The Enduring Sisterhood of Charmed

[askfreebie]

 

Thoughts on this video?

[Elle Em]

Very nice. I agree that the main appeal of the show was the sisterhood over the other relationships and even magic. I liked the breakdown of their personalities and how they relate to one another throughout the show.

And though I like the idea that after Prue is gone, the sisters all become more like equals, I thought the show worked better and they functioned better as a group with more clearly defined roles: leader, middle, and rebel. If Prue had stayed and they had kept those roles for the most part, I don't think it would have been that bad. I think they still would have grown as people even if they kept their same personality traits that come from birth order.

I love looking into the relationships between the sisters, so this was fun to watch. Thanks for posting it!

[rebooted]

The sisterhood was the best part of the show. Season 1 - 4 really did focus on the relationship at the forefront a lot more.

When Piper got pregnant that did change a lot. I think it could have been different if the baby was a girl, then it could have been an extension of the sisterhood - maybe?

I do also agree that it was better when Prue was the leader, Piper was the mediator and Phoebe the free spirit. Even though I did like in Season 4 how they did become equals.

If only Shannen didn't die and they were moved to another network after Season 2 perhaps its reach could have been even more amazing.

Charmed especially between Season 1 - 4 was and is one of the best female empowering shows of all time.

[Elle Em]

Dec 11, 2018 16:19:39 GMT -5 rebooted said:

When Piper got pregnant that did change a lot. I think it could have been different if the baby was a girl, then it could have been an extension of the sisterhood - maybe?

A girl would have changed the entire tone of the show from what we got, but I hadn't thought of it as a sisterhood extension. In a way, the theme of sisterhood existed with their mother, grandmother, and female line back to Melinda Warren. Even though Grams raised the sisters and acted as their mom, the sisters grew up and became like equals to Grams in terms of maturity and magical abilities, and like equals to all the other females that came before them. 

If Piper had a girl, that girl would grow up and perhaps become like all the other women in her family, a part of this extended sisterhood. I wouldn't exclude boys from the group, but it's definitely different when it's all females versus a mix of the genders, or at least it is in the way the show was written. 

[pheebs]

I wished it was a girl Piper had and continued the female empowerment and sisterhood theme the show set out to be. That changed when it was a boy.

But sadly it was of course never to be once they went away from Connie's vision and to Kern, Alyssa and Holly's views of the sisters.

I'm sure Charmed's reach could be more amazing and bigger if it were on cable. Now if the show ended after four seasons with Prue. Maybe they do a spinoff that focuses on the three daughters of the Charmed Ones all cousins and that were on Netflix.

[rebooted]

Dec 11, 2018 19:55:37 GMT -5 pheebs said:

I wished it was a girl Piper had and continued the female empowerment and sisterhood theme the show set out to be. That changed when it was a boy.

But sadly it was of course never to be once they went away from Connie's vision and to Kern, Alyssa and Holly's views of the sisters.

I'm sure Charmed's reach could be more amazing and bigger if it were on cable. Now if the show ended after four seasons with Prue. Maybe they do a spinoff that focuses on the three daughters of the Charmed Ones all cousins and that were on Netflix.

I don't want this to sound sexist but it would have been cool if witches could only be females. 

Or if the males could only have basic witch powers like scrying, potion making and spell casting, not magical powers like their sisters would. 

There was something special in the fact that they were 3 sisters. 3 women.

And although its a cultural stereotype - witches, in popular culture are usually women - good or bad. 

Boys however, could also be healers and like what someone else said in this thread, Leo could have been a witch from another coven who dated Piper - instead of bringing up the idea of white-lighters. 

Witches should have had a range of guardian angels just like cupids, ghosts, guardians, muses, dare I say it, ferries, healers - but witches foremost were known as 'protectors of the innocent.'

However, there would never be any inbreeding (but I guess they could still procreate !)

Warlocks - were bad witches male and or female and could date witches

Demons - were other creatures that were like pests/rodents etc that couldn't reproduce with human witches.

Witches - males have passive powers, females have magical ones. Can turn into warlocks and possessed by demons.

[peytonmarie]

I think Piper having a girl would've stayed true to the original tone of Charmed. Grams, Patty, the past-life cousins, Melinda Warren, calling on their ancestors (all female names) to defeat the Source. There was a strong sense of family beyond the central sisterhood and because the focus was always on the women, a daughter really would've fit in better than a son.

That being said, my problem with Wyatt would've probably still happened with a girl. He was all-powerful. When he's a baby, unable to speak but perfectly capable of defending himself, it's hard to see/care for him as a baby or connect with him on a human level. And when he's an adult, it's still hard for me to care about characters who did nothing to earn their power.

[Esmeralda]

First, I'd love to watch the series through this person's eyes, especially the last four seasons because for me it was nothing like that - they were demon-hunters who happened to live in the same manor, not three sisters who happened to be witches. For me, it was all about Piper - she was the strongest and the leader with the most powerful power who did most of the vanquishing besides being the mother of the Twice-Blessed Brat with Alyssa and Rose as much co-stars as Dorian Gregory and less than Brian Krause.

Although you had moments of what the author mentions, there was very, very little sisterhood among the second group of three. It made sense - they'd grown up and had their own lives as sisters actually do - but when we get together, I'm still the leader, one of my sisters is still the mediator and even though she has two grown kids of her own, my other sister is and always will be my baby sister. Of course I've never lost a sister (thank God!), but I'm quite sure that wouldn't have changed this dynamic, not when we've lived that way all our lives.

I shuddered when she said Piper loved her baby sister - and for me she was right - I thought they were just showing Piper with the wrong sister - Phoebe would always be her baby sister, the way Prue would always be her older sister. For me, she was still in the middle - just stuck in a role where she didn't fit, that as leader, while Paige remained the most independent of the three, still the Only Child and Phoebe was still all about Phoebe, still the Baby, but for me, no longer the loveable baby.

I also don't think Paige hero-worshipped Piper - she hero-worshipped Prue, whose shoes she didn't think she could ever fill, and because most episodes were all about Piper and her family, we didn't get to see Phoebe and Paige as co-conspirators as much as I wish we had.

I think that the three were forced into playing Oldest, Middle and Baby because Kern didn't understand that a death doesn't change those roles, so I was glad when they went right back to being themselves - "I want a normal life" Piper, "It's all about me" Phoebe and Ditzy Valley Girl Paige - by Season Five. The difference for me is except for very, very few moments, they no longer felt like sisters.

Of course that just made those few moments all the more special, but it's why I'll always prefer the Prue-seasons over the Paige-ones. Not due to Prue vs. Paige but due to sisters who happened to be witches vs demon-hunters (since that's when they got together...) who happened to live in the same house. It's why I'll always wish that either they made Paige older than Prue or had Phoebe die rather than Prue. That way the roles for the remaining sisters would've remained the same even as they continued to grow into better people - something the second set never did.


As for the current discussion, something to remember - I'm not sure how much control Connie actually had in Season One (remembering that Kern was always the showrunner), but thee was a male witch with an active power in Season One - Max. I think we got stuck with Wyatt as a male more in order to shock viewers and what was then bad ratings for Charmed (it went up in Season Six - I hate admitting my least-favorite season probably saved Charmed - and of course I wish it hadn't - but facts are facts...), what I will always count as Charmed's Ultimate Jump the Shark moment. What was totally wrong and against everything Charmed stood for was having this male baby be more powerful than the most powerful witches ever born, which also set up a different set of TWO sisters (the Jenkinses) to be more powerful than the Charmed Ones. The first set were THE Charmed Ones. The second set, like the rip-off set, is simply A set of Charmed Ones.

I also would've preferred seeing Prudence Melinda (as Piper would've named Wyatt if he was the girl they were expecting), but not if she had been the Twice-Blessed Brat. If she had one Warren power and her shield that would've been more than enough for me, just like I think Paige should've gotten one Warren power that worked just like Prue's and one whitelighter power, since she was just the daughter of a whitelighter and not a whitelighter herself - one of Kern's worst mistakes.

These differences is also what for me prevented the endurance of the sisterhood which I saw die with Prue's death and never totally come back except for those few precious moments here and there.

[Sasha]

Hate to admit S6 saved the show in ratings, even if it was the season that totally almost stopped me watching for good. I guess some just see the show differently.

I wish I could watch the show through the eyes of the fan in this video. But I can't for many of the reasons stated above.

[peytonmarie]

Dec 13, 2018 5:57:03 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

I also don't think Paige hero-worshipped Piper - she hero-worshipped Prue

All I want to say is "Preach!" to literally all your points here. But especially these two.

I always cringe at the notion of Paige being the "baby sister." She's a grown woman! She's lived her entire life as an only child and as a result, is independent as hell. I've never seen a reason why she would suddenly transform into the "baby" of a family she's only just discovered. She might be the baby witch but that doesn't last long.

I think the problem with the second set is that their reason to bond is the demon fighting. Sure, the original three weren't super best buds at the start of S1 but there was a life-long relationship there to provide a foundation. Paige was brought into the fold as a witch first and foremost, not a sister. I think that's why it loses the "sisters who are also witches" vibe.

It's a nice way to phrase it, saying they became equals. But sharing leadership... I can't recall Phoebe being all that hands-on with the Charmed business. She was "all about Phoebe," as Es said. Paige got really into it but that was more for herself than "leading the Charmed Ones." She kept going off on her own. And of course, Piper was more focused on her own family with Leo. (Not that that's wrong.) In her heart, she wasn't interested in being Charmed.

[peytonmarie]

Dec 13, 2018 6:25:01 GMT -5 Sasha said:

Hate to admit S6 saved the show in ratings, even if it was the season that totally almost stopped me watching for good. I guess some just see the show differently.

I wish I could watch the show through the eyes of the fan in this video. But I can't for many of the reasons stated above.

I always got the impression it was Chris who "saved" the show in that sense. S6 was airing or just finished when I first saw the show and judging by the fanfiction, people loved him.

That's one thing that surprised me when joining this Cafe. I always thought I was the odd one out for not liking S6 but it seems to be, in general, the least popular season.

[summerreading]

Dec 13, 2018 12:09:43 GMT -5 peytonmarie said:

Dec 13, 2018 5:57:03 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

I also don't think Paige hero-worshipped Piper - she hero-worshipped Prue

All I want to say is "Preach!" to literally all your points here. But especially these two.

I always cringe at the notion of Paige being the "baby sister." She's a grown woman! She's lived her entire life as an only child and as a result, is independent as hell. I've never seen a reason why she would suddenly transform into the "baby" of a family she's only just discovered. She might be the baby witch but that doesn't last long.

I think the problem with the second set is that their reason to bond is the demon fighting. Sure, the original three weren't super best buds at the start of S1 but there was a life-long relationship there to provide a foundation. Paige was brought into the fold as a witch first and foremost, not a sister. I think that's why it loses the "sisters who are also witches" vibe.

It's a nice way to phrase it, saying they became equals. But sharing leadership... I can't recall Phoebe being all that hands-on with the Charmed business. She was "all about Phoebe," as Es said. Paige got really into it but that was more for herself than "leading the Charmed Ones." She kept going off on her own. And of course, Piper was more focused on her own family with Leo. (Not that that's wrong.) In her heart, she wasn't interested in being Charmed.

Preach it you two! 

Part of why they should have taken the deal to give up their powers in Witch Way Now. But I'll never believe the Angel of Destiny. I've seen many theories about all of that here. Can't find the threads.

But Piper complaing about her normal life even after she and her sisters decided to remain Charmed Ones. Sometimes you can't help but get annoyed at them, especially Piper. But it can be stressful. That I get and such.

I just wished the sisters didn't resort to the all time lows in S6. That always make me hate them the most.

[Melinda Halliwell]

Yes, I believe it was Chris who saved season six Peytonmarie.

As to yours and Es's posts I agree with both of them. And though I didn't like the second set of Charmed Ones as well as the first I did like how Paige still cared about innocents sometimes at least.

I must admit when I see some season 5-8 eps I do miss the days of old and sometimes think what episodes would've been like with the original set then.

[summerreading]

I often think the same about how episodes in S5-S8 might play out with the original Charmed Ones.

Something a fanfic can no doubt do.

[Sasha]

Dec 13, 2018 12:16:37 GMT -5 peytonmarie said:

Dec 13, 2018 6:25:01 GMT -5 Sasha said:

Hate to admit S6 saved the show in ratings, even if it was the season that totally almost stopped me watching for good. I guess some just see the show differently.

I wish I could watch the show through the eyes of the fan in this video. But I can't for many of the reasons stated above.

I always got the impression it was Chris who "saved" the show in that sense. S6 was airing or just finished when I first saw the show and judging by the fanfiction, people loved him.

That's one thing that surprised me when joining this Cafe. I always thought I was the odd one out for not liking S6 but it seems to be, in general, the least popular season.

I'm sure the young teenage fans went crazy over him, as he was a younger character, it might have attracted that crowd. As is typical since the target audience for The WB was 13-35, or people just like the idea of having witches who were boys, which is perfectly okay, some really did love the Wyatt/Chris relationship and that always finds its way into fanfictions and next-generation type storie.

You are not alone, one thing I love about the Cafe. Everyone has different opinions, and we all come together and it is nice to see that everyone watches the show differently. As someone mentioned a while back, we all come from different backgrounds and generations. We have fans in their 20s, 30s, 40s, and the over 60s with Es and Granny Charmed. So it is fun to see everyone watching the show for different reasons. 

[askfreebie]

Dec 13, 2018 14:40:41 GMT -5 summerreading said:

I often think the same about how episodes in S5-S8 might play out with the original Charmed Ones.

Something a fanfic can no doubt do.

They’d still suck because they girls characters would’ve been destroyed by Brad Kern by that point. It’s sad but true.

[prudencehalliwell]

Dec 14, 2018 7:48:35 GMT -5 askfreebie said:

Dec 13, 2018 14:40:41 GMT -5 summerreading said:

I often think the same about how episodes in S5-S8 might play out with the original Charmed Ones.

Something a fanfic can no doubt do.

They’d still suck because they girls characters would’ve been destroyed by Brad Kern by that point. It’s sad but true.

Exactly right. As Summer said, something a fanfiction story can no doubt do better. 

It's sad, but the truth. Because as a Prue fan, I often feel happy she died, so Brad Kern couldn't ruin my favorite character more and make me hate her. Especially with what he did with Piper as the older sister, I'm sure Prue would be just as bad, if not worse. 

Because the characters were based on Connie and her sisters. Once she left, Well they no longer had her vision anymore and they were no longer based on her story anymore. Not to mention Holly and Alyssa being producers, and turning Piper and Phoebe into idealized versions of themselves. 

[pheebs]

Dec 12, 2018 6:27:15 GMT -5 rebooted said:

Dec 11, 2018 19:55:37 GMT -5 pheebs said:

I wished it was a girl Piper had and continued the female empowerment and sisterhood theme the show set out to be. That changed when it was a boy.

But sadly it was of course never to be once they went away from Connie's vision and to Kern, Alyssa and Holly's views of the sisters.

I'm sure Charmed's reach could be more amazing and bigger if it were on cable. Now if the show ended after four seasons with Prue. Maybe they do a spinoff that focuses on the three daughters of the Charmed Ones all cousins and that were on Netflix.

I don't want this to sound sexist but it would have been cool if witches could only be females. 

Or if the males could only have basic witch powers like scrying, potion making and spell casting, not magical powers like their sisters would. 

There was something special in the fact that they were 3 sisters. 3 women.

And although its a cultural stereotype - witches, in popular culture are usually women - good or bad. 

Boys however, could also be healers and like what someone else said in this thread, Leo could have been a witch from another coven who dated Piper - instead of bringing up the idea of white-lighters. 

Witches should have had a range of guardian angels just like cupids, ghosts, guardians, muses, dare I say it, ferries, healers - but witches foremost were known as 'protectors of the innocent.'

However, there would never be any inbreeding (but I guess they could still procreate !)

Warlocks - were bad witches male and or female and could date witches

Demons - were other creatures that were like pests/rodents etc that couldn't reproduce with human witches.

Witches - males have passive powers, females have magical ones. Can turn into warlocks and possessed by demons.

Not at all. The magic was in sisterhood and female empowerment.

I like these. Be nice if Classic Charmed had added more female demons and had them as a Demoness. 

Even letting the Source be female could have been fun. Hecate maybe. Was the Goddess of Magic in Greek Mythology. Maybe she was similar to the comics arc like Peyton suggested. 

[Aaeiyn]

I wanted to respond to this comment:

Oct 31, 2022 5:30:06 GMT -5 rebooted said:

Dec 16, 2021 7:55:52 GMT -5 Aaeiyn said:

I will defend the "less sisterly" aspect, to a degree. It makes sense, for the Paige Era, to (maybe) not be as "cuddly" (especially directed at Paige), due to Paige being their half-sister and coming into their life, as an adult. That was displayed really well, in S5 (IMO). You see Piper & Phoebe being "cuddly" still, but it's not so much being "cuddly" with Paige. There's some "cuddly" moments with Paige, but they're mostly "one on one" sessions, rather than as a group.

After S5, however, they became less "cuddly" which is fine because they should be in their 30s, by now. How many 30-ish year olds do you know, that are still "cuddly", as they were, when they were in their young 20s and/or kids? Doesn't mean you're not sisters nor don't love them, you just..."grow out of it", I feel, so it made sense, for the show to be..."not so cuddly", as the series continued forward.

EDIT: I don't even think I "cuddled" my own sisters, as often as Charmed displayed it LOL I'm just not a "cuddly" person, but that doesn't make me any less of a sister...

I still think that Phoebe and Piper could have been more cuddley. Also with the furniture in the palour how could you not be cuddly lol.

In a more appropriate thread. That being said, a little revival of an old thread talking about their sisterhood seems to be appropriate.

Anyway, so I did notice Piper & Phoebe being more "cuddly" with each other than with Paige, in S5. But, OFC, as time/the series goes on, they became less "cuddly". I will say there's still some "sisterly" scenes, even in later seasons, but they're just not "cuddly". For example, in S7E4 "Charrrmed!", when Piper & Phoebe are trying to steal the golden chalice, and Phoebe receives a call from Leslie, Piper (in a totally sisterly fashion) began picking on Phoebe about it and even called out Phoebe for denying that she likes Leslie. OFC, this is seen prior in S7E2 "The Bare Witch Project". This seems appropriate for these two characters post-Prue's death. As Piper would be able to push Phoebe's buttons and know this about Phoebe over Paige, but I digress.

To have Paige feel included in the sisterhood, despite Phoebe not really trusting Brody, Phoebe was still supportive of Paige and helping her get ready for the date, in S7E10 "Witchness Protection". These kinds of moments scream "sisterly", for me than any amount of cuddling they show/display. I like the deeper connections/conversations they hold than just them cuddling with each other, all the time.

What I did like in S1E17 "That 70s Episode" was the small bicker between Prue & Piper about who stole the doll or whatever. That's such a cute sisterly moment. But, I really don't recall much sisterly moments, in the Prue era that wasn't about cuddling. Perhaps, when both Piper & Phoebe called out Prue, in S1E16 "Which Prue is it, Anyway?" in that they're her sisters and there to help and not just to protect. Other than "cuddly" moments, I find more meaningful sisterhood, in the Paige era than the Prue era.

Or, I just don't find cuddling to be a form of sisterhood bonding LOL