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Post by jdpm1991 on May 14, 2017 17:02:18 GMT -5
Can someone explain why Phoebe and Paige thought the only solution was to kill Rick? Could they not had called Darryl?
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on May 15, 2017 4:25:45 GMT -5
Because they were stupid then that's why.
There were many things Phoebe and Paige could've done differently like Paige orbing the shotgun from Rick's hand before Phoebe knocking him out then calling Darryl afterward which would've been much better obviously but they'd forgotten about not punishing the guilty anyway which Phoebe had so preached about Morality Bites end.
Family was more important then hence why Rick died so to make the Scabber demons think they'd got Chris barring the fact all Rick's crimes consited of was robbery obviously.
The sisters mindset was. "We can do whatever we want without fear of consequence." Because they'd gotten away with so much already that any threat said upon was not taken seriously anyway.
Phoebe and Paige had fallen so far of the wagon then that they just did what they done because it was the first thing that came to mind which served their purpose not thinking whether it was right or wrong in the first place though.
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Post by Chrisaholic on May 15, 2017 8:55:27 GMT -5
I think it had already been a mistake to free Rick out of prison with magic. If this didn't happen, maybe the killing could have been NOT done in the end. Phoebe's own magic had influenced her mind and now she was not ready to fear the consequence finally. It was right then that the Tribunal took her powers then later on.
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ljones
Whitelighter
Posts: 4,123
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Post by ljones on May 15, 2017 19:49:11 GMT -5
They should have taken Paige's powers as well, since she was also responsible for Rick's death. Paige was not an idiot or a child. And they could have easily used a spell or whitelighter powder to erase Rick's memories of them as a witch.
No wonder I can't stand this episode.
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Post by imdb lives on on Jun 16, 2017 17:08:26 GMT -5
This was a low point for the show. He was mortal and they had powers. A hostage situation should've never been an issue.
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Post by Sadrick on Jun 17, 2017 1:42:52 GMT -5
Because they were stupid then that's why. There were many things Phoebe and Paige could've done differently like Paige orbing the shotgun from Rick's hand before Phoebe knocking him out then calling Darryl afterward which would've been much better obviously but they'd forgotten about not punishing the guilty anyway which Phoebe had so preached about Morality Bites end. Family was more important then hence why Rick died so to make the Scabber demons think they'd got Chris barring the fact all Rick's crimes consisted of was robbery obviously. Robbery? He had been convicted of three heists and, in his own words, was facing thirty to forty years in prison -- that was before he bludgeoned a prison guard unconscious with a chair, stole a gun, and proceeded to escape just so he could commit even more heinous crimes. Rick was far from being some small-time robber of convenience stores. In his own words, killing a person wasn't a foreign concept to him. Rick was a loathsome convict who demonstrated that he was capable of committing some truly despicable things -- he didn't hesitate to let one armoured vehicle guard burn to death while cocking the gun he stole in order to kill the other, even after they were knocked unconscious. Rick didn't deserve to be executed in the manner that he did. But he's far from being someone whom the sisters should spent much time grieving over. Williamson deserved that consideration far more than any human who lost their lives due to the Charmed Ones' actions. |
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Post by lilchi7212 on Jun 23, 2017 15:02:43 GMT -5
Potato Salad!
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codebox
Familiar
Hey I'm a Charmed Veteran have been for a long time. Hope to share some insight and opinions.
Posts: 287 
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Post by codebox on May 9, 2019 13:09:28 GMT -5
This is easily the worst moment in the entire show for me! It's also painful to watch considering Paige is my favorite sister. It's another instance of "Why didn't Paige just Orb X away?" seriously ALL SHE HAD TO DO WAS ORB THE GUN! I feel like after Season 5 the show forgot the telekinetic part of her power minus a few instances where it comes up, considering she'd mostly just use Potions or regularly Orb. I also had this same issue in A Witch in Time, why didn't Paige just Orb the book? This episode is completely ruined by that ending, after this point the Charmed Ones completely stop being protagonists.
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Post by Katie Warren on May 9, 2019 21:20:59 GMT -5
This is easily the worst moment in the entire show for me! It's also painful to watch considering Paige is my favorite sister. It's another instance of " Why didn't Paige just Orb X away?" seriously ALL SHE HAD TO DO WAS ORB THE GUN! I feel like after Season 5 the show forgot the telekinetic part of her power minus a few instances where it comes up, considering she'd mostly just use Potions or regularly Orb. I also had this same issue in A Witch in Time, why didn't Paige just Orb the book? This episode is completely ruined by that ending, after this point the Charmed Ones completely stop being protagonists. It really was, and the sisters should have become warlocks at that point. Did they learn nothing from Morality Bites. This season is one where all three are so unlikable and why this is just such a bad season. Yes, the Chris arc had promise, but it is by far my least liked season overall. But the Chris arc isn't my least liked arc overall, I think parts of the Cole arc are. EDIT: Maybe this thread needs to go to the S6 board. |
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codebox
Familiar
Hey I'm a Charmed Veteran have been for a long time. Hope to share some insight and opinions.
Posts: 287
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Post by codebox on May 9, 2019 21:44:09 GMT -5
This is easily the worst moment in the entire show for me! It's also painful to watch considering Paige is my favorite sister. It's another instance of " Why didn't Paige just Orb X away?" seriously ALL SHE HAD TO DO WAS ORB THE GUN! I feel like after Season 5 the show forgot the telekinetic part of her power minus a few instances where it comes up, considering she'd mostly just use Potions or regularly Orb. I also had this same issue in A Witch in Time, why didn't Paige just Orb the book? This episode is completely ruined by that ending, after this point the Charmed Ones completely stop being protagonists. It really was, and the sisters should have become warlocks at that point. Did they learn nothing from Morality Bites. This season is one where all three are so unlikable and why this is just such a bad season. Yes, the Chris arc had promise, but it is by far my least liked season overall. But the Chris arc isn't my least liked arc overall, I think parts of the Cole arc are. I agree it reminds me of The Bride and Gloom from season 3 where Piper and Phoebe transformed into Warlocks. Paige wasn't there during the events of Morality Bites, Phoebe however just became the exact persona that was executed in the future of Morality Bites by this point. If her treatment of Cole and her general self-involvedness wouldn't get her there, this certainly should have! Whinper and PhoeME are unlikable I agree. Especially PhoeME who's at her worst in this season. And while Paige has done questionable things as well I wouldn't classify her as unlikable simply for the fact that she's the only one left with a sense of morality. Aside from assisting in killing Daryl, glamouring into a woman to knock a man out with a flower pot (which would serve to frame her for assault) the adformentioned issue of killing Rick in this episode when she could've just ORBED THE GUN to solve the problem and creating her own Mr Right for a sex object there isn't any other moment where Paige becomes as insufferable especially since she's the only one left who still cares about magic and saving innocents. You have moments like Soul Survivor, Love's a Witch and the entire Richard storyline that balances out the less that pleasant stuff she did. I guess it's a mix of both perhaps? |
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Post by Katie Warren on May 9, 2019 21:53:29 GMT -5
It really was, and the sisters should have become warlocks at that point. Did they learn nothing from Morality Bites. This season is one where all three are so unlikable and why this is just such a bad season. Yes, the Chris arc had promise, but it is by far my least liked season overall. But the Chris arc isn't my least liked arc overall, I think parts of the Cole arc are. I agree it reminds me of The Bride and Gloom from season 3 where Piper and Phoebe transformed into Warlocks. Paige wasn't there during the events of Morality Bites, Phoebe however just became the exact persona that was executed in the future of Morality Bites by this point. If her treatment of Cole and her general self-involvedness wouldn't get her there, this certainly should have! Whinper and PhoeME are unlikable I agree. Especially PhoeME who's at her worst in this season. And while Paige has done questionable things as well I wouldn't classify her as unlikable simply for the fact that she's the only one left with a sense of morality. Aside from assisting in killing Daryl, glamouring into a woman to knock a man out with a flower pot (which would serve to frame her for assault) the adformentioned issue of killing Rick in this episode when she could've just ORBED THE GUN to solve the problem and creating her own Mr Right for a sex object there isn't any other moment where Paige becomes as insufferable especially since she's the only one left who still cares about magic and saving innocents. You have moments like Soul Survivor, Love's a Witch and the entire Richard storyline that balances out the less that pleasant stuff she did. I guess it's a mix of both perhaps? Yeah, Phoebe especially was the one who truly should know better. It makes me sad since I love Morality Bites, but when you re-watch you see that such an amazing episode really made no impact later on with the sisters. LOL, they were going down the same path the sisters from the Morality Bites future did. That this episode just shouldn't have existed, if it had no influence later. Also funny, how it shaped Piper and Leo's relationship moving forward, all the talk about them having a child, and the reason to get married, because they got married here. I guess, it is a mix bag. Maybe it does come down to also which writer is writing what episode, when Kern's job is to keep things consistent. I guess, every writer on Charmed sees the show differently. I guess because from reading this board, I came across a thread, where someone put together a list of all the writers, and by the time S5 comes, nobody but Kern had been around since the start. Most of the inconsistency really is all on Kern, he should know his own show, when half the writing staff hadn't seen or been around the earlier seasons. I forgot about Soul Survivor, Paige was good in that one, and if I had to pick one from the later seasons, I'd only pick Paige as the likeable one overall, over the other two, who were far far worse. |
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codebox
Familiar
Hey I'm a Charmed Veteran have been for a long time. Hope to share some insight and opinions.
Posts: 287
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Post by codebox on May 10, 2019 0:04:32 GMT -5
I agree it reminds me of The Bride and Gloom from season 3 where Piper and Phoebe transformed into Warlocks. Paige wasn't there during the events of Morality Bites, Phoebe however just became the exact persona that was executed in the future of Morality Bites by this point. If her treatment of Cole and her general self-involvedness wouldn't get her there, this certainly should have! Whinper and PhoeME are unlikable I agree. Especially PhoeME who's at her worst in this season. And while Paige has done questionable things as well I wouldn't classify her as unlikable simply for the fact that she's the only one left with a sense of morality. Aside from assisting in killing Daryl, glamouring into a woman to knock a man out with a flower pot (which would serve to frame her for assault) the adformentioned issue of killing Rick in this episode when she could've just ORBED THE GUN to solve the problem and creating her own Mr Right for a sex object there isn't any other moment where Paige becomes as insufferable especially since she's the only one left who still cares about magic and saving innocents. You have moments like Soul Survivor, Love's a Witch and the entire Richard storyline that balances out the less that pleasant stuff she did. I guess it's a mix of both perhaps? Yeah, Phoebe especially was the one who truly should know better. It makes me sad since I love Morality Bites, but when you re-watch you see that such an amazing episode really made no impact later on with the sisters. LOL, they were going down the same path the sisters from the Morality Bites future did. That this episode just shouldn't have existed, if it had no influence later. Also funny, how it shaped Piper and Leo's relationship moving forward, all the talk about them having a child, and the reason to get married, because they got married here. I guess, it is a mix bag. Maybe it does come down to also which writer is writing what episode, when Kern's job is to keep things consistent. I guess, every writer on Charmed sees the show differently. I guess because from reading this board, I came across a thread, where someone put together a list of all the writers, and by the time S5 comes, nobody but Kern had been around since the start. Most of the inconsistency really is all on Kern, he should know his own show, when half the writing staff hadn't seen or been around the earlier seasons. I forgot about Soul Survivor, Paige was good in that one, and if I had to pick one from the later seasons, I'd only pick Paige as the likeable one overall, over the other two, who were far far worse. Phoebe and Piper were basically different characters in the later seasons. To me Phoebe truly died in the episode Sleuthing with the Enemy the moment she let Cole go and her infamous exchanged with Prue cemented Phoebe's death. The "Phoebe" we have from Season 3-8 is a different character with Phoebe's body. As for Piper she died in Witch, Way Now? Her and PhoeME choosing to make a deal without Paige's consent and final urge to rid her powers sealed that deal. And the Piper from Season 5-8 is just a shrieking harpy in Piper's body. I like to think all three OG sisters died and Paige was left to pick up the mess and deal with what she thinks are her sisters. Its also why I like Chris a lot. He was pretty much the only thing I liked in Season 6 aside from Paige, because he felt like an audience surrogate. A way to reflect the audience's reaction to how Whinper and PhoeME (the ones who stole Piper and Phoebe's bodies) don't want to do anything and actively makes them do things. The killing of Rick just rid them of their protagonist badge, and from there onward they are just heroes in name only masquerading as witches. |
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Post by Katie Warren on May 10, 2019 0:23:19 GMT -5
Yeah, Phoebe especially was the one who truly should know better. It makes me sad since I love Morality Bites, but when you re-watch you see that such an amazing episode really made no impact later on with the sisters. LOL, they were going down the same path the sisters from the Morality Bites future did. That this episode just shouldn't have existed, if it had no influence later. Also funny, how it shaped Piper and Leo's relationship moving forward, all the talk about them having a child, and the reason to get married, because they got married here. I guess, it is a mix bag. Maybe it does come down to also which writer is writing what episode, when Kern's job is to keep things consistent. I guess, every writer on Charmed sees the show differently. I guess because from reading this board, I came across a thread, where someone put together a list of all the writers, and by the time S5 comes, nobody but Kern had been around since the start. Most of the inconsistency really is all on Kern, he should know his own show, when half the writing staff hadn't seen or been around the earlier seasons. I forgot about Soul Survivor, Paige was good in that one, and if I had to pick one from the later seasons, I'd only pick Paige as the likeable one overall, over the other two, who were far far worse. Phoebe and Piper were basically different characters in the later seasons. To me Phoebe truly died in the episode Sleuthing with the Enemy the moment she let Cole go and her infamous exchanged with Prue cemented Phoebe's death. The "Phoebe" we have from Season 3-8 is a different character with Phoebe's body. As for Piper she died in Witch, Way Now? Her and PhoeME choosing to make a deal without Paige's consent and final urge to rid her powers sealed that deal. And the Piper from Season 5-8 is just a shrieking harpy in Piper's body. I like to think all three OG sisters died and Paige was left to pick up the mess and deal with what she thinks are her sisters. Its also why I like Chris a lot. He was pretty much the only thing I liked in Season 6 aside from Paige, because he felt like an audience surrogate. A way to reflect the audience's reaction to how Whinper and PhoeME (the ones who stole Piper and Phoebe's bodies) don't want to do anything and actively makes them do things. The killing of Rick just rid them of their protagonist badge, and from there onward they are just heroes in name only masquerading as witches. I completely agree, Phoebe died the moment she let go Cole and lied to her sisters. She was no longer Phoebe but PhoeME. Really would have been for the better if Piper and Phoebe gave up their powers and lived a normal life, but Paige stayed and kept hers. Really the show should have just ended after S4. |
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rebooted
Witch
Started watching at 12
Posts: 1,803
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Post by rebooted on May 13, 2019 21:14:19 GMT -5
Phoebe and Piper were basically different characters in the later seasons. To me Phoebe truly died in the episode Sleuthing with the Enemy the moment she let Cole go and her infamous exchanged with Prue cemented Phoebe's death. The "Phoebe" we have from Season 3-8 is a different character with Phoebe's body. As for Piper she died in Witch, Way Now? Her and PhoeME choosing to make a deal without Paige's consent and final urge to rid her powers sealed that deal. And the Piper from Season 5-8 is just a shrieking harpy in Piper's body. I like to think all three OG sisters died and Paige was left to pick up the mess and deal with what she thinks are her sisters. Its also why I like Chris a lot. He was pretty much the only thing I liked in Season 6 aside from Paige, because he felt like an audience surrogate. A way to reflect the audience's reaction to how Whinper and PhoeME (the ones who stole Piper and Phoebe's bodies) don't want to do anything and actively makes them do things. The killing of Rick just rid them of their protagonist badge, and from there onward they are just heroes in name only masquerading as witches. I completely agree, Phoebe died the moment she let go Cole and lied to her sisters. She was no longer Phoebe but PhoeME. Really would have been for the better if Piper and Phoebe gave up their powers and lived a normal life, but Paige stayed and kept hers. Really the show should have just ended after S4. That would have been much better. Then we could have just imagined baby Melinda being born, Cole and Phoebe potentially getting together (even though he did kill Jackman) and Paige on the path to becoming the more active witch/whitelighter and social worker. I could have been OK with it ending at Prewitched as well. |
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Post by Katie Warren on May 14, 2019 2:48:10 GMT -5
I completely agree, Phoebe died the moment she let go Cole and lied to her sisters. She was no longer Phoebe but PhoeME. Really would have been for the better if Piper and Phoebe gave up their powers and lived a normal life, but Paige stayed and kept hers. Really the show should have just ended after S4. That would have been much better. Then we could have just imagined baby Melinda being born, Cole and Phoebe potentially getting together (even though he did kill Jackman) and Paige on the path to becoming the more active witch/whitelighter and social worker. I could have been OK with it ending at Prewitched as well. That would have been really great, I'd love to imagine baby Melinda being born, and Paige on a path to being a good witch and protector of the innocent, and being a fantastic social worker helping people. Pre-Witched would have been a great ending, or even an episode like 'Apocalypse Not'. Maybe even both being at the end of the series. |
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Chris
Familiar
May the day shine on all of you wonderful people :)
Posts: 149
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Post by Chris on May 15, 2019 22:22:29 GMT -5
I'm gonna go for a different approach... simply lazy lazy writing.
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codebox
Familiar
Hey I'm a Charmed Veteran have been for a long time. Hope to share some insight and opinions.
Posts: 287
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Post by codebox on May 16, 2019 0:48:35 GMT -5
This has always been my least favorite episode of the entire show and cemented why Season 6 as a whole was bad. While the Charmed Ones (namely Phoebe) had lost their character by that point, this episode just completely destroyed their status as protagonists. This episode feels so un-charmed like. Not only is PhoeME's plot a complete rehash of Coyote Piper with less fun, but it undermines who the Charmed Ones are suppose to be and negates the events of Morality Bites.
With season 6 I noticed a lot of instances where Paige could've solved situations simply by orbing something away. (Excluding the scene in A Witch in Time from Season 5, where Paige could've orbed the frozen athame toward the demons or orb the book before the demons had a chance to get the book. I still hate that scene to this day) This would be a recurring thing too. Paige was so out of character in this episode it was painful! Right before they setup rick to be killed by demons, Paige has a smirk on her face as she response to Phoebe who gladly leads him into said trap. There was no reason Paige couldn't have just orbed the gun away, Phoebe could've disarmed him while his back was turned. I didn't feel I was watching Phoebe and Paige, but rather evil impersonations of them. Considering this is also a season that starts off with Paige being more involved with wanting to help people, either magical or non magical means this contradicts her motives entirely. Especially considering she's the only one left by this point who cares about saving innocents. She still continues this same motive, but episodes like this just make her out of character completely in a season where Paige was relatively good for the most part (excluding killing Daryl aside and creating her Mr Right)
This episode would've been good had it focused on the Chris, Piper and Victor plot, only to be overshadowed by this mess of a main plot. It's one thing if Rick was just killed unintentionally or by accident. It's another to make your characters out of character for the sake of "getting rid of the villain".. Phoebe should've especially known better given her actual experience with this lesson before. Then again by this point Phoebe is long since dead. This episode is the prime reason why Season 6 was such a bad season.
It's also why I think Post Sleepy Halliwell-It's a Bad, Bad, Bad World Piper was the best of the season because her more soft spoken tone while being relegated to magic school for the second half of the season gave me glimpses of Season 1-4 Piper. It also helps that her conversations with Leo seemed mellowed out.
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Post by gzv969 on May 31, 2019 11:58:16 GMT -5
Phoebe and Piper were basically different characters in the later seasons. To me Phoebe truly died in the episode Sleuthing with the Enemy the moment she let Cole go and her infamous exchanged with Prue cemented Phoebe's death. The "Phoebe" we have from Season 3-8 is a different character with Phoebe's body. As for Piper she died in Witch, Way Now? Her and PhoeME choosing to make a deal without Paige's consent and final urge to rid her powers sealed that deal. And the Piper from Season 5-8 is just a shrieking harpy in Piper's body. I like to think all three OG sisters died and Paige was left to pick up the mess and deal with what she thinks are her sisters. Its also why I like Chris a lot. He was pretty much the only thing I liked in Season 6 aside from Paige, because he felt like an audience surrogate. A way to reflect the audience's reaction to how Whinper and PhoeME (the ones who stole Piper and Phoebe's bodies) don't want to do anything and actively makes them do things. The killing of Rick just rid them of their protagonist badge, and from there onward they are just heroes in name only masquerading as witches. I completely agree, Phoebe died the moment she let go Cole and lied to her sisters. She was no longer Phoebe but PhoeME. Really would have been for the better if Piper and Phoebe gave up their powers and lived a normal life, but Paige stayed and kept hers. Really the show should have just ended after S4. Hence why I believe Cole has always been her real soulmate. I’ve always wondered. If Cole showed up in season 5 without any powers and he still made all the efforts to win her back would phoebe have taken him back? Because it seemed her main issue with Cole was with all the evil powers he had accumulated. I remember in “Siren Song” there was that moment when phoebe had a moment of clarity where she seemed ready to give Cole a chance, like she did in season 3. But her sisters weren’t ready for that and shut her down right there. Well Paige did. |
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Post by gzv969 on May 31, 2019 12:24:57 GMT -5
As for the rick question. A very good one. Paige or phoebe could have said a spell to send him back into jail, like they did in “run piper run” with Maya. But I guess they were more concerned with fixing their Chris problem.
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Post by Katie Warren on Jun 1, 2019 17:04:10 GMT -5
I completely agree, Phoebe died the moment she let go Cole and lied to her sisters. She was no longer Phoebe but PhoeME. Really would have been for the better if Piper and Phoebe gave up their powers and lived a normal life, but Paige stayed and kept hers. Really the show should have just ended after S4. Hence why I believe Cole has always been her real soulmate. I’ve always wondered. If Cole showed up in season 5 without any powers and he still made all the efforts to win her back would phoebe have taken him back? Because it seemed her main issue with Cole was with all the evil powers he had accumulated. I remember in “Siren Song” there was that moment when phoebe had a moment of clarity where she seemed ready to give Cole a chance, like she did in season 3. But her sisters weren’t ready for that and shut her down right there. Well Paige did. Interesting. That part I completely never remembered from S5. But then I remembered the next one Witches in Tights when Cole killed an innocent to cover for Phoebe that she freaked and ran no longer trusting him period now. |
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