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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2018 8:18:17 GMT -5
Recently, I've been re-reading through old threads about powers and I came across a lot of discussion concerning the 20s Cousins' powers: Pyrokinesis, Cryokinesis and Molecular Inhibition/Immobilisation. Amongst us fans, these abilities remain something of a mystery given that they appear so far removed from the traditional 'Big Three' Warren powers. Such is the case that they are commonly believed to be: completely unrelated to the Warren's 'Big Three' powers and thus inherited from a different bloodline; corruptions of the cousins' 'Big Three' powers due to the practice of dark magic; stolen from other witches or otherwise immorally obtained or else advancements of the cousins' original, Warren powers.
However, a possible explanation for the cousins' powers, by charmedhybrid on another thread, is very interesting:
This really stood out to me and, when you think about it, makes perfect sense. Telekinesis is, without a doubt, the most commonly used example of a 'Mind Over Matter' power in the Charmedverse, and science fiction in general, but Melinda's description of being able 'move objects with the mind' seems, in retrospect, rather simplistic and a thoroughly 17th-century explanation. As charmedhybrid says, Pyro-KINESIS and Cryo-KINESIS are just as much movement-based KINETIC abilities as Tele-KINESIS is. Afterall, it was Stephen King who coined the term 'Pyrokinesis' in the first place and one or his most popular characters, Carrie, possessed both Telekinesis and Pyrokinesis.
So, if Melinda had been born with Pyrokinesis, she would've defined it as 'creating fire', right? We have accepted that she misinterpreted Piper's and Phoebe's powers. Phoebe could do much more than 'see the future' and Piper could never 'stop time'. And then, of course, Prue's gained a second "movement power" - Astral Projection - which support's CH theories that "powers" can manifest themselves in many different forms, dependant on individual personality or circumstances.
I wonder if this would go some way in helping explain why Phoebe gained Levitation as well - another power-puzzler. Phoebe's psychic powers are basically the other side of the same coin from Prue's mental powers. Most fans agree that Prue's and Phoebe's secondary powers would've been more suited to the opposite sister, which maybe goes to show how closely linked their powers really are. Prue's and Billie's gravity-defying levi-jumps also support this, as do Phoebe's astral premonitions.
Do you agree with these explanations, or do you think you could theorise any power into fitting any description if you try hard enough? Do you think the show could've explored these things better?
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Post by Hexenwerk on Jul 2, 2018 19:34:39 GMT -5
I agree with these explanations, and they're quite similar to the ones that I had come up with to explain the seeming discrepancy of the powers you brought up. I really do wish the show had explored this idea better, I always liked it when the screen time devoted to magic or exposition involved the sisters' powers, the Warren line, and witches in general. I do think though, as you brought up, that there is risk of explaining away a power belonging to any category, and I'm pretty sure a lot of the power development later did not have as much thought put into it as we fans try to come up with. I do think there was a lot of untapped potential regarding magical powers! In the first episode for example, Prue moved cream into coffee without actually moving the cream through space, just sort of teleporting it directly into the coffee. I think the sisters expanding on the first form of their magic that way could've been an interesting way of seeing how magic can manifest while still more obviously linked to their power.
I definitely would not be surprised if powers manifested themselves in response to circumstances, though maybe just for witches who are still coming into their power? All of the sisters had their powers bound when they were kids and then thrown into developing their magic and fighting evil without guidance, so that could explain why they conveniently developed new powers that became immediately necessary to a situation.
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Post by CharmedFaith on Jul 6, 2018 18:20:18 GMT -5
I dont know, making fire and making ice doesn't really hit me as an extension of Telekinesis.
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Post by pheebs on Jul 6, 2018 18:28:16 GMT -5
I dont know, making fire and making ice doesn't really hit me as an extension of Telekinesis. I'm with CharmedFaith, it doesn't feel like an extension of Telekinesis at all. Wouldn't that be more an Elemental Power like the four Elements? Unless I'm wrong and Telekinesis falls under one of the four? |
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Post by Hexenwerk on Jul 6, 2018 19:03:45 GMT -5
I dont know, making fire and making ice doesn't really hit me as an extension of Telekinesis. I'm with CharmedFaith, it doesn't feel like an extension of Telekinesis at all. Wouldn't that be more an Elemental Power like the four Elements? Unless I'm wrong and Telekinesis falls under one of the four? I could see the four elements (in Western tradition) as falling under telekinesis. After all, if you have control over an element like wind or earth, aren't you basically just moving that element through space? And even with, say, conjuring fire or converting water from one form to another or whatever, couldn't that be explained as moving the atoms of an object to reach the necessary speed to form those elements? |
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Jul 6, 2018 19:29:43 GMT -5
I do think those go under a different category, showing that not everyone who was a Warren got a Warren power, especially when they were fated to be reincarnated as the Charmed Ones - let them find out what it's like to be on the evil side before they're on the good side.
And, yeah, I know powers aren't supposed to be good or evil, but remembering Phoebe with her fire in S4, you can't help but wonder. And all three of the cousins were warlocks, not witches - nothing good about any of them. Perhaps like S4 Phoebe, they originally had Warren powers but when they went evil, they were exchanged for others.
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Granny Charmed
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Post by Granny Charmed on Jul 6, 2018 19:48:45 GMT -5
I do think those go under a different category, showing that not everyone who was a Warren got a Warren power, especially when they were fated to be reincarnated as the Charmed Ones - let them find out what it's like to be on the evil side before they're on the good side. And, yeah, I know powers aren't supposed to be good or evil, but remembering Phoebe with her fire in S4, you can't help but wonder. And all three of the cousins were warlocks, not witches - nothing good about any of them. Perhaps like S4 Phoebe, they originally had Warren powers but when they went evil, they were exchanged for others.Now that is something I didn't consider dear. That does make sense. |
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Post by CharmedFaith on Jul 6, 2018 21:02:38 GMT -5
I always saw the Cousins powers as just being a combination of male witches marrying into the family. Melinda started the family lineage with the 3 classic powers and like everything once you go further down, different lineages add new powers to the mix.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2018 9:03:00 GMT -5
I agree with these explanations, and they're quite similar to the ones that I had come up with to explain the seeming discrepancy of the powers you brought up. I really do wish the show had explored this idea better, I always liked it when the screen time devoted to magic or exposition involved the sisters' powers, the Warren line, and witches in general. I do think though, as you brought up, that there is risk of explaining away a power belonging to any category, and I'm pretty sure a lot of the power development later did not have as much thought put into it as we fans try to come up with. I do think there was a lot of untapped potential regarding magical powers! In the first episode for example, Prue moved cream into coffee without actually moving the cream through space, just sort of teleporting it directly into the coffee. I think the sisters expanding on the first form of their magic that way could've been an interesting way of seeing how magic can manifest while still more obviously linked to their power. I definitely would not be surprised if powers manifested themselves in response to circumstances, though maybe just for witches who are still coming into their power? All of the sisters had their powers bound when they were kids and then thrown into developing their magic and fighting evil without guidance, so that could explain why they conveniently developed new powers that became immediately necessary to a situation. They missed loads of opportunities to explain and portray more interesting power variations. They got lazy. The thing Prue did with moving the cream into the coffee - I like to imagine that she never tried that again because she did it without meaning to/by accident in the Pilot and could never quite work out how to do it again. In terms of powers developing in line with a person's circumstances/powers, I wonder if Piper's powers would've developed more passively had her personality not become more assertive in S3? I dont know, making fire and making ice doesn't really hit me as an extension of Telekinesis. I'm with CharmedFaith, it doesn't feel like an extension of Telekinesis at all. Wouldn't that be more an Elemental Power like the four Elements? Unless I'm wrong and Telekinesis falls under one of the four? Maybe 'extension' isn't the right way to think about it, but rather more that the three powers sit on a Telekinesis spectrum. Personally, I visually Pyrokinesis and Cryokinesis at opposite ends of the spectrum, with Telekinesis (the tradition depiction) somewhere in the middle. I could see the four elements (in Western tradition) as falling under telekinesis. After all, if you have control over an element like wind or earth, aren't you basically just moving that element through space? And even with, say, conjuring fire or converting water from one form to another or whatever, couldn't that be explained as moving the atoms of an object to reach the necessary speed to form those elements? It's so easy to get carried away with "Telekinesis" because it's one of those sci-fi powers that has been used in so many different ways that it can be theorised into almost anything. In my opinion, the process for creating fire would be similar to Piper's exploding powers, as you say, Hexenwerk, speeding up the necessary atoms to produce the element. Elemental powers, to me, seem more like what the Sea Hag or Storm out of X-Men can do, moving through the elements/changing the weather etc. I do think those go under a different category, showing that not everyone who was a Warren got a Warren power, especially when they were fated to be reincarnated as the Charmed Ones - let them find out what it's like to be on the evil side before they're on the good side. And, yeah, I know powers aren't supposed to be good or evil, but remembering Phoebe with her fire in S4, you can't help but wonder. And all three of the cousins were warlocks, not witches - nothing good about any of them. Perhaps like S4 Phoebe, they originally had Warren powers but when they went evil, they were exchanged for others. I never thought of that, Es. Maybe the cousins WERE all warlocks and stole the powers from good witches, or traded them. After all, it was implied that P. Russell's had some clairvoyant ability and P. Baxter obviously had a weaker form of Piper's power. Maybe they considered their Warren powers too weak to be useful, so resorted to more offensive powers, or else their family powers would not work for them properly because of their evil deeds. |
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Jul 7, 2018 9:56:09 GMT -5
I do think those go under a different category, showing that not everyone who was a Warren got a Warren power, especially when they were fated to be reincarnated as the Charmed Ones - let them find out what it's like to be on the evil side before they're on the good side. And, yeah, I know powers aren't supposed to be good or evil, but remembering Phoebe with her fire in S4, you can't help but wonder. And all three of the cousins were warlocks, not witches - nothing good about any of them. Perhaps like S4 Phoebe, they originally had Warren powers but when they went evil, they were exchanged for others. I never thought of that, Es. Maybe the cousins WERE all warlocks and stole the powers from good witches, or traded them. After all, it was implied that P. Russell's had some clairvoyant ability and P. Baxter obviously had a weaker form of Piper's power. Maybe they considered their Warren powers too weak to be useful, so resorted to more offensive powers, or else their family powers would not work for them properly because of the evil deeds. Not quite what I meant, but I like what you came up with even better than what I was thinking. It makes more sense with what happened on Charmed than what I was thinking. Good job! The fun of speculating - it can lead to *better* speculation! |
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Post by irishpendragon on Oct 20, 2018 7:05:47 GMT -5
The stasis power is not about time. It is about molecules or movement. The only ones able to freeze time were the Destiny idiots. And the only other one to manipulate time was Tempus by reversing it.
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