series, I was kind of appalled at how Cole got such a bad end of the stick and it all came out of saving them. I would prefer some interference there rather than think they didn't just write off the fact that he saved them from something they could not save themselves from.
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Post by sol on Sept 1, 2017 0:49:24 GMT -5
If Cole had told the sisters what the Seer said, together they'ld find a way to neutralize the Hollow
But he didn't, I think because he was suffering for the lack of powers
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Post by Elle Em on Sept 1, 2017 7:21:34 GMT -5
If Cole had told the sisters what the Seer said, together they'ld find a way to neutralize the Hollow But he didn't, I think because he was suffering for the lack of powers I agree completely with this. I just watched Charmed and Dangerous, and at the end of the episode, Cole seems to be in perfect control. He could have easily said something to any of the sisters when he realized he had the powers. But he didn't want to. In the few episodes prior to this one, Cole is absolutely lost. I don't think he ever did much real work as a DA, and he also told Phoebe after trying to work at legal aid that he didn't think the 9-5 lifestyle was for him. He also went out and bought a gun (which I agree with Phoebe and Paige was a bad idea), and he was made to give it up almost immediately. He tried to help Darryl at the police station and got told no. He truly did make an effort. It doesn't justify him keeping his new powers a secret, but he really was going through a very difficult time. I can understand that with losing Prue, finding Paige, and having to worry about the Source that none of the sisters' focuses were on Cole and helping him find a new path in life without powers. But I can also understand that Cole needed guidance after 100 years of being a demon and now being completely powerless. Ultimately, I understand why Cole didn't tell them about the powers, but I don't think it was right. I don't think he was influenced to the point of being unable to tell them either, at least at the beginning. And another thing: one of them actually asked the Seer where the Source's powers went since Piper and Paige got their powers back. So they knew the Source's powers were still alive, even if they didn't believe them to be a threat. Yet they just go to P3 like there's nothing left to resolve. |
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Post by gzv969 on Sept 1, 2017 14:16:43 GMT -5
Once the Sources powers got in him he was possessed. The Source began suppressing his human half and blocking him from revealing anything to the sisters of what had happened to him. Cole wanted to say but couldn't.
If you watch the beginning of "The three faces of phoebe" Cole has that dream sort of based on reality where his human side is fighting the evil Source side of him and his evil side kills his human side and says "we are one now". The source had taken total control of him. The Source also magically blocked phoebes premonitions from surfacing that had to do with Cole being the Source.
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Sept 1, 2017 17:56:10 GMT -5
No, he was *not* possessed.
He was influenced by the powers of the Source which went out of the Hollow and into Cole at the time that Phoebe and the Seer returned the Hollow to the box. Remember? All the Hollow could do was consume powers - and when the Hollow was returned to its box, the powers went back to their original owners, but the Source's powers couldn't - because the Source had been vanquished, proof that it was never the Source possessing Cole. Instead, the powers went into the void - the part of Cole's soul that was once Belthazor and evil.
At the time those powers went into him, he became the Source, but he was always still Cole - it's why he still wanted Phoebe - the Source wouldn't have - the Source would've killed Phoebe and/or Piper and/or Paige to get rid of the Power of Three. The fact that he didn't is yet more proof that it was *not* the original Source doing that - it was Cole.
That dream was just that - him seeing the powers as separate from him, when they were influencing him, giving him the excuse to do what he wanted to do, the same way the Phoetus influenced Phoebe and gave her an excuse to do what she did.
Think of 'Charmed Again, Part Two." Shane was possessed by the Source - there was no Shane there; it was totally the Source possessing Shane's body. Paige was influenced by the Source. She still had the choice, just like Cole still had the choice. But once Cole found out he could have those powers *and* Phoebe as his wife *and* his son as his heir, he truly became the Source - but he was always still Cole. If he wasn't, he'd be possessed. As was, he was just influenced, making the choice to be evil the same way Paige made the choice to be good.
Had he told the others about those powers influencing him and had the sisters still refused to help him, then it would've been the sisters' fault. As was, it was all him, because he *didn't* tell them, because he did not like being a weak mortal. The powers made him strong, even though they also made him evil. But he made the choice to be a strong, evil demon rather than a weak, good mortal.
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Post by lordumbrex on Sept 2, 2017 0:33:42 GMT -5
The dialogue within Charmed says it was a possession. You want to believe it was Cole as the Source? Go for it, that's a headcanon that needs to be massaged, but if you want to believe it, go for it. But...the dialogue is clear on the fact that Cole, while acting as the body of the Source, was possessed by something: could it be the demon that embodied the Source prior? Sure. Could it be an ancient ether that is handed down from Source to Source, assimilating all the powers and character of the new embodiment? Sure. Could it have been both, as in both the ether and the former demon? Yes, but either way, the dialogue is clear: Cole was possessed.
Quoting myself from another thread:
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Post by gzv969 on Sept 2, 2017 14:51:57 GMT -5
No, he was *not* possessed. He was influenced by the powers of the Source which went out of the Hollow and into Cole at the time that Phoebe and the Seer returned the Hollow to the box. Remember? All the Hollow could do was consume powers - and when the Hollow was returned to its box, the powers went back to their original owners, but the Source's powers couldn't - because the Source had been vanquished, proof that it was never the Source possessing Cole. Instead, the powers went into the void - the part of Cole's soul that was once Belthazor and evil. At the time those powers went into him, he became the Source, but he was always still Cole - it's why he still wanted Phoebe - the Source wouldn't have - the Source would've killed Phoebe and/or Piper and/or Paige to get rid of the Power of Three. The fact that he didn't is yet more proof that it was *not* the original Source doing that - it was Cole. That dream was just that - him seeing the powers as separate from him, when they were influencing him, giving him the excuse to do what he wanted to do, the same way the Phoetus influenced Phoebe and gave her an excuse to do what she did. Think of 'Charmed Again, Part Two." Shane was possessed by the Source - there was no Shane there; it was totally the Source possessing Shane's body. Paige was influenced by the Source. She still had the choice, just like Cole still had the choice. But once Cole found out he could have those powers *and* Phoebe as his wife *and* his son as his heir, he truly became the Source - but he was always still Cole. If he wasn't, he'd be possessed. As was, he was just influenced, making the choice to be evil the same way Paige made the choice to be good. Had he told the others about those powers influencing him and had the sisters still refused to help him, then it would've been the sisters' fault. As was, it was all him, because he *didn't* tell them, because he did not like being a weak mortal. The powers made him strong, even though they also made him evil. But he made the choice to be a strong, evil demon rather than a weak, good mortal. There was also the dialogue Between Cole and the Seer when cole told her that her plan would fail. That phoebe figured a way to get the truth. That she summoned herself from the future to tell her what he Cannot. So why cant cole not tell Phoebe about himself? it's because the Source won't let him |
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Post by gzv969 on Sept 2, 2017 14:53:16 GMT -5
No, he was *not* possessed. He was influenced by the powers of the Source which went out of the Hollow and into Cole at the time that Phoebe and the Seer returned the Hollow to the box. Remember? All the Hollow could do was consume powers - and when the Hollow was returned to its box, the powers went back to their original owners, but the Source's powers couldn't - because the Source had been vanquished, proof that it was never the Source possessing Cole. Instead, the powers went into the void - the part of Cole's soul that was once Belthazor and evil. At the time those powers went into him, he became the Source, but he was always still Cole - it's why he still wanted Phoebe - the Source wouldn't have - the Source would've killed Phoebe and/or Piper and/or Paige to get rid of the Power of Three. The fact that he didn't is yet more proof that it was *not* the original Source doing that - it was Cole. That dream was just that - him seeing the powers as separate from him, when they were influencing him, giving him the excuse to do what he wanted to do, the same way the Phoetus influenced Phoebe and gave her an excuse to do what she did. Think of 'Charmed Again, Part Two." Shane was possessed by the Source - there was no Shane there; it was totally the Source possessing Shane's body. Paige was influenced by the Source. She still had the choice, just like Cole still had the choice. But once Cole found out he could have those powers *and* Phoebe as his wife *and* his son as his heir, he truly became the Source - but he was always still Cole. If he wasn't, he'd be possessed. As was, he was just influenced, making the choice to be evil the same way Paige made the choice to be good. Had he told the others about those powers influencing him and had the sisters still refused to help him, then it would've been the sisters' fault. As was, it was all him, because he *didn't* tell them, because he did not like being a weak mortal. The powers made him strong, even though they also made him evil. But he made the choice to be a strong, evil demon rather than a weak, good mortal. There was also the dialogue Between Cole and the Seer when cole told her that her plan would fail. That phoebe figured a way to get the truth. That she summoned herself from the future to tell her what he can't. So why can't cole not tell Phoebe about himself? it's because the Source won't let him |
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Sept 2, 2017 15:03:04 GMT -5
It just all depends upon how you interpret it.
If you want to interpret that to mean he was possessed and no longer Cole - go for it. But if you think that was truly Cole saying all of that, like I think, then he was influenced by the powers and gave in to those influences - and his own fault for giving in - not possessed, which would not be his fault, the way what Shane did wasn't his fault but had Paige actually orbed that man's heart into her hand, it would've been her fault. All of that is pure canon and what happened right away, so that's what should've been followed.
If it wasn't - the writers' fault, not the show's or this viewer's, the same way as I'll always count Victor's last name as Halliwell and not Bennett.
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Post by adzpower on Sept 2, 2017 17:36:56 GMT -5
I think it was the powers, the way the show told it, every time there was a new source, they were coronated and and during that coronation they received the powers of the source, but Cole didn't become The Source like that, because thanks to The Hollow and The Seer, he got the previous Source's powers, and those possessed AND influenced him, they played on the part of his brain that believed he could never be a good, powerless mortal, add to that the powers themselves were evil, came to being via an evil ritual etc, there was no way he wasn't going to become evil from them.
Phoebe's potion left a void in him, the void that his demon half had previously filled, and The Source's power filled that void and took him over, or at least influenced him to give into his immoral, evil tendencies.
Its a difficult theory to unanimously agree on because the show doea a bad job of explaining things, was it still Cole? Maybe at first, but he didn't tell them, and he had plenty of chances to do so, that's when he was fighting the influence of the power, but soon it assimilated into him, filled the void and cemented him as The Source.
So in short, I don't think the actual Source himself is a being, I think its the powers themselves that give a demon that level of power and status, but they are rooted in evil, some demons accept them straight away because they want them and are evil in the first place, Cole was a different story, he wanted to be good for Phoebe, and that human part of him held onto that for a small amount of time before the magic got into his system.
Remember how haggard he looked in Three Faces of Phoebe? Tired, stressed, he looked like he was fighting off an illness, and it seems in the end, the illness won. He gave in, or he didn't have the strength to continue fighting it.
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Sept 3, 2017 6:39:51 GMT -5
As long as you agree that it was the *powers* that "possessed" and influenced Cole, and not Half-face possessing him, I agree totally, because then it's him who gave into those powers because he wanted to be the Source with Phoebe as his wife and their son as his heir, so what he did was his fault.
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Post by gzv969 on Sept 3, 2017 15:33:53 GMT -5
Exactly. It's the powers/the essence of the Source that possessed Cole. And like other evil essences like the hollow and the evil side of the nexus, the possessed host has little or no control over themselves. They have no choice but to do it's bidding.
The hollow to consume power, the nexus to turn and claim the manor and the spiritual nexus for evil, and the Sources essence being pure evil, to turn whomever it inhabits eventually into pure evil.
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Post by sol on Sept 4, 2017 1:19:00 GMT -5
If Cole had told the sisters what the Seer said, together they'ld find a way to neutralize the Hollow But he didn't, I think because he was suffering for the lack of powers I agree completely with this. I just watched Charmed and Dangerous, and at the end of the episode, Cole seems to be in perfect control. He could have easily said something to any of the sisters when he realized he had the powers. But he didn't want to. In the few episodes prior to this one, Cole is absolutely lost. I don't think he ever did much real work as a DA, and he also told Phoebe after trying to work at legal aid that he didn't think the 9-5 lifestyle was for him. He also went out and bought a gun (which I agree with Phoebe and Paige was a bad idea), and he was made to give it up almost immediately. He tried to help Darryl at the police station and got told no. He truly did make an effort. It doesn't justify him keeping his new powers a secret, but he really was going through a very difficult time. I can understand that with losing Prue, finding Paige, and having to worry about the Source that none of the sisters' focuses were on Cole and helping him find a new path in life without powers. But I can also understand that Cole needed guidance after 100 years of being a demon and now being completely powerless. Ultimately, I understand why Cole didn't tell them about the powers, but I don't think it was right. I don't think he was influenced to the point of being unable to tell them either, at least at the beginning. And another thing: one of them actually asked the Seer where the Source's powers went since Piper and Paige got their powers back. So they knew the Source's powers were still alive, even if they didn't believe them to be a threat. Yet they just go to P3 like there's nothing left to resolve. We think it the same way: sometimes life runs too fast and things happen, without specific faults Drake wanted to be human, Cole in 100 years had never thought of it, after all, Cole wished onlynot to be more in the search for size hunters Neither Piper - who never wanted to be a witch - neither Phoebe or Paige were able to figure out what could mean to live without power for a powerful demon as Cole, they were naive and also too involved with their many issues to think about it About Source powers, the sisters weren't experienced , they knew very few about demoniac powers and the Elders, as always, didn't waste their energy to tthink of it So the sisters beieved the Seer, in the absence of more qualified mentors |
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thesonandheir
Innocent
"She doth teach the torches to burn bright."
Posts: 40 
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Post by thesonandheir on Oct 18, 2017 7:36:06 GMT -5
I was thinking about how they never figured out cole was Balthazar then because I would have figured it out because cole comes into the manor says he's going to use the bathroom then prue and phoebe go up to the attic and there's Balthazar trying to get the book of shadows I mean how did they not figure it out? Here are a few reasons Prue and Phoebe couldn't figure it out: -In the first episode of season 3, Phoebe had a premonition of Cole unconscious and about to be killed by a mortal murderer. -Phoebe then saved Cole from the mortal murderer. Neither she nor the guy about to kill him knew he wouldn't be killed so easily. -When Piper froze the court room, everyone except demons and mortals possessed by Guardian demons froze. Cole was among the frozen innocents. Even though he later broke through Piper’s freeze and just pretended to be frozen. No one saw him shimmer out and reappear after a few seconds. He also pretended to be hurt when Phoebe hit him on the head to try and cover up what really happened. -Phoebe had no premonitions or even nightmares of Cole turning into a demon and killing her and her sisters. Interestingly, Cole had dream of killing Phoebe, planted by a Triad guy. So there was no reason for Phoebe and Prue to figure out or even suspect Cole and Belthazor were the same just because they saw Belthazor in the attic try to steal the Book right after they let Cole use the bathroom. They didn't even know the name 'Belthazor' until later on in the Sight Unseen episode. It's then when Prue found him unconscious in the crystal cage that she began to suspect Cole maybe not what he seemed. It's surprising that neither Leo nor the Elders could figure out Cole's identity. While Cole easily figured out who Leo was by merely shaking his hand the first time. Not to mention Cole was easily able to connect the dots and figure out Piper was about to marry Leo. Something which was forbidden by the Elders. Elders in their wrath of dragging Leo away to punish him, didn't even consider how, why and which demon was behind figuring this out and whether he was a threat or not. Even after Cole traveled back in time to help turn baby Melinda Warren evil, Elders still remained clueless about it. - they were also under a spell because they needed to see the trolls |
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thesonandheir
Innocent
"She doth teach the torches to burn bright."
Posts: 40
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Post by thesonandheir on Oct 18, 2017 7:41:31 GMT -5
And they acted like little girls so they probably wouldn't be thinking straight at that moment.
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