I admit it....I liked Paige better

[charmerjosh]

Now, admittedly I am not the biggest Shannon Doherty fan. Not that I hate her or nothing, but I am indifferent to her.

But I feel like season 3 was really the only good Prue season. I know Ill get a lot of heat for saying what I just said.

And as far as seasons 1 and 2 being bad, I don't think thats Dohertys fault. The supporting actors on the show those first couple of seasons were terrible. Andy was a god awful actor. And most of the demons were bad actors too, with the exception of Billy Drago as Barabas.


But season 3 was good because the supporting cast got better. Leo had a bigger role in the show. The introduction of Daryl helped a lot. And of course, Cole came into the picture, which made the whole darn thing a lot more intruiging.


I still say that Paige was a better fit though. Piper was never believable as the semi immature little sister, but as the big sister she absolutely thrived. She should have been the big sis all along. Holly Combs has a presence about her that screams maturity so the big sister role is the one she was meant for.


All in all the show got better when Doherty left. I know thats not the popular thing to say, but it's true.

[Elle Em]

I respect your opinion, but I pretty much disagree with just about everything you said. To each their own, though.

[Sadrick]

After her first season, Paige was a spurious awkwardly positioned outsider with little recogniseable connectivity to the other two sisters. Others have already mentioned this but the episodic nature of the Charmed show was not conducive to Rose's strengths as a movie actress. She lacked the same zeal for the show's well-being as Shannen and her character showed little of the sisterly familial bond that had come to define the first two seasons.

I will grant that the later seasons offered some interesting ideas like some more dimensional characters and an overarcing plot with more strands of narrative material interweaving it all together. It still doesn't justify the hackneyed fluff and gag-inducing reprehensibility of the personalities of the sisters who had become individuals that I was rooting against rather than for.

[Esmeralda]

I agree with the others but, Charmerjosh, please keep in mind that in this forum everyone is allowed their own opinion and we won't try to make you feel horrible or stupid if you don't agree with the majority of us as happens in some forums. Just keep expressing your opinions (remembering that everything in here is opinion and not fact) and who knows? Maybe you'll convince others to thinking the same way you do.

I know when I first joined there were a ton of members who couldn't stand Prue. There was a thread with the subject of "I Hate Prue" (since been removed) that was the longest thread on the forum with most of the people in there agreeing with that sentiment. Now I think it's the opposite. You might be able to turn it around again.

For myself, Paige is my favorite sister in Season Four and Season Eight but only because I can't stand Poor, Poor Pitiful Piper and PhoeME in S4-8. Phoebs is my favorite in Season 1 and 2 and Piper is my favorite in Season Three, the reasons I can't stand the changes in them. But I prefer the first set of sisters to the second and a lot of that is due to how Shannen Doherty (who as a person I'm not nuts on, just like Holly Marie Combs and Alyssa Milano. I respect Rose McGowan due to what she was put through while part of Charmed - and it used to be I couldn't stand her while loving Holly) played Prue. I always try to separate actor from role, although I know some fans can't do that.

[Hexenwerk]

I liked Paige, but I also disagree with pretty much all of the sentiments expressed in the original post. I feel that Prue was perfect for the role of the big sister because she held herself and others to high standards, even if it meant that she came off as insufferable to some viewers. I never got the sense that Piper was an immature little sister figure, but the earlier portrayal of her character did not suggest that she would want to be or make the best person as the eldest figure on whom responsibility fell. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, it's important for sundry temperaments to exist in a group, and Piper slotted well into a mediating-follower type.

[Esmeralda]

Feb 17, 2018 17:50:52 GMT -5 Hexenwerk said:

I liked Paige, but I also disagree with pretty much all of the sentiments expressed in the original post. I feel that Prue was perfect for the role of the big sister because she held herself and others to high standards, even if it meant that she came off as insufferable to some viewers. I never got the sense that Piper was an immature little sister figure, but the earlier portrayal of her character did not suggest that she would want to be or make the best person as the eldest figure on whom responsibility fell. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, it's important for sundry temperaments to exist in a group, and Piper slotted well into a mediating-follower type.

Exactly so. Had they let Paige be the Only Child she truly was despite being the youngest, letting her use her social service skills to help her half-sisters go through the seven stages of grieving and in that way become a new leader who can treat them as women and not as girls, like Prue did, they may have grown and become better people. In constantly feeling sorry for herself, Piper helped Phoebe remain PhoeME and let Paige turn into Ditzy Valley Girl. Hence why Prue the Oldest, the Leader; Piper the Middle, the Heart and Mediator; and Phoebe the adventurous Baby worked so well (since they were based on Connie Burge and her two older sisters) and Piper the Leader, Phoebe the Whatever and Paige the Ditzy One didn't.

With the reboot letting the "Paige" character be the oldest, I hope they fix this huge wrong Kern perpetrated on Charmed in trying to make it "new and fresh" by letting the oldest be the Only Child, the middle child be the Oldest Child and the youngest be the Baby. Skipping the middle child (Piper) will let it be new and different, its own show especially if their guide never has a relationship with any of the girls outside of guide and dies at the end of the first season and stays gone.

[serenacinnamon]

I enjoyed both actresses and both characters. Obviously, the show never intended or wanted a main character to leave and be replaced by another actress – but how they handled it was genius and felt real & true to the story and these characters’ lives. How many times did the Charmed Ones face death? Over the course of years we were supposed to stick by them and believe them to be in constant danger. Demons (and more) were trying to kill them every single episode. So, in my esteem, one of the greatest and most authentic things the Charmed writers ever did was kill Prue and prove, in a rare move for this show, that the stakes could be real. It was excellent drama and excellently handled.

I also like how Paige’s character & introduction tied into the story/world so well in terms of Piper & Leo’s forbidden love and all the drama with the elders and the coming of Wyatt. Introduce a half-whitelighter, half-sister given up by their mom after she had an affair with *her* whitelighter! Love it!

There was room for both Prue & Paige IMO and I think both characters have a great and needed place in the show. Even if I rewrote the show myself (and let me tell you, boy have I fantasized about doing so) I would keep that story arc. Prue’s tragic & unexpected death, the grieving and wanting to give up on their destiny, learning to love the half-sister they didn’t know about and becoming Charmed again, Piper adjusting to her role as big sister (and most powerful), etc.

Team Prue AND Team Paige. That is some quality family drama & shake up.

[Esmeralda]

I'd agree with this more if Piper didn't keep dying and coming back to life and if Grams and Patty could show up whenever they felt like it and even become corporeal for no good reason, but Prue couldn't. Yes, we know why, but if Shannen couldn't do that as Prue, neither should've Finola as Patty or Jennifer as Grams.

I agree totally regarding Paige's introduction, even if I would've preferred them not to be able to vanquish Shax (and especially not the Source!) until they had a chance to bond a bit more.

I keep saying it - had the show ended with 'With Way Now?' but not show Cole after 'Long Live the Queen' - or better, change 'Witch Way Now?' to something like 'Something Wicca This Way Goes', adapted to what was going on in Season Four, I'd be agreeing with you totally.

[Hexenwerk]

Feb 17, 2018 18:39:03 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

Feb 17, 2018 17:50:52 GMT -5 Hexenwerk said:

I liked Paige, but I also disagree with pretty much all of the sentiments expressed in the original post. I feel that Prue was perfect for the role of the big sister because she held herself and others to high standards, even if it meant that she came off as insufferable to some viewers. I never got the sense that Piper was an immature little sister figure, but the earlier portrayal of her character did not suggest that she would want to be or make the best person as the eldest figure on whom responsibility fell. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, it's important for sundry temperaments to exist in a group, and Piper slotted well into a mediating-follower type.

Exactly so. Had they let Paige be the Only Child she truly was despite being the youngest, letting her use her social service skills to help her half-sisters go through the seven stages of grieving and in that way become a new leader who can treat them as women and not as girls, like Prue did, they may have grown and become better people. In constantly feeling sorry for herself, Piper helped Phoebe remain PhoeME and let Paige turn into Ditzy Valley Girl. Hence why Prue the Oldest, the Leader; Piper the Middle, the Heart and Mediator; and Phoebe the adventurous Baby worked so well (since they were based on Connie Burge and her two older sisters) and Piper the Leader, Phoebe the Whatever and Paige the Ditzy One didn't.

With the reboot letting the "Paige" character be the oldest, I hope they fix this huge wrong Kern perpetrated on Charmed in trying to make it "new and fresh" by letting the oldest be the Only Child, the middle child be the Oldest Child and the youngest be the Baby. Skipping the middle child (Piper) will let it be new and different, its own show especially if their guide never has a relationship with any of the girls outside of guide and dies at the end of the first season and stays gone.

I never understood what they were thinking, letting Paige be the "baby." Like, growing up as a single child wouldn't have had her in that role, and suddenly gaining two older sisters doesn't automatically mean that her personality would change to fit that role. Maybe if she were younger, like in her teens when she joined the Halliwells, but around twenty-three to mid-twenties? Just saying as someone presently in that age range, I would be offended if I was treated like that.

Also, I desperately wish the show had actually shown Paige's social services skills like, at all. Getting to see Piper and Phoebe actually going through grief counseling and seeing them brought back together into something new rather than just patching over the cracks would've been great storytelling.

Agree also that the stakes would've felt more real with Prue's death and that could've been appreciated if they'd actually kept the stakes raised and it hadn't been a one-off thing. Characters die and are brought back so often even afterward that it just feels cheap.

[charmerjosh]

Feb 17, 2018 21:04:13 GMT -5 Hexenwerk said:

Feb 17, 2018 18:39:03 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

Exactly so. Had they let Paige be the Only Child she truly was despite being the youngest, letting her use her social service skills to help her half-sisters go through the seven stages of grieving and in that way become a new leader who can treat them as women and not as girls, like Prue did, they may have grown and become better people. In constantly feeling sorry for herself, Piper helped Phoebe remain PhoeME and let Paige turn into Ditzy Valley Girl. Hence why Prue the Oldest, the Leader; Piper the Middle, the Heart and Mediator; and Phoebe the adventurous Baby worked so well (since they were based on Connie Burge and her two older sisters) and Piper the Leader, Phoebe the Whatever and Paige the Ditzy One didn't.

With the reboot letting the "Paige" character be the oldest, I hope they fix this huge wrong Kern perpetrated on Charmed in trying to make it "new and fresh" by letting the oldest be the Only Child, the middle child be the Oldest Child and the youngest be the Baby. Skipping the middle child (Piper) will let it be new and different, its own show especially if their guide never has a relationship with any of the girls outside of guide and dies at the end of the first season and stays gone.

I never understood what they were thinking, letting Paige be the "baby." Like, growing up as a single child wouldn't have had her in that role, and suddenly gaining two older sisters doesn't automatically mean that her personality would change to fit that role. Maybe if she were younger, like in her teens when she joined the Halliwells, but around twenty-three to mid-twenties? Just saying as someone presently in that age range, I would be offended if I was treated like that.

Also, I desperately wish the show had actually shown Paige's social services skills like, at all. Getting to see Piper and Phoebe actually going through grief counseling and seeing them brought back together into something new rather than just patching over the cracks would've been great storytelling.

Agree also that the stakes would've felt more real with Prue's death and that could've been appreciated if they'd actually kept the stakes raised and it hadn't been a one-off thing. Characters die and are brought back so often even afterward that it just feels cheap.

Paige was the comic relief sister. That's why she was portrayed the way she was. And it was fine. One of the funniest eposides ever was the one where Paige found out that she is practically worshipped by all fairy tale type beings in that fairy tale world lololol I wish I could rememeber which episode that was.

[Esmeralda]

And if you enjoyed that, then enjoy it. I never found her funny, just ditzy which translated to stupid. Here's what my signature used to say:

"There are far worse fates than a permanent trip through the Wall of Death...

LIKE A CHARACTER LOBOTOMY, courtesy of Brad Kern!

I miss our snarky Piper who cared about innocents more than herself,
our smart Paige who had graduated from college and should've been a social worker
and our sweet Phoebs who loved magic more than sex!
Did they ever miss Prue!
Me, too."

Now if you enjoyed Ms. Whinealot, PhoeME and the Ditzy Valley Girl, that's fantastic! Go right ahead and enjoy them.

But I don't. I never found them funny, just disgusting.

And a lot of that is Rose simply wasn't funny. The one who should've remained the comic relief was Phoebe because Alyssa is hilarious! Just like Kaley Cuoco who played Billie, a much-better comic actress than dramatic. Shannen was better at drama; Holly best at both. Rose, because of all she was going through simply didn't try, really never seemed good at any of it.

But as I said, if you liked those characters then enjoy them.

[Granny Charmed]

As with others here dears, I completely disagree with the statement said in the original post of this thread, but I respect that opinion.

Feb 17, 2018 21:31:52 GMT -5 charmerjosh said:

Feb 17, 2018 21:04:13 GMT -5 Hexenwerk said:

I never understood what they were thinking, letting Paige be the "baby." Like, growing up as a single child wouldn't have had her in that role, and suddenly gaining two older sisters doesn't automatically mean that her personality would change to fit that role. Maybe if she were younger, like in her teens when she joined the Halliwells, but around twenty-three to mid-twenties? Just saying as someone presently in that age range, I would be offended if I was treated like that.

Also, I desperately wish the show had actually shown Paige's social services skills like, at all. Getting to see Piper and Phoebe actually going through grief counseling and seeing them brought back together into something new rather than just patching over the cracks would've been great storytelling.

Agree also that the stakes would've felt more real with Prue's death and that could've been appreciated if they'd actually kept the stakes raised and it hadn't been a one-off thing. Characters die and are brought back so often even afterward that it just feels cheap.

I truly wish dear that Paige *had* been a social worker for the entire series and she used it to help them get over Prue's death. But we all know that the writers didn't care and wanted to move on from Prue as soon as possible, and treat Season 4-8 as if Piper was always the oldest, Phoebe was always the middle and Paige was the baby. All of which I never liked. 

I also felt death had little meaning on the show. Why I never had any tears for when Piper was the last one standing and Phoebe and Paige died, because we knew they would be back the next episode. While feeling more for the dead sisters in the earlier seasons. 

[Elle Em]

Feb 17, 2018 20:27:03 GMT -5 serenacinnamon said:

I enjoyed both actresses and both characters. Obviously, the show never intended or wanted a main character to leave and be replaced by another actress – but how they handled it was genius and felt real & true to the story and these characters’ lives. How many times did the Charmed Ones face death? Over the course of years we were supposed to stick by them and believe them to be in constant danger. Demons (and more) were trying to kill them every single episode. So, in my esteem, one of the greatest and most authentic things the Charmed writers ever did was kill Prue and prove, in a rare move for this show, that the stakes could be real. It was excellent drama and excellently handled.

Welcome to the forum! 

I agree about Prue's death being an oddly realistic move for the show to make. If this were real life, of course it's highly probable that at least one of them will die young. Actually killing a sister, even if they had to due to real life drama, was, as you said, "authentic."

I would never want any of them to die young, but I can respect the finality of Prue's death. I also thought Paige's introduction was fantastic, especially since they conveniently had the backstory of Sam and Patty more than a year earlier. While Prue dying is my least favorite thing of the show, not only because I miss her character but I feel like her death led to a lot of things that I see as being wrong with the show, Paige's introduction is one of my favorites. 

[Elle Em]

Feb 17, 2018 17:50:52 GMT -5 Hexenwerk said:

I liked Paige, but I also disagree with pretty much all of the sentiments expressed in the original post. I feel that Prue was perfect for the role of the big sister because she held herself and others to high standards, even if it meant that she came off as insufferable to some viewers. I never got the sense that Piper was an immature little sister figure, but the earlier portrayal of her character did not suggest that she would want to be or make the best person as the eldest figure on whom responsibility fell. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, it's important for sundry temperaments to exist in a group, and Piper slotted well into a mediating-follower type.

With Prue, there were plenty of times I didn't like her. But she's still my overall favorite character because even when I didn't like her, I respected her. Even at her coldest and most judgmental early on, I still enjoyed her character because that was a part of who she was naturally. 

And I think Piper was better off even living under the shadow of her older sister than she was in the latter seasons when she was forced into the role of the oldest. Yes, she grew, but at tremendous cost, and not in a good direction. Piper never needed to take Prue's place in the family to discover who she was or be free. She would have been much better off and much happier as she continued to become more of her own person while still having Prue as a strong presence in her life. 

[Deleted]

Honestly, Prue was the most consistently written character that oftentimes she is my favourite sister. That is probably due to her short time on the show, but I nevertheless appreciated her being stern and somewhat icy in the first season and then loosing up and becoming more likeable. Her behaviour had tremendous context. It was not as if she behaved one way in one episode, and then wildly different the week after.

I have to say though, I also LOVE Paige. Out the of the later seasons, she was the most likeable and consistent sister. Even in Season 7 and 8 when she complained about being a witch and a Whitelighter, I never felt that it was authentic to her character. It felt as though she was placating Piper and Phoebe.

All in all, my favourite periods for each sister are Prue (S2-3); Piper (S1-2); Phoebe (S1-2; 7) and Paige (S4-5; 7).

[charmerjosh]

Feb 18, 2018 16:15:07 GMT -5 @deano said:

Honestly, Prue was the most consistently written character that oftentimes she is my favourite sister. That is probably due to her short time on the show, but I nevertheless appreciated her being stern and somewhat icy in the first season and then loosing up and becoming more likeable. Her behaviour had tremendous context. It was not as if she behaved one way in one episode, and then wildly different the week after.

I have to say though, I also LOVE Paige. Out the of the later seasons, she was the most likeable and consistent sister. Even in Season 7 and 8 when she complained about being a witch and a Whitelighter, I never felt that it was authentic to her character. It felt as though she was placating Piper and Phoebe.

All in all, my favourite periods for each sister are Prue (S2-3); Piper (S1-2); Phoebe (S1-2; 7) and Paige (S4-5; 7).

Thanks. I appreciate what you said. It seems like most of the others dont understand what Rose was there to do. The Paige character was written with little kids in mind. Paige was created to make the show attractive to little kids which is why she was always working with leprechauns and fairies and such. And at that she did a wonderful job. Phoebe was meant to be appealing to both kids, teens, and adults. And of course Piper was written with adults in mind.

[Assassin Witch]

I'm not sure when Charmed was ever for "little kids." It wasn't a kids show at all. Paige wasn't brought in to suddenly make the show a comedy. The addition of the magical community in S5 was more of a jumping-the-shark moment than anything else. The characters written for different age groups doesn't make sense as they are characters on a show. Each character should have the same "writing" as the others to appeal to the same demographic.

But also your breakdown of the "appeal" of the characters is another reason why I do not like the later seasons. And that adds to the inconsistency of the show.

[charmerjosh]

Feb 18, 2018 22:45:14 GMT -5 Assassin Witch said:

I'm not sure when Charmed was ever for "little kids." It wasn't a kids show at all. Paige wasn't brought in to suddenly make the show a comedy. The addition of the magical community in S5 was more of a jumping-the-shark moment than anything else. The characters written for different age groups doesn't make sense as they are characters on a show. Each character should have the same "writing" as the others to appeal to the same demographic.

But also your breakdown of the "appeal" of the characters is another reason why I do not like the later seasons. And that adds to the inconsistency of the show.

Charmed was an all demographics type of show. Qualified as both a family show and a teen show. And its not at all uncommon for hollywood to write characters of a show in different ways to try and draw in all possible demographics. Any show with more than one lead does that. The different leads are meant to draw in different types of audiences

[Hexenwerk]

Feb 18, 2018 23:23:55 GMT -5 charmerjosh said:

Feb 18, 2018 22:45:14 GMT -5 Assassin Witch said:

I'm not sure when Charmed was ever for "little kids." It wasn't a kids show at all. Paige wasn't brought in to suddenly make the show a comedy. The addition of the magical community in S5 was more of a jumping-the-shark moment than anything else. The characters written for different age groups doesn't make sense as they are characters on a show. Each character should have the same "writing" as the others to appeal to the same demographic.

But also your breakdown of the "appeal" of the characters is another reason why I do not like the later seasons. And that adds to the inconsistency of the show.

Charmed was an all demographics type of show. Qualified as both a family show and a teen show. And its not at all uncommon for hollywood to write characters of a show in different ways to try and draw in all possible demographics. Any show with more than one lead does that. The different leads are meant to draw in different types of audiences

I have friends who have fond memories of watching Charmed when they were children, but Charmed–at least initially–was not intended as a family show (or even a teen show). The premise was adult women trying to balance their magical calling with jobs, mature relationships, et cetera. Not even teens are going to necessarily relate to that. While younger demographics can and will like the show and watch it, that doesn't mean that Charmed was directed at them. In creating any show, book, movie, etc., there are specific demographics which the creators target, and Charmed seemed to aim mostly at (white) women (likely younger women, but still adults). I don't think I would have liked Charmed nearly as much if I'd seen it even a few years ago than when I first did at the age of twenty-two.

I've noticed that preferences for characters comes with age groups, too. I know people who remarked on Phoebe being their favorite when they were younger, and later their favorite becoming Prue as they started to come into themselves as adults and relate more to the demands of adulthood. Phoebe represented the unsure, post-high school or college/post-college young adult still struggling to find her place and become self-actualized. Piper represented the adult figure still working on establishing her foothold; building up a resumé, creating serious relationships both in the community and with individuals, etc. Prue represented the realized adult who was already out of the insecure college and post-college stage of her life, who had held serious, long-term jobs, had responsibility for others fall into her, and was able to start exploring herself as a person with the security of her life experience and resumé to fall back on if things went south. Paige is . . . kind of hard to pin down exactly the same way, both because the show had moved beyond that premise, and also due to the confusion in the fact that she's pretty well-established in her ways in the beginning (artist, has a steady job, good friendships, etc.), and is then uprooted by her introduction to the magical world.

Targeting lots of different demographics is typically a sign that a show is struggling to keep itself relevant and alive, because different demographics have different demands that don't always mesh well. It becomes obvious when Charmed tries pulling in more male viewers, and those changes were often off-putting to female viewers who don't appreciate certain strategies used to draw in that new demographic. Ideally before writing, or at least soon into the process, a writer has in mind not only the kind of story that they want to tell, but the sort of people to whom it will appeal the most, and doesn't stray from that.

Different characters catering to different demographics existing in one show? While I can see how different characters can appeal to different viewers as I outlined above, they should still exist within a cohesive overarching tone which will determine target audience more than any other factor. Like, Chris came in and was immediately, obviously an attractive part of the show to young, hetero- and bisexual women (and probably some gay and bisexual men, but I can't speak from a male perspective), but the foundation was already there to interest those viewers: young, strong women, a glaringly obvious feminist message with the establishment of the Charmed Ones as both women, the main characters, and the ultimate force for good in the show's canon against evil beings that are almost always men, handsome men as side characters and romantic interests, etc.

Like, of course there are people outside of the target demographics who are going to enjoy a show–heck, I'm not the target demographic but I still love Charmed–but that doesn't erase the fact that there are primary demographics to which the show attempts to appeal. It's pretty much an integral part of pitching a creative work to bring up the target audience.

[Elle Em]

Feb 19, 2018 2:50:27 GMT -5 Hexenwerk said:

I've noticed that preferences for characters comes with age groups, too. I know people who remarked on Phoebe being their favorite when they were younger, and later their favorite becoming Prue as they started to come into themselves as adults and relate more to the demands of adulthood. Phoebe represented the unsure, post-high school or college/post-college young adult still struggling to find her place and become self-actualized. Piper represented the adult figure still working on establishing her foothold; building up a resumé, creating serious relationships both in the community and with individuals, etc. Prue represented the realized adult who was already out of the insecure college and post-college stage of her life, who had held serious, long-term jobs, had responsibility for others fall into her, and was able to start exploring herself as a person with the security of her life experience and resumé to fall back on if things went south. Paige is . . . kind of hard to pin down exactly the same way, both because the show had moved beyond that premise, and also due to the confusion in the fact that she's pretty well-established in her ways in the beginning (artist, has a steady job, good friendships, etc.), and is then uprooted by her introduction to the magical world.

I love your analysis here of the different life stages of the sisters. Since I started watching the show so young and saw them all as so much older than me, I never really saw it this way. I've kept this image of them as adults who are older than me, even though I'm now the same age as they were in the beginning. This is a great way to analyze their positions at the beginning of the show, and makes it even more relatable.