ljones
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Post by ljones on Feb 4, 2019 20:50:38 GMT -5
Julians stellar acting would always keep the show interesting. So I vote for never. On the other hand, he made the right decision to leave the show when he did. This is evidenced by the fact that he had the most successful post-Charmed career out of all of them by far. I agree. Between Shannen Doherty's departure and his, the show was never really the same for me. And I found the way they wrote his character in the Season Four finale and Season Five pretty sloppy. I take it back. If the show wanted to get rid of him, fine. But they could have done better than "Centennial Charmed". That was just abmysal. The show could have allowed the Charmed Ones to admit that they had screwed up by not realizing he was a victim of the Source's. It was crap to me and phony as hell. |
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Post by West on Apr 22, 2020 3:46:47 GMT -5
I used to think Long Live the Queen. Now maybe All Hell Breaks Loose or even A Paige From the Past when Cole was shot. But Phoebe became PhoeMe in Sleuthing so maybe that episode.
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ljones
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Post by ljones on May 4, 2020 1:52:23 GMT -5
I think Cole was the best thing about "Charmed" period. He was a very complicated character and brought a lot of much needed ambiguity to the show. It was a pity that he wasn't the show's main character. It was a pity that the show runners had failed to use the character to allow the Halliwells to learn the truth about their own prejudices and hypocrisies. And it's a pity that Kern and his writers had failed to use his character to permanently lift the series from it's childish black and white mentality, which I believe is more suited for shows about children.
I would have allowed Cole to leave San Francisco and use his character for a spin off series. With a more talented show runner.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2020 12:49:19 GMT -5
Never with good writing, but if we are talking about reality, I think LLQ would have been a better exit.
S5 was just character assassination IMO, and honestly his madness was not even that interesting or compelling because of how poorly it's written.
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Post by West on Jun 11, 2020 2:17:20 GMT -5
Never with good writing, but if we are talking about reality, I think LLQ would have been a better exit. S5 was just character assassination IMO, and honestly his madness was not even that interesting or compelling because of how poorly it's written. I don't know why they even bothered with S5 with Cole. He should have stayed gone after S4. S5 should have been a reboot from S4, and let Phoebe start a new chapter without him. Was the Avatars introduced in S5 always meant to be just a introduction/tease. As they don't reappear until a year and a half later in S7. And did they bother to bring up that they meet Cole previously in S5, I can't remember. I wonder if Julian didn't want to leave, if the Avatar story was meant for S5 with Cole not Leo originally. I sure am glad it wasn't if they were planning that, because it would really make S5 even worse than it already was. Everything about Cole in S5 was written so poorly and stupid and made no sense, like they just wanted to keep Julian for the sack of loving him the actor and keeping him around for the heck of it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2020 15:18:30 GMT -5
After all this time I've settled on the following: the writers should have just done the cosmic void (or maybe just wasteland) thing from the beginning. Just having him stuck there and being "neutral" wouldn't feel like such a betrayal of his character growth in early S4. Maybe have the Charmed ones visit for "demon consultation" every now then LOL (I mean they continued to do so in S5 even tho they hated him)
Huh I never thought about the avatar storyline being intended for Cole but maybe?
I think they just didn't have the budget/time for a 2nd male lead, that's why Paige and Phoebe have an endless parade of boyfriends that only last from 5-7 episodes and then they're gone or the show is over.
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rekkana
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Post by rekkana on Jul 23, 2020 12:35:28 GMT -5
I've said this a lot in the past and I'll say it again. The way he was killed off in "Long Live the Queen" and later in "Centennial Charmed" was crap to me. Why didn't Kern and his writers allowed the sisters to learn that Cole had been a victim of possession by the Source? They could have done so and still allowed Cole to leave the show . . . but on a better note than one in which he was killed off again, via bad writing. The way Cole's story arc was handled in the end has become something of a joke in pop culture. Someone on the "Mary Sue Blog" had written an article about the new "Charmed" series and still managed to make a crack about how Cole's story arc was written. Was Kern really that anxious for Phoebe to hop into some other guy's bed so soon? I wonder how you would react to some of the stuff that the sisters and Leo did in the later seasons. I'm sorry, but I thought Cole was the best thing about "Charmed". Without him, I would have dumped the show after Season Two. I don't mind that the series had wanted to get rid of him. But Kern and the writers could have done so with better writing. That whole mess from late Season Four to early Season Five still riles me to this day. I share the same feelings, still. It's actually rather interesting, considering the time gap between the series aired and now. If the writing was aimed to cause strong deep feeling, it's been achieved; just not in the way intended. As I did a little research, it seems the plan was to get Cole and Paige involved, to which actresses said a firm "no". That made me think Cole's arc was brought down mainly by Alyssa Milano, perhaps? If she gets to say, what happens or don't happen to the plot, and she actually gets half of the show to praise her, then I expect nothing less of her to put the blame on Cole. So, my guess is it's not so much writers wanting another boyfriend for Phoebe, as Alyssa herself. Also, if I may add, Cole was the only strong logical male lead in the series. And it would be nice to see him with no exit whatsoever, or one provided by a decent scenario turn. Which is, sadly, neither of episodes listed. One that came close was Sleuthing with the Enemy, however if you think about it, Cole had no way of staying away after that one. He loves Phoebe, she loves him and knows he's alive. What's the point in never going back to her? Have the writers ever seen a confident man being in love with the woman who loves him back and just... staying away? Also, it makes Phoebe look anything but a good witch and person. She sets the powerful demon to roam free (and the person she loves to be hunted by other demons. How the hell any demon would know about the vanquish in some old dusty Masoleum?), keeping that information from her sisters. She at least could've disscussed it with them. Piper even says herself, that Cole won't hurt Phoebe, considering he's in love. Demons don't have feelings, so that arises a BIG question which needs to be explored. But no, the episode is near the end, there is no time for logical plotlines to kick in. As to what if.. I'm not a professional writer, and my perfect exits for Cole are based solely on my emotions as a target audience.  1) I'd love him to get to the parallel world with the Avatars, except this one included no magic at all. The biggest problem with human Cole/witch Phoebe was his inability to defend himself and his woman, while she had powers and was under constant attack. If they were both human, however, I imagine he could've worked with that. We see Cole leaving everything he had, giving up all his power to walk as a mortal into a nice looking condo, where Phoebe is sleeping. As he gets to her, he raises his arm to touch her hair and stops. She wakes up, puts her cheek up to his hand and smiles. Cole realizes it's all he ever wanted. And they ride their unicorns on the rainbow.
2) Also, could've been a dramatic scene, where he says he understands they can't be together. Phoebe hugs Cole, and we see their faces: his being calm, and hers smiling. But then, if you look at their eyes, they are filled with sadness. Both putting on their fake "okay" masks, just because it's too hard to say goodbye. And then Phoebe says tenderly, that she forgives him, nothing was his fault, there always will be the light in him, and she's sure someone else will notice that, too. But most important part would be for Cole to know that in his heart. It touches him deeply. This would be more true to Phoebe's character, than hate and blame. And this doesn't even need a follow up! That's full closure, there, in 5 minutes.
What do you think? Do you have any exit for Cole written?  |
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Aug 7, 2020 12:34:20 GMT -5
Phoebe did start a new life without him. But frankly, I would have preferred seeing Cole start a new life without her. A
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forbuss
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Post by forbuss on Sept 25, 2020 22:34:08 GMT -5
Don't ge tme wrong. I loved Cole and Julian McMahon, especially the Season 4 end story arc, which I am a minority I assume. I am with you on this one! I love love season four and Cole/Phoebe in season four - especially getting to see him as mortal. |
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forbuss
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Post by forbuss on Sept 25, 2020 22:35:21 GMT -5
Don't ge tme wrong. I loved Cole and Julian McMahon, especially the Season 4 end story arc, which I am a minority I assume. I am with you on this one! I love love season four and Cole/Phoebe in season four - especially getting to see him as mortal, and then find his way back to evil and become the Source. Sometimes I wonder if he still would have turned evil without The Seer interfering. [/quote] |
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Post by BriannaWarren2.0 on Oct 20, 2020 23:31:39 GMT -5
For me it would be Season 5 Episode 2 A witch's tail. It ties Cole, Phoebe and their relationship on a good/high final note. And that's where Julian should have left. Cole could maybe come back for one episode like he did in season 7. Only it would make sense more now. Have some lines that he is in a good place with friends and maybe a new love (?)right now. Perfect end to a great character like Cole! But my episode isn't on the poll list, so I can't choose any options even similar to my thought way...... I love that idea, they both understood that the relationship was over but they will always love each other. I love that Cole wasn't morally an evil but born one and with him leaving on a high note would have proven that. I love another poster suggestion of a Cole spinoff but with him finding love with another demon who wants to be good and they use their powers for good. |
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Nov 5, 2020 23:54:15 GMT -5
Why another demon? Why not a witch? Or some other magic practitioner?
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Post by gleamingroses on Nov 14, 2020 1:38:35 GMT -5
Cole's story should've ended with Long Live the Queen. Because it would've allowed not only closure to Cole/Phoebe, but allowed Phoebe to grow more naturally from the experience. I mean think of what Season 5 would be if the first 12 episodes were just back and forth Cole bashing!
I would've respected their breakup scene in Witch Way Now, had Phoebe actually helped Cole out of the wasteland, ended the relationship there and let him move on to his own path without Phoebe. It would've been great for both characters.
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Nov 19, 2020 18:33:57 GMT -5
"Long Live the Queen" was a damn travesty to me. "Centennial Charmed" was an even bigger one, as far as I'm concerned. I've said this many times and I'll say it again. If the series was that eager to kill off Cole, they should have done it AFTER the Halliwells had either saved him from the Source's possession or realized he had been a victim of the Source's possession by early Season 5. So many people have pointed this out. And yet, Brad Kern and some others refuse to acknowledge how they had screwed his character arc ever since late Season 4 - including that piece of crap, "Long Live the Queen", all because they could not consider the series rising above its infantile portrayal of morality.
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Post by Astral Echo on Dec 24, 2020 20:47:44 GMT -5
I'm due to start a rewatch of the series in the new year so I'll be interested to see if any of my thoughts change, particularly as an adult. But I always loved Phoebe and Cole's story up until Season 5. Julian McMahon is a fantastic actor and he brought such gravitas to the role of Cole, who was arguably the most complex character on the show. And Cole's relationship with Phoebe was captivating. They had such chemistry and I don't think any of Phoebe's other love interests even came close to matching up to Cole.
The mistake was not allowing the sisters to learn the truth about Cole and the Source's possession of him and how he was manipulated by the Seer. Between LLTQ (which is one of my all-time favourite episodes) and 4x22, Phoebe should've forgiven Cole so he could either pass over to the afterlife or move on (if they wanted to bring him back so there was always of possibility of a future return).
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